Tipping now more important than ever

[LGW59]

3 minutes ago, Peter Lanky said:

As it happens, that event did happen in London the last time I went there 32 years ago.

 

As a matter of interest if I was socialising with a group of Americans on a non tipping cruise and they wanted to tip somebody (effectively twice) and I declined to join in, how are they likely to react? This would be very useful in the future for me.

Why would it matter, you don't tip and don't believe in it, as is your right to not do so, so why would what a group of Americans think even matter to you?

[ldubs]

Just now, Peter Lanky said:

As it happens, that event did happen in London the last time I went there 32 years ago.

 

As a matter of interest if I was socialising with a group of Americans on a non tipping cruise and they wanted to tip somebody (effectively twice) and I declined to join in, how are they likely to react? This would be very useful in the future for me.

 

Why would there be a group tip situation on a cruise?   Makes no sense at all even on cruises where tipping is customary.  Can't answer your question.    

[Peter Lanky]

21 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Why would there be a group tip situation on a cruise?   Makes no sense at all even on cruises where tipping is customary.  Can't answer your question.    

I'm sat at a table with a group and somebody slaps a banknote on the table and the others follow suit, with me sat with them watching. It seems a very feasible situation.

[KBs mum]

53 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Just to clarify, the poster was clear that the service was good.  If otherwise, that would be a different story , I agree.   

In the UK I'd expect 'good' to be the normal level of service and included in the stated price. In the UK I only tip for 'above and beyond good or did more than might be expected'. 

 

[ldubs]

14 minutes ago, Peter Lanky said:

I'm sat at a table with a group and somebody slaps a banknote on the table and the others follow suit, with me sat with them watching. It seems a very feasible situation.

 

In the set-up circumstance you describe, you should follow suit or not, whichever feels right for you.  I doubt anyone would say or do anything.   But that might be highly dependent on your starting a lecture or even more so on how much alcohol was consumed.   If I were with a group of Brits under the same circumstances, would I get the old stink eye if I tossed a buck or two on the table?  I've been fortunate to share an MDR table with great folks from the UK.  When some of us left envelopes at the end of the cruise and they didn't, nothing was said and I sure didn't have any negative thoughts.   I've also been unfortunate to have to listing to someone whine all through the dinner about tipping in America.  Fortunately other tables were available for future nights.  

Edited March 6, 2022 by ldubs

[ldubs]

19 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

In the UK I'd expect 'good' to be the normal level of service and included in the stated price. In the UK I only tip for 'above and beyond good or did more than might be expected'. 

 

 

I agree about expecting good service, everywhere, tipping culture or not.  My comment was meant to say if service were poor then I wouldn't blame him for not joining in a group tip.   But it wasn't.     

[Peter Lanky]

27 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 If I were with a group of Brits under the same circumstances, would I get the old stink eye if I tossed a buck or two on the table?

 

I've also been unfortunate to have to listing to someone whine all through the dinner about tipping in America.  Fortunately other tables were available for future nights.  

You would definitely not be ostracised for leaving money in a non tipping situation unless you tried to shame others into doing the same.  Somebody may question you as to why, but there would be no bad feeling. In fact I have no bad feeling towards any of my 'adversaries' in this discussion, though I doubt the sentiment is reciprocated in many cases.

 

I'm sure there are many different types of 'cruise bore' not limited to moans about tipping. I've rarely encountered it myself, but an acquaintance tells me of a friend of his who literally hands out banknotes throughout the meal whenever he is dining, with the waiters hanging around like flies wanting a piece of the action. That is one of my worst nightmares. The other nightmare that I have encountered is the person who sees themself as a wine expert and draws attention to themself by asking for something 'of the menu' usually at three times the price, and expects everyone else to share the bill for it.

[Peter Lanky]

23 minutes ago, ldubs said:

I agree about expecting good service, everywhere, tipping culture or not.  My comment was meant to say if service were poor then I wouldn't blame him for not joining in a group tip.   But it wasn't.    

So you do see tipping as compulsory, even in a situation where it is not part of the culture, but just a habit? It's a bit like somebody in a group ordering 'garlic bread' with any Mediterranean meal, without asking if others want it, and without realising that it's not a Mediterranean dish, and it ends up being left yet few people have the bottle to say no! Pure habit with no meaning.

