No NCL cruises out of USA yet? Am I missing something?

[BermudaBound2014]

26 minutes ago, RumRunner2021 said:

So Kinky Boots is the make or break for you?  Interesting...

I didn’t read anything close into mianmikes reply.

Without speaking for mianmike, I think the point was that a “well planned and executed” start up should include kinky boots (or a similar production), especially since ncl has had months longer to prepare.

[BirdTravels]

3 hours ago, mianmike said:

Since we are on the first sailing I hope you're right.  A smart business decision is to offer a quality product.  Given NCL chose to delay cruising and be the last cruise line to resume operations customers are right to expect a superior execution compared to the other cruise lines.  So far I'm not seeing superior execution, but it's far too early to tell.  I would expect Kinky Boots (or a similar quality substitution) to be bookable at embarkation.  If not, strike one.  

So,,, we were on Royal's first North American sailing and my expectation for that cruise was that we were were all lab rats in a never-ending series of experiments. And that was true. Some experiments worked very well. Some didn't at all. And Royal's first cruises were only 20%-25% loaded, NCL is going to try to start with 60% which is ambitious. But Royal applied lessons learned from every cruise they have operated since to make future cruises better. I think that I have mentioned that we were photographed several times to build the training material for future cruises (what to do, and what not to do). And I have been watching subsequent cruises where they have fixed a lot of the things that didn't work well on our cruise. 

 

My expectations for the first few Encore cruises are exactly the same... NCL will be testing to see what works and what does not work. It will start with Check-in.... since even after NCL's $50M renovation, the Bell Street terminal is still a train wreck on a good day. Now it will have to support health screenings, COVID testing, and check-in... in a socially distant manner. 

 

We were on the inaugural voyage of the Breakaway, Getaway, Bliss, and Encore. In each case, it was the first time that the ship was loaded to 120%+ capacity. None of those voyages were flawless. None of them had superior execution. The entertainment on most was screwed up where they ended up cancelling all of the reservations and re-did it onboard (like the upcoming Encore cruises). Inaugural Bliss out of Seattle was the first time they had a big ship, 130% loaded return to Bell Street terminal and disembarkation was a disaster (we stood in the gangway for over 45 minutes while port workers were trying to get bags off the ship 4 hours later than expected). 

 

Anyone on a first or second cruise who expects superior execution will be greatly disappointed and should cancel now. Those are totally unrealistic expectations for a first cruise after a 16 month shutdown. It's like customers who are on the last cruise before a dry dock, or first cruise after a major dry dock expecting that a ship will be totally "normal". We were on the first cruise of the Epic out of dry dock from Southampton to Barcelona and had one of our plates in Cagney's vibrate off the table as they did full speed starts and emergency stops with their new engines during dinner service. New furnishings were added to the room each day (it was like Christmas getting presents daily,, finally got some pillows for the sofa). And they were finally able to get chunks of grout out of our sink by the end of the cruise. 

 

This is a restart. There will be problems. There will be non-superior execution. And there will be people disappointed because some thing just could not be done (e.g., Kinky Boots). 

[BirdTravels]

2 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I didn’t read anything close into mianmikes reply.

Without speaking for mianmike, I think the point was that a “well planned and executed” start up should include kinky boots (or a similar production), especially since ncl has had months longer to prepare.

The decision to have Kinky Boots was announced on June 2, 2021 when the Encore was named to replace the Bliss. And it was not enough time to cast, rehearse, wardrobe (biggest amount of time to custom make dozens of boots for principals and understudies) and install the show for the first voyages of the Encore. 

[BermudaBound2014]

1 minute ago, BirdTravels said:

The decision to have Kinky Boots was announced on June 2, 2021 when the Encore was named to replace the Bliss. And it was not enough time to cast, rehearse, wardrobe (biggest amount of time to custom make dozens of boots for principals and understudies) and install the show for the first voyages of the Encore. 

What happened to “well planned and executed start up?” 

[Old & Retired]

28 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

What happened to “well planned and executed start up?” 

It never was except in certain people's fantasy world.  You know, the people that proclaim NCL can do no wrong.

[mianmike]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I didn’t read anything close into mianmike's reply.

Without speaking for mianmike, I think the point was that a “well planned and executed” start up should include kinky boots (or a similar production), especially since ncl has had months longer to prepare.

