Vaccine proof question

[unclegrandpa]

I am thinking of taking two one week Mediterranean cruises with NCL. I am confused about how they validate the vaccine cards. As far as I can tell it is impossible for them to do. I got vaccinated in Utah. A lot of people here receive a blank card where you put your name yourself. They just put a little sticker with the vaccine name on it for each dose and hand write the hospital name. There is no record locator on or any way to validate it. It does not look official. There is no national record for vaccines according to the CDC website.

 

I can log in to the provider app and to an app called Docket where I can download my local vaccine history. Only the patient is allowed to view that. I am not sure if that would work better instead of the vaccine card.

 

I would also need to fly from one port in Spain to another one in Greece to transfer from the first cruise to the next one. I presume I would need to take a Covid test in Spain before I am allowed to board the plane to Greece. How far in advance do you need to do that and what is the best way of doing it? Also what do people have to do before they are allowed to board their plane back to the US? Can they take a Covid test on the ship and show it at the airport, or what is the best way of taking those tests once you are there?

Edited August 12, 2021 by unclegrandpa

[Laszlo]

Its kind of a joke, I got J&J done in March of this year at a firehouse in Philadelphia. I was on an email list which I saved. I filled out a some paperwork at the firehouse, paper and pen, nothing on a computer. I don't think my name is in any kind of data base.

 

 

Millions of adults vaccinated against Covid-19 have little to prove it beyond a paper card they received at inoculation sites. The U.S. has no central database for immunizations. States maintain an incomplete patchwork of records

Edited August 12, 2021 by Laszlo

[hallux]

The cards, however they're filled out, have been widely regarded as proof.  However - with the high incidence of students acquiring 'fake' cards in order to register for college, we may see a crackdown.

 

There is a record SOMEWHERE.  Vaccines in New York are being recorded by more than just the place that administered it, and are verified when registering for the Excelsior Pass (New York's 'COVID Passport').

[bbnmom]

I know they asked for my ins provider when I registered and made an appointment with a drive thru station to be vaccinated. I am pretty sure my insurance now has a record of my vaccination because if you have insurance they did to my understanding pay something toward the vaccine. That doesn't mean ships would have access to that info though.

 

[Daniel A]

53 minutes ago, hallux said:

Vaccines in New York are being recorded by more than just the place that administered it, and are verified when registering for the Excelsior Pass (New York's 'COVID Passport').

Only some vaccinations are being recorded by New York State in the Excelsior Pass.  All of the following people are excluded by New York:

Those New York residents who were vaccinated outside NY 

U.S. Military Personnel

Veterans vaccinated at any VA facility

People from under served communities who got vaccinated by FEMA

 

It is certainly an inequitable system that all these people end up paying for from their taxes...

[DCGuy64]

FWIW, my status is available to me electronically through several means:

1. CDC VeriSafe tool online (shows where/when I was vaccinated)

2. The MyChart app, shows where/when I was vaccinated and that I received a negative result on 8/3/2021.

3. The CVS app (also associated with MyChart) above.

 

I glanced at the Stars and Stripes website (for those who might be unfamiliar, it's for US servicemembers) and they are reporting that the paper CDC card is being recognized as de facto equivalent to Covid passes being issued in Europe. I was specifically looking for the requirements for Italy but it seems to be accepted all over Europe.

https://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2021-08-04/cdc-card-equivelent-to-italys-green-pass-2441902.html

[BermudaBound2014]

The cat is out of the bag. College kids are buying fake cards with bitcoin in droves. ABC terms it a 'cottage industry'.

 

 

[Karaboudjan]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

The cat is out of the bag. College kids are buying fake cards with bitcoin in droves. ABC terms it a 'cottage industry'.

 

 

Yes, but how many will actually upload an image of it while acknowledging that they know it is a crime potentially punishable by jail time?  I'm sure that schools will verify at least a sampling of the documents, so it's not an idle threat.

[hallux]

9 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

I'm sure that schools will verify at least a sampling of the documents, so it's not an idle threat.

I can only imagine how it'll look on their transcript to have been caught lying about such information.

[Daniel A]

35 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

Yes, but how many will actually upload an image of it while acknowledging that they know it is a crime potentially punishable by jail time?  I'm sure that schools will verify at least a sampling of the documents, so it's not an idle threat.

Kids have been buying counterfeit driver licenses with altered birth dates for decades...  Being a crime hasn't deterred that at all.

[AwesomO]

Yeah, there will be a lot of fake cards out there, especially considering that these are much easier to fake than drivee IDs are. I saw an article somewhere about the person selling them believing they are saving lives. I'm sure they will crack down on it if it becomes an issue, but right now they're focusing their resources on actually vaccinating people. Or trying to anyway.

[TFLG]

3 hours ago, hallux said:

The cards, however they're filled out, have been widely regarded as proof.  However - with the high incidence of students acquiring 'fake' cards in order to register for college, we may see a crackdown.

 

 

 

Using a fake card to board a cruise ship seems like a ridiculous thing to do.  Unfortunately there are a more than a few ridiculous people around that will probably do it.  I'm pretty certain if the cruise line found out they would drop your butt at the next port and ban you for life.  And if you contracted Covid, I seriously doubt they would pick up the tab to get you home.

