Has Infinity summer been cancelled

[foodsvcmgr]

Since Summit sails to Greenland I would assume she could also be a compatible substitute for Antarctica if need be.

Next Winter she is just doing short Caribbean cruises from Florida so she could probably be pulled to South America.

Those of us already booked on Infinity could just be moved over to the same cabin in the different ship, but probably just wishful thinking……too simple a solution.

[terrydtx]

We had booked two Europe cruises on the Infinity for 2021 that were eventually canceled. We booked them onboard the Infinity in 2019 for Sky Suites after we saw how she was going to be Revolutionized in 2020 with Retreat improvements.  In 2019 she badly needed the upgrade, and we would not have booked for 2021 if she wasn't already scheduled for the 2020 dry docking. We knew the Infinity wasn't getting the refit early on in 2021 and we were happy when the cruises got canceled as we got the 125% FCC.

[TeeRick]

@Spif Barwunkel it is really possible that Celebrity has too much ship passenger capacity for the eventual post-pandemic world. I really do not see them renovating Infinity and Constellation when capital is so tight and they are spending their limited dollars on E-Class.  Maybe they will renovate Reflection next if I had to bet on one older ship.  They could sell these two M-class ships as has been rumored for years and use the earned capital on E-class builds and S-Class renovations.  But buyers and cash for ships are very limited.    I think perhaps your mystery cruises will happen later this year and we will see Infinity for awhile anyway.

[BigAl94]

She's on the move to Piraeus

[rmalbers]

Ok, I'll throw my guess into the mix:  WIth this latest stuff going on X is probably just limiting the bookings until they have a better idea what cruising will be like this spring/summer.  I think X is going to have/having a real problem with all the FCC moving thru the system.  Also, they probably need to get a better idea of pricing before open things back up.  Also, they still have the gathering of employees issue.  The most profitable ships are the newer, bigger ships, they run more efficiently. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by rmalbers

[MattandTony1]

So I asked the question on Twitter I know it’s not much info and I know it could be incorrect.

Interesting wording reviewing the Infinity summer sailings. 

[york survey]

5 minutes ago, rmalbers said:

Ok, I'll throw my guess into the mix:  WIth this latest stuff going on X is probably just limiting the bookings until they have a better idea what cruising will be like this spring/summer.  I think X is going to have/having a real problem with all the FCC moving thru the system.  Also, they probably need to get a better idea of pricing before open things back up.  Also, they still have the gathering of employees issue.  The most profitable ships are the newer, bigger ships, they run more efficiently. 

I was on the same page at one point but if they want to restrict bookings why leave the cheapest ones open?   

[york survey]

4 minutes ago, MattandTony1 said:

So I asked the question on Twitter I know it’s not much info and I know it could be incorrect.

Interesting wording reviewing the Infinity summer sailings. 

Thanks.  I think we have an answer but not yet an outcome.  I hope she still sails fingers crossed

[Definitas]

On 1/11/2022 at 3:38 PM, upwarduk said:

Infinity need more than hull painting.

It was planned for FV rooms to be upgraded to suites.

 

 

 

We love those corner FVs and have been lucky enough to have one several times (as a couple). I would rather sail in an old FV than an IV on an Edge class

[KY Deb]

We have a FV booked for our 10/31 Infinity cruise. Am so looking forward to it  😳. I sure hope it goes. I want to go to Lisbon and there are very few other itineraries that include it.   I’ve spent the afternoon trying to find alternatives.  Nothing is jumping out at me.   Does anyone know if Celebrity gives some sort of compensation to book an alternative if they cancel your cruise? 

[zitsky]

On 1/11/2022 at 10:19 AM, york survey said:

 

You maybe right but I don't think yet. All the winter 2022/23 South America is still bookable on her.

 

My guess is that there is not enough demand for all the ships coming to Europe this year and they want to increase capacity. So have decided not to bring Infinity back into service yet.  Be a shame but makes some sense.

 

Time will tell

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure when it starts, but the late Dec 2023 Patagonia cruise is on the Eclipse.  I was surprised when I saw that, because I understood that Infinity usually does that route.

[barbette165]

One possibility is that they are revisiting the move to home-porting in Ravenna. At about 90 miles from Venice, it is a bit of a stretch to describe the port as Venice(Ravenna). The roll-calls for these sailings don't seem to be very active and what little is there seems to be concerning "How do we get to Ravenna?", so maybe bookings are light. Marghera in the Venice lagoon has been chosen by other cruise lines, but a simple "delete Ravenna, insert Marghera" probably isn't possible due to berth availability.

