NY Times Article

[marieps]

17 minutes ago, Redtravel said:

NYTimes doesn't publish without carefully checking out sources.

C'mon.  Ever hear of Christopher Steele?  

[Pickels]

On 1/6/2022 at 1:55 PM, Bo1953 said:

Well, just well, he was very much enjoying his sailing until contracting C-19 and had to move from his Concierge Cabin to a port hole with no fresh air. By no fresh air I take it he wanted an IV where the window opens.

 

While possible at his point of purchase, I have yet to hear any travel provider hawking a larger cabin 'just in case' one contracts C-19 for the larger space to quarantine/isolate...

 

His experience is so vastly different than what others have posted here.... not that I doubt him, overall, but find it difficult to agree on all points written about, based on other reports.

 

But be that as it may, it is good that he was not convinced to take the Iconic Suite, can you imagine the horror of being relegated to a port hole cabin to quarantine/isolate??? 😁

 

bon voyage

Yikes!  Spend $10,000 for a suite and then get relegated to steerage for quarantine 🙁

[Educators2]

I am a NYTimes subscriber and did not see any “fake news” or inappropriate reporting in the print edition article about cruising in today’s Business Section. We have been on close to 30 cruises and would not cruise now because of the rampant virus. If you choose to cruise knowing current conditions, you have the freedom to do so. However, the article states the facts of what is happening on ships when a person tests positive. The long threads from cruisers on the Celebrity forum who are in “isolation” cabins repeat the same information as this article reports. I did not find the NYTimes article hyperbolic at all. Even the Today Show this morning reported on cruising during these trying times of Covid giving weight to both sides.

[Croooser]

IMHO. Definitely had a negative bias.

 

Examples:

• Emphasizing that those on board were surprised that there were some positive virus tests. This should not surprise anyone and the Times should not support that notion.

• Supported the notion that the ship needs to publish daily tallies of cases. Why? What would it change? Precautions are already in place. Note that the article glossed over the actual % of positive tests to the total onboard population. Saying that it is <1%  would not fit the agenda of the article. Imagine a headline that says "Despite the ongoing pandemic, Cruise Ships are sailing almost 99% infection free." 
• Gave only passing mention of the fact that hardly anyone, who has recently tested positive, has become seriously ill.
• Failed to provide a balanced view by interviewing someone who enjoyed their cruise.
• Or someone who feels that despite being required to quarantine, the cruise line handled the situation equitably - e.g. issuing FCC for period quarantined.

One could easily author an article with the opposite bias emphasizing how the cruise industry has risen from the ashes by instituting precautions and policies that have all but eliminated serious illness despite a very small % of positive tests.

 

But then..that would not fit the "attack and cast blame" model of journalism and media. The comments seem to confirm that they are playing to their loyal audience.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Croooser

[Bo1953]

2 hours ago, Pickels said:

Yikes!  Spend $10,000 for a suite and then get relegated to steerage for quarantine 🙁

Yeppers, that is the policy or so I believe UNLESS one can pull the "I Am in The Iconic Suite" card... LOL

 

In health and bon voyage

[Fly and Sail]

2 hours ago, Pickels said:

Yikes!  Spend $10,000 for a suite and then get relegated to steerage for quarantine 🙁

 

They better be refunding the entire cost of the sailing.

[Redking]

His instagram feed makes for interesting reading https://instagram.com/traveltradeinsider?utm_medium=copy_link NOT! When I read his comments on the Celebrity Cruises account new year greeting post, I thought what a plonker and it seems I was right. Maybe he's hoping for compo in the Iconic Suite 🤣

[Miaminice]

Based on the reports I read from other infected individuals I am sure he added quite  a bit of drama.

one can only guess why… maybe $$$ 🙂

 

However, the protocols implemented by cruise lines were good but not good enough. Like it or not, refraining from wearing a mask, partying by the pool or the Martini Bar and Covid just don’t go along well. We all know that… but tend to push the though away because “it’s so much fun”.

 

Plus, any procedures on board can only as good as the people involved. Look at the way many people behave in ports! We’ve just returned from two weeks in Miami. The majority of people act as if there’s no virus at all. Bayside, Lincoln Road, Hollywood Broadwalk are like a zoo in the evenings. We left after a few minutes and enjoyed the view from our balcony.

