How Will Holland America Survive ?

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

I am taking a land tour in October. I have been notified I must bring my vaccination card as some hotels and restaurants may require proof of vaccination. I suspect at some point a negative Covid test may be required as well. It isn't just cruise lines that we are jumping through hoops for. 

[mcrcruiser]

3 hours ago, SJSULIBRARIAN said:

I am taking a land tour in October. I have been notified I must bring my vaccination card as some hotels and restaurants may require proof of vaccination. I suspect at some point a negative Covid test may be required as well. It isn't just cruise lines that we are jumping through hoops for. 

We do a lot of land trips & we have yet to encounter  Hilton ,Marriott ot Choice hotel chains requiring  negative covid testing  & to  our knowledge it is not some thing they are even thinking of  implementing . hotels are very different than closed in cruise ships at sea  Balancing safety with  profitable business is a fine juggling act . One bad mistake & the act id finished  for good 

[mcrcruiser]

5 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Your question has nothing to do with whether HAL will survive!  

 

The answer to the cruise industry's ability to survive depends upon a decision each of us must make.  Which is more important?  Responsibility for the greater good of our society?  Or one's one's belief in what "freedom" means?  

 

Those that want to be tested--wherever--prior to their cruise:  they will sail.

'

Those of us who aren't going to jump through the hoops required to sail and then jump some more when we are on the ship or in the ports:  we are not going to sail.  

From a marketing perspective ,HAL  has always catered to a older  demographic  .This group's age   has a lot to do with wanting to have to complete the challenges facing them to cruise .  Much easier to do trips land based  . Additionally , there is not only more  options on land than on a ship  but  many more restaurants available on land as well as entertainment venues 

People who post on cruise critic are but a very small fraction of was the cruising public . Thus , one must look at  the demographics   before  setting standards  that may or may not agree with that demographic group .  

[mcrcruiser]

We have our March 13 ,2022  cruise & seeing that HAL made it   required as of  this year for  having a negative covid test within 48 hours of boarding  .Thus ,if that is carried into 2021 ,we will definitely cancel the cruise  & not cruise until that part is either cancelled or they rest at the pier . I will call HAL today about this issue &  if they can't tell me I will cancel   .Imo this whole testing procedure is far too restrictive & stressful 

[Caribbean Chris]

1 hour ago, mcrcruiser said:

We have our March 13 ,2022  cruise & seeing that HAL made it   required as of  this year for  having a negative covid test within 48 hours of boarding  .Thus ,if that is carried into 2021 ,we will definitely cancel the cruise  & not cruise until that part is either cancelled or they rest at the pier . I will call HAL today about this issue &  if they can't tell me I will cancel   .Imo this whole testing procedure is far too restrictive & stressful 

No one at HAL can or will tell you - today when you call - what their policy will be in March 22, so it sounds like you will be canceling.

[mcrcruiser]

2 hours ago, Caribbean Chris said:

No one at HAL can or will tell you - today when you call - what their policy will be in March 22, so it sounds like you will be canceling.

We do know that in fact the cruise was cancelled & we booked a Jan 31 ,2023 Hawaii cruise in it's place which is a 18 night cruise   .with this pandemic man made virus there truly is no telling where this will be even in 2023  . We can only hope for a end to  it  ,God willing 

Edited September 21, 2021 by mcrcruiser

[cruisemom42]

13 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

We do a lot of land trips & we have yet to encounter  Hilton ,Marriott ot Choice hotel chains requiring  negative covid testing  & to  our knowledge it is not some thing they are even thinking of  implementing . hotels are very different than closed in cruise ships at sea  Balancing safety with  profitable business is a fine juggling act . One bad mistake & the act id finished  for good 

 

You keep equating cruises with hotel stays in terms of vacations. In my mind they are not at all the same. I take a cruise to travel and see places, and I know that I am not alone. Not all cruisers can so easily replace cruising with an alternative.

 

Also, many of us have specific places and itineraries in mind. At this stage in my life I am not interested in parking myself at an AI or resort hotel or time stay for a week, and I hate car trips -- I have commuted 1.5 hours to work for 20 years and I am sick of driving. I've done a lot of travel in the US and frankly there aren't many more places that I am keen to visit (or re-visit), at least not yet.

 

So I think it behooves us all to realize that whatever OUR OWN individual wishes and wants are with regard to travel, you're going to get a dozen other wishes and wants from asking 12 more people. 