[Spif Barwunkel]

52 minutes ago, barbette165 said:

One possibility is that they are revisiting the move to home-porting in Ravenna. At about 90 miles from Venice, it is a bit of a stretch to describe the port as Venice(Ravenna). The roll-calls for these sailings don't seem to be very active and what little is there seems to be concerning "How do we get to Ravenna?", so maybe bookings are light. Marghera in the Venice lagoon has been chosen by other cruise lines, but a simple "delete Ravenna, insert Marghera" probably isn't possible due to berth availability.

Actually, I want to get from Ravenna to Venice city center for three nights post-cruise and departure from Venice airport for return home. Those arrangements were made prior to the port change. It would be nice if I could receive some direction on that.  Will Celebrity provide transport or will it require private transportation? Would like to get a definitive answer on that from X.

[frankh1969]

I hope they decide soon. My final payment is due on the 15th. Hate to pay final booking and then they decide to cancel are April 15th cruise out of Lisbon.

[Stockjock]

As I mentioned before, Pullmantur had publicly announced that 2 "constellation class" celebrity ships would be joining them, after they scrapped 2 of their 3 ship fleet.  Since Summit and Millennium had been revolutionized and Constellation and Infinity had not, it stood to reason that they would be going over to the reorganized Pullmantur.  Also, Pullmantur's Horizon was not scrapped and is still anchored off the coast of Greece for some reason.

But shortly thereafter, Celebrity denied this and Pullmantur backtracked on their press release.

I do believe that those 2 ships were scheduled to go to Pullmantur.  Obviously, since then, the pandemic got a lot worse and it's very possible that Pullmantur is gone forever, although there is some chance it could reappear.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe that Infinity and Constellation are part of Celebrity's long-term plan.  They're old ships.  They're not up to Celebrity's standards.  They're not revolutionized.  They're likely costly to operate and maintain, and no one will pay top dollar to sail on those old, non-updated ships.  Revolutionizing them would cost quite a lot, and obviously money is tight given the state of cruising.  Plus they have overcapacity as things currently stand.

Is it the beginning of the end for these 2 ships?  Maybe and maybe not.  I can tell you this much, if I was running Celebrity and was looking to cut costs and increase revenues, they'd be as good as gone.

[zitsky]

You say maybe or maybe not.  Is there another option?  😆

[canderson]

13 hours ago, TeeRick said:

@Spif Barwunkel it is really possible that Celebrity has too much ship passenger capacity for the eventual post-pandemic world. I really do not see them renovating Infinity and Constellation when capital is so tight and they are spending their limited dollars on E-Class. 

Need to draw a distinction here.  You use the word 'renovation', but I suspect you mean 'revolutionized'. 

 

Don't forget, Constellation was due for the revolution less than 60 days after the March 2020 shutdown.  I doubt that there was originally a plan to sell her anytime soon after that much had been invested.

 

Constellation did in fact undergo quite a renovation while it was in dry dock during July 2021.  It didn't get the 'revolution' treatment, but all public spaces and all of the cabins we saw had been gone over quite carefully.  All soft goods (upholstery, carpet, drapes, bedspreads, the works) were replaced, bits and pieces mended/repaired to like-new all over the place.  Our butler accidentally left his own 'punch list' for all of his suites in one of the cupboards of our suite.  All of this came as quite a pleasant surprise as we had no idea that this was being accomplished in parallel with the major mechanical work that was being done in Cadiz.  Granted, much of the materiel may have been warehoused in anticipation of a revolutionizing job, but the labor alone to do this job must have been considerable. 

 

The major mechanical work alone brought Constellation up to snuff for a fair number of seasons to come, and the new furnishings and soft goods have the interior looking really, really good.

 

Now - if you were cash strapped and about to unload a ship to Pullmantur (or anyone else), would you go to all that expense right before doing so, or would you dump the problems (especially all of the cosmetic ones - Constellation wasn't in that bad a shape) on the next guy?

 

My guess is that when Pullmantur backed out, X decided to go ahead and put the old girl to rights again and get a few more good seasons out of her, and that this ship won't be on the auction block until X can get some of their $ back carrying passengers.  I don't think it's like a kitchen remodel where you might get your $ back out of it if you do it right before you sell your house... especially if you don't have the cash to do the remodel because you're already building a couple of new houses (E class).

 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by canderson
usual typoz

[Guppy99]

2 hours ago, zitsky said:

You say maybe or maybe not.  Is there another option?  😆

I think "I don't have a clue" is the most likely option.