 

You encapsulated my thoughts exactly.  I've never seen Kinky Boots so it's definitely not make or break for me.  Quality entertainment is what I have come to expect from NCL and RCCL.  

 

NCL had options as to when they would resume sailing and which ship would be the first to resume N. American cruises.  Given that NCL's competitors were able to provide production shows months earlier and as part of a “well planned and executed” resumption of cruising it is reasonable to assume the production shows would be available on NCL's ship.  

 

We don't know that NCL won't have a “well planned and executed” cruise and there will be superior execution as compared to NCL's competition's earlier restarts.  On or about Aug 7th we will know more.  In my gut I feel like NCL didn't wait months for nothing and there will be either Kinky Boots or a suitable replacement.

[mianmike]

2 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

So,,, we were on Royal's first North American sailing and my expectation for that cruise was that we were were all lab rats in a never-ending series of experiments. And that was true. Some experiments worked very well. Some didn't at all. And Royal's first cruises were only 20%-25% loaded, NCL is going to try to start with 60% which is ambitious. But Royal applied lessons learned from every cruise they have operated since to make future cruises better. I think that I have mentioned that we were photographed several times to build the training material for future cruises (what to do, and what not to do). And I have been watching subsequent cruises where they have fixed a lot of the things that didn't work well on our cruise. 

 

My expectations for the first few Encore cruises are exactly the same... NCL will be testing to see what works and what does not work. It will start with Check-in.... since even after NCL's $50M renovation, the Bell Street terminal is still a train wreck on a good day. Now it will have to support health screenings, COVID testing, and check-in... in a socially distant manner. 

 

We were on the inaugural voyage of the Breakaway, Getaway, Bliss, and Encore. In each case, it was the first time that the ship was loaded to 120%+ capacity. None of those voyages were flawless. None of them had superior execution. The entertainment on most was screwed up where they ended up cancelling all of the reservations and re-did it onboard (like the upcoming Encore cruises). Inaugural Bliss out of Seattle was the first time they had a big ship, 130% loaded return to Bell Street terminal and disembarkation was a disaster (we stood in the gangway for over 45 minutes while port workers were trying to get bags off the ship 4 hours later than expected). 

 

Anyone on a first or second cruise who expects superior execution will be greatly disappointed and should cancel now. Those are totally unrealistic expectations for a first cruise after a 16 month shutdown. It's like customers who are on the last cruise before a dry dock, or first cruise after a major dry dock expecting that a ship will be totally "normal". We were on the first cruise of the Epic out of dry dock from Southampton to Barcelona and had one of our plates in Cagney's vibrate off the table as they did full speed starts and emergency stops with their new engines during dinner service. New furnishings were added to the room each day (it was like Christmas getting presents daily,, finally got some pillows for the sofa). And they were finally able to get chunks of grout out of our sink by the end of the cruise. 

 

This is a restart. There will be problems. There will be non-superior execution. And there will be people disappointed because some thing just could not be done (e.g., Kinky Boots). 

 

You're talking in circles and thus you are undermining your argument that NCL was right to have waited months and will have a "well planned and executed" restart.  

 

Selfishly I hope they actually have a well planned and executed cruise otherwise no need to have waited months for the first U.S. post-covid-shutdown NCL cruise.  As of right now it's not looking super promising, but communication has never been NCL's strong suit and the cruise could very easily be well planned and executed.  We will see soon enough!   

[coffeebean]

16 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 Or Galveston, or New Orleans, or st Martin, or Barbados’s, or <insert many choices>…….other cruise lines have been sailing for months. There is a reason NCL isn’t yet sailing, I have my obvious hypothesis and it has nothing to do with keeping passengers safe. NCL does not care more about its passengers than CcL or RCL. Time will tell. 

The bottom line, I believe, with these cruise lines is to operate their business with the least possibility of having a Covid outbreak on board. You seem to feel safety for their passengers is not their main concern and I tend to believe that too. Having said that, preventing a Covid outbreak on board is, in effect, keeping their passengers safe so there is that.

 

NCL has the right mind set not allowing anyone on board who has not been vaccinated. That is the safest way to go and there is no doubt about that. Hopefully, by the time NCL sails, their promise of no masking on board the ship anywhere and no social distancing on board will still be able to be upheld.

