Encore back to yellow: CDC started investigation?

[ziggyuk]

What is going on with NCL? MSC restarted on 8 months ago in Europe and allowed unvaccinated, there have only been a handful of cases.

 

NCL restart in the US with what should be much stricter requirements and this happens.

 

There has to be a reason, are people not following protocols?

[BermudaBound2014]

3 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

What is going on with NCL? MSC restarted on 8 months ago in Europe and allowed unvaccinated, there have only been a handful of cases.

 

NCL restart in the US with what should be much stricter requirements and this happens.

 

There has to be a reason, are people not following protocols?

 

It appears MSC has covid onboard their first sailing from the USA too. There isn't anything that NCL is doing wrong. I suspect that cruises sailing from Europe are just better at keeping information contained. There isn't a policy/protocol invented (or imaginary) that can keep covid off a ship. 

 

[home-mom]

On 8/31/2021 at 3:03 PM, KruzPrincess said:

Are people wearing masks onboard? More now than before? 

We received another letter strongly recommending people wear their masks indoor and social distance on Friday at sea. 

[skywonder]

On 9/1/2021 at 2:44 PM, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I don't know why anyone would give you crap. I am very grateful to you for sharing information. Perhaps those who felt that NCL policy of  100% vaccinated would keep covid off the ship were faced with the hard reality that 100% vaccinated doesn't appear to be any more, or less, effective than the 95/5% policy and that realization made them uncomfortable? Who knows, but your experience is important for anyone thinking their sailing will remain covid free just because it's 100% vaccinated. It won't. It can't. Those folks should be thanking you.

Bingo! I have been saying this since day one.

[skywonder]

On 9/3/2021 at 7:21 AM, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

It appears MSC has covid onboard their first sailing from the USA too. There isn't anything that NCL is doing wrong. I suspect that cruises sailing from Europe are just better at keeping information contained. There isn't a policy/protocol invented (or imaginary) that can keep covid off a ship. 

 

Exactly no matter how many people get the vaccine we are not going to stop it from creeping on a ship or anywhere else for that matter, I wish it would but sadly it will not. Time for us to focus on the treatments we have and finding even better treatments, plus a healthy lifestyle.

Edited September 4, 2021 by skywonder

[ziggyuk]

3 hours ago, skywonder said:

Exactly no matter how many people get the vaccine we are not going to stop it from creeping on a ship or anywhere else for that matter, I wish it would but sadly it will not. Time for us to focus on the treatments we have and finding even better treatments, plus a healthy lifestyle.

 

We all know that but it does not answer the question.

Why are ships sailing with US passengers getting higher numbers of covid cases, as said other ships have sailed in Europe for 8 months with non vaccinated passengers with only a handful of cases.

 

Now ships are sailing from the US and US passengers are sailing in Europe the cases are rising, it's not a reporting issue.

 

Are protocols getting lax as time passes or are passengers not following the protocols, or something else.

[ChiefMateJRK]

4 minutes ago, ziggyuk said:

Now ships are sailing from the US and US passengers are sailing in Europe the cases are rising, it's not a reporting issue.

How do we know that it is not just different reporting systems?

[ziggyuk]

10 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

How do we know that it is not just different reporting systems?

 

Why should it be? Are you suggesting cases were being kept secret until recently?

The testing has been there, for example,  I was tested by the cruise line before boarding and again half way through my 7 day cruise, the cases would have been detected.

We had to wear masks at all times inside and outside unless seated.

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by ziggyuk

[BermudaBound2014]

35 minutes ago, ziggyuk said:

 

 Are you suggesting cases were being kept secret until recently?

 

That is what I am suggesting. I suspect keeping information out of MSM might be easier in the EU. However; "Secret" may imply malice, and that's not what I'm suggesting. But I am suggesting that cruise lines have strong motivation to keep their covid numbers vague. We only need to look at the Carnival Vista and Carnival Panorama to realize that the exact numbers are not being released. We know the Encore has covid onboard, but those numbers haven't hit the news either. Don't get me wrong,  I'm fine with MSM staying away, but I do not believe that cruising from the USA is anymore 'dangerous' than cruising from the EU. 

[nitesiren]

On 9/2/2021 at 9:31 AM, zerooveride said:

Both me, my wife and another cruiser on our FB group received the same Exposure Alert. The only time we were in the same place on that date was when we were at the Free Cruise Bingo, but were on different sides of the theater. That means that someone in the theater subsequently tested positive.

 

Also, at least 3 people (with tests pending for a couple that have symptoms) have come back positive post-cruise for COVID.

 

Then on 08/31/2021 NCL informed currently on-board passengers that a number of crew were positive for COVID. The general rule of thumb I have read is that the incubation period is about 5-8 days (general being the key word, not absolute). That period would put the crew contracting it from our cruise, not the current one. 

