Post Cruise 5 nights in Yokohama

[BruceMuzz]

12 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Not sure where some folks are getting their information. Maybe it depends on your definition of "closed to most folks." I just finished reading what I think is the most hopeful news I've seen from Japan since COVID. They've raised the number of tourists allowed to enter from 20,000 per day to 50,000, and the requirement to be on a guided tour is lifted. Now, any traveler booked with a travel agency is permitted to enter. Personally, I'm quite upbeat about this news. Our cruise isn't until April 2023, though.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/09/01/national/package-tours-restrictions-eased/

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/08/31/national/tourism-measures-kishida-covid/

One needs to read the articles very carefully. The English version leaves out some very important details. The Japanese version spells out that foreign visitors MUST purchase a PACKAGE from a very  limited number of Japanese Travel Agents. These packages require you to stay in an approved hotel with all the other people who bought the package. You must eat all your meals there, and travel with an escort in a group, to selected tourist sites only. The escort will be enforcing masks worn always and social distancing always. If one of the group gets COVID, the tour is cancelled and everyone flies home.

[DCGuy64]

On 9/2/2022 at 10:46 PM, BruceMuzz said:

One needs to read the articles very carefully. The English version leaves out some very important details. The Japanese version spells out that foreign visitors MUST purchase a PACKAGE from a very  limited number of Japanese Travel Agents. These packages require you to stay in an approved hotel with all the other people who bought the package. You must eat all your meals there, and travel with an escort in a group, to selected tourist sites only. The escort will be enforcing masks worn always and social distancing always. If one of the group gets COVID, the tour is cancelled and everyone flies home.

I don't believe you are correct about this, sorry. Anyway, I view this change as very, very good news, and the fact that Japanese tourism stocks skyrocketed afterwards is an indication that I'm right. Besides, that my cruise still has 7 months to go means things will only improve by then.

[BruceMuzz]

15 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I don't believe you are correct about this, sorry. Anyway, I view this change as very, very good news, and the fact that Japanese tourism stocks skyrocketed afterwards is an indication that I'm right. Besides, that my cruise still has 7 months to go means things will only improve by then.

You can believe what you want.

I work at one of those Japanese tourism companies whose stocks have gone up. 

We are pretty sure that unregulated visits of foreigners to Japan will not happen until next Spring - and we all really hope we are wrong.

Permission for foreign cruise ships to visit Japan may be even further away. China, South Korea, and Taiwan also need to open up to foreign cruise ships before they can legally sail in Japan. All those countries - including Japan - have their own domestic cruise companies that have been very busy and very profitable these past 2 years with no foreign competition. Very few people in Asia want that to change.

[DCGuy64]

On 9/6/2022 at 11:43 PM, BruceMuzz said:

and we all really hope we are wrong.

I really hope you are wrong, too. And no, I don't mean that to be rude, I really don't. It's just that after three years of trying to get to Japan on a cruise, I am sick and tired of things getting cancelled. Literally sick, bordering on depression. It makes me want to stop looking forward to it, cancel the trip, and shelve the plans for good. Unlike many people on Cruise Critic, my wife and I aren't retired or loaded. We choose our vacations carefully. Since we both still work, we aren't the kind who can just quickly substitute one vacation for another. The trip to Japan next April means, necessarily, that we've had to say "no" to other possible trips around the same time. So if you're right and Japan forbids cruises next year, as you seem to imply they will, it means trips we otherwise COULD have gone on won't happen, either. And since that's the only cruise we currently have planned at all for 2023, there's no guarantee we'll go anywhere, and that sucks. On the other hand, I could choose to be proactive, and book a different vacation for next March, April or May, in anticipation of our cruise getting cancelled. But that's risky, because if our money is tied up and we *DO* go to Japan after all, we might lose money. I guess we'll keep waiting for now. The final payment for our cruise is still more than 3 months away. If things aren't looking more promising by then, we'll cancel, get our deposit back, and book something else.

[BruceMuzz]

There is some good news for entering Japan in today's Yomiuri Shimbun.

The Japanese Yen has been depreciating more rapidly than expected during this post-COVID period.

The Bank of Japan has taken their traditional conservative approach, causing the Yen to drop to the range of 150 / Dollar. The Japanese Government is considering opening up the country more rapidly than they want, in order to reap the financial benefit of increased tourism.

At 150 Yen / Dollar, Japan is suddenly an incredible bargain.

 

There is still no talk of re-welcoming foreign cruise ships, as there never have been very many anyway. But it appears that Japan tourism will be re-starting sooner than hoped.  

[Hlitner]

7 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

There is some good news for entering Japan in today's Yomiuri Shimbun.

The Japanese Yen has been depreciating more rapidly than expected during this post-COVID period.

