Refund if you disagree with COVID protocols?

[Lou33]

On another thread about Explorer cruises, the question came up regarding if you can get a refund if you do not agree with new or changing COVID protocols.  Is RCI still offering the option for a refund if you do not agree with changing protocols?  RCI may not want to publicize such an option, but it would make sense.   If they no longer offer a refund option, when did this change?

Edited October 26, 2021 by Lou33

[Chauncey Picklepants]

59 minutes ago, Lou33 said:

On another thread about Explorer cruises, the question came up regarding if you can get a refund if you do not agree with new or changing COVID protocols.  Is RCI still offering the option for a refund if you do not agree with changing protocols?  RCI may not want to publicize such an option, but it would make sense.   If they no longer offer a refund option, when did this change?

We were set to sail out of San Juan in 2-1/2 weeks and found out yesterday that four out of six islands were not allowing self exploration. We knew that was a possibility however we expected them to offer acceptable excursions which they did not.

The limited ship run excursions were A. Expensive B. limited and less than desirable C. selling out with no alternative.  The possibility was extremely real that we would end up sitting on the ship looking at the port from a far. I just canceled with 100% refund about 15 minutes ago as that is an acceptable reason to cancel.  Heartbroken but there’s no way that’s an acceptable Caribbean cruise environment. 

[Lou33]

9 minutes ago, Chauncey Picklepants said:

I just canceled with 100% refund about 15 minutes ago as that is an acceptable reason to cancel

We are on the same cruise.  I'm not happy about the requirement for ship's excursions.  So we would be able to cancel and get a refund for the cruise, but not for our airfare.  We will go with the protocols, but it would be nice if RCI would offer tour discounts since we would otherwise be held hostage on the ship.  And will they have a plan if the tours sell out?  

 

You would think that they would offer discounts and alternatives, rather than have many people cancel.  

[Chauncey Picklepants]

4 hours ago, Lou33 said:

We are on the same cruise.  I'm not happy about the requirement for ship's excursions.  So we would be able to cancel and get a refund for the cruise, but not for our airfare.  We will go with the protocols, but it would be nice if RCI would offer tour discounts since we would otherwise be held hostage on the ship.  And will they have a plan if the tours sell out?  

 

You would think that they would offer discounts and alternatives, rather than have many people cancel.  

They’re offering no alternatives. Ex Barbados.  One beach choice for 3-1/2 hours is just unacceptable. In Barbados, it was 8-11:45 am. At Accra which was a city beach with lots of trash,   What were we going to do after noon?  Look at the port?  Drink expensive beverages? We got a refund on most of our airfare and rebooked to St Thomas-and rented a condo and a car. It ends up cheaper factoring in no San Juan stay and making a few meals in the condo.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Chauncey Picklepants

[jean87510]

13 hours ago, Lou33 said:

We are on the same cruise.  I'm not happy about the requirement for ship's excursions.  So we would be able to cancel and get a refund for the cruise, but not for our airfare.  We will go with the protocols, but it would be nice if RCI would offer tour discounts since we would otherwise be held hostage on the ship.  And will they have a plan if the tours sell out?  

 

You would think that they would offer discounts and alternatives, rather than have many people cancel.  

you may be able to get an airline credit and use to fly somewhere where you won't be considered as a pariah.  

[Chauncey Picklepants]

1 hour ago, jean87510 said:

you may be able to get an airline credit and use to fly somewhere where you won't be considered as a pariah.  

Frontier airlines gave us a full credit minus $39 each ticket (because it was within 30 days of travel date) Jet blue, same. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Chauncey Picklepants

[GEORGIEGIRL]

One reason that RCCL might be offering only limited options for excursions is because the 3rd. party tour companies that they use may just not have enough vehicles/employees/space to accomodate the "Large" number of passengers. Keep in mind that if you are required to take a cruise ship option only, that now takes away the number of people who might normally just walk-off on their own and now they too are taking up excursion space.

 

I offer this as a possible reason due to my previous experiences of having to try and book Large group excursions (Pre-Covid) on various islands and sometimes finding it hard to reserve buses/tour guides, etc.

 

This is just 1 possible reason that they are doing so.