 

COVID was onboard our sailing and I believe it is probably a lot more than what people on here and Facebook are saying as those two groups are a minority in relation to the number of people sailing. 

 

The one thing that irks me a bit is if NCL knows that crew members on 08/31 were positive, why haven't they done contract tracing with the passengers that disembarked on the 28th? If the crew tested positive 08/31 then the passengers that came into contact with them on our sailing were most likely exposed. 

 

I did expect a higher risk of getting COVID in such a congregate setting. I'll be honest, I didn't expect so many foreign travelers on our cruise to be honest and especially not one from a place that is a COVID hotspot (to say the least).

 

To be truthful, NCL has dropped the ball by NOT being transparent to us while on the cruise. If there was a positive case early on in the cruise (which there most likely was) they should have told us so that if we wished we could have taken additional precautions. 

You are right. NCL should have done contact tracing on the ship. We also go the letter and we’re on deck 9 mid-ship and we saw our cabin steward 2 days and then he “disappeared”. This made us think that he may have contracted covid and thus exposed us to it. We pretty much wore our masks throughout the entire cruise except in our cabin and while drinking and eating and having been in the spa.

[Cruiser021421]

7 minutes ago, nitesiren said:

You are right. NCL should have done contact tracing on the ship. We also go the letter and we’re on deck 9 mid-ship and we saw our cabin steward 2 days and then he “disappeared”. This made us think that he may have contracted covid and thus exposed us to it. We pretty much wore our masks throughout the entire cruise except in our cabin and while drinking and eating and having been in the spa.

That or he could have been a close contact of one of the crew with covid and was quarantined also.

[nitesiren]

10 minutes ago, Cruiser021421 said:

That or he could have been a close contact of one of the crew with covid and was quarantined also.

Good thing is we weren’t contacted, just only received the letter. Can’t say for sure about anyone else. We did hear that a couple was traveling with another couple and that 2nd couple tested positive when we all did our initial testing. 

[BermudaBound2014]

11 minutes ago, nitesiren said:

.......2nd couple tested positive when we all did our initial testing. 

 

Just a FYI if interested: Here is a news story about a family of 4 that is still quarantined in a small hotel room in Seattle. The mom tested positive at initial testing for your sailing. 

 

https://www.wlky.com/article/fully-vaccinated-louisville-family-quarantined-after-pre-cruise-positive-covid-19-test/37478627#

[ChiefMateJRK]

1 hour ago, ziggyuk said:

Why should it be? Are you suggesting cases were being kept secret until recently?

Did my post say anything to suggest that I was saying that "cases were being kept secret?"

 

ChiefmateJRK:  "the sky isn't quite as blue today."

Nervous internet poster:  "why are you so worried about climate change?"

[ChiefMateJRK]

11 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Just a FYI if interested: Here is a news story about a family of 4 that is still quarantined in a small hotel room in Seattle. The mom tested positive at initial testing for your sailing. 

 

https://www.wlky.com/article/fully-vaccinated-louisville-family-quarantined-after-pre-cruise-positive-covid-19-test/37478627#

Thank you for that!!  It's good to hear what really happens.  No Covid police.  No $50,000 medivac private jets.  Just go stay in a hotel room until you all test negative or ten days (btw: unless I missed it,  nowhere in the article did it say that it was a "small" hotel room, it may have been a very nice suite).

[BermudaBound2014]

2 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Thank you for that!!  It's good to hear what really happens.  No Covid police.  No $50,000 medivac private jets.  Just go stay in a hotel room until you all test negative or ten days (btw: unless I missed it,  nowhere in the article did it say that it was a "small" hotel room, it may have been a very nice suite).

Apparently you didn't watch the video. 🙂

[ChiefMateJRK]

6 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

Apparently you didn't watch the video. 🙂

Guilty!! 😜

 

ETA: okay, I watched the video.  The room shown does not appear to be huge, but I'm guessing that they were in two rooms.  For anybody who has lived in a dorm, or even sailed inside stateroom, the room appears quite spacious.  😎

Edited September 4, 2021 by ChiefMateJRK

[HaveWeMetYet]

90000 people at the college football stadium in Michigan. Same numbers elsewhere.

No vaccine requirements.

No masks.

Elbow to elbow.

Screaming constantly at the game.

Cruise ship - you have to have vaccine, masks, test to get on, test to fly home, and one twentieth the people. 

LOL.

[ziggyuk]

32 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Did my post say anything to suggest that I was saying that "cases were being kept secret?"

 

ChiefmateJRK:  "the sky isn't quite as blue today."

