Question for the YCers who utilize their butler to a greater extent than most: How do you turn around a poor start?

[Toofarfromthesea]

On 8/6/2021 at 8:35 PM, morpheusofthesea said:

Never knew I needed anything until the butler suggested I needed it and asked if he could get it for me. The best butlers come up with the best suggestions. For example, I walked out of my cabin to go to guest services (not knowing that the concierge could straighten things out) and the butler asked where I was going. I said to guest services, he said there may be a long line, let me escort you to the head of the line. Or we wanted a front row seat in the theatre and the children are faster at running to save all these seats. The butler gets in before the doors open and saves our seats for us. If one starts off on the 'wrong foot' just a word to the 'head butler' gets one a better result.

This sounds fishy.  Even if you didn't know you should go to the YC Concierge rather than Guest Services the butler would have,

[kernow]

1 hour ago, no1talks said:

Hmmm.

Do you suppose YCers who gush about butlers are, in actuality, gushing about the juniors? Are juniors in the same livery as regular butlers? If so, it is easy to understand the mixing of job titles. How many staff are on a buttling team? One butler and one or two stewards/juniors per 𝓍 cabins?

And what is this I read about head butlers? Is the head butler one of the room butlers or rather a supervisory post, without cabins assigned?

Additionally, do concierges have anything to say about the performance of butlers? Or, rather, does the hierarchy go: steward/junior, butler, head butler, YC director?

Thank you, in advance, for any light you can shed.

There is a clear distinction between the butler and their assistant. The junior butler is dressed more like a room steward whereas the butler is in a traditional black topcoat. When we met our butler she also introduced 'her assistant Francis' who she clearly kept an eye on, he was also very good. The situation seemed like a waiter and an assistant waiter. We never heard mention of the head butler.

The YC director is an officer who is in overall charge of YC, they were usually around the concierge desk.

[zekekelso]

Speaking only for me, this thread makes me even less likely to ever book the Yacht Club. Happy cruising to you Yacht Club people, but count me out. 

[Shippy]

20 minutes ago, zekekelso said:

Speaking only for me, this thread makes me even less likely to ever book the Yacht Club. Happy cruising to you Yacht Club people, but count me out. 

   everyone has their priorities ! Sounds like yours is the butler service.

That is our least. The YC is my most favorite part of cruising now.

[morpheusofthesea]

2 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

This sounds fishy.  Even if you didn't know you should go to the YC Concierge rather than Guest Services the butler would have,

Did not explain my 'issue' with the butler. YC director ultimately solved the 'issue'.

[morpheusofthesea]

2 hours ago, kernow said:

There is a clear distinction between the butler and their assistant. The junior butler is dressed more like a room steward whereas the butler is in a traditional black topcoat. When we met our butler she also introduced 'her assistant Francis' who she clearly kept an eye on, he was also very good. The situation seemed like a waiter and an assistant waiter. We never heard mention of the head butler.

Yes, the last time we were on board Seaside the butler introduce our cabin steward as his assistant butler. The following cruise on board the assistant butler was a full fledged butler and our butler was made 'Head' butler and was distinguished by the YC director as now being 'management' (whatever that means). Another interesting 'tidbit' of information regarding waiters and assistant waiters and how to tell them apart in the YC restaurant. The color of their neck ties, one wears black the other gold (I forgot which is which).

Edited August 9, 2021 by morpheusofthesea
punctuation

[morpheusofthesea]

To answer the last part of this topic "How to turn around a poor start?" We witnessed a fellow passenger have a problem with his 'assigned' butler. The problem was directed to the Head Butler and the guest was assigned a different butler.

[no1talks]

1 minute ago, morpheusofthesea said:

To answer the last part of this topic "How to turn around a poor start?" We witnessed a fellow passenger have a problem with his 'assigned' butler. The problem was directed to the Head Butler and the guest was assigned a different butler.

It's good to know that butler substitutions are a viable option for management.

[Toofarfromthesea]

7 hours ago, morpheusofthesea said:

Did not explain my 'issue' with the butler. YC director ultimately solved the 'issue'.