 

 

 

[Boo's Mom]

16 hours ago, Lou33 said:

We are on the same cruise.  I'm not happy about the requirement for ship's excursions.  So we would be able to cancel and get a refund for the cruise, but not for our airfare.  We will go with the protocols, but it would be nice if RCI would offer tour discounts since we would otherwise be held hostage on the ship.  And will they have a plan if the tours sell out?  

 

You would think that they would offer discounts and alternatives, rather than have many people cancel.  

Just know that although airfare is not refundable, most airlines are allowing cancellations with credit to rebook the flight at a later time. 

[BirdTravels]

12 hours ago, Chauncey Picklepants said:

Only offering one beach-only excursion per-island, being told that is sure to sell out, on a Caribbean cruise itinerary, then saying they’re not adding more slots or excursions is RC. Very very poor planning.  I believe this was totally avoidable.  Offering those excursions longer than 4 hours with more choice or flexibility of start/end  time within those same ship excursions, without the threat of getting left behind because the one offered sold out - and we’d still be sailing out in 2 1/2 weeks. What were they thinking would happen? A four hour excursion, minus 1 hour for transportation back and forth, minus  1/2 hour getting a chair and situated, is 2 1/2 hours on the beach - if you’re lucky. And at $175 for four people for those two measly beach hours to be rushing around, is a rip off.  And having the excursion start at 8 am and end before lunch is ridiculous. Who at RC negotiated those terms with the island’s government departments of tourism?  
 

 And nothing will change if they allow the unvaccinated - kids or adults -  to cruise into ports. These islands are not having it. 

Again, RCCL does not run any shore excursions. They hold contracts with local vendors who are willing to abide by RCCL and country rules. Capacity is limited. Tour vendors often rely on seasonal workers (who are restricted from entry) are having problems with getting people to work (we saw it in spades in Alaska). 
 

It is called Snooze Loose. If you want an excursion, book it. The local laws, not RCCL, dictate whether you can tour on your own. And the local laws will minimize the number of dirty Americans on their soil. 

[Chauncey Picklepants]

10 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

Again, RCCL does not run any shore excursions. They hold contracts with local vendors who are willing to abide by RCCL and country rules. Capacity is limited. Tour vendors often rely on seasonal workers (who are restricted from entry) are having problems with getting people to work (we saw it in spades in Alaska). 
 

It is called Snooze Loose. If you want an excursion, book it. The local laws, not RCCL, dictate whether you can tour on your own. And the local laws will minimize the number of dirty Americans on their soil. 

These are beach only excursions I am speaking of.  Just a ride to a beach and back.  There’s no reason these couldn’t be offered as 6 hour or starting at a reasonable hour instead of 8 am.  Doubtful there weren’t enough locals wanting to resume making money on cruise ship passengers. I would think the opposite.  
 

Snooze you lose is fine when there’s 100 people vying for 75 spots on a beach trip where there are 6 other similar options.  But here we have 800 people who all jumped thru hoops and travelled to SAN JUAN with the expectation that on a SIX island itinerary touted as a return to Caribbean cruising! they wouldn’t have to fight to see sand for a few hours.  
What we got was a new Squid Game called “who gets to go to beach” with nervous passengers panicking last minute over xx number of spots on a vaguely described excursion which mentions no start times, to find out it’s Eight AM.  Take it or leave it is not what I signed up and paid for.  Cruising is not a game and there should not be winners and losers.  ALL passengers should get the chance to set their feet on a beach. Hence,  Royal did refund 100% because I didn’t want to play squid games in the Caribbean. 

[kjenaz]

I have held off replying, but have seen enough.  As to the comment of "Who could have predicted this - If you are an experienced cruiser who knows how to look at the internet and is following on Cruise Critic, for the Ports of Call of Barbados, Antiqua, St. Kitts, and St. Lucia.  This was VERY PREDICTABLE.  Celebrity (sister company of Royal) has been cruising these ports for several months and has it on their website for ANYONE to look at that you have been required to book a "Bubble Excursion"  I have been posting to those that have talked about booking on their own or just getting off to go to a beach or shopping that this was a very real possibility.  Now mind you I only have done 48 cruises in my life, but I am amazed at how many times I was slammed on these boards for suggesting such a thing.  Predictable - Completely!  All you had to do was read with an open mind.  In my last 46 cruises I have only booked a ship excursion once, but 2 months ago I booked for our party of 8 seeing the writing on the wall.  I understand if people do not have time to watch the boards and facebook.  I do not understand how people could put me down for trying to warn them.  As others have said.  I am putting my soap box away, and looking forward to my upcoming cruise out of San Juan.

