Old vs New locks

[ledodeck01]

is there any way to tell if a cruise will transit the old narrow portions  of the canal or will it be using only the new expanded canal opened in 2016. From a historical perspective, I am more interested in the older section where the ships are barely abled to fit and must be pulled by the mules.  This part of the canal seems to impart more of the panama canal

 experience. I have looked at the map showing both the new and old portions- I realize the the with of the ship (beam) is one factor.  Still I would like to know which portion of the canal I would be transiting before I book-or does it really matter as excursions can be booked. Thanks 

[CruiserBruce]

If you look around the board, this question is covered frequently.

 

If your ship fits in the older locks you will do the older locks...all but a small number (like under 10, probably 6 or less) that frequently do Canal cruises  fit this. You are correct, the old locks are the far more interesting reason to go.

 

If you have any doubts, look up the dimensions of your ship. The biggest it can be is 950 feet long by 106 feet wide, for going in the older locks.

 

You talk about excursions. Are you doing  a partial transit, or docking somewhere in Panama for a night?

[ledodeck01]

Thanks for that info. I have not booked yet but would prefer a full transit- have you been?

 

 

[CruiserBruce]

4 hours ago, ledodeck01 said:

Thanks for that info. I have not booked yet but would prefer a full transit- have you been?

 

 

We have been on 4 full transits, and one partial. All in the older locks. 1 transit west to east, the others east to west, the partial transit roundtrip out of Ft Lauderdale.

[BillB48]

You can count my vote for the old locks!  Certainly much more to look at and enjoy for the locks portion of your transit.  Other than which locks your ship uses, the route through the Canal is the same for all ships.  Using the beam of the ship to determine which locks will be used can be a little problematic since I have found many of the sites that provide the dimensions of ships often quote the widest measurement which can be misleading.  The widest part of the ship may be an overhang such as the navigation bridge wings and not the beam at the waterline which is the controlling figure.

 

If you have a ship or  several ships in mind, feel free to toss that name back here, I'm sure there will be one of us Canal aficionados on this board to help you determine which locks will be used.

 

Counting full and partial transits, I run out of fingers and toes!😉

[Rob-Bob]

On 8/4/2021 at 5:11 AM, BillB48 said:

You can count my vote for the old locks!  Certainly much more to look at and enjoy for the locks portion of your transit.  Other than which locks your ship uses, the route through the Canal is the same for all ships.  Using the beam of the ship to determine which locks will be used can be a little problematic since I have found many of the sites that provide the dimensions of ships often quote the widest measurement which can be misleading.  The widest part of the ship may be an overhang such as the navigation bridge wings and not the beam at the waterline which is the controlling figure.

 

If you have a ship or  several ships in mind, feel free to toss that name back here, I'm sure there will be one of us Canal aficionados on this board to help you determine which locks will be used.

 

Counting full and partial transits, I run out of fingers and toes!😉

NCL Jewel?

[Turtles06]

1 hour ago, Rob-Bob said:

NCL Jewel?

The NCL Jewel should go through the old locks. Our first transit of the Canal was on the Jewel, and it was through the old locks. Our second was on the Gem, one of the Jewel’s sister ships, and it was also through the old locks. 
 

In the event you may find it helpful, here’s my review (with photos) of our full transit on the Jewel. It was a wonderful trip.  

 

[Rob-Bob]

Thank you.  Nice review.

[BillB48]

Turtles06 has even provided pictorial evidence the NCL Jewel will almost without a doubt use the original locks😉😁.  I suppose you may notice I put a very tiny qualifier in the statement she will use the new locks... let me explain.  First of all I am not aware of any cruise  ship that was able to use the original locks be diverted to the new locks.  However having said that, there  have been times  when Canal authorities have used the new locks to transit vessels that ordinarily would have used the original locks.  I only point it out as it is a remote possibility for some unforeseen reason your ship could be sent to the new locks.  This would only be done under some rather extreme circumstances as it would no doubt disappoint a large number of the passengers on that cruise.

 

PS: I went back and found this in another post I had written about ships using the different locks...

 

Another tidbit I found fascinating and really doesn't surprise me except I had never seen any official documentation of it.  First we have always have the question on Cruise Critic, "which locks will my ship use?"  The answer that is normally provided here is if it fits the Panamax Locks (original locks), that is the locks the it will use.  That still is the most accurate answer.  Many times when I have answered that question I have frequently prefaced my answer by pointing out that the original will be used unless there is some sort of anomaly that would necessitate a deviation.

 

In the Annual Report  reports there were 88 transits by Panamax vessels (vessels that fit the original locks) through the new locks for Canal "convenience".  Of these 88 transits 22 of the transits used the new locks exclusively, in other words used the new lock for the entire transit.  The remainder of the transits used a combination of Panamax Locks and Neo Locks,  For example Gatun and Cocoli  or Miraflores/Pedro Miguel and Agua Clara.

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by BillB48

[Turtles06]

7 hours ago, BillB48 said:

Turtles06 has even provided pictorial evidence the NCL Jewel will almost without a doubt use the original locks😉😁.  I suppose you may notice I put a very tiny qualifier in the statement she will use the (original) locks..