Yeah, I figured something like that.  I wonder if butlers sometimes do some unnecessary 'escort to the front of the line' stuff in an effort to stimulate tips.

IAC, pax in the Yacht Club never have to go to Guest Services because that is what the YC Concierge is for.

[Toofarfromthesea]

7 hours ago, morpheusofthesea said:

To answer the last part of this topic "How to turn around a poor start?" We witnessed a fellow passenger have a problem with his 'assigned' butler. The problem was directed to the Head Butler and the guest was assigned a different butler.

It has never happened to me, but I think if it did I'd have a word with the butler first to give him a chance to do better.  It has to be a major black mark for the butler if a complaint is serious enough to up the chain.  But i'd only do that once.  If that didn't fix it my next step would be a chat with the Concierge.

[hamrag]

10 hours ago, Shippy said:

   everyone has their priorities ! Sounds like yours is the butler service.

That is our least. The YC is my most favorite part of cruising now.

Absolutely, us too. We just do not see the reason to utilise the butler, but when you do they are there....everywhere around the YC enclave! The 'assigned' butler is for your cabin only, alongside the assistant butler. All other butler 'tasks' are pooled, and they work as a team under the direction of one Head Butler.

 

On our three YC cruises, we never had one single issue with butling but we tend to get on and enjoy our cruise to the full. We do not require to be 'recognised' and fussed over. If we require any non standard butling, we ask and always receive. Most guests are satisfied with that, but we do recognise on every cruise there are those who want to be seen....and heard!

[uktog]

It would have been really useful if the structure of duties had been explained to us as every line is different. 
We never even knew (saw, heard or were advised of) the assistant. We did however get a lot of help from the concierge (our accounts were so wrong and the accounts department had refused to effectively process the refund of a prepaid excursion they cancelled, eventually the last night we got the refund not back to the card used for payment as it should have been but as cash). 

We too get on with things and were not looking to be paraded by a butler we just wanted accurate information so we could get on with things. It was appalling that at one point in the lounge we asked our butler a question and as he was answering (with his usual no) an adjacent guest butted in and said that’s not true. The butler then changed his story but what a taste that left. 
Now we are home and read about YC benefits we never had, service he never offered, misinformation we had it makes us very cross. Trouble is we did not know to escalate because we did not know that his no responses/misinformation were wrong. And it probably has left us with a lasting but wrong impression of MSC. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by uktog

[hamrag]

On 8/10/2021 at 10:29 AM, uktog said:

It would have been really useful if the structure of duties had been explained to us as every line is different... 

...Now we are home and read about YC benefits we never had, service he never offered, misinformation we had it makes us very cross. Trouble is we did not know to escalate because we did not know that his no responses/misinformation were wrong. And it probably has left us with a lasting but wrong impression of MSC. 

 

It's always much better to do your research pre-cruise, rather than post cruise! 🙄

[rkacruiser]

On 8/10/2021 at 5:29 AM, uktog said:

It would have been really useful if the structure of duties had been explained to us as every line is different. 

 

I did my online research and asking questions on this forum before my cruise on Meraviglia.  Lots of good information that was helpful.  Yet, there was still more to learn.  Agree with the above poster that a definite definition of duties would be helpful for those of us who experience such a cruise staff member for the first time.  However, I have decided that by the nature of the Butler's position, it is an evolving one.  "Ask what one wants them to do."  The answer will be one of two.  

 

1 hour ago, hamrag said:

 

It's always much better to do your research pre-cruise, rather than post cruise! 🙄

 

See above!  I did and I am certain that I missed some "opportunities" for better use of my Butler.  

On 8/9/2021 at 4:27 PM, kernow said:

There is a clear distinction between the butler and their assistant. The junior butler is dressed more like a room steward whereas the butler is in a traditional black topcoat.

 

On 8/9/2021 at 4:27 PM, kernow said:

The situation seemed like a waiter and an assistant waiter. We never heard mention of the head butler.