The Bank of Japan has taken their traditional conservative approach, causing the Yen to drop to the range of 150 / Dollar. The Japanese Government is considering opening up the country more rapidly than they want, in order to reap the financial benefit of increased tourism.

At 150 Yen / Dollar, Japan is suddenly an incredible bargain.

 

There is still no talk of re-welcoming foreign cruise ships, as there never have been very many anyway. But it appears that Japan tourism will be re-starting sooner than hoped.  

Please keep the posts coming as it is great to have a source who is actually in the country.   Trying to read the Asian mind (in terms of the Japanese government) is very tricky but we think you are doing great :).  I am old enough to remember when it was 360 yen to the dollar.  I find it fascinating that some cruise lines (such as HAL) are still proceeding as though they expect their ships to be able to go to Japan as early as February.   While I continue to be skeptical that Japan will reopen to cruise ships by early 2023, I wonder if the political winds have shifted to the extent that the new PM just throws up his hands and declares COVID to be something that should be handled similar to the flu.    Another part of me wonders if the PR damage done (in Japan) to the cruise industry by the Diamond Princess incident will keep western ships our of Japan for several more years.

 

Hank

[USN59-79]

9 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

There is some good news for entering Japan in today's Yomiuri Shimbun.

The Japanese Yen has been depreciating more rapidly than expected during this post-COVID period.

The Bank of Japan has taken their traditional conservative approach, causing the Yen to drop to the range of 150 / Dollar. The Japanese Government is considering opening up the country more rapidly than they want, in order to reap the financial benefit of increased tourism.

At 150 Yen / Dollar, Japan is suddenly an incredible bargain.

 

There is still no talk of re-welcoming foreign cruise ships, as there never have been very many anyway. But it appears that Japan tourism will be re-starting sooner than hoped.  

Can you tell us something about the Japanese cruise industry?  I have heard that the Asuka II started cruising in Japan in November 2021 with about 300 passengers and there is another ship Nippon Maru.  It doesn't sound like a big industry compared to the major foreign flagged ships that cruise around Japan when they can.

Ray

[BruceMuzz]

Japan has a small Domestic Cruise Industry, with about 5 cruise ships total.

But we do have an extensive Ferry system that operates much like a domestic cruise line system.

These businesses all do better when foreign cruise ships do not call at Japan.

 

Additionally, most foreign cruise lines spend most of their money outside Japan.

Fuel and food are a cruise line's biggest expenses. Although Japan does it better than just about anyone, they also charge top prices. So the cruise lines tend to do their purchasing and loading in South Korea or Taiwan.

Crew changes are another big expense for cruise lines. Japan is very difficult and expensive for these as well, as so many crew want to "jump ship" in Japan. Most cruise lines do crew changes in South Korea.

[Cruise Wonderland]

5 hours ago, USN59-79 said:

Can you tell us something about the Japanese cruise industry?  I have heard that the Asuka II started cruising in Japan in November 2021 with about 300 passengers and there is another ship Nippon Maru.  It doesn't sound like a big industry compared to the major foreign flagged ships that cruise around Japan when they can.

Ray

 

There are 3 Japanese cruise ships:

- Asuka II (the former Crystal Harmony of Crystal Cruises), 50444 tons, maximum 872 passengers

- Pacific Venus, 26518 tons, maximum 720 passengers

- Nippon Maru, 22472 tons, maximum 532 passengers

 

Obviously their size is much smaller than the vessels of mainstream American and European cruise lines. But they are premium and the cruise fare is rather expensive (comparable with Oceania, Azamara, etc.)

 

All of them are Japan-flagged, so they can operate short domestic cruises (as short as 1 night) without calling at a foreign port. Since they cater to local residents, they can have many embarkation ports in the smaller towns.

[On the contrary, foreign cruise ships (e.g. Diamond Princess) have to sail to at least one overseas port in each voyage, usually South Korea or Taiwan (definitely no more Russia now), so the itinerary cannot be shorter than 5 nights. It usually departs in large ports such as Yokohama/Tokyo, Kobe and Osaka.]

 

The onboard language is definitely Japanese. They do not expect to have many overseas passengers. You can still book these cruises from their official website, but they will not have any special arrangements to cater for passengers who do not understand Japanese. All the announcements will be in Japanese. Nevertheless, many crew members are from the Philippines or Eastern Europe, so you can still communicate with them in English.

[Beejay4016]

On 9/7/2022 at 11:43 AM, BruceMuzz said:

You can believe what you want.

I work at one of those Japanese tourism companies whose stocks have gone up. 

We are pretty sure that unregulated visits of foreigners to Japan will not happen until next Spring - and we all really hope we are wrong.

