Mariner Society Changes

[rkacruiser]

20 hours ago, visagrunt said:

The very best meals that I have ever had on any ship, any line, any time have been the Die Librije pop ups which are now, alas, merely a happy memory.

 

Not a "happy memory" for me!  My traveling companion and I celebrated my 70th birthday with this "special dining" experience.  It was the most disappointing specialty type dining experience that I have ever experienced.  Most memorable was the dessert:  a deconstructed Apple Pie.  I prefer my Apple Pie properly constructed.  

[atexsix]

It never fails there's a takeaway just when you're about to go up a star, /smh.

[nimiq]

On 11/27/2021 at 7:20 AM, Woofbite said:

Just returned from the Rotterdam and discovered Rudi's is no longer eligible for a discount for 3 star or above members.

What other negative changes have they made while I was asleep?

 

It is really sad how HAL seems to be downgrading everything about their cruises from entertainment to food quality to

staffing and now their already meager award program.

 

(Has Mariner 4 status always required 200 days?  I seem to remember in ancient times it was less.  For a single, that translates

to about a $100,000 spent and they can't even discount their seafood restaurant 50%?)

 

 

 

Hello,

 

I think your the first person that I here from that complained about the Rotterdam. 
 

Not sure what you mean with downgrade entertainment ? Is having BB King,Lincoln Stage,Rock room,Billboard onboard plus the new interesting Half moon bar a downgrade to you ? 
 

Downgrade in food also needs to be explained ? 
 

Downgrade of staffing what do you mean by that ? 
 

It looks like you are very angry about not having the discount and took it to an other level by being negative of all the rest that was offered to you. 
 

Don’t forget you are a privileged person being able to travel these days as still lots Of people can’t. 
 

#behappy

 

 

[Laminator]

On 11/27/2021 at 6:41 PM, Rcriley34 said:

Just curious, what is the cost of the specialty restaurants?  I just bought the tamarind for my party of 6 and it cost $200.  I’M 3* and i wonder if I got my discount.  Or do you get a discount if you buy it ahead of time, on the app or through  ship services?   

We had a party of 8 in the Tamarind all under my cabin number. They asked each individual person their name and/or cabin number and charged depending on their mariner status. 4 of us were 4 star, 2 were 3 star and 2 were 1 star. 

[Laminator]

On 11/27/2021 at 6:34 AM, kazu said:

To answer your last question first, yes 4* Mariner status has always required 200 days.  Not 200 days of sailing necessarily since on board spending counts as does booking a suite.

 

 

Didn't 4 star mariner status used to be 300 days back in the day? 

[kazu]

3 hours ago, Laminator said:

Didn't 4 star mariner status used to be 300 days back in the day? 

 

 

You had me doubting my memory so I went to look and the answer is No.  The mariner package was expanded in 2009 when the on board spending and suite credit was added.  (Prior to that it was just pure sea days).

 

When it was re-vamped - 3 star was 75 days,, 4 star was 200 days and there was no 5 star category:

 

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/holland-america-line-launches-extensive-new-mariner-society-loyalty-program-538570721.html

[SargassoPirate]

15 hours ago, esimon said:

some people will never be completely happy - enjoy what they do give us -  I have never found anything to complain about on a cruise.  

 

For the most part, I agree.  In my earlier days of cruising I would complain about over-amplified production shows and smokers to the cruise line.  I didn't care for the noise levels in the MDR for dinner either, but the only person I complained to about that was She Who Must Be Obeyed. The smokers have pretty much been relegated to outcast status, but the shows are still too loud - especially anything in BB KIngs - and the MDR is the MDR.

 

As I got older and somewhat wiser, I stopped complaining and just avoid what I don't like.  I don't go to production shows and I avoid the MDR for dinner but do enjoy the MDR for breakfast and lunch. 

 

I must admit, though, that on a recent cruise I would occasionally pop into the MDR towards the end of the serving hours and just order coffee and a dessert.

