Has anyone have a +PCR and tried to come back to Canada?

[broberts]

Well it certainly has been clarified. Unfortunately not in a good way from my perspective.

 

"Based on your answers, you won’t be turned away at the land border, but you may be fined $5,000 per traveller (plus surcharges).

To avoid being fined, wait to enter Canada until the 15th day (starting January 15, 2022, 11th day) after your positive test result. If you had symptoms without a positive result, wait until the symptoms have ended and you have a valid negative pre-entry test result."

 

I still question the appropriateness of this. In fact I do wonder if there is not a potential constitutional challenge. Entering by private car and driving straight to ones place of quarantine poses no risk of spread. Effectively denying entry with such an outrageous fine potentially denies one medical care.

[Halo19]

I also don't like how it says you MAY be fined.

 

So why MAY I?  Why might I not?  Who decides this?  How do they decide this?

 

If they are just deciding willy nilly, I feel like due to our professions (but mostly my husbands), they would most likely let us through without the fine.

[K_e_short]

Just now, Halo19 said:

I also don't like how it says you MAY be fined.

 

So why MAY I?  Why might I not?  Who decides this?  How do they decide this?

 

If they are just deciding willy nilly, I feel like due to our professions (but mostly my husbands), they would most likely let us through without the fine.

 

I think that is a dangerous statement to say that based on your professions you'd be allowed to break the rules.

 

I think the "MAY" part is similar to what happened in November when the border opened and people started crossing into the U.S. but then didn't fill in the ArriveCan app on the way back.

Some were told to complete the app and come back. Some were fined. Some where put in quarantine.

 

[Halo19]

Just now, K_e_short said:

 

I think that is a dangerous statement to say that based on your professions you'd be allowed to break the rules.

 

I think the "MAY" part is similar to what happened in November when the border opened and people started crossing into the U.S. but then didn't fill in the ArriveCan app on the way back.

Some were told to complete the app and come back. Some were fined. Some where put in quarantine.

 

We aren't going to risk it, but because it doesn't clearly say you will be fined, I could definitely see them letting us pass through if they are only making random people pay like they had random people chosen for testing at the border.

[CKCruising]

1 hour ago, K_e_short said:

 

...

Do you have symptoms of Covid or tested positive within 14 days (10 days as of Jan 15th) - when you say yes it says you CAN NOT enter the country and if you do you MAY be fined $5000.

...

The positive test is new for sure.

 

I see:

"Based on your answers, you won’t be turned away at the land border, but you may be fined $5,000 per traveller (plus surcharges).To avoid being fined, wait to enter Canada until the 15th day (starting January 15, 2022, 11th day) after your positive test result. If you had symptoms without a positive result, wait until the symptoms have ended and you have a valid negative pre-entry test result."

 

That doesn't say CAN NOT enter the country.  You can enter the country.

[CKCruising]

I can't edit my post but I think the fines are new in the wizard, but have always existed.

Like K_E said, the original wizard said enter and quarantine.  The ArriveCAN page has always said you need (1) a -ve test or (2) a +ve test 10-11-15/180 days.  Another page said if you don't enter the required information in ArriveCAN, you are subject to a fine.

I can tell you the fines existed prior to Christmas.

Edited January 13, 2022 by CKCruising

[K_e_short]

11 hours ago, CKCruising said:

The positive test is new for sure.

 

I see:

"Based on your answers, you won’t be turned away at the land border, but you may be fined $5,000 per traveller (plus surcharges).To avoid being fined, wait to enter Canada until the 15th day (starting January 15, 2022, 11th day) after your positive test result. If you had symptoms without a positive result, wait until the symptoms have ended and you have a valid negative pre-entry test result."

 

That doesn't say CAN NOT enter the country.  You can enter the country.

 

O.k we can argue semantics.

 

You will never be denied entry into Canada if you are a Canadian citizen.

 

But you will now have to budget $5000 per traveller as extra costs if you happen to be fined when crossing with a positive Covid test.

 

From a financial standpoint it is cheaper to stay in the U.S. until the 11th day.

 

We all have different budgets for our trips but $5000 X 2 is not something I can afford.

[LuCruise]

23 minutes ago, K_e_short said:

 

O.k we can argue semantics.

 

You will never be denied entry into Canada if you are a Canadian citizen.

 

But you will now have to budget $5000 per traveller as extra costs if you happen to be fined when crossing with a positive Covid test.

 

From a financial standpoint it is cheaper to stay in the U.S. until the 11th day.

 

We all have different budgets for our trips but $5000 X 2 is not something I can afford.

Yeah agree.  There are two "costs"....financial amount of $5000 per person.  We are a family of 4 so yikes.  And then the cost of time if remain in the US...as it adds 2 weeks from work/school + hotel and food costs. So upset they have done this.

 

Any guesses how long this will be in place?  I figure at least until March break is over (or other similar spring breaks among different provinces).  We have an important trip in August, and then a re-try, for like the 5th time, of our cruise in December.  Really really hope it's lifted by then.