[BermudaBound2014]

3 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

The bottom line, I believe, with these cruise lines is to operate their business with the least possibility of having a Covid outbreak on board. You seem to feel safety for their passengers is not their main concern and I tend to believe that too. Having said that, preventing a Covid outbreak on board is, in effect, keeping their passengers safe so there is that.

 

NCL has the right mind set not allowing anyone on board who has not been vaccinated. That is the safest way to go and there is no doubt about that. Hopefully, by the time NCL sails, their promise of no masking on board the ship anywhere and no social distancing on board will still be able to be upheld.

 

It's not that I don't believe NCL wants to keep their passengers safe. The best way to turn a profit is to have zero covid and NCL needs to turn a profit. So we agree there. I tend to believe there are financial factors at play that the public is not privy to at this time. I also believe that NCL is in the weakest of the big 3 to survive long term in the same capacity as they were pre-covid. I don't believe that NCL's motivation for the slow start is because they want to be safer than the competition. We don't know what type of deals are being made behind the scenes. What I do know is that I'm making a nice profit shorting NCL stock (betting against the company) and that's rarely a good sign. Quarter two financials will be released August 6th and that should give us a better indication of just how long NCL can stay afloat.

[coffeebean]

4 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

It's not that I don't believe NCL wants to keep their passengers safe. The best way to turn a profit is to have zero covid and NCL needs to turn a profit. So we agree there. I tend to believe there are financial factors at play that the public is not privy to at this time. I also believe that NCL is in the weakest of the big 3 to survive long term in the same capacity as they were pre-covid. I don't believe that NCL's motivation for the slow start is because they want to be safer than the competition. We don't know what type of deals are being made behind the scenes. What I do know is that I'm making a nice profit shorting NCL stock (betting against the company) and that's rarely a good sign. Quarter two financials will be released August 6th and that should give us a better indication of just how long NCL can stay afloat.

Kudos for you but very worrisome for NCL. This cruise line is high on my list of favorites and at this point, given their decision to sail with 100% vaccinated guests, they top my list. Royal is now second and they may fall even lower if they continue on the path they have chosen with unlimited un-vaxxed on board their ships out of Florida.

Edited July 26, 2021 by coffeebean

[CroozFanatic]

10 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

The decision to have Kinky Boots was announced on June 2, 2021 when the Encore was named to replace the Bliss.

 

This. Shows NCL was late to believe there would be a US restart and also shows their ships were in the wrong position when they decided to move forward.

[PTC DAWG]

On 7/23/2021 at 5:29 PM, mscdivina2016 said:

The roadblock is the FL governor.  NCL wants vax only cruises, FL won't let them ask for it.

Steve

Celebrity is asking passengers if they are vaccinated.  They now have 2 ships sailing out of Port Everglades.  

Edited July 26, 2021 by PTC DAWG

[MNcruisingcouple]

9 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

Celebrity is asking passengers if they are vaccinated.  They now have 2 ships sailing out of Port Everglades.  

 

But Celebrity isn't requiring passengers to be vaccinated.  That's the difference.

[PTC DAWG]

10 minutes ago, MNcruisingcouple said:

 

But Celebrity isn't requiring passengers to be vaccinated.  That's the difference.

They are sailing at 95%+ vaccinated, a couple of the Edge sailings have been at 100% adults...if someone boarding will cause it to be below a total of 95%, they are denied boarding.  Seems to be working great....I am sailing next Sunday, I expect no issues.  

 

Hopefully, NCL will get things figured out...I have enjoyed various sailings on their line.  

Edited July 26, 2021 by PTC DAWG

[Sthrngary]

19 minutes ago, CroozFanatic said:

 

This. Shows NCL was late to believe there would be a US restart and also shows their ships were in the wrong position when they decided to move forward.

NCL was not late to the game at all.  By the way, I do not have skin in the game.  My cruise is at the end of November.  The issue was NCL knew that the only way they could be the highest potential of safe for there crew and guest was fully vaccinated cruises, PERIOD.  They knew as ever other cruise brand did, that an outbreak would be the end.  

 

NCL has a brand new terminal in Miami that has not been really used yet.  A HUGE investment for them and the state. The Florida Government create the law about asking if a cruiser has a vaccine.  As I know in my great state of Alabama, the honor system does not work.  In addition, as you will see on other cruise brands, folks on cruise that are mixed cruises where you have vaccine and non-vaccine guest.  The non-vaccine guests are not very happy at their restrictions onboard.  They feel like second class citizens.  They are also not happy with having to pay for tests onboard.  