 

 

[Woofbite]

23 hours ago, taxmantoo said:

Modern??? Crepes Suzette have been around since the 1800's 😏

I'm talking about the ones made since flame was outlawed on ships.   Who knows how long they are made in advance.  Just lukewarm crepes with orange sauce.  No wherenear the real thing.

 

[Woofbite]

8 hours ago, nimiq said:

Hello,

 

I think your the first person that I here from that complained about the Rotterdam. 
 

Not sure what you mean with downgrade entertainment ? Is having BB King,Lincoln Stage,Rock room,Billboard onboard plus the new interesting Half moon bar a downgrade to you ? 
 

Downgrade in food also needs to be explained ? 
 

Downgrade of staffing what do you mean by that ? 
 

It looks like you are very angry about not having the discount and took it to an other level by being negative of all the rest that was offered to you. 
 

Don’t forget you are a privileged person being able to travel these days as still lots Of people can’t. 
 

#behappy

 

 

Wow, did you miss the point.  I said nothing specific about the Rotterdam.  It is a magnificent new ship but every Holland America Ship, every cruise, every night now has the same entertainment: music music and dance, music and old BBC TV shows from 2006 and an occasional movie in the big theater.  Not everyones preference.

 

Food has definitely taken a downgrade unless you want to pay a hefty surcharge for what used to be included.  I'm sure someone on here has sample menus that make the point.

 

Staff in the dining room was running around like crazy trying to handle drinks, food service, refills, special requests, clean up and all the rest.  First night took over two hours for dinner.  It wasn't leisurely, it was slow.  Maître d apoligized and things slowly improved after that as more and more people, (our party included),  chose to eat in the Lido, Dive Inn and elsewhere.

 

Room steward said they now had 40 cabins to maintain.  Last cruise a couple of years ago they had 26.  Now encouraging once-a-day service.  Chocolates eliminated aside from Gala nights.  (Okay, so it 's minor - it's still a downgrade).

 

Not sure what your comment about being privileged has to do with anything.  Should we all mourn,     wear sack cloth and stay home in sympathy with those still unable to travel.  Yes I feel sorry for them and yes I'm thankful I can now waste my money once again on frivolous things such as cruising  where it helps numerous families in Indonesia, the Phillipines. various Islands and poor countries around the world.

 

I'm not angry with HAL, just disappointed.  I know it's a business but they used to be really special.  Now just somewhat less so in my opinion.

 

[Florida_gal_50]

2 hours ago, LMHSRN said:

Wow, after reading all your posts, I think maybe you need to just stay home.  We all have choices.  If you don't like it, don't do it!  Stay home!

There is zero need for a post like this.  The minute someone doesn't say something isn't sunshine and roses they get jumped on?  Happens way to often on here.  I'm wondering if people that are so quick to be critical of others have even been on a ship since the start up.  Its not the same.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Florida_gal_50

[Storylady]

13 hours ago, Laminator said:

Didn't 4 star mariner status used to be 300 days back in the day? 

Four star has always been 200 points which are made up of number of cruising days plus money spent on HAL cruises. We received our 4 Star pin in 2010 before we reached 200 days.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Storylady

[rkacruiser]

9 hours ago, Woofbite said:

I'm talking about the ones made since flame was outlawed on ships.   Who knows how long they are made in advance.  Just lukewarm crepes with orange sauce.  No wherenear the real thing.

 

 

Better than nothing at this stage of our lives, I think.  

 

Why must we accept this?  It's in our "best interest" some bureaucrats decided.  Those folks are located in the USCG and USPH.  I don't believe a ship has ever been lost because of a fire due to an uncontrolled flambe of Crepes Suzette's at a diner's table or a guest passing away because of some kind of unsanitary condition of such a dining side preparation or a deck/dining room buffet.  

 

We are so "well protected" by our government from such situations when so many more serious issues that pose a danger for us cannot seem to be addressed.  

[visagrunt]

Neither a hull loss nor a fatality is the benchmark for safety.