[CKCruising]

22 minutes ago, LuCruise said:

Yeah agree.  There are two "costs"....financial amount of $5000 per person.  We are a family of 4 so yikes.  And then the cost of time if remain in the US...as it adds 2 weeks from work/school + hotel and food costs. So upset they have done this.

 

Any guesses how long this will be in place?  I figure at least until March break is over (or other similar spring breaks among different provinces).  We have an important trip in August, and then a re-try, for like the 5th time, of our cruise in December.  Really really hope it's lifted by then.

The issue with a family of 4 is getting 4 negative tests.  If 1 person tests positive, then more than likely the rest will follow (especially if staying in close quarters like a hotel room).  Person 1 tests positive on day 1, Person 2 and 3 test positive on day 4 and then person 4 tests positive on day 8, you are actually stuck for 18 days.  You will have to pay for tests along the way as well (at 200 a pop ish), waiting until day 10 to do persons 2-4 would just reset the counter then, meaning you are stuck for 20 days.

 

In the next couple months, if anyone in your group tests positive on a rapid test, make sure to get a PCR test (probably has to be one of the online monitored tests).  That takes them out of the testing positive in the US equation.

 

The fines for crossing the border without the required documentation will never go away (they have always been there), so the only thing I would see fixing this is (1) removing the requirement for a PCR test, or (2) changing the positive incubation period lower (CDC/most provinces use 5 days - although it might not be based on science, but what people will stand for).  It looks good for optics that the government is preventing travel (after all the virus did come from outside the country 🙂 ) even though it doesn't really accomplish anything.

Edited January 13, 2022 by CKCruising

[K_e_short]

17 minutes ago, LuCruise said:

Yeah agree.  There are two "costs"....financial amount of $5000 per person.  We are a family of 4 so yikes.  And then the cost of time if remain in the US...as it adds 2 weeks from work/school + hotel and food costs. So upset they have done this.

 

Any guesses how long this will be in place?  I figure at least until March break is over (or other similar spring breaks among different provinces).  We have an important trip in August, and then a re-try, for like the 5th time, of our cruise in December.  Really really hope it's lifted by then.

 

I cancelled our March Break trip to Mexico yesterday.

 

We have two cruises booked this summer and I'm not sure I want to deal with jumping through so many hoops.

 

The issue right now is that the Federal government's response to Covid is VERY different then what individual provinces are doing. It has caused a lot of frustration.

 

I don't think this travel restriction is going away any time soon. It's political for sure. 

[FawnRiver]

It will be in place as long as the government thinks it’s good optics, they’ll never turn away from a potential revenue source.
 

They can travel without consequences either because they can get away with it by calling their trips “essential” or they can just pay the fines (as if a civil servant would lay fines against them). I would contend my mental health is essential and taking a vacation key to that, but I’m just a lowly citizen without wealth or connections.

 

I’m taking all reasonable precautions (vaccination, booster, masking, etc) and that should be enough, yet for them it isn’t. 

[LuCruise]

19 minutes ago, CKCruising said:

The issue with a family of 4 is getting 4 negative tests.  If 1 person tests positive, then more than likely the rest will follow (especially if staying in close quarters like a hotel room).  Person 1 tests positive on day 1, Person 2 and 3 test positive on day 4 and then person 4 tests positive on day 8, you are actually stuck for 18 days.  You will have to pay for tests along the way as well (at 200 a pop ish), waiting until day 10 to do persons 2-4 would just reset the counter then, meaning you are stuck for 20 days.

 

In the next couple months, if anyone in your group tests positive on a rapid test, make sure to get a PCR test (probably has to be one of the online monitored tests).  That takes them out of the testing positive in the US equation.

Yeah, was wondering about that if 3 negatives and 1 positive....do you have to test the other three again afterwards due to contact.  Ugh, this is a mess.  It's been almost 2 years and don't see any end.

[1kaper]

49 minutes ago, K_e_short said:

 

I cancelled our March Break trip to Mexico yesterday.

 

We have two cruises booked this summer and I'm not sure I want to deal with jumping through so many hoops.

 

The issue right now is that the Federal government's response to Covid is VERY different then what individual provinces are doing. It has caused a lot of frustration.

 

I don't think this travel restriction is going away any time soon. It's political for sure. 

 

The funny thing is I USED to be worried about what restrictions my province would put in.  That was my biggest concern last year. 
Now they seem to be leaving that behind and it is the Federal ones that are the headache now. 

 

[CKCruising]

30 minutes ago, LuCruise said:

Yeah, was wondering about that if 3 negatives and 1 positive....do you have to test the other three again afterwards due to contact.  Ugh, this is a mess.  It's been almost 2 years and don't see any end.

Everyone needs either a negative test within 72 hours or a positive test more than 10 days old.  Even if the other 3 were in a separate space with no contact, for the 10 days, they would need new tests because it's been more than 72 hours.

[schiff1997]

So this is also on the travel.gc.ca site 

[edrussell]

I have to wonder if the reports of Canadians traveling back via land with positive test results before the quarantine period have resulted in tightening of the rules is so far as publishing them.  There is little doubt in my mind that some have decided to fly domestically within the US while positive to cross via land which I DO NOT agree with in anyway.  However, traveling in your own vehicle could considered to be the lesser of 2 evils but I will concede that unless you follow strict protocols when doing so even this is not the best route to take.