Bill, you have trained us so well that we know it’s not a complete given that a Panamax ship will use the original locks.  It’s why I said in my comment that the Jewel “should go through” those locks, not “will go through.”  😊

[Rob-Bob]

Great stuff guys.  Much appreciated.

[karma11]

RCCL'S SERENADE OF THE SEAS? 

 

[BillB48]

She will use the original  locks.

[Banditswife]

very interesting, doing our 2nd full transit in Oct.  1st time went E to W, this time W to E.  So if we used the old locks 1st time, same ship, I am assuming we will most likely use old locks again.  These full transit cruises are usually when the ships are repositioning to/from their Alaska itineraries.  

[njhorseman]

2 minutes ago, Banditswife said:

very interesting, doing our 2nd full transit in Oct.  1st time went E to W, this time W to E.  So if we used the old locks 1st time, same ship, I am assuming we will most likely use old locks again.  These full transit cruises are usually when the ships are repositioning to/from their Alaska itineraries.  

Outside of some unusual circumstances your ship will use the old locks again.

 

As an esoteric aside, you're really traveling more north to south or south to north when transiting the canal...probably most accurately northwest to southeast or vice versa . If you look at  a map of Panama  you'll see that the Pacific end of the canal is actually east of the Atlantic end and as a result the sun rises on the Pacific end of the canal before it rises on the Atlantic end.

[Banditswife]

4 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Outside of some unusual circumstances your ship will use the old locks again.

 

As an esoteric aside, you're really traveling more north to south or south to north when transiting the canal...probably most accurately northwest to southeast or vice versa . If you look at  a map of Panama  you'll see that the Pacific end of the canal is actually east of the Atlantic end and as a result the sun rises on the Pacific end of the canal before it rises on the Atlantic end.

Yes, my blunder, I was thinking of Seattle being W & Ft Lauderdale being E.  But you are correct.

[CruiserBruce]

35 minutes ago, Banditswife said:

very interesting, doing our 2nd full transit in Oct.  1st time went E to W, this time W to E.  So if we used the old locks 1st time, same ship, I am assuming we will most likely use old locks again.  These full transit cruises are usually when the ships are repositioning to/from their Alaska itineraries.  

In normal cruising times, 3 or 4 cruise lines have at least one ship doing continuous full Canal transits from October to April or May. So the typical "full transits are only repo cruises" is no longer really true.

[Banditswife]

9 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

In normal cruising times, 3 or 4 cruise lines have at least one ship doing continuous full Canal transits from October to April or May. So the typical "full transits are only repo cruises" is no longer really true.

Ok, guess I have only seen ships that were either beginning or ending their AK itineraries.  So then my question would be what cruise lines do only the canal? & where do they originate & end?

[CruiserBruce]

42 minutes ago, Banditswife said:

Ok, guess I have only seen ships that were either beginning or ending their AK itineraries.  So then my question would be what cruise lines do only the canal? & where do they originate & end?

What do you mean "only the Canal"? They all stop at other ports.

 

The common is to sail from FLL or MIA to LA or San Diego, or reverse. Typically 14 or 15 days. To be legal under PVSA they have to stop in Colombia or the ABC islands.

 

HAL, NCL, Princess did them regularly pre Covid. I think Celebrity and RCI did a number, but not sure they committed a ship to continuous Canal voyages.

[BillB48]

27 minutes ago, Banditswife said:

Ok, guess I have only seen ships that were either beginning or ending their AK itineraries.  So then my question would be what cruise lines do only the canal? & where do they originate & end?

 

Over the past few years Princess seemed to have the most full transits over the Canal "season".  you might want to look at HAL and Celebrity as well, however Celebrity seemed to drop multiple transits recently IIRC.  Princess has also offered a partial transit cruise from LA entering the Canal from the Pacific side traveling all the way to, but not through Gatun Locks on the Atlantic side.  The following day they would retrace their route back out the Canal and back to LA.  It was about a 19 day r/t cruise.

 

It would pay to look at all the mainstream cruise lines as well since they throw in a single Canal roundtrip at some point during the Canal season.  Carnival, NCL, Royal Caribbean etc.  Royal Carib had a series of 4 complete transits during the year before everything shut down.  NCL has some complete transits scheduled this season using Ft. Amador as the start/end port. 

 

Generally these full transit cruises will start/end in LA or San Diego or start/end in Miami or Ft Lauderdale

[CruiserBruce]

@BillB48, pretty sure in 2018 or 2019, HAL had the most full transits.  It was very close, but HAL had the most.

[Essiesmom]

Maybe for the big girls, but there are times when Windstar has had one of their ships going back and forth from Puerto Caldera to Colon weekly.  EM

[spotte]

Will the Carnival Pride do the old or new locks?

[njhorseman]

30 minutes ago, spotte said:

Will the Carnival Pride do the old or new locks?

Old

[bonvoyaged]

Anyone know which locks the Celebrity Millennium will use? Anyone been through the Canal on Millie?  Beam is 105.6ft. Thanks