 

If I was NCL, I would stick to my guns until the increase in covid has subsided.  Again, don't get me wrong.  I have no real skin in the game.  Cruise well.

[BermudaBound2014]

26 minutes ago, MNcruisingcouple said:

 

But Celebrity isn't requiring passengers to be vaccinated.  That's the difference.

 

So the big question is... "why is NCL is requiring ALL passengers to be vaccinated?" What are we missing? What's the end game? 

 

7 minutes ago, Sthrngary said:

The issue was NCL knew that the only way they could be the highest potential of safe for there crew and guest was fully vaccinated cruises, PERIOD.  

 

Respectfully disagree. I don't believe NCL cares more about it's passengers (or sailing safely) than RCL or CCL.  Not to mention, if it TRULY was about fully vaccinated cruises 'period'... I believe they would be sailing from Galveston, New Orleans, etc.

 

I do bleive there is a reason NCL is the only one fighting this out in court, but I don't believe it has much to do with sailing safer. If NCL wanted to be sailing 100% vaccinated, they would be, Period.

Edited July 26, 2021 by BermudaBound2014

[Sthrngary]

4 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

So the big question is... "why is NCL is requiring ALL passengers to be vaccinated?" What are we missing? What's the end game? 

 

 

Respectfully disagree. I don't believe NCL cares more about it's passengers (or sailing safely) than RCL or CCL.  Not to mention, if it TRULY was about fully vaccinated cruises 'period'... I believe they would be sailing from Galveston, New Orleans, etc.

 

I do bleive there is a reason NCL is the only one fighting this out in court, but I don't believe it has much to do with sailing safer.

I did not explain myself, in no way do I think the other brands are less safe or are doing anything wrong.  NOBODY not any brand wants an issue.  I just personally, that is the key personally like NCL approach better.  Thank you for the way you responded, it was professional and clear.  We will start a trend here, LOL

Edited July 26, 2021 by Sthrngary

[aubreyc1988]

On 7/23/2021 at 7:16 PM, BirdTravels said:

 

NCL established August 7 as their return to service date months ago. Their leaders have stayed with that date (although they have changed their home port). Well planned and executed. 

People seem to have forgotten the dreadful wave that india had and the struggle to get enough crew vaccinated in time. They want to do it the safest way possible, and that takes time. 

 

And to be honest, they aren't too far behind on other cruiselines, in the long term of things, a few weeks won't matter so much when you consider total amount of revenue lost. 

[BermudaBound2014]

18 minutes ago, aubreyc1988 said:

People seem to have forgotten the dreadful wave that india had and the struggle to get enough crew vaccinated in time. They want to do it the safest way possible, and that takes time. 

 

And to be honest, they aren't too far behind on other cruiselines, in the long term of things, a few weeks won't matter so much when you consider total amount of revenue lost. 

 

There is some merit to the debate that the other cruise lines didn't make a lot of money on their first sailings, but the GEM prices are falling like a rock and they haven't hit bottom yet.

 

If there was a strong demand for 100% vaccinated cruises, why is the Gem not selling? Looks to me the August sailings are at about 20% and I expect September will be even less.

 

Inside $399

Outside: 499

Balcony $699

Club Balcony below (with all 4 perks) is $848. Sail away is $799.

 

 

On a good note, the August Encore sailings are holding quite firm. The September sailings are dropping (as expected) and the October sailings have started their slide (which I expect will drop significantly).

 

I'm not convinced NCL can alienate all the families who want to sail with children much longer. There are several reasons to explain why bookings are bleak, but it doesn't appear to me that NCL's 100% vaccination policy is drawing in a huge crowd.

[CroozFanatic]

51 minutes ago, Sthrngary said:

NCL was not late to the game at all.  By the way, I do not have skin in the game.  My cruise is at the end of November.  The issue was NCL knew that the only way they could be the highest potential of safe for there crew and guest was fully vaccinated cruises, PERIOD.  They knew as ever other cruise brand did, that an outbreak would be the end.  

 

NCL has a brand new terminal in Miami that has not been really used yet.  A HUGE investment for them and the state. The Florida Government create the law about asking if a cruiser has a vaccine.  As I know in my great state of Alabama, the honor system does not work.  In addition, as you will see on other cruise brands, folks on cruise that are mixed cruises where you have vaccine and non-vaccine guest.  The non-vaccine guests are not very happy at their restrictions onboard.  They feel like second class citizens.  They are also not happy with having to pay for tests onboard.  

