POA last of it's kind under Passenger Vessel Services Act?

[dumbth]

Enjoy NCL's resumed service of Pride of America while you can, because after it there are archaic regulations making a replacement ship not really economically feasible. Unless Hawaii gets a similar exemption to the US-only routes as did Puerto Rico. Nerdy background info: http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Articles-Main/ID/29615/What-is-the-Passenger-Vessel-Services-Act

[chengkp75]

51 minutes ago, dumbth said:

Enjoy NCL's resumed service of Pride of America while you can, because after it there are archaic regulations making a replacement ship not really economically feasible. Unless Hawaii gets a similar exemption to the US-only routes as did Puerto Rico. Nerdy background info: http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Articles-Main/ID/29615/What-is-the-Passenger-Vessel-Services-Act

The PVSA is not archaic, and continues to protect the US by restricting all passenger vessels in domestic trade to be US flag.  The PVSA is not just for cruise ships, but covers every ferry, commuter boat, water taxi, dinner cruise, casino boat, sight seeing and whale watching boats, and even large charter fishing boats.

 

While I doubt that NCL will replace the POA, there is nothing to stop them, or another line, from getting Congress to pass an exemption to the US built clause, which would still require the ship be US flag, with US crew.

 

And, while the exemption for Puerto Rico is still active, only one cruise line took advantage of it for routine service (several use it for repo's), and that service failed after a year due to lack of demand.  It also only lasts until a PVSA compliant US flag vessel enters the trade.

[ontheweb]

22 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

  It also only lasts until a PVSA compliant US flag vessel enters the trade.

Is that another way of saying until hell freezes over?

[www3traveler]

I do not believe that The POA needs to be compiant with the PSVA since She is a US registered ship.  Because She is, She is no longer required to sail out to Fanning Island.

 

Because She a US registered ship, She has a  lot more regilations to follow including all kinds of employment rules which is what makes Her cruises so much more expensive.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, www3traveler said:

I do not believe that The POA needs to be compiant with the PSVA since She is a US registered ship.  Because She is, She is no longer required to sail out to Fanning Island.

 

Because She a US registered ship, She has a  lot more regilations to follow including all kinds of employment rules which is what makes Her cruises so much more expensive.

You are misunderstanding the PVSA.  A ship, in order to provide domestic passenger travel, must be compliant with the terms of the PVSA, i.e. US built, US flagged, US crewed, and US owned.  The POA meets all of these, except the US built clause.  She is PVSA compliant because she was granted a waiver by Congress on the US built clause.  NCL could have finished the POA overseas as they did, register it in the US, flag it in the US, and without the Congressional waiver, she would not be PVSA compliant.  There are many US flag ships that are not Jones Act compliant, for example.

 

I think what you are mistaking is what is required to be PVSA compliant with what a foreign flag ship needs to do because of the PVSA.  Foreign flag ships that meet the "PVSA requirements for a "foreign voyage" (one foreign port for a closed loop cruise, or a "distant" foreign port for an open jaw cruise) are not PVSA compliant, they are operating what the PVSA defines as "foreign voyages".

[Two Wheels Only]

I know nothing about this topic but if I was having a conversation with someone, would I pronounce PVSA as "pee vee essay" or would I pronounce it as "piv-suh"?

 

We say NASA.

We say SCUBA.

We say HIPAA.

I vote for PVSA.

[chengkp75]

On 11/10/2021 at 11:44 AM, ontheweb said:

Is that another way of saying until hell freezes over?

Well, American Hawaiian was building the POA in Pascagoula, when they went bankrupt due to 9/11.  There is currently enough money in the Federal Ship Financing Program to guarantee loans of about $380 million, and the last rates I saw were for about 1.6% and 25 year repayment.  So, there is the possibility of a line getting into the PVSA trade, but I would suspect that it would be for smaller ships than the POA, more like the Sky or slightly smaller.

[The Traveling Man]

On 11/10/2021 at 4:18 PM, Two Wheels Only said:

I know nothing about this topic but if I was having a conversation with someone, would I pronounce PVSA as "pee vee essay" or would I pronounce it as "piv-suh"?

 

We say NASA.

We say SCUBA.

We say HIPAA.

I vote for PVSA.

