Rhine water levels 2022 and similar topics

[notamermaid]

On 8/27/2022 at 12:53 AM, notamermaid said:

I hope we will see proper rain during tomorrow.

I am still waiting for it. It is cooler and more pleasant, great sunshine today. But again, while there is quite a bit of rain in the Danube basin, not much is happening in the Rhine valley and virtually no rain this morning for Rhineland-Palatinate. I am going to water the trees in the street nearby today, seriously. Not sure if I should more despair with the folks in some buildings in Berlin or with the lack of rain. Berlin is politics of course but we in the West are of let us say a different breed so having grown up in the "Bonn Republic" I am not a fan of that place in the East. I do not trust them not to make life more difficult for us (that is me) in the tourist industry again this autumn. Who knows what will trickle down to affect enjoyment of river cruises on the Rhine?

 

Well back to the good news. Maxau gauge saw a pleasant rise during yesterday and overnight, has now peaked. Kaub gauge is also up, 98cm. Forecast suggests a rise that may bring the level up to 110cm. Which could mean that next week is sorted, i.e. pleasant sailing for all river cruise ships, or if I want to be slightly more pessimistic, pleasant sailing for almost all river cruise ships up to Friday. Long term outlook suggests we will not see figures under 60cm - which we had done earlier this month - for some time to come. Could September be better than we had feared? We will need to wait and see. As the "Niedrigwasserbericht" of 25 August says (in my free translation) "patient better - with the potential to get worse again".

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[OwenSmith]

Kaub gauge was indeed reading 98cm in big letters on the building itself when we cruised past it this afternoon on Amadeus Imperial. The weather was lovely for it, warm and sunny with a pleasant breeze. Lots of other cruise ships up to 135m long there too. The cargo ships looked no more than half loaded to me, possibly less. Half empty piles of coal, oil tankers riding quite high even going up stream etc.

 

We are in Koblenz for the night, and the food has been so disappointing we are going in to town this evening to eat. This is my sixth river cruise and is only the first one I've been so fed up with the food I have decamped from the ship, and I have had chance in the past.

[notamermaid]

Just now, OwenSmith said:

We are in Koblenz for the night, and the food has been so disappointing we are going in to town this evening to eat.

Sorry to read about the food. Plenty of eateries in Koblenz Altstadt. Haven't been to a restaurant there for some time so cannot recommend anything. I wouldn't choose the beer garden at Deutsches Eck, though. Have heard that the beer is better than the food there. But who knows, it may be a good meal there tonight. I enjoy the Yugoslav restaurant "Dubrovnik" but that is not in the Altstadt, it is on Friedrich-Ebert-Ring. Not too far to walk though. Hmm, I think I should make the effort to go to Koblenz some time soon... Anyway,

 

enjoy Koblenz. The sunset from Ehrenbreitstein is great, but it may be nice from the ship too. It works better on the Moselle with the open view at Balduin Bridge than on the Rhine where you have the buildings in the way.

 

notamermaid

 

[suslang]

3 hours ago, OwenSmith said:

Kaub gauge was indeed reading 98cm in big letters on the building itself when we cruised past it this afternoon on Amadeus Imperial. The weather was lovely for it, warm and sunny with a pleasant breeze. Lots of other cruise ships up to 135m long there too. The cargo ships looked no more than half loaded to me, possibly less. Half empty piles of coal, oil tankers riding quite high even going up stream etc.

 

We are in Koblenz for the night, and the food has been so disappointing we are going in to town this evening to eat. This is my sixth river cruise and is only the first one I've been so fed up with the food I have decamped from the ship, and I have had chance in the past.

Which boat are you on?

[Canal archive]

As far as I can see he is on board Amadeus Imperial.

[OwenSmith]

6 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Sorry to read about the food. Plenty of eateries in Koblenz Altstadt.

We ate in Weinhaus Hubertus and it was excellent, so much better choice and quality than on the ship.

 

One problem on the ship is if you don't like the two or three normal meals, the only "always available" option is chicken breast. Every other river cruise I have been on has had at least two "always available" options. The wine selection is poor too, it changes every night but your only choice each night is "red or white". I'm into wine and find the limited choice very frustrating. And it's all pretty mediocre stuff, both the wine and the food.

 

The ship itself is very nice, arguably the best I have been on with bigger standard cabins and a lovely shower in the bathrooms. This is Great Rail Journeys running the cruise, contracting the ship from Luftner. It is impossible to tell which of them caused which problem but I won't be using them again. The trip at the start using Eurostar, ICE via Strasbourg and then Interlaken to go to Jungfraujoch was excellent, it's just the cruise letting things down.

Edited August 28, 2022 by OwenSmith

[OwenSmith]

3 hours ago, Canal archive said:

As far as I can see he is on board Amadeus Imperial.

Correct. Currently docked overnight on the Moselle in Koblenz.