The YC director is an officer who is in overall charge of YC, 

 

 

Your description of the difference between the two job descriptions?  Yes.  Head Butler?  I became aware of her the last 2-3 days of my Meraviglia cruise.  She was totally in charge of the YC facility on Ocean Cay and was very visible.  YC Director?  Did not become aware of him/her until I returned home and continued posting on this Forum.  Maybe, one of the Concierges was such a person.  One of the two seemed to have more "clout" than the other one did.  

[kernow]

6 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

 

 

Your description of the difference between the two job descriptions?  Yes.  Head Butler?  I became aware of her the last 2-3 days of my Meraviglia cruise.  She was totally in charge of the YC facility on Ocean Cay and was very visible.  YC Director?  Did not become aware of him/her until I returned home and continued posting on this Forum.  Maybe, one of the Concierges was such a person.  One of the two seemed to have more "clout" than the other one did.  

Does the head butler have their own guests or is it just a management position? 

The YC director was usually around the desk, she was an officer and had stripes on her arm (we joked with her about it😀).

 

 

[uktog]

9 hours ago, hamrag said:

 

It's always much better to do your research pre-cruise, rather than post cruise! 🙄

No need for a side swipe like that!  
 

Of course it’s better to do research but it’s also better if the cruiseline is a clear communicator 
Yes, this was a last minute booking so time to research was limited and I did as much research as I could (asking here, talking directly with people I’ve cruised with who use MSC whose views I trusted, my travel agent etc). In the week available I did as much as I could, but 

a.  MSCs website is very short of information 

b.  I was having to concentrate on more fundamentals like getting an embarkation time earlier than 3 hours before departure and find car parking given that MSC advised us to park in Liverpool when we were embarking in Scotland 

c.  I was more concerned about how they handled food allergies (badly as it turned out for us) than the reporting structure and responsibilities of employees 

 

At least I know about these things for the future and so also hopefully do others who are new to the process because the cruiseline doesn’t help, that’s very clear. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by uktog

[hamrag]

1 hour ago, kernow said:

Does the head butler have their own guests or is it just a management position? 

The YC director was usually around the desk, she was an officer and had stripes on her arm (we joked with her about it😀).

 

 

It's a definite management position, but they muck in and do their bit when they can. Head Butler has no assigned guests i.e. cabins. On our YC cruises they certainly kept the butlers on their toes, which is required at times, but mutual respect was clear....guess that is because the Head Butler assists with the dirty work, when required.

[hamrag]

2 hours ago, uktog said:

....At least I know about these things for the future and so also hopefully do others who are new to the process because the cruiseline doesn’t help, that’s very clear. 

 

If you are confident enough, and ready to fly mid-October, there is an incredibly priced repositioning cruise on Seaview. Also, it is a 5+15% discount for Voyager Club members with 50euro pp OBC if Silver status or above.

 

Sailing date is 9th October, from Kiel for 11 nights to Barcelona....there is a 12 night ending Marseille and 13 night ending Genoa variant of the same cruise. For the 11 nights YC Deluxe Suite pricing is £1500 odds, therefore reducing to £1200ish with VC discount. There is an online website which gives an additional 12% discount making it < £1100pp.....a true bargain!

 

Kiel is a real pain to get to, but it's certainly doable...especially at such pricing. It is a guarantee YC Deluxe cabin, which looks to me like the cabins are shifting quickly at these prices and discount.

[uktog]

Thanks

Confident certainly (we hope to have Greece next month and have flown twice already in the UK) however we’ve family commitments that ground us October to probably mid December depending on actual dates. 

[morpheusofthesea]

On 8/10/2021 at 5:29 AM, uktog said:

It would have been really useful if the structure of duties had been explained to us as every line is different. 

Maybe one reason why butler duties are not explained or listed, is because of the number of assigned butlers to cabins. We got so much attention from our butler that by the 3rd day of the cruise I questioned him."Does every cabin have an assigned butler like you in the YC?" " No, he said I have 13 cabins to attend to." There was no way he could have butlered for each and every cabin the same. Our first cruise on the Divina we had to be guided the first evening to Le Muse for dinner, but after that we were fine on our own. There was one couple who must have enjoyed the escort because they where escorted every evening.