 

If nobody has encountered this, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. My daughter dreads it when going out with friends.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Peter Lanky

[LGW59]

9 minutes ago, Peter Lanky said:

So you do see tipping as compulsory, even in a situation where it is not part of the culture, but just a habit? It's a bit like somebody in a group ordering 'garlic bread' with any Mediterranean meal, without asking if others want it, and without realising that it's not a Mediterranean dish, and it ends up being left yet few people have the bottle to say no! Pure habit with no meaning.

 

If nobody has encountered this, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. My daughter dreads it when going out with friends.

ask for separate checks

 

[Peter Lanky]

12 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

ask for separate checks

 

Not always easy. Most of my dining tends to be shared, in other words we don't just order dishes for ourselves, but share them between the group on the table as I tend to prefer cuisines where this is the norm. I have suggested to people who drink like a fish while dining to have a separate drinks bill, but again, they really don't like it, and often make it very obvious. Even worse when it is relatives you rarely meet.

[KBs mum]

17 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

ask for separate checks

 

You think tipping's a minefield, payment systems and methods in a group situation take it to a whole new level. 

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, Peter Lanky said:

Not always easy. Most of my dining tends to be shared, in other words we don't just order dishes for ourselves, but share them between the group on the table as I tend to prefer cuisines where this is the norm. I have suggested to people who drink like a fish while dining to have a separate drinks bill, but again, they really don't like it, and often make it very obvious. Even worse when it is relatives you rarely meet.

Then you seem to dine with people who you worry what they will think, frankly it is their problem.  I like a more expensive wine in a nice restaurant and would not have my table mates have to share in that cost, hence separate checks work for me, and yes that good ole American custom of tipping comes in to play, so I remove the problem, I handle me and let them handle them.  Of course if I take my adult children to dinner it is a very different situation.  

[ldubs]

29 minutes ago, Peter Lanky said:

So you do see tipping as compulsory, even in a situation where it is not part of the culture, but just a habit? It's a bit like somebody in a group ordering 'garlic bread' with any Mediterranean meal, without asking if others want it, and without realising that it's not a Mediterranean dish, and it ends up being left yet few people have the bottle to say no! Pure habit with no meaning.

 

If nobody has encountered this, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. My daughter dreads it when going out with friends.

 

No. Someone suggested you didn't join the group tip because of bad service.  I basically said that would be a valid reason for not joining in a group tip.   I know you want to jump to conclusions, but I have repeatedly said we should act according to the local custom.   

 

Someone wants to order garlic bread -- who cares. Should they have asked -- I don't know.   It is a petty thing.   

[ldubs]

50 minutes ago, Peter Lanky said:

You would definitely not be ostracised for leaving money in a non tipping situation unless you tried to shame others into doing the same.  Somebody may question you as to why, but there would be no bad feeling. In fact I have no bad feeling towards any of my 'adversaries' in this discussion, though I doubt the sentiment is reciprocated in many cases.

 

That is what I would expect.  Let's keep in mind your scenario and my response was about a "non tipping". cruise.  I've never been on one of those.  If I were on one, and lacking credible advice otherwise, I don't know why I would give a cash tip to the person serving drinks.  

 

Because the gratuity is added to the tab, I don't generally do that on "tipping cruises" either. But many do.  It doesn't bother me.  I do get free alcoholic beverages on a couple of cruise lines.  I typically will give some cash to the server in those cases. If I didn't, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.  

 

50 minutes ago, Peter Lanky said:

I'm sure there are many different types of 'cruise bore' not limited to moans about tipping. I've rarely encountered it myself, but an acquaintance tells me of a friend of his who literally hands out banknotes throughout the meal whenever he is dining, with the waiters hanging around like flies wanting a piece of the action. That is one of my worst nightmares. The other nightmare that I have encountered is the person who sees themself as a wine expert and draws attention to themself by asking for something 'of the menu' usually at three times the price, and expects everyone else to share the bill for it.

 

There are bad apples everywhere.   Handing out banknotes throughout the meal sounds like a movie I saw once.  

[KBs mum]

3 hours ago, Peter Lanky said:

f the others in the group decide to dance naked on the table in appreciation,  I won't be doing that either. 

One should think not! One is British, after all. 😁

[Mike981]

18 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Well, that was completely different. Ok, I'll admit I just watched the memorial concert for George Harrison on my local PBS, and it included Monty Python. They very well could have acted out your post.'

 

And talk about asking for $ and trying to make people feel guilty, just watch one of these PBS special ask people for contributions shows. They make anyone who pressured you for a tip look like a bunch of pikers.