 

With all that said when/who are deciding about these potential fines when crossing via land crossings?  Is there is a scenario whereby if you did try this you could be given an option to return to the US and quarantine there for the required period or face the fine?  I suppose that is also like closing the barn door after the horses got out.

 

Given that we plan on leaving to drive next Tuesday evening for our sailing we may be the guinea pigs should either of us test positive.  As of right now should that occur I plan on driving back (following strict protocols, we will have enough fuel in our truck to drive back without stopping, and leaving food in the truck for the trip etc). We will then try and cross and see what happens.

 

Much of this discussion is speculative of course as the real experience can often differ from the rules and how they are applied. 

[K_e_short]

3 hours ago, edrussell said:

 

 

Much of this discussion is speculative of course as the real experience can often differ from the rules and how they are applied. 

 

Anyone test positive want to try to cross the border to see if they fine you?

 

(Yes I'm being silly. Or stupid. Sometimes you have to laugh at all of this.)

[schiff1997]

2 hours ago, K_e_short said:

 

Anyone test positive want to try to cross the border to see if they fine you?

 

(Yes I'm being silly. Or stupid. Sometimes you have to laugh at all of this.)

We could start a go fund me page !

[K_e_short]

I posted this on the Book of Faces Canadian Carnival Fans and someone re read the website and it says something different in another part of the website.

 

That part says you can cross over, with a positive test, and will only be fined if you don't quarantine.

 

I am very confused.

 

I am very happy I am not travelling right now.

 

I will repeat that I am not going to take a chance that one part says $5000 fine and the other part of the website says no fine.

 

 

[broberts]

1 hour ago, K_e_short said:

I posted this on the Book of Faces Canadian Carnival Fans and someone re read the website and it says something different in another part of the website.

 

That part says you can cross over, with a positive test, and will only be fined if you don't quarantine.

 

I am very confused.

 

I am very happy I am not travelling right now.

 

I will repeat that I am not going to take a chance that one part says $5000 fine and the other part of the website says no fine

 

Was a link provided?

[cruzn1974]

We have plans to drive to Baltimore for a B2B during March break.  Am now seriously reconsidering.  

[K_e_short]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

Was a link provided?

 

It was the travel.gc website.

She posted screen shots that I have attached to this post.

I have tried to find where on the website but couldn't.

 

 

 

 

[broberts]

2 hours ago, K_e_short said:

 

It was the travel.gc website.

She posted screen shots that I have attached to this post.

I have tried to find where on the website but couldn't.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, can't read the pages. But I did locate the explanation for entering Canada vis-a-vis COVID, https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/covid-vaccinated-travellers-entering-canada#entry-vaccinated. The part I think relevant is in the pre-entry testing section:

 

"You must provide proof of a COVID-19 negative molecular test result to enter Canada OR proof of a previous positive test result taken between 15 and 180 days ago (starting January 15, 2022, between 11 and 180 days ago)."

 

Notice use of the word "must" as it relates to "negative molecular test". I suspect the thinking is that a positive test less than 11 days old is not material, i.e. it is ignored. And thus the correct documents are not presented which is a violation subject to the fine.

 

It's a terrible policy. Consider an asymptomatic short stay visiting an ailing relative or attending a funeral. 

 

[K_e_short]

7 hours ago, broberts said:

 

Sorry, can't read the pages. But I did locate the explanation for entering Canada vis-a-vis COVID, https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/covid-vaccinated-travellers-entering-canada#entry-vaccinated. The part I think relevant is in the pre-entry testing section:

 

"You must provide proof of a COVID-19 negative molecular test result to enter Canada OR proof of a previous positive test result taken between 15 and 180 days ago (starting January 15, 2022, between 11 and 180 days ago)."

 

Notice use of the word "must" as it relates to "negative molecular test". I suspect the thinking is that a positive test less than 11 days old is not material, i.e. it is ignored. And thus the correct documents are not presented which is a violation subject to the fine.

 

It's a terrible policy. Consider an asymptomatic short stay visiting an ailing relative or attending a funeral. 

 

 

The screen shots explained that the fines are for not quarantining, not using the ArriveCan app. having a fake test, and lying to border officials.

The person was proving that the $5000 is not for crossing with a positive test, but for other reasons.

 

And yes I agree it's a horrible policy. I retweeted on Twitter the news article about arrival testing. I stated that its very mixed messaging.

Either we are in a pandemic with a deadly virus and we need to stay home, stay away from others OR

everyone is going to be exposed to it, testing doesn't matter, tracking doesn't matter, and everything is open just with masks.

 

 

[broberts]

15 minutes ago, K_e_short said:

The person was proving that the $5000 is not for crossing with a positive test, but for other reasons.

 

And as I explained arriving with a positive test is taken as arriving without the proper documentation. Which I believe is subject to fine.  As written, the policy does not require a valid test, it requires a valid negative test.

 

In other words, the logic of the faced poster does not appear valid.

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by broberts