 

It's amazing how different the waters of the two rivers are. The Moselle looks green, the Rhine definitely does not, and the line where the waters meet is fascinating.

[stilltrucking]

Judging from the conversation so far, around 100cm on the water gauges is considered good news.  But the manufacturer of Viking's longships says their draught is 1.60m.  What am I missing?

[notamermaid]

Just now, stilltrucking said:

What am I missing?

The calculation of the navigation channel depth. See for example post #723. Every gauge differs so that 100cm in one place may be okay, but not in another. The river depth is not the navigation channel depth and the gauge is placed at the river embankment. So they are three different figures.

 

notamermaid

 

[stilltrucking]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

The calculation of the navigation channel depth. See for example post #723.

 

Got it.  Thanks.

[Host Jazzbeau]

3 hours ago, stilltrucking said:

Judging from the conversation so far, around 100cm on the water gauges is considered good news.  But the manufacturer of Viking's longships says their draught is 1.60m.  What am I missing?

A lot of ships claim a draft of 1.60m, yet Viking stops sailing before any of the others.  We're all missing something...

[worldtraveller99]

Just to pick up on OwenSmith's report re the Amadeus Imperial's poor food and drink. We travelled with Amadeus on our Danube Christmas Market cruise a few years ago, because it is one of the cheaper river cruise lines. This is how tour companies - eg Great Rail Journeys work, so they are able to make a profit while not charging you too much.

 

Actually we liked the food, but I am a simple soul re food. But the (included) wines were undrinkable. All of our table rebelled when they gave us a horrible Romanian wine, and they had to find for us a reasonable German wine, which was ok. So I think you are allowed to ask for something better?

[Canal archive]

Could the stopping of the Viking vessels that claim to have a draught of 1.6, similar to other companies vessels have something to do with the quality or qualifications of their  ‘Captains’. I’m not knocking them but experience is acquired and the more you have the more your paid.

[notamermaid]

7 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

A lot of ships claim a draft of 1.60m, yet Viking stops sailing before any of the others.  We're all missing something...

Indeed. Apart from the basic calculation there are these other variables. One is hull design. Amawaterways claims to have a flatter bottom on their ship design than others. Actual captains and crew have commented online on the odd design of the Viking longships. All things I cannot comment on and which we will never be able to know in detail unless we actually sail a particular ship as a captain (or knowledgeable visitor in the wheelhouse).

 

1 hour ago, Canal archive said:

experience is acquired

Certainly. The Gorge is a notorious stretch, if you have two ships going the opposite way you can get around the problem of a captain being not fully confident or playing it safe by not taking the ship through the shallows, but in the end every captain will be trained and needs to be trained to master all stretches in the best manner possible. There is always the possibility of booking a pilot to be on board but I do not know how that works at short notice. It can happen to any company and any captain. I would not want to refer to a specific company here.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

2 hours ago, worldtraveller99 said:

All of our table rebelled when they gave us a horrible Romanian wine, and they had to find for us a reasonable German wine, which was ok. So I think you are allowed to ask for something better?

That should be doable and I would certainly make my comments directly on the ship in such a case as well as to the tour operator afterwards. Wine is very reasonable in Germany and you can get drinkable regional ones for as little as eight euros a bottle. With a bit of knowledge you can go to any large supermarket and select a decent collection of international wines with an average price of six euros per bottle. Even Aldi has wines that are reasonable in quality. One of my favourite wines ever a few years ago was a French red from a cheap supermarket for 2.99 euros a bottle. Changing the wine selection is easier than changing the chef...

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Update: Kaub gauge at 103cm. Rain coming to the Upper Rhine valley tomorrow and probably finally some decent rain for the Meurthe and Moselle in France. More rain forecast for Wednesday, but shifting towards the Danube valley (again) so should mainly cover the High Rhine and Lake Constance while extending towards Basel and Freiburg may see a little bit of rain. Again no rain for the Middle Rhine valley. I did water the trees in the street yesterday. Leaves are turning brown prematurely around here to protect the tree from dying of thirst.

 

Kaub gauge forecast: today stable, minimal rise likely tomorrow. Level probably falling below 100cm on Wednesday with the potential for dropping to 90cm going into Thursday.

 

 

I have forgotten to mention that the hull transport of the Phoenix Alisa from Serbia to the Netherlands has been successfully completed. We talked about it briefly and I will get back to that story as courtesy of the ship spotters we now have many photos of her to look at.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[RDVIK2016]

10 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

A lot of ships claim a draft of 1.60m, yet Viking stops sailing before any of the others.  We're all missing something...

Jazzbeau,

I gave my guesses about the draft of Viking Longships on post #443 of this board on 2 Aug.  Somewhere I had got the idea the these ships have a draft of 1.9m,  Notamermaid, provided a link to a Neptun Werft page that gave the draft as 1.6m. Binnenschifferforum usually gives the Tiefgang/draft of Viking Longships as "2.0m" or "2.0m max", but occasionally does throw in a "1.6m" or "1.8" (or leaves the Tiefgang blank).  I have concluded (guessed) that they operate normally at about 1.8m on the Rhein and 2.0 wherever they have to clear under low bridges (German Danube, Main, some canals). 

