Woe With O ---Marina 12/1 Changes

[Carraig]

We are on the 12/19 Lima-BA, and were waiting until the last day to decide wether to accept the FCC or change our plans.  So it looks like we'll know on the 8th now.  I would like to petition O to allow us more time to decide, however.  Nov 10th seemed a rush to me.  They will not resell our cabins.  Things change so fast these days regarding entry requirements.  What's the harm in allowing folks another few weeks to decide whether they want to continue or not?  Could it be that they need to order provisions and do other types of payments on a set schedule?    I'm guessing that is it.

[Flatbush Flyer]

12 minutes ago, Carraig said:

We are on the 12/19 Lima-BA, and were waiting until the last day to decide wether to accept the FCC or change our plans.  So it looks like we'll know on the 8th now.  I would like to petition O to allow us more time to decide, however.  Nov 10th seemed a rush to me.  They will not resell our cabins.  Things change so fast these days regarding entry requirements.  What's the harm in allowing folks another few weeks to decide whether they want to continue or not?  Could it be that they need to order provisions and do other types of payments on a set schedule?    I'm guessing that is it.

What exactly makes you think they won’t resell your cabins? There are still many folks with time limited FCCs from 2020-21 still looking for desirable cabin availability.

In addition, you’ve had months to think about the cruise. The only remaining piece is do you go with the original plan (if that’s what you hear on Monday) or do you accept the recent adjustment (which you already had been considering).

In either case, O has offered a reasonable way out for an issue they didn’t cause. And, in the meantime, you’ve had/still have plenty of time to decide what to do about possible port changes in general and Plan A or Plan B embarkation specifically.

[ak1004]

33 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

 

In either case, O has offered a reasonable way out for an issue they didn’t cause. 

 

 

I agree that they offered a reasonable way out - except for the flights.

 

Here is my example: we paid $1,150 CAD for one way ticket from Lima to Toronto (business class), which is non refundable. United allows to change the ticket to Santiago-Toronto, but the difference is an extra $900 CAD. This is not very appealing, not to mention the fact that they added extra 3 sea days, so now we have few extra hours of flights from a country that we won't actually see.. 

 

Now, if we cancel the flights, we get a future credit from United valid for 1 year. Since we are in Canada, this is almost useless.

 

I understand that this is beyond O control, but they could offer some kind of compensation for flights.

[Carraig]

1.  Because it’s not the same cruise at all anymore.

 

2.  Because agreeing to the new cruise involves much more then me saying to everyone on my booking that we are or are not going.

 

3.  Because switching airfare to Santiago involves additional costs for everyone I am traveling with.

 

4.  Because there is next to no information as to how early we need to arrive in Santiago….so it’s not even possible to rebook flights for everyone.

 

5.  Because Chile could change their entry requirements to be more favorable to us over the next few weeks which would make accepting the now non peru cruise easier.

 

If the cruise goes back to

including Peru we go….if not i’d love to be given a bit more time to sort it all out.  7 days with little information regarding Chilean entry isn’t enough.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Carraig
Spelling

[Woodrowst]

19 hours ago, Hlitner said:

So our first experience booking O is turning out to be awful.  Just today we were notified by O that they have completely revamped the 2nd half of our 12/1 cruise and eliminated the stops in both Ecuador and Peru (Lima was the final disembarkation port).  Now they have changed the debarkation port to Santiago Chile and added another Chile port.  O is essentially leaving those of us who have booked our own air (from Lima) on our own.  Since we booked our own air with Delta miles we are going to see if Delta can work some magic (we doubt it) rather then just refund our miles.  But this would leave us with awful air options from Santiago.

 

So, what does O say about folks who want to cancel.  They have given us 1 week to decide and if we cancel they will only grant a FCC (equal to what was paid) which must be used for a new booking within the next year for cruises.   O is not offering to refund the fare for cancelations.  Apparently they figure that if they change the end port to a different country and port it is just too bad.  I guess this will also cause problems for folks that were planning to join the cruise in Lima and have booked their own air.  They would now have to find a way to get to Santiago Chile and ultimately the port (which is at least a $100 cab fare).  What a mess.