 

 

[SueMo]

36 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

Also, many of us have specific places and itineraries in mind. At this stage in my life I am not interested in parking myself at an AI or resort hotel or time stay for a week, and I hate car trips -- I have commuted 1.5 hours to work for 20 years and I am sick of driving. I've done a lot of travel in the US and frankly there aren't many more places that I am keen to visit (or re-visit), at least not yet.

 

So I think it behooves us all to realize that whatever OUR OWN individual wishes and wants are with regard to travel, you're going to get a dozen other wishes and wants from asking 12 more people. 

 

 

 

I agree with you in that I don’t want to stay at an AI or resort hotel for a week.  Sitting on a beach every day may appeal to some, but I like to see and explore new places, and cruising makes that very easy to do.  I recently returned from a 11 day self-drive tour in Alaska.  I had to rent a car, reserve 7 different hotels/B&B’s, excursions in each stop, dinner reservations, etc. and it was a huge task!  On a cruise, I only need to worry about excursions.

 

As for HAL, besides the unique itineraries, it fulfills a niche for senior cruisers that other lines are trying to get away from.  When our kids were young we did a number of CCL, NCL and RCCL cruises, but now I prefer cruises with fewer children.  More recently we sailed almost exclusively with Celebrity, but they are now trying to draw in a younger clientele.  The piped-in music in the lounges are electronic versions of new artists and their shows don’t thrill me as a 60-something.   I switched to HAL a couple years ago and found I really enjoy their music in BB Kings and Rolling Stone lounges.  And it’s affordable!  So I do believe they offer something different from other cruise lines for people like me.

[vwlmember]

On 9/19/2021 at 11:52 PM, zgscl said:

I think it really depends where you live. We had absolutely no trouble getting a test through my primary care doctor with results back in 24 hours and now with the emed/Binax Now ag home kit it is even easier. $150 for a pack of 6 which you can do from the comfort of your own home or any other place.

 

I am definitely of the mind that I want a negative result in hand before leaving home. It is one thing to test positive and need to cancel the trip, but arriving at the pier only to test positive and then need to quarantine in a far away city? No thank you.

This is great until you have a cruise that leaves port two days after Thanksgiving.  Unlikely to be able to get a test anywhere on Thanksgiving Day. The next morning we leave for the airport at 9AM so it is not likely we can get a test that day. Will there be staffing for the Binax test on Thanksgiving day? Possibly. Should we wait until we get to the hotel on Friday afternoon to do the Binax test when there will likely be thousands of people trying to get tested after family gatherings?  Seems like a bad idea to me. So what do we do?  Cancel the cruise and settle for a 90% refund in an FCC?  

 

Had the CDC/Carnival/HAL made the decision to change to a 48-hour test window before our final payment we would have cancelled based on these logistics.

 

Bottom line is that we will probably cancel, take a 10% loss, use the FCC sometime in early 2022, cancel our September 2022 Greek Island cruise with Celebrity, and give up on cruising entirely.  Is this what the cruise industry wants to see happen to frustrated customers?  I hope not. Because it will probably not work out too good for them in the long run.

[12cruise2]

27 minutes ago, SueMo said:

 

I agree with you in that I don’t want to stay at an AI or resort hotel for a week.  Sitting on a beach every day may appeal to some, but I like to see and explore new places, and cruising makes that very easy to do.  I recently returned from a 11 day self-drive tour in Alaska.  I had to rent a car, reserve 7 different hotels/B&B’s, excursions in each stop, dinner reservations, etc. and it was a huge task!  On a cruise, I only need to worry about excursions.

 

As for HAL, besides the unique itineraries, it fulfills a niche for senior cruisers that other lines are trying to get away from.  When our kids were young we did a number of CCL, NCL and RCCL cruises, but now I prefer cruises with fewer children.  More recently we sailed almost exclusively with Celebrity, but they are now trying to draw in a younger clientele.  The piped-in music in the lounges are electronic versions of new artists and their shows don’t thrill me as a 60-something.   I switched to HAL a couple years ago and found I really enjoy their music in BB Kings and Rolling Stone lounges.  And it’s affordable!  So I do believe they offer something different from other cruise lines for people like me.