 

This is what I wrote to explain my reasoning:

notamermaid, 

Thank you for finding that info.

1.6 meters must be a ship as delivered by the Werft.  Anywhere else they're giving 1.8 to 2.0m.  Binnenschifferforum has been starting a thread for each ship as they are introduced and in most cases they list the Tiefgang (draught) as 2,00 m. Sometimes they ad "max". On one ship I checked, Tialfi, they did use 1,60.  I guess the standard way to report draught is to give the maximum draught which at the same time corresponds to the minimum air draught (Fixpunkt) to clear low overpasses/bridges. Once you get crew, passengers, food load-out, etc., on board you probably can't trim the boat any more shallow than about 1.8 meters. 

 

I found a couple of photos of Viking Hlin out of the water where the forward and aft draught marks were clearly visible.  The 2 meter mark approximately matches that red bumper line just above the black anti-fouling paint on the lower hull.  Any photos of Longships underway don't seem to show more than about 20 centimeters of black paint exposed so they must be cruising at about 1.8 to 1.9 meters of draught. 

[Canal archive]

Many years ago we became friendly with a very good Spanish restauranteur he always maintained that some of the French wineries bought up Spanish wine to bulk up their output. Then it just might have had a smidgen of truth.

[bluestocking7]

I spoke to a Tauck rep in Budapest today and asked her about Tauck ships and water levels--since we were able to get through the Rhine Gorge in late July on MS Inspire when other ships were not.  

 

She said that it comes down to passenger load.  Tauck has fewer people on board than typical ships, less ballast water, so rides higher in the water even though the ships are the same length.  

 

We did go through the Gorge slowly though--took an extra hour, we were told.  

[notamermaid]

41 minutes ago, RDVIK2016 said:

Once you get crew, passengers, food load-out, etc., on board you probably can't trim the boat any more shallow than about 1.8 meters. 

I do not want to get too much into the the details of the draught and what goes into the calculation etc. but it reminds me of an aspect of sailing/transporting the hull of the Alisa. Must remember to include a webcam shot, hope I can still get hold of it.

 

notamermaid

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by notamermaid
missing word

[notamermaid]

15 hours ago, OwenSmith said:

We ate in Weinhaus Hubertus and it was excellent, so much better choice and quality than on the ship.

Oh I know it from the outside. At Florinsmarkt. Never been in I think. I have heard that it is very good. Glad to read you enjoyed it there.

 

notamermaid

 

[OwenSmith]

Low water levels have affected our Cologne excursion tomorrow, we found out late today that our intended mooring in Cologne is not accessible even with our 1.55m draft. Instead we're docking 2 to 3km away, the cruise director doesn't know accurately the distance or even whether it is upstream or downstream of Cologne (which seals my opinion that she's not very good). This was all apparently discovered too late for any transport to be laid on, so the only option is for the entire ship's passengers to walk. And because we're at a mooring obtained at short notice we have to vacate it by 11am. So it's a crack of dawn walking expedition to spend 3 hours in Cologne and walk about 5km in total. We've decided to stay on board. I have to say they don't seem to have had any contingency plans and this apparently came as a complete surprise to them, which strikes me as amateurish.

[OwenSmith]

12 hours ago, worldtraveller99 said:

Just to pick up on OwenSmith's report re the Amadeus Imperial's poor food and drink. We travelled with Amadeus on our Danube Christmas Market cruise a few years ago, because it is one of the cheaper river cruise lines. This is how tour companies - eg Great Rail Journeys work, so they are able to make a profit while not charging you too much.

We picked this cruise because of the itinerary, not the price. Charge me what it costs to do it properly, I can afford it.

[notamermaid]

Just now, OwenSmith said:

Low water levels have affected our Cologne excursion tomorrow, we found out late today that our intended mooring in Cologne is not accessible even with our 1.55m draft.

I am a bit surprised, did not think it would be too low still.

 

Just now, OwenSmith said:

I have to say they don't seem to have had any contingency plans and this apparently came as a complete surprise to them, which strikes me as amateurish.

Hmm, if it is the standard mooring place, it does strike me as odd. Wonder if they have had unwanted gravel deposited there lately. I would have thought that can be monitored.

 

Not sure if this will help you but I will post it anyway and perhaps it is of interest to others. Moorings on a map courtesy of nicko cruises, i.e. info for their passengers: https://www.nicko-cruises.de/en/moorings/cologne

 

notamermaid

 

[SometimesCruiser]

10 hours ago, notamermaid said:

a French red from a cheap supermarket for 2.99 euros a bottle.

 

In the US, we'd call that a "Three Buck Chuck".  I don't know the German translation....