[TeeRick]

8 hours ago, canderson said:

Need to draw a distinction here.  You use the word 'renovation', but I suspect you mean 'revolutionized'. 

 

Don't forget, Constellation was due for the revolution less than 60 days after the March 2020 shutdown.  I doubt that there was originally a plan to sell her anytime soon after that much had been invested.

 

Constellation did in fact undergo quite a renovation while it was in dry dock during July 2021.  It didn't get the 'revolution' treatment, but all public spaces and all of the cabins we saw had been gone over quite carefully.  All soft goods (upholstery, carpet, drapes, bedspreads, the works) were replaced, bits and pieces mended/repaired to like-new all over the place.  Our butler accidentally left his own 'punch list' for all of his suites in one of the cupboards of our suite.  All of this came as quite a pleasant surprise as we had no idea that this was being accomplished in parallel with the major mechanical work that was being done in Cadiz.  Granted, much of the materiel may have been warehoused in anticipation of a revolutionizing job, but the labor alone to do this job must have been considerable. 

 

The major mechanical work alone brought Constellation up to snuff for a fair number of seasons to come, and the new furnishings and soft goods have the interior looking really, really good.

 

Now - if you were cash strapped and about to unload a ship to Pullmantur (or anyone else), would you go to all that expense right before doing so, or would you dump the problems (especially all of the cosmetic ones - Constellation wasn't in that bad a shape) on the next guy?

 

My guess is that when Pullmantur backed out, X decided to go ahead and put the old girl to rights again and get a few more good seasons out of her, and that this ship won't be on the auction block until X can get some of their $ back carrying passengers.  I don't think it's like a kitchen remodel where you might get your $ back out of it if you do it right before you sell your house... especially if you don't have the cash to do the remodel because you're already building a couple of new houses (E class).

 

 

Yes I did mean the "Revolution" renovations and upgrades in my post.  In any case, in pre-pandemic days with the projected growth of the cruise industry and passenger base, there would always be a ready market for well maintained older ships like Infinity.  Now there is a struggle for just a few ships per cruise line to sail and at reduced capacity (self-imposed or otherwise).  Still little or no profit on sailings -and a lot of serious debt.  And new builds still sucking limited capital away. And smaller lines like Pullmantur not surviving or on the shelf for possible better days at some point.  IMO this all adds up to no market for older ships.

[terrydtx]

6 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Yes I did mean the "Revolution" renovations and upgrades in my post.  In any case, in pre-pandemic days with the projected growth of the cruise industry and passenger base, there would always be a ready market for well maintained older ships like Infinity.  Now there is a struggle for just a few ships per cruise line to sail and at reduced capacity (self-imposed or otherwise).  Still little or no profit on sailings -and a lot of serious debt.  And new builds still sucking limited capital away. And smaller lines like Pullmantur not surviving or on the shelf for possible better days at some point.  IMO this all adds up to no market for older ships.

You make a good assumption and perhaps these older ships will just get mothballed as maintaining non sailing ships over 2 years or more has been a huge cash drain. Several of Carnival's older ships ended up in the scrap heap in 2020 when there was no market for them. It is not looking like the remaining M class ships will ever get Revolutionized considering the current cash situation with X. I believe the S class ships may have a priority for Revolutionizing first.

Edited January 13, 2022 by terrydtx

[canderson]

2 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

IMO this all adds up to no market for older ships.

Agree.  Between that and what X just invested in Connie, a sale in the near term seems very unlikely.

 

Will be interesting to see where Infinity makes port in the future.  I'd be watching for any moves toward Gibralter before the next season starts.

[Spif Barwunkel]

Posts #40 & #42, excellent reminders of conversations and speculations regarding pre-pandemic conjecture about Celebrity's 'M' Class ships. Unfortunately, unless you are right there, it is difficult to know what transpires behind closed boardroom doors and during two-martini lunches.

 

Seems the themes are no different today. I realize that big business has a lot going on. More than we are privy to here on CC. Cruise lines have to take care of themselves in order to take care of their guests. Is there no time or inclination to keep passengers informed on the issues? Perhaps not. Maybe it can't be done. Back to those two-martini lunches...it's a sobering thought. 

[TeeRick]

14 minutes ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Back to those two-martini lunches...it's a sobering thought. 

Did you really say this?  LOL!😄

[Spif Barwunkel]

41 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Did you really say this?  LOL!😄

And I was sober when I said it!

[baabtx]

It all seems quite odd - this is all the sailings from April til June. When just last week you could find Balcony and above. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by baabtx
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