[Lou33]

10 minutes ago, kjenaz said:

I have held off replying, but have seen enough.  As to the comment of "Who could have predicted this.....

Which post are you referring to?  In my post I said:

 

"We booked a long time ago and of course nobody could predict what restrictions would be in place"

 

We booked this cruise back in March 2021.  Way back then, how could somebody have predicted anything regarding COVID restrictions?  Actually, back then, I seriously hoped that by November, COVID would be a distant memory, and cruise ships would be at full capacity with no restrictions.  And things probably would be normal if not for Delta.  

 

Yes within the last month I have seen your posts that Celebrity cruises had port restrictions in the Southern Islands.  I thought your posts were helpful and I booked a few ship's excursions at that time just in case.  Thank you for your help.  We hope to see you in a few weeks.  

[PolytheneGirl]

2 hours ago, Lou33 said:

 

You didn't read my response to that comment.  I'll say it again.  We are very happy to go on this cruise.  We booked a long time ago and of course nobody could predict what restrictions would be in place, or even if it would be cancelled.  Of course we are disappointed that some ports have restrictions...how would you feel???  Can I express my opinion that RCI might take steps to help with that situation???....that's what members do here.   If we found the protocols unacceptable, we would cancel and I expect that we would get a full refund.   And again, since people like to point out that we live in "the land of restrictions", we are very happy to live in San Jose where people are happy to do their part, wear masks, get vaxed, and case rates are a fraction of the rest of the country.  

 

What steps would you deem appropriate for Royal to take in this instance? 

[Lou33]

25 minutes ago, PolytheneGirl said:

 

What steps would you deem appropriate for Royal to take in this instance? 

The problem is that you can't get off the ship unless you book an RCI tour.  And all of the tours, especially the less expensive beach break tours may be selling out.  RCI could work with beach vendors to ensure that there is enough space so that everybody has on option to get off the ship if they choose.  Our beach break excursion in Barbados is limited from 8:15 to 11:45, not an ideal time, but the only slot left.  It would be nice if they could arrange so that people could come and go from the ship to assigned beach sites at their leisure.   

 

Also since RCI now has a monopoly on tours, they will generate a lot of extra income from passengers who otherwise wouldn't buy them.  Knowing this, and that many passengers may be disappointed that they can't make their own arrangements, they could offer a discount on certain tours as a good will gesture.   I doubt that they will do this.  In fact, they waited until after the sale was over to announce that RCI excursions are required.  

 

I'm hopeful that RCI will work out something.  But otherwise we are happy to be on the cruise and we will go with the flow.  

[xxHadleyxx]

I really do not know what things are like in teh Carribbean....but if the "bubble" rule for excursions is similar to what we had in Italy last week, I don't know that RCI can offer you more/better beach slots, etc.

 

As someone else mentioned above, one issue is there are just not enough vendors avaailbe who meet all the government requirenments to accomidate all the touirists who want to get off the ships.

 

And as much as I dislike paying a ton for an excursion, what is required of the operators is MORE than previously (in Italy they had to privide our meals becuase we were not allowed to buy our own, the guides got no breaks where people "explore on their own" as would previously have been the case, etc.....we had to be with the guide/group the ENTIRE time.  So, given all that, no the cost is not going to go down.

 

Italy absolutely did not allow "on your own"...so maybe it is not "just" a ride to the beach adn then you can do your own thing there?  It might well be a ride to a roped off area of beach, with guide in that location, and you must stay in that section in which case maybe the port chooses when this can happen, etc.  I haven't reserached hwat others have found there, so maybe you do get to do whatever you want during the "beach time" but ther emight be reasons beyond RCI's control (like local authorities closing off the beach to locals during certain hours to allow for excusrions that do not mingle with the popultion, etc).  