[Laszlo]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

Kids have been buying counterfeit driver licenses with altered birth dates for decades...  Being a crime hasn't deterred that at all.

In the early and mid 80's I paid my rent with money I made selling fake ID's in college LOL

[BermudaBound2014]

I just did a quick google search for how to get a fake vaccine card and this image popped up...... it seems to me that the cottage industry was short lived if anyone can print a blank from online for free.  What a joke.

 

[Sea Hag]

31 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I just did a quick google search for how to get a fake vaccine card and this image popped up...... it seems to me that the cottage industry was short lived if anyone can print a blank from online for free.  What a joke.

 

Does the google search show the back of the card as well? The CDC cards are two-sided. Seems to me that showing up with a single-sided card would be a dead giveaway.

[BermudaBound2014]

6 minutes ago, Sea Hag said:

Does the google search show the back of the card as well? The CDC cards are two-sided. Seems to me that showing up with a single-sided card would be a dead giveaway.

 

Yes, it has the back also. You would need a printer to double side print, but that would be easy enough.

[Karaboudjan]

26 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Yes, it has the back also. You would need a printer to double side print, but that would be easy enough.

It sounds easy in theory, but out of an abundance of reasons I think the number of people actually trying this will be extremely small.

[BermudaBound2014]

18 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

It sounds easy in theory, but out of an abundance of reasons I think the number of people actually trying this will be extremely small.

 

I respectfully disagree when it comes to entrance to college. I have ties to University of Michigan and parents are actually encouraging their kids to use these over getting the vaccine.  I do think fewer people will use this to board a cruise ship, but I do believe it will happen and likely more frequently than either one of us want to consider.

[Karaboudjan]

18 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I respectfully disagree when it comes to entrance to college. I have ties to University of Michigan and parents are actually encouraging their kids to use these over getting the vaccine.  I do think fewer people will use this to board a cruise ship, but I do believe it will happen and likely more frequently than either one of us want to consider.

I was not referring to college.  Most of my reasons apply more to cruise passengers.

[ChiefMateJRK]

2 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I just did a quick google search for how to get a fake vaccine card and this image popped up...... it seems to me that the cottage industry was short lived if anyone can print a blank from online for free.  What a joke.

 

A person would also need to acquire the proper weight cardstock and have a printer that could handle it.  I'm sure it could be done, but it would be a bit more difficult than just printing on plain paper.

[BermudaBound2014]

22 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

A person would also need to acquire the proper weight cardstock and have a printer that could handle it.  I'm sure it could be done, but it would be a bit more difficult than just printing on plain paper.

On a scale of 1 to 10 (with ten being difficult) it would be a 2 or 3. Easy peasy. Even easier for someone who is motivated:)
 

[njhorseman]

26 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

A person would also need to acquire the proper weight cardstock and have a printer that could handle it.  I'm sure it could be done, but it would be a bit more difficult than just printing on plain paper.

You can buy cardstock paper in various weights from Staples, Office Depot,  Amazon.com,...pretty much anywhere that you can buy paper. Exact weight isn't going to matter...a clerk checking the card isn't going to know the difference.

Edited August 12, 2021 by njhorseman

[njhorseman]

4 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

On a scale of 1 to 10 (with ten being difficult) it would be a 2 or 3. Easy peasy. Even easier for someone who is motivated:)
 

I think a 2 is overrating the difficulty. 😄

[TFLG]

Yea pretty easy to print one if you wanted.  But the risks are significant if found out.  The cruise line would almost certainly kick you off the ship and it is actually a crime.  The Federal crime isn't faking the card its using the logo/seal.  Some states are also passing laws making it a crime and some of the potential fines are HUGE.  I think in NJ is up to 10 years in jail and up to $150k in fines.  I'm sure Florida will start selling cards in gumball machines for 25c if they lose the next court case.

 

The unauthorized use of an official government agency's seal (such as HHS or the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)) is a crime, and may be punishable under Title 18 United States Code, Section 1017, and other applicable laws.

[BermudaBound2014]

26 minutes ago, TFLG said:

Yea pretty easy to print one if you wanted.  But the risks are significant if found out.  The cruise line would almost certainly kick you off the ship and it is actually a crime.  The Federal crime isn't faking the card its using the logo/seal.  Some states are also passing laws making it a crime and some of the potential fines are HUGE.  I think in NJ is up to 10 years in jail and up to $150k in fines.  I'm sure Florida will start selling cards in gumball machines for 25c if they lose the next court case.

 

The unauthorized use of an official government agency's seal (such as HHS or the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)) is a crime, and may be punishable under Title 18 United States Code, Section 1017, and other applicable laws.

 

 

Granted still stiff, but I believe it’s 10 years in jail and $10,000 (not $150,000)- but I exaggerate too sometimes so no worries 🙂

 

https://connecticut.news12.com/bill-would-make-possessing-manufacturing-counterfeit-vaccine-cards-illegal-in-new-jersey