Should I wait?

[Eggtuary]

17 minutes ago, Zach1213 said:

As far as I know, Kayak is purely a search engine. It takes you to other places (some decent, like the airlines themselves; some sketchy, like CheapOAir) to actually book. Do you know who you actually booked through? 

I like a search engine, it showed a number of options. The one I went with, Kayak listed itself as the seller. 

[Eggtuary]

I’m increasingly nervous about these flights. When I called Kayak, their outgoing message said they can’t make any changes to flights. When I called Lufthansa, they said I booked with Kayak, and I have to make all changes through them. 
 

I called Kayak back, ignored the outgoing message and talked to someone live. Turns out the could have canceled or made changes… but only for the first 24 hours. Totally non-refundable and non-cancelable now. I talked to a supervisor and they were willing to let me change flights, but only at a cost of hundreds of dollars. 
 

I’ve started reading reviews of Kayak as a travel agency and they’re horrendous. Lots of stories of canceled or changed flights with no notifications, passengers left stranded and having to make their own arrangements, Kayak refusing to refund…

[Zach1213]

3 hours ago, Eggtuary said:

I’m increasingly nervous about these flights. When I called Kayak, their outgoing message said they can’t make any changes to flights. When I called Lufthansa, they said I booked with Kayak, and I have to make all changes through them. 
 

I called Kayak back, ignored the outgoing message and talked to someone live. Turns out the could have canceled or made changes… but only for the first 24 hours. Totally non-refundable and non-cancelable now. I talked to a supervisor and they were willing to let me change flights, but only at a cost of hundreds of dollars. 
 

I’ve started reading reviews of Kayak as a travel agency and they’re horrendous. Lots of stories of canceled or changed flights with no notifications, passengers left stranded and having to make their own arrangements, Kayak refusing to refund…

 

I'm sorry you've run in to this. But this is actually a very important statement, and why so many of us regulars on this board push people to book directly with the airline. It also points out that, by booking through an agency, you're putting something other than you and your airline in control of your flights (in this case, Kayak). With good travel agents, this may or may not be an issue. Obviously, with a sketchy one, it's an issue. Again, I'm sorry you've encountered this. 

 

The 24 hour rule is actually a US Department of Transportation rule. Doesn't matter who you book with - you have 24 hours to cancel or change at no fee. Alternatively, they can give you a 24 hour free hold before booking to allow you to lock in flights and a fare at no risk. 

[CruiserBruce]

This is a good example of why "best price" is not always the best deal, in the long run.

 

Pre Covid, changing or canceling booked flights was frequently a nightmare, with incredible fees if even possible,  with most airlines. Today, changing flights booked with airlines is much easier, as airlines try to retain customers through Covid. Just yesterday, I voluntarily changed from a 1pm flight to a 9am flight 9 days from now, and United refunded me about 15% on my airfare. Much to my surprise. 

 

Why are you wanting to change these flights now that you are beyond the standard cancelation window?

[mj_ewing]

3 hours ago, Eggtuary said:

I’ve started reading reviews of Kayak as a travel agency and they’re horrendous. Lots of stories of canceled or changed flights with no notifications, passengers left stranded and having to make their own arrangements, Kayak refusing to refund…

I hope your travel experience turns out better than your booking experience.

[Eggtuary]

6 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Why are you wanting to change these flights now that you are beyond the standard cancelation window?

Because I have about 90 minutes layover in ORD on the way back, where I will have to go through Customs and go from Terminal 5 to Terminal 1. 
 

[CruiserBruce]

5 minutes ago, Eggtuary said:

Because I have about 90 minutes layover in ORD on the way back, where I will have to go through Customs and go from Terminal 5 to Terminal 1. 
 

As you have discovered, pretty sure you are out of luck, without considerable extra $$$. And, it will be Immigration that takes time, not Customs, so much. But you do have time to apply for Global Entry. For $100pp, it might be better money invested.

[Zach1213]

36 minutes ago, Eggtuary said:

Because I have about 90 minutes layover in ORD on the way back, where I will have to go through Customs and go from Terminal 5 to Terminal 1. 
 

 

While this is far from a comfortable connection, it's not impossible if everything is on time (always the big "if"). I would say try to get a seat as far forward in the cabin as possible, and hope for the best. Not usually the solution I push ("hope for the best"), but it may be your best bet here 🙂

[Eggtuary]

We are in business class on the flight into ORD, and I’m confirmed for seats in the second row. So that helps!

[rkacruiser]

7 hours ago, Eggtuary said:

I’ve started reading reviews of Kayak as a travel agency and they’re horrendous.

