What type of "Service Dog" is this?

[AustinCruise]

My wife’s a psychiatrist. She gets regular requests for emotional support animal letters.  She used to approve a very few, but so many said their real reason was to save money on boarding, or not having to pay airlines, or get out of pet deposits that she has totally stopped.  Individuals say no problem, can get it online for a few hundred. 

[lovesthebeach2]

2 hours ago, Mabbiez said:

I have a trained service dog who will go on a cruise with me this spring. Feeding a dog from the table at a restaurant is a big no no. My dog is trained to sit under the table or behind my legs while at a table (sometimes it depends on the type of legs the table has). My dog would never ever bark or bite at someone. If a service dog bites at someone that is a sign they need to be washed/retired as a service dog. (That is, if it's a true service dog to begin with)

A few years ago we were on a cruise with two blind people and each had a beautiful large German Shepard with them. Both dogs sat completely quiet under the table (we were next to them). We never heard a peep from them nor did they acknowledge anyone they passed. They were true service dogs. 

[Pratique]

31 minutes ago, MichaelCMTX said:

I'm with you, if the dog is quiet and not causing any problems  - no big deal.

 

If my enjoyment of a cruise is going to be compromised by someone else's well-behaved dog...

I agree but would also add "if the owner is quiet and not causing any problems." And quietly hoping that the owner has liability insurance for the dog, just in case.

[pcur]

7 hours ago, jean87510 said:

Before you contact national news, your congressman, the White House and RCCL, you may want to read about emotional support animals.  And also hope these people dont sue you for taking their pictures.  

 

If it bothers you so much, maybe reading or doing sudoku may help.  Or focus on chair hogs.

It's not the dog and it's support function I object to, IT'S HAVING IT IN THE DINING ROOM WHILE I'M EATING, MAKING NOISE AND BOTHERING PEOPLE!!

 

A well trained support or guide dog is taught to remain quiet and be on alert to it's owner.  This one I'm referring to (previously posted about here) is obnoxious.  

 

There are ways to handle this where (excuse my American take on this) majority rules.  Do NOT disturb MANY people for the sake of TWO people.

 

I would imagine the Hotel Director or Food and Beverage Manager would be more creative about a solution if contacted.

[DeputyDawg46]

On our recent December 2021 Christmas and New Years cruise on the Oasis of the Sea the Captain's girlfriend from Florida had her dog on the ship and it barked and everyone was petting it.  It for sure was no service animal as she was without it beside her most of the times we saw her.  But being the Captain's girlfriend I guess RCI rules don't apply.  Of course this being the same Captain that I have a photo of standing and talking to a individual on the Promenade - Deck 5 for over 20 minutes with neither of them having a mask on.

[pcur]

1 minute ago, DeputyDawg46 said:

On our recent December 2021 Christmas and New Years cruise on the Oasis of the Sea the Captain's girlfriend from Florida had her dog on the ship and it barked and everyone was petting it.  It for sure was no service animal as she was without it beside her most of the times we saw her.  But being the Captain's girlfriend I guess RCI rules don't apply.  Of course this being the same Captain that I have a photo of standing and talking to a individual on the Promenade - Deck 5 for over 20 minutes with neither of them having a mask on.

Again, a quiet conversation with the Hotel Manager might have helped (in retrospect).  That person is VERY high up on the food chain in management, too, and VERY concerned about the quality of experience the passengers have.

 

 

[hometoosoon]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Actually, you are both correct.  The dog in a stroller eating from the table could be a true service dog, just a poorly behaved one (with poorly behaved owners), and one that should not be allowed on the ship or in public.

 

As for your last sentence, not-enough, while that is true the vast majority of the time in public, it is not always true.

Actually no, a working/service dog must be on the floor. No service dog works from a stroller.  Even a ADA protected service dog can be asked to leave a business if they are disruptive. 

[chengkp75]

Just now, hometoosoon said:

Actually no, a working/service dog must be on the floor. No service dog works from a stroller.  Even a ADA protected service dog can be asked to leave a business if they are disruptive. 