The same people go on cruises. Tested or not, testing negative on embarkation day is not a guarantee for being safe.

 

We have been on two cruises in Europe with more stringent restrictions like masks (long before the now changed rules) social distancing etc.

Our cruises were fabulous and we felt safe. Would I cruise in the US now? Not really. But that’s a personal choice.

 

Anyway, if one is currently still willing to soothe the cruise withdrawal symptoms - OK. But then don’t expect do be transferred to a suite and to be treated like a king in case you test positive. FYI self proclaimed travel insider: if you decide to take a risk, live with the consequences. 🤷🏻Stop feeling entitled…

Edited January 8, 2022 by Miaminice

[TeeRick]

In general I am not a big fan of the NYT and I am not a subscriber.  But since the pandemic started, I have received an email every morning of their daily news feed.  It is free.  I have been quite impressed from day 1 with their COVID,  virus and vaccine coverage overall.  It has been accurate, balanced, factual and informative.  They have a couple of medical/scientific writers that are usually spot on in their reporting and assessments.

 

The article in question on this thread is not part of that.

Edited January 8, 2022 by TeeRick

[tonyinoc]

14 hours ago, Fly and Sail said:

 

They better be refunding the entire cost of the sailing.

I believe are you refunded the pro rated amount. which is completely fair

[tonyinoc]

9 hours ago, Redking said:

His instagram feed makes for interesting reading https://instagram.com/traveltradeinsider?utm_medium=copy_link NOT! When I read his comments on the Celebrity Cruises account new year greeting post, I thought what a plonker and it seems I was right. Maybe he's hoping for compo in the Iconic Suite 🤣

I had to laugh - look at me treated like a prisoner, while he posted a picture of his steak and fries 🙂 

[Julma]

4 minutes ago, tonyinoc said:

I believe are you refunded the pro rated amount. which is completely fair

I think if may be in the form of a FCC. 

[LXA350]

RCL group and also others are failing at the moment and did not want to prepare for anotherand hopefully last winter where COVID will dominant due to greediness and when reading the posts of Michael Bayley some weeks ago ignorance that fits to a lot of the clientele with th attitude "I am vaccinated I don't need to wear a mask or take any precaucions". 

 

Under the current circumstances it is not possible to sail at close to full capacity and not to obey social distancing rules which would also include all staff members to continue to have their own cabins and so on. When the cruiselines started sailing including X on the Apex or Millenium in Summer at low capacities and all the precaucions, even then they had a few COVID cases each week. Even under Delta and before Omikron came along the known factors that during winter time cases go up as people are more inside etc you will have rising cases nothing was done except in contrary to lift always more restrictions onboard and from what I read even if restrictions were on paper they were not implemented properly onboard. Bottom line, shame on RCL Group!

[Bo1953]

19 hours ago, Fly and Sail said:

 

They better be refunding the entire cost of the sailing.

Not at all, yet possibly through travel insurance...

 

I do understand that there is a daily per diem given for being in quarantine, but do not know for sure it that is in 'cash' or FCC or ???

 

In health and bon voyage

[nocl]

21 hours ago, Pickels said:

Yikes!  Spend $10,000 for a suite and then get relegated to steerage for quarantine 🙁

Well they do get credit for each day in quarantine, so the amount spent is much less and only for the days before quarantine.

[nocl]

3 hours ago, LXA350 said:

RCL group and also others are failing at the moment and did not want to prepare for anotherand hopefully last winter where COVID will dominant due to greediness and when reading the posts of Michael Bayley some weeks ago ignorance that fits to a lot of the clientele with th attitude "I am vaccinated I don't need to wear a mask or take any precaucions". 

 

Under the current circumstances it is not possible to sail at close to full capacity and not to obey social distancing rules which would also include all staff members to continue to have their own cabins and so on. When the cruiselines started sailing including X on the Apex or Millenium in Summer at low capacities and all the precaucions, even then they had a few COVID cases each week. Even under Delta and before Omikron came along the known factors that during winter time cases go up as people are more inside etc you will have rising cases nothing was done except in contrary to lift always more restrictions onboard and from what I read even if restrictions were on paper they were not implemented properly onboard. Bottom line, shame on RCL Group!