 

Hank

P.S.  Msg to Flatbush Flyer.....we are not impressed by O customer service.  They were useless other then to tell us to call our cruise agency.

Hank-  I feel for you and for the stress and anxiety this causes.  In this day of COVID last minute itinerary changes you might want to consider booking air through the cruise line.  It may be a bit more expensive (it can also be cheaper) but it gives you the peace of mind that the cruise line will make changes as needed with no additional cost or hassle. This is the strategy my wife and I have taken (up until COVID hit we always made our own air arrangements) and it has paid off on an upcoming trip to South America.  The cruise line booked us on United to Buenos Aires.  They recently changed the point of departure from Buenos Aires to a bubble charter leaving from Miami.  With no muss or fuss they changed the United flights to go to Miami to connect to the charter to  South America.

 

Again, I feel for you and hope that everything works out.

 

David 

[Hlitner]

1 minute ago, Woodrowst said:

Hank-  I feel for you and for the stress and anxiety this causes.  In this day of COVID last minute itinerary changes you might want to consider booking air through the cruise line.  It may be a bit more expensive (it can also be cheaper) but it gives you the peace of mind that the cruise line will make changes as needed with no additional cost or hassle. This is the strategy my wife and I have taken (up until COVID hit we always made our own air arrangements) and it has paid off on an upcoming trip to South America.  The cruise line booked us on United to Buenos Aires.  They recently changed the point of departure from Buenos Aires to a bubble charter leaving from Miami.  With no muss or fuss they changed the United flights to go to Miami to connect to the charter to  South America.

 

Again, I feel for you and hope that everything works out.

 

David 

We actually agree with you and with other cruise lines do routinely book through the cruise line. But in the case of this cruise "O" did not have an even reasonable price on Business/First Class and we were able to get Delta One using miles with favorable terms.  To Delta's credit when we called them yesterday and explained that "O" had changed the itinerary (which they now disavow until at least next Monday) the good folks at Delta refunded our miles and taxes.   At the time we booked that air we were aware that there was a possibility of O cancelling or changing, but were pretty sure that Delta would be cooperative.  But Delta was not able to provide a good solution to fly home from Santiago (and after talking to O this morning they are also having problems) so we booked through a different airline.   But now O says....hold on because we may or may not change our mind again in the next few days.  

 

Even folks who are depending on O to handle their air no longer have any clue as to what will happen.  Sure, O will get them home....eventually.  Heaven only knows if they will be put on multiple connecting flights that will take over 24 hours to get them home (there are many such flights).  

 

But my position is that O has fouled up this cruise that they need to offer everyone a chance to cancel with a full refund!  None of this FCC nonsense with various end dates and restrictions.  Of course O does not want to offer a full refund because they assume that many of the booked passengers would cancel.  But air options for getting out of South America are very limited (due to COVID) and having a cruise line change its mind on a nearly daily basis leaves we customers shaking our heads.  

 

 

 

 

[ak1004]

23 minutes ago, Woodrowst said:

Hank-  I feel for you and for the stress and anxiety this causes.  In this day of COVID last minute itinerary changes you might want to consider booking air through the cruise line.  It may be a bit more expensive (it can also be cheaper) but it gives you the peace of mind that the cruise line will make changes as needed with no additional cost or hassle. This is the strategy my wife and I have taken (up until COVID hit we always made our own air arrangements) and it has paid off on an upcoming trip to South America.  

 

O quoted us $6,000+ CAD for business class tickets from/to Toronto.. we booked for less than $2,000. If it was a "bit more expensive", we would gladly pay the difference. But O air is a joke (there is a separate topic about it). So I assume that 90% of O customers book air independently, and this is a big issue, especially for long flights.

[CruiserTarheel]

I'm curious as to how many FCC's are out there that have to be used by 12/31/2022.  So many of the 2022 cruises are already sold out.  It seems to me that Oceania will eventually have to extend the deadline into 2023.