 

That's where a DVR comes in handy, just hit pause and watch something else for 15 minutes and then go back and skip all the begging. Our public radio station is horrible with the begging. Unfortunately the quality in their reporting is suffering and it seems to be reflected in the amount of donations they are getting.

 

18 hours ago, ontheweb said:

All rules have an exception. The Bob Marley tour bus we took out of Ochos Rios was a truly wonderful experience. In addition to the great music, we saw a part of the country that the average cruiser never sees. 

 

Glad you got away from the port and saw what a wonderful island it is.

 

4 hours ago, wowzz said:

To be honest, if someone refused to leave a tip when everyone else chips in,  I wouldn't eat out with that person again.

 

Worked with a guy like this. It was where I learned what the term "alligator arms" meant.

[LGW59]

52 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

One should think not! One is British, after all. 😁

Oh come on already, nothing says a Brit like the Full Monty!

[slidergirl]

20 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We have a very similar philosophy.  We only do cruise line excursions if there is no reasonable way we can achieve our goals on our own or possibly with a very small group private tour.  I used to joke that "tour" is a 4 letter word I avoid.   To DW and I, being stuck on a typical bus-load cruise excursion (or any bus excursion) is a fate best left to our enemies 🙂   But we have met many cruisers who do not even like walking off a ship (anywhere) unless they are part of a cruise line excursion.  One nice thing about cruises is folks can usually make their choices and everyone is happy.

 

When DW and I went to Egypt (we flew over there for a 2 week visit that took us throughout the country) we did it on our own with the help of a small tour company.  When needed, we had our own guide (and driver) for just the two of us and it was actually about the same price as the cheapest tours.  Because we were traveling by ourselves we were able to see things (such as a very weird Monastery) that was not open to larger tours.  We went to the Great Pyramids at 9am (with a guide) and were truly the only people at those ruins (other then the security folks).  I still have a picture of our car in the huge parking lot....we were the only car.  When we left a couple of hours later the large tours had arrived and it was not pretty.

 

Hank

 

Hank

Hank - my Egypt/Jordan was a 2 week-er river cruise and land trip I did with 16 other women.  The Kenya trip was 2 weeks with another small group of women.  Only way I'll do a tour.  Doing my canal barge with the same company and 13 other women - nothing better than a small gaggle of drunk old women!!.  We're small enough that we dictate how long we do things.  

 

[slidergirl]

4 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I used to pick folks up at our local train station almost weekly.  There was a group of guys doing exactly what you are describing -- writing the time, etc in their notebooks.  Maybe retired railroad workers, IDK.  Train buffs for sure.  

I believe they are "Trainspotters"...

[slidergirl]

I think I'm tapping out now.  

[KBs mum]

26 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Oh come on already, nothing says a Brit like the Full Monty!

It is rather chilly today

[ontheweb]

29 minutes ago, Mike981 said:

 

That's where a DVR comes in handy, just hit pause and watch something else for 15 minutes and then go back and skip all the begging. Our public radio station is horrible with the begging. Unfortunately the quality in their reporting is suffering and it seems to be reflected in the amount of donations they are getting.

 

 

Glad you got away from the port and saw what a wonderful island 

My term for those "special shows" is it is a begathon.

 

And yes, there are so many who have contempt for Jamaica and Jamaicans, but it was a beautiful experience. But, I will have to admit that Jamaicans are not at all shy about asking for tips or telling you when they think it is not enough.

 

My advice to our posters from non-tipping cultures would be to stay on the ship in Jamaica.

[KBs mum]

3 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

My advice to our posters from non-tipping cultures would be to stay on the ship in Jamaica.

That ignores the fact that everyone on here on the non tipping side of the debate has either said they tip as the locals do, or avoid situations where tipping is compulsory. Either approach makes your advice superfluous

[Mike981]

Agree the Jamaicans are not shy, LOL. But man I have had some wonderful times in Jamaica and if you can ever do a land trip and hang with some of the locals, they are very warm people and so fun and funny.

[ontheweb]

10 minutes ago, Mike981 said:

Agree the Jamaicans are not shy, LOL. But man I have had some wonderful times in Jamaica and if you can ever do a land trip and hang with some of the locals, they are very warm people and so fun and funny.

We did a land trip to Jamaica for our 20th anniversary. We stayed at the one resort that was owned by the locals, and it was wonderful. As you said, unlike the perception many have, they were wonderful people.

 

When we were there years and years later on a cruise, I asked our Bob Marley bus tour guide about that resort. He knew of it, and alas, it no longer existed.