What they did was get complacent, along with many other parts of society around the world.  After all the restart went through the summer and even through the delta variant peak without even a hiccup.  That resulted in both the cruise lines and the cruising public thinking that cruising could go forward with the existing protocols, after all they went through several months and the delta peak just fine.

 

Omicron is a whole different situation, and the world found out that it spread quite easily everywhere, in spite of the same protocols that had been working fairly well.

 

The good news is the wave should be over in a couple of months.

[traveltradeinsider]

In response to some of the comments, I am Richard Lewis and was featured in the article. I am Chairman and CEO of the UK base travel company Savile Row Travel. It’s not online fully as we completed the acquisition at the end of last year and are making announcements very shortly. In relation to the article, please let me set the record straight I am a big cruise fan and this trip was booked 2 years ago as a big family holiday. We booked and paid for the rooms we had. We are on a B2B cruise over Christmas and New Year. I personally am Elite status with Celebrity. I felt symptoms into our second week and presented myself as I thought that’s the best thing to do. However, this is where the transparency from Celebrity started to erode. I was told I would immediately have to pack my cabin and relocate to Deck 3, the initial reason given was it was near medical, I challenged and said the symptoms weren’t that bad I was then told it was because the air is cleaner down there, again this goes against the HVAC system they shout so loudly about on their website, finally they start saying that actually it is CDC protocols. When asked they could not produce the document or guidance. I did move and apart from being separated from family it suddenly felt like you weren’t valued, you weren’t given a choice of food and when it arrived it was cold and not particularly pleasant. The point in the article I was trying to stress but was lost is the transparency of actual case numbers. During our first week, the captain came over very early to say there was 2 cases and we didn’t hear from him again. By the second week we noticed a very distinct shift in staff mentality. Now into the second week again the captain announce 5 cases and the doctor had told me there was 16, two days later he announced there was a few more cases again the doctor had told me there was 62 cases. Therefore my frustration is they aren’t being clear to allow people to make better decisions. Myself an family were aware of the risks however had we known that we would have to quarantine on deck 3 we likely would have cancelled. From reading the various comments across social media lots and lots of people are booking bigger rooms and suites thinking that is where they would quarantine and Celebrity don’t tell you otherwise. I have called their UK and US office several times to ask what happens if you test positive onboard, not once has anyone said you are moved to Deck 3. Personally and I have spoken to others now found being in that cabin worsened the symptoms and made me feel worse with no fresh air and constant air conditioning. For the record the quarantine hotel after was a shambles too, room stank of weed, toilet blocked with sanitary wear and hideous stains on the wall. Hopefully this clarifies and happy to answer any questions. 

[Heidi pour another Beer]

Thank you for sharing and I appreciate your honesty. I wish you and your family a speedy recovery.

[traveltradeinsider]

On 1/8/2022 at 2:02 PM, Miaminice said:

Based on the reports I read from other infected individuals I am sure he added quite  a bit of drama.

one can only guess why… maybe $$$ 🙂

 

However, the protocols implemented by cruise lines were good but not good enough. Like it or not, refraining from wearing a mask, partying by the pool or the Martini Bar and Covid just don’t go along well. We all know that… but tend to push the though away because “it’s so much fun”.

 

Plus, any procedures on board can only as good as the people involved. Look at the way many people behave in ports! We’ve just returned from two weeks in Miami. The majority of people act as if there’s no virus at all. Bayside, Lincoln Road, Hollywood Broadwalk are like a zoo in the evenings. We left after a few minutes and enjoyed the view from our balcony.

The same people go on cruises. Tested or not, testing negative on embarkation day is not a guarantee for being safe.

 

We have been on two cruises in Europe with more stringent restrictions like masks (long before the now changed rules) social distancing etc.

Our cruises were fabulous and we felt safe. Would I cruise in the US now? Not really. But that’s a personal choice.