[LHT28]

32 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

O quoted us $6,000+ CAD for business class tickets from/to Toronto.. we booked for less than $2,000. If it was a "bit more expensive", we would gladly pay the difference. But O air is a joke (there is a separate topic about it). So I assume that 90% of O customers book air independently, and this is a big issue, especially for long flights.

If you want BUS class   YES book your own

if you are OK with Economy  O air can be worth it 

JMO

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

....having a cruise line change its mind on a nearly daily basis leaves we customers shaking our heads.  

 

 

 

 

As I said “damned if you do and damned if you don’t.”

In yet another of many many attempts, O is feverishly working to get multiple countries to change their minds..... (which would help you to avoid a Santiago flight) and you say everything is still their fault.

YOU chose DIY. And yet O’s continuing  “embarkation” city air efforts are aimed as much at alleviating your concerns as they are being done for those who used their air.

You posted back in July that you doubted the original itinerary would remain intact. You could’ve cancelled then. But, apparently you decided to gamble knowing full well that any embarkation change would mean work for air DIYers.

FWIW: I gave you an excellent strategy for having the best chance of getting out NOW, I.e., have whoever at your TA, with the most connectivity to Oceania, request a transfer to a SPECIFIC future cruise (at an equal/higher price) even if it’s dates are within a couple of months beyond the current offered FCC deadline. 

[cptxcpl]

It's getting crazy. I am delighted that Peru and Ecuador may be back in the mix. We are on the Miami-BA 38 day cruise and we would not have chosen the cruise without Peru and Ecuador. Of course, one might wonder what the real truth is behind the reason for reviving Peru and Ecuador. I'm sure Oceania received a great deal of negative feedback and possible cancellations which might have motivated them to look further into the subject. I immediately contacted my TA yesterday to express my displeasure over the changes.      

[Hlitner]

3 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

As I said “damned if you do and damned if you don’t.”

In yet another of many many attempts, O is feverishly working to get multiple countries to change their minds..... (which would help you to avoid a Santiago flight) and you say everything is still their fault.

YOU chose DIY. And yet O’s continuing  “embarkation” city air efforts are aimed as much at alleviating your concerns as they are being done for those who used their air.

You posted back in July that you doubted the original itinerary would remain intact. You could’ve cancelled then. But, apparently you decided to gamble knowing full well that any embarkation change would mean work for air DIYers.

FWIW: I gave you an excellent strategy for having the best chance of getting out NOW, I.e., have whoever at your TA, with the most connectivity to Oceania, request a transfer to a SPECIFIC future cruise (at an equal/higher price) even if it’s dates are within a couple of months beyond the current offered FCC deadline. 

I will give you credit as a terrific "spin doctor" who should be hired to run "O"s public relations office.  Assuming that O changes their embarkation, disembarkation, itinerary, ship, etc. you will have a comment that will praise all those decisions :).   So lets be very clear, "O" has made some very bad choices in the past few days.  And given their poor decision making, the attitude of the telephone staff, and all the grief they have caused many passengers why on earth would I want to gamble on this line in the future?   I expected a lot better from a FDR run cruise corporation.

 

Hank

[Hlitner]

Just now, Hlitner said:

I will give you credit as a terrific "spin doctor" who should be hired to run "O"s public relations office.  Assuming that O changes their embarkation, disembarkation, itinerary, ship, etc. you will have a comment that will praise all those decisions :).   Even if they replace their normal cuisine with gruel you would likely call it gourmet gruel 🙂  So lets be very clear, "O" has made some very bad choices in the past few days.  And given their poor decision making, the attitude of the telephone staff, and all the grief they have caused many passengers why on earth would I want to gamble on this line in the future?   I expected a lot better from a FDR run cruise corporation.

 

Hank

 

[Carraig]

17 minutes ago, cptxcpl said:

It's getting crazy. I am delighted that Peru and Ecuador may be back in the mix. We are on the Miami-BA 38 day cruise and we would not have chosen the cruise without Peru and Ecuador. Of course, one might wonder what the real truth is behind the reason for reviving Peru and Ecuador. I'm sure Oceania received a great deal of negative feedback and possible cancellations which might have motivated them to look further into the subject. I immediately contacted my TA yesterday to express my displeasure over the changes.      