 

Perosnally, having been on 2 cruises so far this year and having a few booked for next year:  we are not taking ANY cruises at this point where we will be upset if we are not allowed to go on our own in port, or if a port is cancelled.  During Covid we figure things like that are to be expected and we hope for hte best but will only cruise if we can be hapy to just enjoy the ship if need be......the current world situation demands flexibility and patience, especially if travelling for liesure purposes.  

 

[Cruise a holic]

I understand that we are in a pandemic and am grateful to be able to go an a cruise ship.  It is our destination.  We have been on cruises for example, and the port had a storm and we couldn't dock- so we didn't stop their.  Also once on another cruise notified  that the cruise had engine trouble,  and instead of going to the bahamas sailed to Bermuda- again things happen and safety should be our number one concern. 

 

Part of the cruise contract states they reserve the right to make changes.  If you cannot accept that, you shouldn't cruise.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Cruise a holic

[Chauncey Picklepants]

4 hours ago, Cruise a holic said:

I understand that we are in a pandemic and am grateful to be able to go an a cruise ship.  It is our destination.  We have been on cruises for example, and the port had a storm and we couldn't dock- so we didn't stop their.  Also once on another cruise notified  that the cruise had engine trouble,  and instead of going to the bahamas sailed to Bermuda- again things happen and safety should be our number one concern. 

 

Part of the cruise contract states they reserve the right to make changes.  If you cannot accept that, you shouldn't cruise.

Good for you that the ship is your destination.  But I’m not you and that’s not my destination.
 

And Royal Caribbean disagrees with you since, because they couldn’t uphold their end of the contract they made with me to provide REASONABLE access via bubble excursions when mandated in their itinerary of ports, they refunded my money.

I also find it’s not good practice to take advice from a stranger who doesn’t know me or my family to determine if I *should or *shouldn’t cruise.  Engine trouble and bad weather are not relevant to my situation.  Assuming your expectations are my expectations is your  first incorrect assumption. 

 

[Cruise a holic]

3 hours ago, Chauncey Picklepants said:

Good for you that the ship is your destination.  But I’m not you and that’s not my destination.
 

And Royal Caribbean disagrees with you since, because they couldn’t uphold their end of the contract they made with me to provide REASONABLE access via bubble excursions when mandated in their itinerary of ports, they refunded my money.

I also find it’s not good practice to take advice from a stranger who doesn’t know me or my family to determine if I *should or *shouldn’t cruise.  Engine trouble and bad weather are not relevant to my situation.  Assuming your expectations are my expectations is your  first incorrect assumption. 

 

However cruise critic is a  forum for hearing all opinions. Some you might agree with others not.  I have valued the opinions Of those with experience.  Have received great information. 

[Wink87]

On 10/27/2021 at 12:19 PM, Chauncey Picklepants said:

These are beach only excursions I am speaking of.  Just a ride to a beach and back.  There’s no reason these couldn’t be offered as 6 hour or starting at a reasonable hour instead of 8 am.  Doubtful there weren’t enough locals wanting to resume making money on cruise ship passengers. I would think the opposite.  
 

Snooze you lose is fine when there’s 100 people vying for 75 spots on a beach trip where there are 6 other similar options.  But here we have 800 people who all jumped thru hoops and travelled to SAN JUAN with the expectation that on a SIX island itinerary touted as a return to Caribbean cruising! they wouldn’t have to fight to see sand for a few hours.  
What we got was a new Squid Game called “who gets to go to beach” with nervous passengers panicking last minute over xx number of spots on a vaguely described excursion which mentions no start times, to find out it’s Eight AM.  Take it or leave it is not what I signed up and paid for.  Cruising is not a game and there should not be winners and losers.  ALL passengers should get the chance to set their feet on a beach. Hence,  Royal did refund 100% because I didn’t want to play squid games in the Caribbean. 

Excellent post.

[Chauncey Picklepants]

On 11/6/2021 at 5:33 AM, glentally said:

 

Thanks Chauncey,  I assume you had to call to get the cash refund? Is there any particular verbiage I need to use to get the cash back vs FCC?  What about airfare?  Did you use Air2sea?