 

Anyway, if one is currently still willing to soothe the cruise withdrawal symptoms - OK. But then don’t expect do be transferred to a suite and to be treated like a king in case you test positive. FYI self proclaimed travel insider: if you decide to take a risk, live with the consequences. 🤷🏻Stop feeling entitled…

No entitlement required here @Miaminice we knew the risks, and the point I was simply trying to make is there has to be more transparency from the lines and Captain. Also, by the way the handle quarantine they will actually put people off presenting themselves with Covid therefore increasing the risk to other staff and passengers. The Captain announced 5 cases on board yet the Doctor told me moments before there was 16, then 2 days later he said there was a few more cases and in fact the doctor had told me there was now 62 and they were incredibly stretched and running out of tests hence they then moved all those requiring departure tests to dock side. Some of those then found out they were positive at the airport prior to heading home. 

[kearney]

2 hours ago, traveltradeinsider said:

In response to some of the comments, I am Richard Lewis and was featured in the article. I am Chairman and CEO of the UK base travel company Savile Row Travel. It’s not online fully as we completed the acquisition at the end of last year and are making announcements very shortly. In relation to the article, please let me set the record straight I am a big cruise fan and this trip was booked 2 years ago as a big family holiday. We booked and paid for the rooms we had. We are on a B2B cruise over Christmas and New Year. I personally am Elite status with Celebrity. I felt symptoms into our second week and presented myself as I thought that’s the best thing to do. However, this is where the transparency from Celebrity started to erode. I was told I would immediately have to pack my cabin and relocate to Deck 3, the initial reason given was it was near medical, I challenged and said the symptoms weren’t that bad I was then told it was because the air is cleaner down there, again this goes against the HVAC system they shout so loudly about on their website, finally they start saying that actually it is CDC protocols. When asked they could not produce the document or guidance. I did move and apart from being separated from family it suddenly felt like you weren’t valued, you weren’t given a choice of food and when it arrived it was cold and not particularly pleasant. The point in the article I was trying to stress but was lost is the transparency of actual case numbers. During our first week, the captain came over very early to say there was 2 cases and we didn’t hear from him again. By the second week we noticed a very distinct shift in staff mentality. Now into the second week again the captain announce 5 cases and the doctor had told me there was 16, two days later he announced there was a few more cases again the doctor had told me there was 62 cases. Therefore my frustration is they aren’t being clear to allow people to make better decisions. Myself an family were aware of the risks however had we known that we would have to quarantine on deck 3 we likely would have cancelled. From reading the various comments across social media lots and lots of people are booking bigger rooms and suites thinking that is where they would quarantine and Celebrity don’t tell you otherwise. I have called their UK and US office several times to ask what happens if you test positive onboard, not once has anyone said you are moved to Deck 3. Personally and I have spoken to others now found being in that cabin worsened the symptoms and made me feel worse with no fresh air and constant air conditioning. For the record the quarantine hotel after was a shambles too, room stank of weed, toilet blocked with sanitary wear and hideous stains on the wall. Hopefully this clarifies and happy to answer any questions. 

It appears that where you are quarantined differs by ship. Recent Equinox sailing had people on Deck 6 with verandas. I just canceled our Feb 14 sailing... less out of fear for contracting what seems to be evolving into an unpleasant but less serious illness...but more out of fear of being stuck in isolation in an ocean view cabin... Plus the thought of masking indoors every place ...after not having to do so where I live since early '20... and paying for that privilege... seemed wise to move things off a bit. I am sorry for your experience. I am wondering if they selected Dec 3 due to closeness to kitchen as well as Medical?

[AC Stew]

traveltradeinsider: It's challenging to follow one massive run-on paragraph. If you want us to pay full attention, you'll need to break up your narrative into a more "readable" format.

[TLCOhio]

3 hours ago, traveltradeinsider said:

Let me set the record straight . . . this is where the transparency from Celebrity started to erode. I was told I would immediately have to pack my cabin and relocate to Deck 3, the initial reason given was it was near medical, I challenged and said the symptoms weren’t that bad I was then told it was because the air is cleaner down there, again this goes against the HVAC system they shout so loudly about on their website, finally they start saying that actually it is CDC protocols. During our first week, the captain came over very early to say there was 2 cases and we didn’t hear from him again. By the second week we noticed a very distinct shift in staff mentality. Now into the second week again the captain announce 5 cases and the doctor had told me there was 16, two days later he announced there was a few more cases again the doctor had told me there was 62 cases. 