 

I am sorry to learn of your situation.  You were trying to be as proactive as you thought you needed to be to get the information that would be best for you.  Good for you.  

 

4 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

I'm sorry you've run in to this. But this is actually a very important statement, and why so many of us regulars on this board push people to book directly with the airline.

 

Booking with the airline is surely the best idea.  Dealing with a travel agency that is not simply an online one is a good idea in my opinion.  

 

These online travel "sites" serve a purpose when one is "shopping".  But, booking a trip through them?  No.  Not for me.  I booked two city tours through a well known site that deals with such excursions.  I was "worried" if our vouchers, etc. were really valid, etc.  It turned out well.  Booking anything more than such via an online agency--to repeat myself--No, not for me.  

 

4 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

4 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

This is a good example of why "best price" is not always the best deal, in the long run.

 

 

Caveat emptor!  

 

[FlyerTalker]

7 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

Booking with the airline is surely the best idea.  Dealing with a travel agency that is not simply an online one is a good idea in my opinion.  

 

Not necessarily so.

 

You can have a bad travel agency both online and with a physical presence.  It's the quality of the agency, and its agents, that matters - not whether or not it is a virtual or physical agency.

 

And FWIW, I have found that cruise-oriented travel agents, both online and physical, are some of the worst when it comes to air travel.  They rarely have the skills in the air category.

[Eggtuary]

7 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

And FWIW, I have found that cruise-oriented travel agents, both online and physical, are some of the worst when it comes to air travel.  They rarely have the skills in the air category.

Interesting. So do you use separate travel agencies for flights and cruises?

[FlyerTalker]

Just now, Eggtuary said:

Interesting. So do you use separate travel agencies for flights and cruises?

 

IMO - There is ZERO need for a travel agent for your air arrangements, unless you are doing an unusual or complicated routing, or if you are using agent consolidator fares (which are a tricky area that should not be used just because of a "bargain").

[fbgd]

I agree with Flyertalker with regards to flights. I very seldom use a travel agent for flights. On my trip to the UK last month I used American Express because I was able to save almost $600 compared to booking through British Airways directly with the Amex International Airline Program. Amex is about as "light" as a travel agent gets on these things and they're super easy to work with...Cheapoair they are not...

 

 

10 hours ago, Eggtuary said:

We are in business class on the flight into ORD, and I’m confirmed for seats in the second row. So that helps!

 

While that will put you ahead of the passengers on your flight it depends on the time of day you're arriving. I don't use ORD much for international, last went through there mid-afternoon a couple of years back, a notorious time for flights from Europe and the Middle East arriving in quick succession. The line for US Citizens/foreign travellers to clear immigration was a solid couple of hours. Luckily with Global Entry and hand baggage only I was from the aircraft door to the Terminal 3 bus in less than 5 minutes. 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by fbgd

[Eggtuary]

Yeah, we’ve applied for Global Entry. My interview is scheduled. Now just waiting for my wife’s application to get conditional approval so we can schedule hers, too. I got conditional approval vein just a few days, but that may be because I was approved for TSAPre a year and a half ago. 

[CruiserBruce]

11 hours ago, Eggtuary said:

Interesting. So do you use separate travel agencies for flights and cruises?

Cruises are the ONLY thing we use a travel agent for. I do all of our other travel arrangements myself, and have for close to 20 years. Note....written from the beach in Hawaii....

[FlyerTalker]

About GE:

 

Sometimes, it really doesn't help.  Recently at DFW, the line for GE was significantly longer than the regular immigration line.  Took the regular line and noted the person I would have been behind in the GE line.  I was done with a regular agent and saw that I would have still been in the line to get to a GE kiosk.

 

Maybe it was because they had 10 desks open for manual processing and I think only 12 or 16 kiosks.  But always check the length of the various lines.

[CruiserBruce]

16 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

About GE:

 

Sometimes, it really doesn't help.  Recently at DFW, the line for GE was significantly longer than the regular immigration line.  Took the regular line and noted the person I would have been behind in the GE line.  I was done with a regular agent and saw that I would have still been in the line to get to a GE kiosk.

 

Maybe it was because they had 10 desks open for manual processing and I think only 12 or 16 kiosks.  But always check the length of the various lines.

Our experience with GE has been awesome.  Yes, the GE kiosks are frequently busy, but never have had to wait more than a minute or two for one to come available. They definitely could add more kiosks. Always much, much faster than regular procedures. Plus GE can occasionally help in other ways.