I was disappointed the last couple of weeks with the singers in the lounges that they, at least the one I heard, cannot sing on key.  This is quite a sad commentary on the quality of HAL's auditions for singers on board.  We are in and out of there in a minute or two if they sing off key for sure.  Not pleasant to listen to.

[TomTN]

17 minutes ago, SueMo said:

 

I agree with you in that I don’t want to stay at an AI or resort hotel for a week.  Sitting on a beach every day may appeal to some, but I like to see and explore new places, and cruising makes that very easy to do.  I recently returned from a 11 day self-drive tour in Alaska.  I had to rent a car, reserve 7 different hotels/B&B’s, excursions in each stop, dinner reservations, etc. and it was a huge task!  On a cruise, I only need to worry about excursions.

 

As for HAL, besides the unique itineraries, it fulfills a niche for senior cruisers that other lines are trying to get away from.  When our kids were young we did a number of CCL, NCL and RCCL cruises, but now I prefer cruises with fewer children.  More recently we sailed almost exclusively with Celebrity, but they are now trying to draw in a younger clientele.  The piped-in music in the lounges are electronic versions of new artists and their shows don’t thrill me as a 60-something.   I switched to HAL a couple years ago and found I really enjoy their music in BB Kings and Rolling Stone lounges.  And it’s affordable!  So I do believe they offer something different from other cruise lines for people like me.

Wow!

 That is our story to a T. We first sailed on Hal in the mid nineties about 4-5 times when we were In Our early fourties.  We enjoyed talking to the old folks. Then we sailed mostly with Celebrity for around 15 years. An excellent cruise line, but we  needed to move on.  So we sailed the Viking Passage cruise  in 2018, and loved HAL again.

Yes,, they are a little different in good ways.

Makes me want to cruise.

[mcrcruiser]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

You keep equating cruises with hotel stays in terms of vacations. In my mind they are not at all the same. I take a cruise to travel and see places, and I know that I am not alone. Not all cruisers can so easily replace cruising with an alternative.

 

Also, many of us have specific places and itineraries in mind. At this stage in my life I am not interested in parking myself at an AI or resort hotel or time stay for a week, and I hate car trips -- I have commuted 1.5 hours to work for 20 years and I am sick of driving. I've done a lot of travel in the US and frankly there aren't many more places that I am keen to visit (or re-visit), at least not yet.

 

So I think it behooves us all to realize that whatever OUR OWN individual wishes and wants are with regard to travel, you're going to get a dozen other wishes and wants from asking 12 more people. 

 

 

What works for you is great & we understand your likes in cruising  vs any road trips .. The only point I am making here is that having only 48  hours is a skinny window to get a verified  negative  covid  test  .For that reason i cancelled the 7 night cruise  & then took the more expensive 18 night cruise . We are hoping that by Nov 2022 before final payment that HAL has a plan in place that makes it   workable with out stress ,  .This is what we hope for   to get the test at the pier or more days to get a certified test  .This is what we hope for  not only doe us but the cruising public  & the continuance  of the cruise industry  .Otherwise there are alternative vacation possibilities 

 

 BTW we understand that the CDC made HAL /Princess  go from 72 to the 48 hour time period with out giving thought  about the real people   involved  getting the test  . Very typical these days of government  ,trying to force people to jump through their hoops   & forget all about their rights 

[cruisemom42]

1 minute ago, mcrcruiser said:

BTW we understand that the CDC made HAL /Princess  go from 72 to the 48 hour time period with out giving thought  about the real people   involved  getting the test  . Very typical these days of government  ,trying to force people to jump through their hoops   & forget all about their rights 

 

It is not required ONLY of Princess and HAL. It is applicable to all ships sailing from the US. And if you do a little research you'll find testing is required in quite a few (if not all) of the other countries that are allowing cruise ships to sail.

 

And how exactly would you suggest a government implement a policy that will impact tens of thousands of people and not inconvenience some of them? 

 

Do so many people STILL not understand that there is a larger imperative than being able to easily hop on board a pleasure cruise at stake here?  The goal is to protect people and keep them healthy. At times, the collective good trumps the individual's desire.

 

 

[Caribbean Chris]

37 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

What works for you is great & we understand your likes in cruising  vs any road trips .. The only point I am making here is that having only 48  hours is a skinny window to get a verified  negative  covid  test 

An option is the Rapid Antigen test which provides results in as little as 15 - 30 minutes.