 

Super appreciate this added background and details from Mr. Lewis.  Yes, it is a long paragraph, but the specifics are very, very important.  To me, the most important word and value mentioned by this experience travel veteran was "TRANSPARENCY".  That's what is so important as this evolving and changing condition requires from the cruise lines leaders.  Carnival has probably been the worst during this whole situation.  Compared to the other two major companies, my view (based on listening to the quarterly financial, Wall Street briefings) is that Royal Caribbean has been better for honesty and trying to be somewhat open about some of these situations.  Not perfect, but RCL has been better than Carnival, etc. 

 

From the New York Times last week, I shared on another CC Bcard that they had this headline: “Cases Rise, Criticism Mounts, but Ships Keep Cruising" with this sub-headline: "One day after the C.D.C. advised against all travel on cruise ships, thousands of cruisers partied like it was 2019. But worries about onboard policies — and frustration over quarantines — are rising.”

 

Here are some of their story highlights: “Even as case numbers rise, and criticism mounts about the safety of cruising and over cruise line protocols in reporting cases to passengers, ships keep sailing and guests keep embarking, adamant that the onboard environment is safe because of stringent health and safety requirements, including pre-departure testing and vaccine mandates. On Wednesday, Royal Caribbean and Norwegian Cruise Line canceled several voyages in response to the growing number of coronavirus cases onboard some of their ships.   The cruise industry’s trade group, Cruise Lines International Association, called the C.D.C.’s warning 'perplexing,' and said that cases identified on ships 'consistently make up a slim minority of the total population on board — far fewer than on land.' ”

 

This is lengthy and comprehensive reporting has additional details that might be of interest:  "Some passengers are starting to question the effectiveness of health and safety protocols, and say they aren’t being informed of the full extent of coronavirus cases on board. They say they learn of the positive cases only after returning home and would have been able to make more informed decisions about their behavior and participation in activities, if they had been made more aware.  Most major cruise lines do not publicly announce the number of coronavirus cases on board their ships, but they are required to submit daily figures to the C.D.C. Currently, the agency is monitoring more than 90 cruise ships, because of reported cases that have reached the agency’s threshold for an investigation. For many, the idea of testing positive for the coronavirus on a cruise ship conjures up the horrors of the major outbreaks in the early stages of the pandemic, when thousands of people were confined to their rooms for endless days while the pandemic raged through the ships. But since more contagious variants like Delta and Omicron have emerged, causing cases to increase among passengers and crew, guests have started to complain about quarantine conditions."

 

A number of recent cruise passengers were interviewed for this story and it reflects the way certain of these things are being handled now on ships.  This includes ways in which people are being quarantined on ships and the lack of upfront and real-time disclosures as to the nature of infections during such sailings. Some were treated well on these sailings, others less so.  

 

Full story at:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/06/travel/coronavirus-cruise-ships-omicron.html

 

As to the field/credibility of "journalism", I have had experiences in working both sides, for and against, in and with those in this field/business.  My view?  There is always the question of whether when someone is quoted as to whether or not these sources cited are honestly representative of an overall situation . . . OR . . . being just one, out-of-context, person who is unhappy and/or with an "agenda".  Some writers do cite a source to fit their personal opinion, pre-determined story spin.  Others are very professional in fully researching and reporting things in a proper context.  Journalism is part "art" and part science, even from a large, international newspaper such as the NY Times. As a paid subscriber to the NT Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, etc., I do not agree with all of their editorial judgements and news priorities.  BUT, I do not "broad-brush" that all of their staff and editors are wrong and always biased.  Read and access multiple sources, realizing that there are many shades of gray relating to these complicated and challenging issues.  

 

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Sydney to NZ/Auckland Adventure, live/blog 2014 sampling/details with many exciting visuals and key highlights.  On page 23, post #571, see a complete index for all of the pictures, postings.  Now at 234,657 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

[Ginnyfyr]

On 1/7/2022 at 12:56 PM, FrederickPIII said:

You should be able to access this link:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cruise-ships-are-still-sailing-as-cases-rise-and-criticism-mounts/ar-AASuudc?li=BBnb7Kz

Thank you for posting that! 

[CroozFanatic]

...uh...this is about what I would expect from the NY Times.