Permission for foreign cruise ships to visit Japan may be even further away. China, South Korea, and Taiwan also need to open up to foreign cruise ships before they can legally sail in Japan. All those countries - including Japan - have their own domestic cruise companies that have been very busy and very profitable these past 2 years with no foreign competition. Very few people in Asia want that to change.

Why are only China, South Korea and Taiwan relevant to this condition? Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand, and possibly other Asian countries, are open to tourism, and the Westerdam is travelling up to Japan from Australia via Indonesia, Singapore etc. so there should be no issue in that respect.

 

[USN59-79]

8 hours ago, Beejay4016 said:

Why are only China, South Korea and Taiwan relevant to this condition? Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand, and possibly other Asian countries, are open to tourism, and the Westerdam is travelling up to Japan from Australia via Indonesia, Singapore etc. so there should be no issue in that respect.

 

I think the issue would be the time and distance to get from Japan  back to Singapore or Indonesia or Thailand.  Two days to get there and two days back is four sea days for a single Southern port.  While the Westerdam is travelling up from Singapore, she is travelling around Japan for a couple of months, which would require the foreign stops.

Ray

[BruceMuzz]

Cabotage Laws generally (but not always) apply to cruises that begin and end in the same country.

[Cruise Wonderland]

8 hours ago, USN59-79 said:

I think the issue would be the time and distance to get from Japan  back to Singapore or Indonesia or Thailand.  Two days to get there and two days back is four sea days for a single Southern port.  While the Westerdam is travelling up from Singapore, she is travelling around Japan for a couple of months, which would require the foreign stops.

Ray

 

Yes it is. And two days is definitely not enough. Even at no intermediate ports, a direct voyage from Japan to Singapore requires a week. I think it is even longer than the transatlantic distance from New York to Southampton.

 

17 hours ago, Beejay4016 said:

Why are only China, South Korea and Taiwan relevant to this condition? Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand, and possibly other Asian countries, are open to tourism, and the Westerdam is travelling up to Japan from Australia via Indonesia, Singapore etc. so there should be no issue in that respect.

 

A single journey of reposition voyage has no problem. But if the ship plans to stay in Japan and offer roundtrip cruises there, it cannot sail to too far away within a 14-night voyage. The only choices of nearby foreign nations are South Korea, China, Taiwan (no Russia now).

[ringers0815]

According to articles I am reading, Japan announced today that it is re-opening to individual tourists as of October 11.

https://www.travelcaffeine.com/japan-reopening-individual-tourists/

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, ringers0815 said:

According to articles I am reading, Japan announced today that it is re-opening to individual tourists as of October 11.

https://www.travelcaffeine.com/japan-reopening-individual-tourists/

We have been somewhat pessimistic about Japan reopening (to cruises and independent travel) in time for our March cruise.  But this latest announcement (made at the NY Stock Exchange) is the first time I feel some real optimism.  Japan has major economic problems including a rapidly falling Yen, inflation, and a tourist industry that has collapsed!  And now, the new PM finds himself at a low point in their domestic polls.  It is almost like a perfect storm pushing the new PM to normalize most things (including tourism).  This week there is a huge Travel Exposition happening in Tokyo (which promotes tourism) so the PMs announcement in NY was likely timed for that big conference.  

 

But as Brucemuzz has reminded us (a few times) the devil is truly in the details.  Doing away with the annoying Visa program is a great start and hinting at the reopening of independent tourism is huge!  But still no mention about cruise ships although one might suspect that if they again allow independent tourism they would have no reason to prohibit ships.

 

Hank

[BruceMuzz]

Hank,

You nailed it.

The Japanese Prime Minister is being forced to open up the country to foreign tourists sooner than most Japanese wanted him to.

Foreign cruise ships will remain a problem until at least one other nearby country opens up - to comply with Cabotage Laws.

It appears that South Korea is considering opening as well,  which could satisfy the Cabotage requirements.

Note that even with the depreciated Yen, Japan is still the most expensive country in Asia for cruise ships to operate. They MUST have another country - like South Korea, China, or Taiwan - where they can purchase fuel, water, and Food & Beverage items, at much lower prices.

Even if Japan waived the Cabotage requirements for foreign cruise ships (highly unlikely), those ships still cannot afford to visit until they have a viable foreign port to visit.

[Hlitner]

11 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

Hank,

You nailed it.

The Japanese Prime Minister is being forced to open up the country to foreign tourists sooner than most Japanese wanted him to.

Foreign cruise ships will remain a problem until at least one other nearby country opens up - to comply with Cabotage Laws.

It appears that South Korea is considering opening as well,  which could satisfy the Cabotage requirements.

Note that even with the depreciated Yen, Japan is still the most expensive country in Asia for cruise ships to operate. They MUST have another country - like South Korea, China, or Taiwan - where they can purchase fuel, water, and Food & Beverage items, at much lower prices.