That's an interesting question.  There is, however, one significant difference between PVSA and the other acronyms to which you made reference.  Each of the others contain one or two consonants, followed by a vowel, followed by another consonant, followed by one or two more vowels.  That leads to the pronunciation of the acronym in two syllables with the first and second vowels each forming the basis of one of the two syllables.  PVSA has all consonants except for the A at the end, meaning that the first syllable should be comprised of the P and the V, thus piv-suh, not pee-vee-essay.  That's my two cents worth.

[ColeThornton]

13 minutes ago, The Traveling Man said:

That's an interesting question.  There is, however, one significant difference between PVSA and the other acronyms to which you made reference.  Each of the others contain one or two consonants, followed by a vowel, followed by another consonant, followed by one or two more vowels.  That leads to the pronunciation of the acronym in two syllables with the first and second vowels each forming the basis of one of the two syllables.  PVSA has all consonants except for the A at the end, meaning that the first syllable should be comprised of the P and the V, thus piv-suh, not pee-vee-essay.  That's my two cents worth.

 

Disagree.   PVSA is not an acronym.   It is pronounced letter by letter, not as a word which would make it an initialism.

[The Traveling Man]

1 hour ago, ColeThornton said:

 

Disagree.   PVSA is not an acronym.   It is pronounced letter by letter, not as a word which would make it an initialism.

ac·ro·nym

/ˈakrəˌnim/

noun

noun: acronym; plural noun: acronyms

1. an abbreviation formed from the initial letters of other words and pronounced as a word (e.g. ASCII, NASA ).

    

   The question that was raised by Two Wheels Only was "how would I pronounce PVSA?"  The question implies that it is to be taken as an acronym.  If we assume that the letters "PVSA" are not to be taken as an acronym, a reasonable but not intuitively obvious assumption, then I agree with you.  It should be pronounced letter by letter, viz. "Pee Vee Ess Hay."

[Two Wheels Only]

For the old school computer people, SCSI (small computer system interface) is pronounced "scuzzy" so I don't think that there is a hard set of rules. 🤗

[The Traveling Man]

3 hours ago, Two Wheels Only said:

For the old school computer people, SCSI (small computer system interface) is pronounced "scuzzy" so I don't think that there is a hard set of rules. 🤗

So do you pronounce "CICS" as "kicks" or do you say each letter?  Do you call "SQL" "sequel" or "Ess-Que-Ell" or "squeal?" 

[Two Wheels Only]

32 minutes ago, The Traveling Man said:

So do you pronounce "CICS" as "kicks" or do you say each letter?  Do you call "SQL" "sequel" or "Ess-Que-Ell" or "squeal?" 

 

It depends on what catches on. A graphic user interface (GUI) is "gooey" to some, "gee you eye" to others.

 

As for giff of jiff (GIF), that's been settled by the creator. 😁

[CPT Trips]

WYSIWYG

[don't-use-real-name]

POA is in a unique market solely in the USA 7 days 4 islands 5 ports of call and NO SEA days.

 

Ships from the continent must travel 4-5-6 days at SEA before touring the islands and must

make the regulatory stop either Vancouver in Canada or Ensenada in Mexico - (Fanning Island

Kiribati is meaningless/worthless) this sure does not favor the 7 day cruise concept.

 

Puerto Rico is much better positioned as a short SEA day in any direction results in an island

port of call and a lot of other combinations multiple ports and the continental mainland being

close at hand satisfying all the foreign port requirements.

 

Only if going TransAtlantic or Pacific are multiple SEA cruise days a curse (or blessing).

 

Protecting the small time maritime operations is still important - but as for the B-I-G ship

cruise lines - the USA has virtually forfeit building large cruise ships to foreign shipyards.

Until then a full waiver should be extended - the USA is doing nothing in this regard even

letting the SS United States rust away. 

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, don't-use-real-name said:

Protecting the small time maritime operations is still important - but as for the B-I-G ship

cruise lines - the USA has virtually forfeit building large cruise ships to foreign shipyards.

Until then a full waiver should be extended - the USA is doing nothing in this regard even

letting the SS United States rust away.

As I've said in the past, it is not due to the PVSA or Jones Act that the US maritime or shipbuilding industries have faltered, it is due to the Merchant Marine Act of 1936.  This set up construction and operating subsidies that offset the cost of US construction or US operation.  These subsidies led to stagnation in innovation in both shipbuilding and ship design and operation, which made us far less competitive than the shipyards in other countries.  This has been the case for decades.

 

As for the SSUS, as Crystal Cruises found out from their feasibility study, it would cost as much as a new ship to restructure the SSUS to meet current SOLAS requirements.