My TA was on hold yesterday morning for three hours with O waiting for an agent.   I'd guess there was a lot of feedback given yesterday.

[ak1004]

I must say that two letters within 24 hours is indeed strange (we almost rebooked the flights yesterday), but we don't know the whole story. I'm sure this is not something O wanted to do, but many things are beyond their control. Maybe they could handle things better, but I also remember similar situation with Crystal few months back when things changed almost on a daily basis, and many people were stuck with flights as well. 

 

Overall we were happy with how O handled their customers during Covid (our refund from the 2020 cruise was processed within 6 weeks, compared with 7 months wait from Crystal). But nobody's perfect.

 

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, CruiserTarheel said:

I'm curious as to how many FCC's are out there that have to be used by 12/31/2022.  So many of the 2022 cruises are already sold out.  It seems to me that Oceania will eventually have to extend the deadline into 2023.

 

From yesterday's letter:

 

 

That's 2 years from now. Sounds very reasonable to me.

[ruthnlarry]

I realize that changes and cancellations occur due to Covid, and we accept that without complaining.  After all, we have had 7 Oceania cruises cancelled. 

My complaint is that Oceania sent an email yesterday informing those on the 12/1 and 12/19 cruise that itineraries were changed and that Marina was no longer going to Ecuador and Peru.  The email did not say that the changes were due to Covid, or that negotiations were still ongoing.  The email did not say that there  was a possibility that itineraries might be changed.  As a result, I booked a flight for the 2 of us from Lima to Santiago since we had made independent plans to do a land tour including Machu Picchu.

Then, to my surprise, I get an email today saying that the itinerary might be changed back to the original because dialogue with Peruvian officials turned positive yesterday.  Why didn't Oceania tell us that these negotiations were ongoing?  I would never have booked flights yesterday if they had.  As a result, I could lose a substantial amount of money since I may only get 30% back from these flights if I cancel.  Insurance will not pick up any more.

It also seems very strange that Peru was eliminated because of Covid.  Peru has been relaxing its entry requirements.  Effective Nov. 1, people entering Peru either have to be fully vaccinated or show results of a negative Covid PCR test within 72 hours of their flight.

Even if I lose money on the flights I booked yesterday, I hope that our original itinerary is restored with us departing from Lima.  I just hope that we will be on Marina to celebrate the holidays and welcome in a New Year!!

Edited November 4, 2021 by ruthnlarry

[Jockocruiser]

With most airlines, you can cancel booked/paid airline tickets with in 24 hours, even if non refundable 

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

... So lets be very clear, "O" has made some very bad choices in the past few days.  And given their poor decision making, the attitude of the telephone staff, and all the grief they have caused many passengers why on earth would I want to gamble on this line in the future?   

Interesting that you appear to be the only person “truly bent out of shape” on your CC roll call (or even among those folks on FB’s O Cruises Group who are doing this cruise).
 

Of course, the reality is that, across the entire passenger roster, you are probably not alone in your anger. But, like many of this threads responses to you, it’s a good bet that the vast majority of folks who didn’t cancel before final payment are in it for the long haul and fully understand/agree that O is doing an excellent job at managing a “moving target.” And among them will be plenty of O regulars who have experienced first hand O’s long history of “making things right (within reason).”

Going back and forth with different opinions of O’s behaviors is a worthless exercise since it won’t accomplish anything. So, let’s concentrate on “what next?” (if you’re still unsure about doing the cruise after hearing what O was able to accomplish by Monday).

 

With the understanding that it is extremely unlikely that O will give you a $ refund:

1. You can do the cruise (having made the necessary DIY travel mods, accepted whatever change fees/transfer assistance may be forthcoming from O and/or pursuing any trip interrupt costs insurance claims for which you qualify [e.g., new airfare price difference???]).

2. You can cancel w/o penalty and opt for the FCC including its “book by/cruise by” deadlines.

3. You can try my recommended strategy of cruise “transfer” request via your TA (including SPECIFIC future cruise and, if needed, request for “cruise by” deadline exception).