I initially called in to RC to inquire about the sold out beach excursions. It led to information about the early timing, lack of slots and short time lengths. The RC agent suggested I ask for a refund.  Honestly, I had not even considered cancelling at that point.  We were locked and loaded and ready to go on this trip. But after hearing they had not prepared adequately for the islands mandating bubble excursions as the only game in town, we decided to cancel.  I will state again, we knew there was always a chance for bubble excursions only.  But they did not have ENOUGH room on them for all passengers to participate. And I’m sorry but getting up at 6 am to go the the beach from 8-11am and back to the ship is not an adequate beach day.  That’s a consolation prize. 
RC agent suggested cancelling as that was an adequate reason: say lack of choice and supply of excursions due to the protocols. My TA said RC makes the rules, they just implement them.  And it was cancelled within 20 minutes of my phone call.  We shall see how long the refund takes.  I was told 3-4 weeks but I think it will be much longer.   I did not do air/sea.  Know that they will try to offer FCC and will say it is a one time exemption but it is your right to get a refund as what they sold is not what they’re providing. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Chauncey Picklepants

[DMWT Cruiser]

On 11/5/2021 at 10:37 PM, Chauncey Picklepants said:

It all depends on the port.  Caribbean ports are for the most part in lock down.  Caribbean cruising is not “back” as the cruise lines are touting.  Far from it.  And if the poster above is happy with a consolation prize of getting to sit on the ships in port, good for them. I booked a 6-island sail in the Caribbean to get off the ship at my leisure and see those islands.  And because they can’t offer that, they refunded my money. 

Respectfully, I disagree with the bolded portion of your assertion.

 

Ports that are open for cruise passengers (most, if not all require cruise visitors to be vaccinated, some require visitors be on ship excursion):

Amber Cove, Dominican Republic

Anguilla

Antigua

Aruba

Belize City, Belize

Bimini, Bahamas

Bonaire

Bridgetown, Barbados

Cartagena, Colombia

Castaway Cay, Bahamas

Castries, St. Lucia

Colon, Panama

Costa Maya, Mexico

Cozumel, Mexico

Curacao

Dominica

Falmouth, Jamaica

Freeport, Bahamas

French Guiana

Great Stirrup Cay, Bahamas

Grenada

Half Moon Cay, Bahamas

Harvest Caye, Belize

Jost Van Dyke, British Virgin Islands

La Romana, Dominican Republic

Montego Bay, Jamaica

Nassau, Bahamas

Nevis

Ocean Cay Marine Reserve, Bahamas

Ocho Rios, Jamaica

Port of Spain, Trinidad

Puerto Limon, Costa Rica

Princess Cay, Bahamas

Progreso, Mexico

Punta Cana, Dominican Republic

Roatan, Honduras

Samana and Cayo Levantado, Dominican Republic

San Juan, Puerto Rico

Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

St. Barts

St. Kitts

St. Maarten

St. Martin

St. Vincent, St. Vincent and the Grenadines

Tobago Cays, St. Vincent and the Grenadines

Tortola, British Virgin Islands

Virgin Gorda, British Virgin Islands

 

Ports that are closed to cruise visitors:

 

Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands

Grand Turk, Turks and Caicos

Guadeloupe

Labadee, Haiti

Martinique

Montserrat

St. Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands

St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands

St. John, U.S. Virgin Islands

 

I'd hardly say that "Caribbean ports are for the most part in lock down".  The majority of Caribbean ports allow vaccinated visitors to explore freely.

 

I'm happy for you that you were able to receive satisfaction from RCL when you believed the cruise experience would not meet your expectations. 

 

The key, IMO, to enjoying cruise travel during this season is flexibility.  Everyone who doesn't have their head buried in the sand knows that cruise travel (like many aspects of life) is NOT back to normal.  There are protocols and restrictions imposed by cruise lines and governments that some may find disagreeable.  Those who are unwilling/unable to be flexible should simply not book a cruise at this particular time.  That avoids the matter of unmet expectations.

[Chauncey Picklepants]

3 minutes ago, DMWT Cruiser said:

Respectfully, I disagree with the bolded portion of your assertion.