As I said, a service dog is allowed to be in the owner's arms, as diabetic alert dogs need to be near the owner's breath.  And, it could well have been a service dog that provides things like epileptic alerts, that was not trained by a professional (they don't have to be, and I've seen epilepsy or autism dogs that taught themselves to alert their owners), and therefore never received training in remaining on the floor.  As I said, it could be a legitimate service dog (by the ADA's definition), but one that is poorly behaved (as trained), and one that should be asked to leave, but just the fact of it being in a stroller does not mean it is not a service dog.  It would be a service dog that is not allowed everywhere in public.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

6 hours ago, jean87510 said:

If you take my picture on a cruise ship, then please allow me to take a picture or video of you and post as well.  Yours would be titled Sea Day with nothing to do but post pictures of a fellow cruiser who disagreed with me on Cruise Critic.  Mine would be Entitled Karen.

I suggest you learn what your rights are while you're in public.   It's a good thing to know. 

[xpcdoojk]

The yappy Yorkie was on our Allure cruise along with 2 other dogs.  That were not for sure traditional support dogs.  

 

I have had a Yorkie in the past and it was not a service dog but it was better behaved than the the one in the Diamond Lounge with me.  😇

[leisuretraveler223]

11 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

I suggest you learn what your rights are while you're in public.   It's a good thing to know. 

 

Heavy editing on this thread today!

 

[time4u2go]

4 hours ago, CaroleSS said:

Because of HIPAA laws....here are the rules.....

 

In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?

 

In Florida (where I live) passing off your dog as a service dog is a second-degree misdemeanor and can be forced to pay a $500 fine and up to 60 days in jail.

 

Since many sailings originate from Florida, I have to wonder if the laws of Florida would apply? Could a fraudulent owner be detained (most likely) after disembarking?

 

Alas, all this discussion is moot as RCI and many other businesses just look the other way as they don't want to be bothered. (Heavy sign) All these owners make it difficult on true owners who NEED the help.

I thought HIPAA only applies to the release of medical information by medical providers (and some of their associated businesses).  I didn't think it applied to asking medical questions of an individual.

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by time4u2go

[njkruzer]

On the 12/30 Jewel cruise that ended on Sunday a couple, had 2 cute little white dogs, pomeranian (?). Every time I saw they were being carried,  though I understand sometimes they were not.  I reviewed Royal's policy and went GS.  I got a confused response, an "I don't know anything. "  Then I sent M Bayley an email. The next day Hotel Director reached out.  We spoke.   He insisted they had all the right paperwork.   Told him that paperwork can be bought on line.  Royal had set a policy, ignored it, and had opened a can of worms.   Royal needs to get it's act together.  The next day when I saw him he told me that he forwarded my thoughts to Miami.  Don't know if anything will happen.

[chengkp75]

4 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

I thought HIPAA only applies to the release of medical information by medical providers (and some of their associated businesses).  I didn't think it applied to asking medical questions of an individual.

 

This is correct.  The reason a business can only ask the two questions listed is found in the ADA not HIPAA.  It is because it could cause embarrassment to the disabled person to have to disclose the disability.

[time4u2go]

3 minutes ago, njkruzer said:

On the 12/30 Jewel cruise that ended on Sunday a couple, had 2 cute little white dogs, pomeranian (?). Every time I saw they were being carried,  though I understand sometimes they were not.  I reviewed Royal's policy and went GS.  I got a confused response, an "I don't know anything. "  Then I sent M Bayley an email. The next day Hotel Director reached out.  We spoke.   He insisted they had all the right paperwork.   Told him that paperwork can be bought on line.  Royal had set a policy, ignored it, and had opened a can of worms.   Royal needs to get it's act together.  The next day when I saw him he told me that he forwarded my thoughts to Miami.  Don't know if anything will happen.

Do you know that they weren't service animals?  Those are allowed.

[njkruzer]

3 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

Do you know that they weren't service animals?  Those are allowed.

Of course I don't "know" but a reasonable guess.  