[FlyerTalker]

36 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Our experience with GE has been awesome.  Yes, the GE kiosks are frequently busy, but never have had to wait more than a minute or two for one to come available. They definitely could add more kiosks. Always much, much faster than regular procedures. Plus GE can occasionally help in other ways.

 

Concur.

 

On balance, it's awesome to have.  But like everything relating to governmental procedures and processes, it's not a guarantee.  Just want folks to remember to always be on the lookout for the optimum process each time.

[rkacruiser]

14 hours ago, fbgd said:

I agree with Flyertalker with regards to flights. I very seldom use a travel agent for flights.

 

Agree with both of you.  The only times that I have used my cruise oriented travel agency of an air booking is when the air fare that they can arrange, either through the air/sea program of the cruise line or with the travel consortium of which the agency is a part, is a better deal than what I can find booking directly with the airline. 

[rkacruiser]

4 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Note....written from the beach in Hawaii....

 

Please drink a Mai Tai for me.  😄

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Agree with both of you.  The only times that I have used my cruise oriented travel agency of an air booking is when the air fare that they can arrange, either through the air/sea program of the cruise line or with the travel consortium of which the agency is a part, is a better deal than what I can find booking directly with the airline. 

 

For everyone.....please remember that those "special" pricing deals are almost always on consolidator/bulk tickets.  And that they are NOT the same as tickets that you would get from the airline directly.  The fare rules are usually more restrictive than published-fare tickets, and often have restrictions on endorsement to another carrier, routing restrictions and even flight number restrictions, to mention a few.  Along with stricter rules on changes and refunding to credits.

 

If price is your overriding consideration, then grab the cheapest ticket.  Just know what you are buying.

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, FlyerTalker said:

For everyone.....please remember that those "special" pricing deals are almost always on consolidator/bulk tickets.  And that they are NOT the same as tickets that you would get from the airline directly.  The fare rules are usually more restrictive than published-fare tickets, and often have restrictions on endorsement to another carrier, routing restrictions and even flight number restrictions, to mention a few.  Along with stricter rules on changes and refunding to credits.

 

Thank you for your post.  Agree, one does need to be cautious.

 

My one experience with my cruise oriented travel agent using air from their travel agent consortium was with flights from Singapore to San Francisco, a two day stop over at San Francisco, and then flights to DTW and DAY.  Business Class on Singapore Airlines to SFO; First Class on Delta to DTW and DAY.  The consortium price saved me a couple of thousand of dollars.  I was able to deal directly with Singapore Airlines as to requests (Book the Cook, seat selection, etc.)  as well with Delta with the SFO to DTW flight being on a Delta One 767 with service that closely matched their international service.  Was I fortunate that my experience was so successful?  

[Zach1213]

13 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Thank you for your post.  Agree, one does need to be cautious.

 

My one experience with my cruise oriented travel agent using air from their travel agent consortium was with flights from Singapore to San Francisco, a two day stop over at San Francisco, and then flights to DTW and DAY.  Business Class on Singapore Airlines to SFO; First Class on Delta to DTW and DAY.  The consortium price saved me a couple of thousand of dollars.  I was able to deal directly with Singapore Airlines as to requests (Book the Cook, seat selection, etc.)  as well with Delta with the SFO to DTW flight being on a Delta One 767 with service that closely matched their international service.  Was I fortunate that my experience was so successful?  

 

I think you're looking at different aspects of the ticket. You're looking at the forward facing aspects - service, dining, seats, etc. In many or even most cases, you'll have access to this as though you booked directly with the airline (at least, once you get your record locater and/or confirmation number of the booking). That's rarely an issue - if you didn't get your lobster termidor, it's disappointing but won't ruin your trip home. The issue brought up by FlyerTalker is more on the back end - if things go wrong with the flights themselves, you may be on a very different ticket than the person sitting next to you as far as terms & conditions go. This may or may not include the ability to be re-booked on to another airline, or even re-routed through another city on the same airline. 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Zach1213

[Eggtuary]

37 minutes ago, Zach1213 said:

 The issue brought up by FlyerTalker is more on the back end - if things go wrong with the flights themselves, you may be on a very different ticket than the person sitting next to you as far as terms & conditions go. This may or may not include the ability to be re-booked on to another airline, or even re-routed through another city on the same airline. 

This is what has me nervous. When I contacted Lufthansa, they said that Kayak was my travel agency. Meanwhile, Kayak‘s employees don’t seem to consistently know that they are ever anything more than a search engine. So if anything goes wrong with my flights, does that mean I can’t work with the airline employees at the gate?  Will I instead be stuck on the phone with Kayak and their (thus far, lousy) customer service, trying to book new connections?