I can't speak to fire issues, but a cursory review of infectious disease literature suggests that during the 13 year period from 2006 to 2019 there was 50% decrease in incidence reports of Acute gastroenteric illness on cruise ships, coincident with CDC measures to control outbreaks on passenger vessels.  I'll grant you that there is a risk of post hoc ergo propter hoc with these numbers.  But the trend data provides reasonable grounds to believe in the effectiveness of these measures.

That still left an incidence rate of some 16 reportable cases per 100,000 passengers (which were, as these cases tend to be, clustered in outbreaks ranging from a few dozen to a few hundred cases per outbreak).  The vast majority of these are, of course, norovirus which spreads through the fecal oral route by way of contaminated food, drink or person-to-person contact.

Norovirus kills about 900 people annually in the USA and costs the health care system for over 100,000 hospitalizations.  There are plenty of case reports where outbreaks on ships have caused entire cruises to be cancelled while outbreaks are dealt with--with corresponding economic losses and disruption to affected passengers.

So I suggest that public health regulation demonstrates a positive benefit.  I leave it to others to discuss open flame.

[rkacruiser]

22 hours ago, visagrunt said:

a cursory review of infectious disease literature suggests that during the 13 year period from 2006 to 2019 there was 50% decrease in incidence reports of Acute gastroenteric illness on cruise ships, coincident with CDC measures to control outbreaks on passenger vessels.  I'll grant you that there is a risk of post hoc ergo propter hoc with these numbers.  But the trend data provides reasonable grounds to believe in the effectiveness of these measures.

 

A very informative post; thank you for making it.

 

Prior to 2006, for how many decades have buffets have been enjoyed by guests in the dining room and on deck without any indication in maritime history of passenger ship travel that guests suffered from gastric issues due to their dining at those buffets?  

[visagrunt]

34 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

A very informative post; thank you for making it.

 

Prior to 2006, for how many decades have buffets have been enjoyed by guests in the dining room and on deck without any indication in maritime history of passenger ship travel that guests suffered from gastric issues due to their dining at those buffets?  

A bit to unpack there.

First, "without any indication," necessarily implies the question, "indication to whom?"  Indication to the public?  Indication to governments?  Indication to lines and masters?  Indication to medical staff?  In the absence of regulation, what is the incentive for vessel operators to make any disclosure of acute gastroenteric illness on board their vessels?  Sometimes government has to step in because they are the only ones with the means to enforce an obligation on operators to disclose information of interest to the travelling public.  An awful lot of emesis was likely ignored or ascribed to seasickness before infectious disease specialists began to pay attention. 

Second, we have to consider the conditions in vessels prior to 2006?  Ships were smaller, passengers per square metre were likely lower (I can't be definitive about that), and other factors that directly contribute to viral spread might have been mitigated when compared with today's vessels.

Finally, we should bear in mind that while "winter vomiting disease," was identified in scientific literature in the 1920's, and was likely the first description of norovirus related gastroenteric illness, the norovirus was only identified as the vector for AGE illness in 1972.

Norovirus isn't new--but our understanding of it is moreso.

[mcrcruiser]

Does any one know the cost of one dinner in the MDR  ;which people give up  to dine & pay extra for the  ships special restaurants ?  

[zgscl]

On 11/27/2021 at 4:41 PM, Rcriley34 said:

Just curious, what is the cost of the specialty restaurants?  I just bought the tamarind for my party of 6 and it cost $200.  I’M 3* and i wonder if I got my discount.  Or do you get a discount if you buy it ahead of time, on the app or through  ship services?   

Their IT cannot figure this out. The onboard accounting team is supposed to apply your discount on the last night/disembarkation day of your cruise. This may or may not happen depending on how lucky you are. I asked the Neptune lounge concierge and they followed up to make sure it happened. I have seen folks report that they never got it onboard and ended up writing HAL Mariner Society and got a refund from them after the cruise. It is tedious that one must go through this to get their discount but I still prefer to book in advance to ensure I can get the times and restaurants that I want.