[Another_Critic]

I have a self-trained "service" cat.  She smacks me when the alarm goes off.  🙂

[dahirsh]

22 minutes ago, njkruzer said:

On the 12/30 Jewel cruise that ended on Sunday a couple, had 2 cute little white dogs, pomeranian (?). Every time I saw they were being carried,  though I understand sometimes they were not.  I reviewed Royal's policy and went GS.  I got a confused response, an "I don't know anything. "  Then I sent M Bayley an email. The next day Hotel Director reached out.  We spoke.   He insisted they had all the right paperwork.   Told him that paperwork can be bought on line.  Royal had set a policy, ignored it, and had opened a can of worms.   Royal needs to get it's act together.  The next day when I saw him he told me that he forwarded my thoughts to Miami.  Don't know if anything will happen.

 

there is no "right paperwork" for a service animal.  There is no registration or proof of training.  And if someone is determined to pass their ESA or pet off as a service animal there is not much that can be done.  It might be against the law, but considering there are only two questions you can ask the owner, all they need to do is lie twice and discussion is over.

 

[Pratique]

6 minutes ago, dahirsh said:

 

there is no "right paperwork" for a service animal.  There is no registration or proof of training.  And if someone is determined to pass their ESA or pet off as a service animal there is not much that can be done.  It might be against the law, but considering there are only two questions you can ask the owner, all they need to do is lie twice and discussion is over.

 

If these questions are not appropriately answered, the business may exclude the animal, but not the person. This is where it can get tricky if the owner is lying. If the business excludes the dog and the owner files a legal claim against the business, then they would need to provide more evidence.

[radarcruiser]

Oh, how I have missed the service dog threads!  This makes me think we may be getting close to being back to normal.  

[Pratique]

45 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This is correct.  The reason a business can only ask the two questions listed is found in the ADA not HIPAA.  It is because it could cause embarrassment to the disabled person to have to disclose the disability.

It's true that the questions could cause embarrassment but I think the underlying reason is that businesses cannot discriminate based on disability, so a question about disability is irrelevant. The only relevant question is to ascertain that the dog is a service animal.

[Seville2Cabo]

So if there are 2 dogs, do they work in shifts or perform different services?  

 

Personally I don't care.  We would never take our dog on a cruise as it would not be fair to the dog.  But we do travel with our dog (just a pet) and do take her to restaurants fairly often when allowed.  Usually no one knows she is there unless they see us walk in our out.  She's not on the table or licking the plates, although many places bring her water or a few snacks.  She's better behaved than many other customers.  

[CPT Trips]

1 hour ago, njkruzer said:

On the 12/30 Jewel cruise that ended on Sunday a couple, had 2 cute little white dogs, pomeranian (?). Every time I saw they were being carried,  though I understand sometimes they were not.  I reviewed Royal's policy and went GS.  I got a confused response, an "I don't know anything. "  Then I sent M Bayley an email. The next day Hotel Director reached out.  We spoke.   He insisted they had all the right paperwork.   Told him that paperwork can be bought on line.  Royal had set a policy, ignored it, and had opened a can of worms.   Royal needs to get it's act together.  The next day when I saw him he told me that he forwarded my thoughts to Miami.  Don't know if anything will happen.

There is no paperwork for a service dog . . . there is paperwork required by many countries for a dog to enter that country.

 

55 minutes ago, Another_Critic said:

I have a self-trained "service" cat.  She smacks me when the alarm goes off.  🙂

 

😉 In the likely event some reader here thinks you are serious, let me point out that there is no such thing as a service cat. To obtain the title service animal, it isn’t canine or equine. 🙄

 

39 minutes ago, dahirsh said:

 

there is no "right paperwork" for a service animal.  There is no registration or proof of training.  And if someone is determined to pass their ESA or pet off as a service animal there is not much that can be done.  It might be against the law, but considering there are only two questions you can ask the owner, all they need to do is lie twice and discussion is over.

 

Yep! And that presumes that a business has the stones to ask those questions.

[dahirsh]

We used to ask "is that an emotional support animal?"  caught several people that way.  But that was a few years ago.

[Scoobydobe7]

1 hour ago, Another_Critic said:

I have a self-trained "service" cat.  She smacks me when the alarm goes off.  🙂

Mine smacks me when I am in his spot on the bed😂😂