4. You can file a Credit Card complaint. Of course, O (or any cruise line) will respond with their Ticket Contract, T&Cs, evidence of their 100% FCC offer, etc.

5. You can complain to the US Federal Maritime Commission (if their new refund regulations are in place). However, those regulation focus on cruise line cancellations - not  passengers cancels.

6. Whatever you decide, you can also contact Chris Elliott (syndicated travel columnist/ombudsman) at elliott.org with your concerns and an explanation of the solution you seek. Elliott’s staff are very effective at negotiating reasonable solutions for reasonable problems.

 

Best of luck to you.

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

6 hours ago, CruiserTarheel said:

I'm curious as to how many FCC's are out there that have to be used by 12/31/2022.  So many of the 2022 cruises are already sold out.  It seems to me that Oceania will eventually have to extend the deadline into 2023.

Not really, the recent cancels of segment cruises involving OZ/NZ and parts of East Asia (and providing only refunds - no additional FCCs) have added significant cabin availability during the first quarter of 2022. 
Plus, for cruises O cancels, they are currently only doing $ refunds.

[cswhistler]

I know many disagree but at this time of covid I would never  book an O cruise without their air, that way they make all the adjustments for you at no expense. I do not fly business class as not in my budget. We have done this route previously during the Chile earthquake and O really looked after us rearranging flights and transport was included( not paid by us) to give us good service.

Good luck, perhaps it will all work as planned in any case.

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, cswhistler said:

I know many disagree but at this time of covid I would never  book an O cruise without their air, that way they make all the adjustments for you at no expense. I do not fly business class as not in my budget. We have done this route previously during the Chile earthquake and O really looked after us rearranging flights and transport was included( not paid by us) to give us good service.

Good luck, perhaps it will all work as planned in any case.

 

Booking economy with O via Olife is an excellent option. And sometimes you can get a cheap upgrade to Premium Economy.

 

I suspect that significant portion of O customers fly business when it comes to 6+ hours flights. For those customers, it's a big issue

[ToxM]

Honestly who would have thought that travelling during a PANDEMIC would cause the situation/itinerary to have to be fluid…

 

I did wryly smile at the comment made that someone had been travelling for 45 years and had never had any problems like this….too right, there wasn’t a PANDEMIC on at any other time….

 

Just because in your arena the PANDEMIC has eased a little, it does not mean it has everywhere else.

[PhD-iva]

11 hours ago, cswhistler said:

I know many disagree but at this time of covid I would never  book an O cruise without their air, that way they make all the adjustments for you at no expense. I do not fly business class as not in my budget. 

Agree, same here. I booked business class using Uniworld air in August for a Danube River cruise embarking in Budapest. If you recall, back then it was very problematic to arrive in Budapest. In fact the official police website said Americans could not fly into the country, full stop. In the end the police allowed us entry and then made the ship depart the city immediately, not allowing any ship tours. As I booked my air through the cruise line, I suffered less angst than DIYers.

For my 17 November Rome transatlantic to Miami on Riviera, I also booked business class through O. I might’ve paid a little more to use the cruise line air, and it has not been pleasant with the changes made to my previously preferred connections, but it definitely pays off in less worry. 
There is a price to pay to save money if you want to book your air DIY.

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, PhD-iva said:

Agree, same here. I booked business class using Uniworld air in August for a Danube River cruise embarking in Budapest. If you recall, back then it was very problematic to arrive in Budapest. In fact the official police website said Americans could not fly into the country, full stop. In the end the police allowed us entry and then made the ship depart the city immediately, not allowing any ship tours. As I booked my air through the cruise line, I suffered less angst than DIYers.

For my 17 November Rome transatlantic to Miami on Riviera, I also booked business class through O. I might’ve paid a little more to use the cruise line air, and it has not been pleasant with the changes made to my previously preferred connections, but it definitely pays off in less worry. 
There is a price to pay to save money if you want to book your air DIY.

 

Would you pay $6,000 if you could book it for $2,000 for the "less worry"?

Nobody would dispute that it pays off to pay "a little more" - in case of O, most of the time it's "much more", not "a little more".