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Do so many people STILL not understand that there is a larger imperative than being able to easily hop on board a pleasure cruise at stake here?  The goal is to protect people and keep them healthy. At times, the collective good trumps the individual's desire.

 

There are too many of our citizens that don't understand the concept of "the collective good".  

[kazu]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Do so many people STILL not understand that there is a larger imperative than being able to easily hop on board a pleasure cruise at stake here? 

 

Or an airplane, bus or train 

And I’m afraid that a number of people are “missing the boat” on the larger imperative 😢 

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

The goal is to protect people and keep them healthy. At times, the collective good trumps the individual's desire.

 

Exactly. Unfortunately in 1918 people got it.  In 2021 many don’t and are only thinking of “me” and not their friends, relatives or community nor the collective good. 😢 

[jimmy2x]

4 hours ago, Caribbean Chris said:

An option is the Rapid Antigen test which provides results in as little as 15 - 30 minutes.

I have no problem with getting the test. The problem is the two day time frame. We are scheduled for 21 days on the Nieu Statendam next February and have to fly out of PHL. We normally fly out 3 days ahead because of the possibility of snow in our area. This means that I have to find someplace reliable in FLL. I can only hope that the protocol will change enough to make things a bit easier. 

[nocl]

On 9/20/2021 at 7:01 PM, mcrcruiser said:

We do a lot of land trips & we have yet to encounter  Hilton ,Marriott ot Choice hotel chains requiring  negative covid testing  & to  our knowledge it is not some thing they are even thinking of  implementing . hotels are very different than closed in cruise ships at sea  Balancing safety with  profitable business is a fine juggling act . One bad mistake & the act id finished  for good 

Try traveling to Hawaii. Every hotel you check into checks that you have been cleared by the state and exempt form quarantine, which means that if you are not vaccinated you have to tested negative.  For that matter just try inside dining in Honolulu without a vaccine card in hand.

[Kenito]

Follow the money.  I wish I had the cash to buy more CCL stock last year when it was at $9; last week at $30; 2018 at $70... and some analysts expect it to see $60 again relatively soon. 

 

I think CCL/HAL will adjust, adapt, and conquer.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

FYI there were 4 ships at Mykonos yesterday 

Holland

Royal

Costa

Celebrity

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Caribbean Chris]

10 hours ago, jimmy2x said:

I have no problem with getting the test. The problem is the two day time frame. We are scheduled for 21 days on the Nieu Statendam next February and have to fly out of PHL. We normally fly out 3 days ahead because of the possibility of snow in our area. This means that I have to find someplace reliable in FLL. I can only hope that the protocol will change enough to make things a bit easier. 

I probably will have the same challenge when sailing out of San Diego in January, assuming HAL extends the test requirement - but I am not overly concerned about finding a rapid antigen test site there. I suspect you will find sources readily available in Ft. Lauderdale. We live in a smaller metro area than FLL and there are several options for the free rapid test a short drive away.

[mightycruisequeen]

We're all looking at the situation with cancelled cruises/altered or abbreviated itineraries, and escalating health and safety requirements to cruise.  It's not engendering the excitement and anticipation that the idea of cruising is supposed to do; quite the opposite, I'd say.  At some point, the cruising public is going to say "enough" with the excessive hoops that the cruise lines expect them to jump through, and they're just going to stop putting deposits on cruises.  That will be the death of cruise lines, including HAL, in my opinion.

 

[kazu]

2 minutes ago, mightycruisequeen said:

At some point, the cruising public is going to say "enough" with the excessive hoops that the cruise lines expect them to jump through, and they're just going to stop putting deposits on cruises. 

 

It’s not the cruise lines that are creating the additional precautions - it’s the virus and the countries they are visiting that are requiring the protocols like testing and vaccination.

[mightycruisequeen]

9 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

It’s not the cruise lines that are creating the additional precautions - it’s the virus and the countries they are visiting that are requiring the protocols like testing and vaccination.

Nonetheless, it's a business killer when it goes on and on the way it is.

Let me ask you; are you planning to book a cruise any time soon?

Edited September 22, 2021 by mightycruisequeen

[kazu]

7 minutes ago, mightycruisequeen said:

Nonetheless, it's a business killer when it goes on and on the way it is.

Let me ask you; are you planning to book a cruise any time soon?

 

I have two booked for next year - Norway and Europe TA 🙂. I’m not alone by the look of my roll calls 😉