[bob brown]

My hope is for the US to ramp up its manufacturing capabilities in all fields to at least somewhat of what it was in the WWII era.   This is the only way the country can maintain its position as a world leader and power.   New technology would address the environmental issues that would challenge as a result.

 

For starters, perhaps the smaller shipyards that build new small cruise ships for the riverboat, coastal cruise, and ferryboat market, can incrementally use their knowledge to build bigger and bigger ships, even if it meant erecting a new shipyard(s) if necessary, and eventually build full sized cruise ships.

 

As an example, the Brazilian aircraft manufacturer Embraer, started out building very small airliner"s for the local and regional market, but now is building 'mainline' sized airliner's.  Some day, they could be a rival to Boeing and Airbus in the large airliner market...

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, bob brown said:

My hope is for the US to ramp up its manufacturing capabilities in all fields to at least somewhat of what it was in the WWII era.   This is the only way the country can maintain its position as a world leader and power.   New technology would address the environmental issues that would challenge as a result.

 

For starters, perhaps the smaller shipyards that build new small cruise ships for the riverboat, coastal cruise, and ferryboat market, can incrementally use their knowledge to build bigger and bigger ships, even if it meant erecting a new shipyard(s) if necessary, and eventually build full sized cruise ships.

 

As an example, the Brazilian aircraft manufacturer Embraer, started out building very small airliner"s for the local and regional market, but now is building 'mainline' sized airliner's.  Some day, they could be a rival to Boeing and Airbus in the large airliner market...

It's a nice thought, but it will never come to fruition.  I'm enough of a realist to understand that.  There are several problems.  One is that US workers do not want to work in the shipbuilding industry, where the work is hard, dirty, dangerous, and in all kinds of weather.  The average age of shipyard workers in the US is 55, no young workers are entering the field.  As for small shipyards expanding, the problem becomes "not in my backyard", which is why no new shipyards have been built in the US in decades.  And, even when a European shipbuilder like Aker invests in a US shipyard, and brings it's technology and experience to the US (Aker Philadelphia), the yard continues to struggle, as it can only compete within the PVSA and Jones Act trades, not with ships built overseas.  And, cruise ships, being a small market, could not support yards in the US, they would need to build other vessels as well, and these they cannot compete for either.  We lost this race decades ago.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

It's a nice thought, but it will never come to fruition.  I'm enough of a realist to understand that.  There are several problems.  One is that US workers do not want to work in the shipbuilding industry, where the work is hard, dirty, dangerous, and in all kinds of weather.  The average age of shipyard workers in the US is 55, no young workers are entering the field.  As for small shipyards expanding, the problem becomes "not in my backyard", which is why no new shipyards have been built in the US in decades.  And, even when a European shipbuilder like Aker invests in a US shipyard, and brings it's technology and experience to the US (Aker Philadelphia), the yard continues to struggle, as it can only compete within the PVSA and Jones Act trades, not with ships built overseas.  And, cruise ships, being a small market, could not support yards in the US, they would need to build other vessels as well, and these they cannot compete for either.  We lost this race decades ago.

Sigh, sad, but true.

[The Traveling Man]

17 hours ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

It depends on what catches on. A graphic user interface (GUI) is "gooey" to some, "gee you eye" to others.

 

As for giff of jiff (GIF), that's been settled by the creator. 😁

Definitely gooey.  Since the G in GIF stands for graphical, I side with those who use the hard G sound instead of the soft.  Way back when I used to code in COBOL, I called it CEE-EYE-CEE-ESS, but my IBMer wife actually knew Ben Riggins, who wrote CICS, so she convinced me to call it "kicks" the way he did.

[The Traveling Man]

16 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

WYSIWYG

So is it "GHEE- GO", "GIGH-GO", or "GEE-EYE-GEE-OH"?

[Two Wheels Only]

3 hours ago, The Traveling Man said:

Since the G in GIF stands for graphical, I side with those who use the hard G sound instead of the soft.

 

I was the same way for the same reason. Once the inventor stated the pronunciation that he prefers, I changed out of respect. 

 

3 hours ago, The Traveling Man said:

...I called it CEE-EYE-CEE-ESS, but my IBMer wife actually knew Ben Riggins, who wrote CICS, so she convinced me to call it "kicks" the way he did.

 

If I ever invent something that is used or seen by billions of people, I get to choose the pronunciation. 🤪