 

Ports that are open for cruise passengers (most, if not all require cruise visitors to be vaccinated, some require visitors be on ship excursion):

Amber Cove, Dominican Republic

 

Anguilla

 

Antigua

 

Aruba

 

Belize City, Belize

 

Bimini, Bahamas

 

Bonaire

 

Bridgetown, Barbados

 

Cartagena, Colombia

 

Castaway Cay, Bahamas

 

Castries, St. Lucia

 

Colon, Panama

 

Costa Maya, Mexico

 

Cozumel, Mexico

 

Curacao

 

Dominica

 

Falmouth, Jamaica

 

Freeport, Bahamas

 

French Guiana

 

Great Stirrup Cay, Bahamas

 

Grenada

 

Half Moon Cay, Bahamas

 

Harvest Caye, Belize

 

Jost Van Dyke, British Virgin Islands

 

La Romana, Dominican Republic

 

Montego Bay, Jamaica

 

Nassau, Bahamas

 

Nevis

 

Ocean Cay Marine Reserve, Bahamas

 

Ocho Rios, Jamaica

 

Port of Spain, Trinidad

 

Puerto Limon, Costa Rica

 

Princess Cay, Bahamas

 

Progreso, Mexico

 

Punta Cana, Dominican Republic

 

Roatan, Honduras

 

Samana and Cayo Levantado, Dominican Republic

 

San Juan, Puerto Rico

 

Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

 

St. Barts

 

St. Kitts

 

St. Maarten

 

St. Martin

 

St. Vincent, St. Vincent and the Grenadines

 

Tobago Cays, St. Vincent and the Grenadines

 

Tortola, British Virgin Islands

 

Virgin Gorda, British Virgin Islands

 

 

 

Ports that are closed to cruise visitors:

 

 

 

Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands

 

Grand Turk, Turks and Caicos

 

Guadeloupe

 

Labadee, Haiti

 

Martinique

 

Montserrat

 

St. Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands

 

St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands

 

St. John, U.S. Virgin Islands

 

 

I'd hardly say that "Caribbean ports are for the most part in lock down".  The majority of Caribbean ports allow vaccinated visitors to explore freely.

 

I'm happy for you that you were able to receive satisfaction from RCL when you believed the cruise experience would not meet your expectations. 

 

The key, IMO, to enjoying cruise travel during this season is flexibility.  Everyone who doesn't have their head buried in the sand knows that cruise travel (like many aspects of life) is NOT back to normal.  There are protocols and restrictions imposed by cruise lines and governments that some may find disagreeable.  Those who are unwilling/unable to be flexible should simply not book a cruise at this particular time.  That avoids the matter of unmet expectations.

This information is not at all accurate. USVI has been and is open.  BVI is closed. That’s just a start. Antigua, St Kitts, Barbados and St Lucia are excursion only.  
 

I’m on my way to church to thank God for giving me another day.  I hope you find some joy today too. Pleasant day to you.  

[DMWT Cruiser]

52 minutes ago, Chauncey Picklepants said:

This information is not at all accurate. USVI has been and is open.  BVI is closed. That’s just a start. Antigua, St Kitts, Barbados and St Lucia are excursion only.  
 

I’m on my way to church to thank God for giving me another day.  I hope you find some joy today too. Pleasant day to you.  

I mentioned in my post that some open ports require ship excursions for cruise visitors, you may have overlooked that.

 

Are you sure BVI are closed to cruise passengers?

 

https://bvi.gov.vg/media-centre/statement-premier-fahie-update-cruise-passengers-and-bvigateway-entry-protocol

[mayleeman]

I never saw so much griping by someone getting a full refund. 

[Chauncey Picklepants]

3 hours ago, mayleeman said:

I never saw so much griping by someone getting a full refund. 

That “full refund” cost over $350 in Binax AG card tests I no longer have any use for and that expire in a month. $1000 in passports we no longer need right now. Yes we hopefully will at some point, but my wife is not well and it is not a given.

 $400 in airline change fees and $700 on a non-refundable 2-night stay in a San Juan hotel. That’s $2450 we laid out, and that’s not all of it. 
 

I’ve never seen so many people resentful of someone who was entitled to receive a refund, actually getting one. 
 

It is backwards logic trying to explain why the customer,  being me, was wrong - when  the corporation decided to do right by the customer.   I am responding to queries relevant to the thread title. Stating facts is not griping.