Even if Japan waived the Cabotage requirements for foreign cruise ships (highly unlikely), those ships still cannot afford to visit until they have a viable foreign port to visit.

Bruce, 

 

It almost seems like Asian countries are starting to fall like dominos in terms of their COVID restrictions.  Just saw that Taiwan is planning to reopen in mid-October so we might assume they are jumping on the Japan bandwagon.  As you said, there are rumors that Korea will also drop their restrictions.  It is the first time that I am feeling some degree of optimism that our March 2023 cruise (which involves multiple ports in Japan, Taiwan, Okinawa and Korea will actually happen.   It cannot hurt that many Asian political leaders are in NYC (for the UN meeting) and seeing that the USA has opened-up with very few restrictions and little masking.  I actually spent part of this morning making hotel reservations in Japan (all fully refundable).  The Yen:Dollar rate is having a very nice impact on hotel pricing and we locked in rates using points.

 

Hank

[DCGuy64]

21 hours ago, ringers0815 said:

According to articles I am reading, Japan announced today that it is re-opening to individual tourists as of October 11.

https://www.travelcaffeine.com/japan-reopening-individual-tourists/

This is great, great news! I have a friend who's about to head off on his honeymoon to Japan. I'm feeling more and more optimistic about our chances for next year's cruise.

[ringers0815]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

This is great, great news! I have a friend who's about to head off on his honeymoon to Japan. I'm feeling more and more optimistic about our chances for next year's cruise.

I agree. I am feeling more optimistic now about cruising in Japan in March 2023. I have now booked hotel rooms in Japan (fully refundable). They are really inexpensive right now compared to when we were there a few years ago.

[DCGuy64]

2 hours ago, ringers0815 said:

I agree. I am feeling more optimistic now about cruising in Japan in March 2023. I have now booked hotel rooms in Japan (fully refundable). They are really inexpensive right now compared to when we were there a few years ago.

That's very wise of you. From what I read earlier today, prices may soon rise in anticipation of many more visitors.

[Beejay4016]

On 9/16/2022 at 1:52 AM, USN59-79 said:

I think the issue would be the time and distance to get from Japan  back to Singapore or Indonesia or Thailand.  Two days to get there and two days back is four sea days for a single Southern port.  While the Westerdam is travelling up from Singapore, she is travelling around Japan for a couple of months, which would require the foreign stops.

Ray

Thanks for that; it makes sense now. Cheers

[Hlitner]

I will take this back to the original post about 5 pre-cruise nights in Yokohama.  While DW and I will often find a base for exploration (in any country), Yokohama would not be my choice for 5 days.  We would rather choose a neighborhood within Tokyo (such as Shujinku) because of its more convenient location.  Keep in mind that when you stay in Yokohama you might find yourself on a train for over 40 min (each way) to get to some major Tokyo hot spots.  While that is probably OK with some folks, it might be somewhat inconvenient to others.

 

Hank

[BruceMuzz]

Hank,

Right again.

Although Yokohama is a very nice city (technically it is the biggest city in Japan, since Tokyo Metro - at around 42 million people - is officially an Administrative District and not a city) it is very limited by Japanese Standards.

It is possible to catch the Minato-Mirai Express subway train in Yokohama and arrive in Shibuya 29 minutes later. But that Express train does not run very often, depending on the day of the week and the time of day. You might have to wait over one hour to catch it, and save only12 minutes travel time.

By the way, the Minato-Mirai Line now extends from Shibuya to Shinjuku San-Chome, but under a different name. You remain on the same train after reaching Shibuya Station from Yokohama.

[Clay Clayton]

On 10/14/2022 at 12:39 PM, Hlitner said:

I will take this back to the original post about 5 pre-cruise nights in Yokohama.  While DW and I will often find a base for exploration (in any country), Yokohama would not be my choice for 5 days.  We would rather choose a neighborhood within Tokyo (such as Shujinku) because of its more convenient location.  Keep in mind that when you stay in Yokohama you might find yourself on a train for over 40 min (each way) to get to some major Tokyo hot spots.  While that is probably OK with some folks, it might be somewhat inconvenient to others.

 

Hank

But you can only make your custom cup o’noodles in Yokohama! 😂

[Hlitner]

Brucemuzz has been too quiet.:)  I find myself getting somewhat excited (and optimistic) that things will be relatively back to normal (in Japan) by early next year.  But, there is always this lingering (and perhaps irrational) doubt that Japan may impose some restrictions on cruise ships?  Am wondering if Brucemuzz can further enlighten us with his thoughts and whether he has heard anything regarding cruise operations in Japan and some of the other Asian countries (i.e. Taiwan, Korea, etc).

 

Hank