Nervous internet poster:  "why are you so worried about climate change?"

 

Glad we agree that there are no reporting issues 🥴

[ChiefMateJRK]

5 minutes ago, ziggyuk said:

 

Glad we agree that there are no reporting issues 🥴

A lot of the "reporting" has little meaning.  Take, for example, our CDC's color coding system.  Somebody sneezes and the ship goes to yellow or orange (I'm not sure anybody even understands what those each mean).  So, the ships are almost always not green and not red.  IOW, the world ain't perfect but it ain't falling apart either.  Well duh!!  What would we do without them?  I look at a cruise ship tracking website and I see dozens of cruise ships sailing around the US, many more in other parts of the world.  I check the "news" headlines, and I see no mention of cruise ship crises.  I see hurricane crises.  Immigration crises.  Climate crises.  Economic crises.  Etc.  Either the cruise industry is doing fine or they're paying off big media to suppress "the truth."  The cruise lines all have various protocols, etc., but whatever they are collectively doing seems to be working about as well as anything in our post-Covid crisis world.  If I waited for Government reporting to tell me everything was great (choose whichever government you wish), I might as well just stop living life now.

 

If the worst thing I have to worry about is spending my holiday in a nice hotel room in a coastal city versus a nice cabin on a cruise ship, than God is good no matter how it turns out. 😎 Thanksgiving will soon be upon us and it may be time for us all to think more about what we have to be truly thankful for.

[hallux]

21 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

(I'm not sure anybody even understands what those each mean).

Maybe Tony can shed some light on the subject?  He brings up the CDC page at 1:30 into the video...

 

[KruzPrincess]

7 hours ago, home-mom said:

We received another letter strongly recommending people wear their masks indoor and social distance on Friday at sea. 

Thanks for responding. 

[zerooveride]

7 hours ago, home-mom said:

We received another letter strongly recommending people wear their masks indoor and social distance on Friday at sea. 

Would you mind posting a picture of the letter?

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

How do we know that it is not just different reporting systems?

 

3 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

 

Why should it be? Are you suggesting cases were being kept secret until recently?

The testing has been there, for example,  I was tested by the cruise line before boarding and again half way through my 7 day cruise, the cases would have been detected.

We had to wear masks at all times inside and outside unless seated.

 

 

 

While certainly not an expert on EU law, the documents I see from the EU ECDC is a "guidance" document, which I have researched into a mud hole that says some guidance documents have the force of law, and some don't.  So, I'm not sure that all of the requirements are mandated, as the US CDC has done.  From what I see in the document, it says cruise operators should (which is not a legal requirement) do this, or it is recommended, not shall (which has the force of a legal requirement), or it is required.  Second, the EU relies on each Member State to enforce the ShipSan program, and to enable their own public health codes, so there is no central reporting agency in the EU like the US CDC, so cases on European cruises may be reported to various countries, depending on when/where the case develops, and no one is putting the dots together.  No evil intention involved, just no central analysis of data.

[DAVLIB007]

On 9/2/2021 at 7:36 AM, BermudaBound2014 said:

@alohayall thank you for taking the time to share your interpretation and provide the chart. We have discussed both here at length many times. I did a poor job of explaining that my confusion isn't with the color chart itself, my issue with the CDC color coding system has always been trying to understand rational for the failure to to clearly distinguish between Covid and CLI. Without that, the information is vague and left to interpretation. 

 

Regardless, in this case we are absolutely certain Covid is onboard the Encore due to the contract tracing notification kindly supplied to us by  @zerooveride

 

 

I suspect that for many people this was expected. Perhaps not so quickly.

 I think it is rational to conclude that Covid has been onboard the Encore within days/weeks of it's first sailing. Yet, based on very heated conversations which have taken place here on CC over the last 5 months, there is a vocal group that was certain NCL's 100% vaccination policy would keep Covid off the ship. It won't. It can't. 

 

In addition, the Gem went orange on it's first sailing. Of the big three, the CDC is tracing 24 cruises sailing with passengers. Of the 24 cruises, only one ship remains green (Serenade of the seas). Given how contagious Delta is, I have concluded that the majority of these reports are, in fact, due to covid. Others will  conclude differently. 

 

Based on current evidence, my belief is that covid will likely be on board most (all) sailings for the foreseeable future. In terms of exposure, I don't believe cruising is significantly safer than a visit to the local Walgreens to obtain the test needed to board. If you are someone who actively seeks to avoid being exposed to covid, cruising might not be your best choice for vacation at this time.

 

With that said, I'd cruise tomorrow and not give it a second thought.

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/cruise-ship-color-status.html

 

 

so true . it will be onboard most ships for sure getting a negative test before you board a airline dosent  take rocket science.