 

If I was NCL, I would stick to my guns until the increase in covid has subsided.  Again, don't get me wrong.  I have no real skin in the game.  Cruise well.

 

Alaska

[PTC DAWG]

1 hour ago, Sthrngary said:In addition, as you will see on other cruise brands, folks on cruise that are mixed cruises where you have vaccine and non-vaccine guest.  The non-vaccine guests are not very happy at their restrictions onboard.  They feel like second class citizens.  They are also not happy with having to pay for tests onboard.  

 

 

These unvaccinated folks knew exactly what they were getting to, re differing protocols, testing, areas closed off to them…I have zero sympathy..

[aubreyc1988]

20 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

There is some merit to the debate that the other cruise lines didn't make a lot of money on their first sailings, but the GEM prices are falling like a rock and they haven't hit bottom yet.

 

If there was a strong demand for 100% vaccinated cruises, why is the Gem not selling? Looks to me the August sailings are at about 20% and I expect September will be even less.

 

Inside $399

Outside: 499

Balcony $699

Club Balcony below (with all 4 perks) is $848. Sail away is $799.

 

 

On a good note, the August Encore sailings are holding quite firm. The September sailings are dropping (as expected) and the October sailings have started their slide (which I expect will drop significantly).

 

I'm not convinced NCL can alienate all the families who want to sail with children much longer. There are several reasons to explain why bookings are bleak, but it doesn't appear to me that NCL's 100% vaccination policy is drawing in a huge crowd.

I feel like august/sept for Florida cruises is low season anyhow with hurricanes and such. Gem was a poor choice for a ship in Fllorida, should have put a newer ship there. Soon, kids under 12 will be able to be vaccinated so I don't consider this temporary "No young kids onboard" will last past the end of the fall cruise season

[Karaboudjan]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

So the big question is... "why is NCL is requiring ALL passengers to be vaccinated?" What are we missing? What's the end game? 

 

 

Respectfully disagree. I don't believe NCL cares more about it's passengers (or sailing safely) than RCL or CCL.  Not to mention, if it TRULY was about fully vaccinated cruises 'period'... I believe they would be sailing from Galveston, New Orleans, etc.

 

I do bleive there is a reason NCL is the only one fighting this out in court, but I don't believe it has much to do with sailing safer. If NCL wanted to be sailing 100% vaccinated, they would be, Period.

 

Evidently you have a different end game in mind than some others here, but I think the problem is that these moves make sense for more than one.  For example, what if NCL just wants to satisfy the CDC and get back to sailing with as close to a pre-covid experience as possible?  So they adopted a 100% vaccinated policy* and are willing to fight Florida to avoid having to back down on it and renege on their commitment to customers.  Maybe they cannot redeploy ships because that is prohibitively costly, disruptive or otherwise not feasible, at least in the short term.

 

*IMO it was more about satisfying the CDC than for marketing, but having gone that route for a few months before Florida enacted their law it's not so easy to back out as the other lines have demonstrated.
 

[BermudaBound2014]

3 minutes ago, aubreyc1988 said:

I feel like august/sept for Florida cruises is low season anyhow with hurricanes and such. Gem was a poor choice for a ship in Fllorida, should have put a newer ship there. Soon, kids under 12 will be able to be vaccinated so I don't consider this temporary "No young kids onboard" will last past the end of the fall cruise season

 

Last I read only 25% of adults plan to vaccinate their children. I don't see any possibility of NCL keeping kids off their ships past October 31st (when they have committed to)....maybe earlier. If I'm wrong I'll buy you a beer 🙂

[aubreyc1988]

3 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Last I read only 25% of adults plan to vaccinate their children. I don't see any possibility of NCL keeping kids off their ships past October 31st (when they have committed to)....maybe earlier. If I'm wrong I'll buy you a beer 🙂

 

All depends on delta variant in terms of keeping unvaccinated off ships. I don't doubt parents are hesitant to vaccinate their kids, but I certainly will not miss the children onboard cruise ships...so if NCL has to raise prices or something to remain vaccinated only/no unvaccinated kids on board, I'd 10/10 pay for that experience.