No Venice for our cruise!

[cruisemom42]

8 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

I had heard about this but funny Celebrity and RCL have not canceled Santorini this summer. Doesn't explain why we are also losing Crete. We booked this cruise in early 2021 instead of one with Celebrity because it was 14 days and had stops in both Santorini and Crete. Too late to cancel and go elsewhere. 

 

it's not a matter of canceling but of limiting traffic. Santorini has capped cruise passengers at 8,000 per day.  (Which is less than 3 mega ships.....). If there were already several ships there on the same day that your HAL cruise is calling, perhaps they confirmed their slots first and HAL is late to the party. 

 

It's odd that they are calling on Mykonos twice -- is this really a 14-day cruise or is it two 7-day cruises?

 

Which port in Crete are you losing? 

Edited April 10, 2022 by cruisemom42

[terrydtx]

1 minute ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

it's not a matter of canceling but of limiting traffic. Santorini has capped cruise passengers at 8,000 per day.  (Which is less than 3 mega ships.....). If there were already several ships there on the same day that your HAL cruise is calling, perhaps they confirmed their slots first and HAL is late to the party. 

 

It's odd that they are calling on Mykonos twice -- is this really a 14-day cruise or is it two 7-day cruises?

When we booked in Jan 2021 it was only a 14 day cruise and just this year it became available as a 14 day, 19 day and 7 day itineraries all departing Venice on September 21. For us it is not a B2B booking.  Mykonos up till today was only a one time stop.

 

According to the above points guy article the changes on daily cruise passengers caps went into effect in 2019, so this is not some last minute requirement put on HAL as this cruise has been available since 2020. 

[cruisemom42]

Just now, terrydtx said:

 

According to the above points guy article the changes on daily cruise passengers caps went into effect in 2019, so this is not some last minute requirement put on HAL as this cruise has been available since 2020. 

 

I'm not saying HAL didn't have it on their itinerary, just that they may not have made their final arrangements regarding port space for the 2022 Med season until after other lines had done so. Remember -- even three months ago (during the height of omicron) the summer European cruise season was looking pretty bleak.

 

 

 

[klsd]

32 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Could it be this?   https://thepointsguy.com/news/santorini-is-capping-cruise-ship-tourism/#:~:text=Officials in Santorini%2C the island,cruise ship arrivals at 8%2C000.

 

Something we are probably all going to have to look out for going forward as more and more ports (at least in the Med) are going to try various ways to cap tourist numbers and limit tourist overload. Venice, Santorini, and Dubrovnik are already making these changes.

I saw 7 cruise ships on schedule in port in Santorini for my June cruise.  That's in the neighborhood of 13,000 people. For anyone who has been there before, no way!  For multiple reasons I cancelled (figured that Istanbul might be replaced bc of the war.) I was going to make the Santorini stop a 'sea' day on the ship. The lines for the funicular will be horrendously long.

[cruisemom42]

Just now, klsd said:

I saw 7 cruise ships on schedule in port in Santorini for my June cruise.  That's in the neighborhood of 13,000 people. For anyone who has been there before, no way!  For multiple reasons I cancelled (figured that Istanbul might be replaced bc of the war.) I was going to make the Santorini stop a 'sea' day on the ship. The lines for the funicular will be horrendously long.

 

I wonder if some of those ships will be peeled back. Maybe Santorini was hedging its bets regarding what ships would actually still be in play for the season.

 

I agree with you regarding the overcrowding. It's one reason why I like to travel off-season. Santorini and Dubrovnik were delightful in early April a few years ago. Nothing like the seething mass of humanity that they can be in the summer months.

[terrydtx]

21 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I'm not saying HAL didn't have it on their itinerary, just that they may not have made their final arrangements regarding port space for the 2022 Med season until after other lines had done so. Remember -- even three months ago (during the height of omicron) the summer European cruise season was looking pretty bleak.

 

 

 

If this was the case, then it was very poor planning by the heads of HAL and just adds to my many reasons to never sail with HAL again.

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

Too late to cancel and go elsewhere. 

 

Why?

 

What about this itinerary on Celebrity Reflection that is R/T from Rome at about the same time -- seems to visit some of the ports you mentioned as being important to you -- Santorini, Istanbul, Ephesus -- without the current hassle of Venice...

 

And since it is shorter you could use the extra days by arranging to fly into or out of Venice and spend a couple of nights there either pre- or post-cruise. It's an easy trip by fast train from Rome.

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by cruisemom42

[terrydtx]

2 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

Why?

 

What about this itinerary on Celebrity Reflection that is R/T from Rome at about the same time -- seems to visit some of the ports you mentioned as being important to you -- Santorini, Istanbul, Ephesus -- without the current hassle of Venice...

We are already booked on the Aug 5th Reflection cruise out of Rome and our airfare is booked for that cruise and the following HAL cruise with a 7 day land tour in Florence and Venice in between. We originally had an Oceania Baltic cruise booked for the same dates as the Aug 5th Reflection cruise and the HAL Oosterdam was our following cruise.  We had air from Stockholm to Venice booked. We canceled the Baltic cruise when the war broke out as we did not want to go to Russia and had to eat the air cost to Venice. We then booked the Reflection  and added the air to Rome and home from Venice with HAL Flight ease for Business class seats at $2346pp on United and Delta both with only one stop from our home.  If we make any changes now we lose that great airfare and current BC would cost about $1500pp more today. Even with the changes we will still see much more of Greece on the HAL cruise and changing at this point is not an option.

[bennybear]

How disappointing that there have been so many changes, especially dropping Crete  and Santorini.   We had one cruise that they completely changed everything except embarkation.  Sorry this has happened,   Is this the Oosterdam? 

[terrydtx]

1 minute ago, bennybear said:

Is this the Oosterdam? 

Yes it is and the changes are for all summer cruises from and to Venice.

[bennybear]

Did they give a reason for dropping Crete,  I’m wondering if it’s fuel? 
it’s our favourite Greek island,  perhaps you can plan a land trip one day, we’ve been three times for a total of six weeks.  

[terrydtx]

1 minute ago, bennybear said:

Did they give a reason for dropping Crete,  I’m wondering if it’s fuel? 
it’s our favourite Greek island,  perhaps you can plan a land trip one day, we’ve been three times for a total of six weeks.  

No No No, these changes have been made in the last few days, and not one word about them from HAL to us or our TA.  Our cruise is the only one that canceled Crete but most of the other summer cruises lost Santorini. We only found the changes when the cruises all disappeared from the website on Wednesday and reappeared yesterday with the changes.  Our departure port was changed, and we lost Santorini and Crete and got a second visit to Mykonos and another boring sea day. We book Mediterranean cruises for the port stops not a bunch of sea days. Like I said before this will be our last with HAL.

[OlsSalt]

Cruise ports having been closed down for two year may well have triggered vast changes in local acceptance of any ,or even all cruise ships ever again.  This is not hard to understand, with both the growth in numbers and especially in size of cruise ships today.  

 

Some of the larger cities can probably still absorb and welcome cruise ship traffic. But others, I can't blame them for pulling the plug and reassessing how many and how much and how often to allow in the future. 

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Much of the issue with HAL planning on using Marghera and having to do a last minute switch to Trieste may have been out of their control.  It's quite possible that either the Port of Venice has stated no usage of the terminals at last minute, or Marghera has decided to cancel their docking space in favor of cargo operations (That happened in Dublin).  Marghera is NOT a passenger port and has ZERO passenger facilities.

 

Santorini and Dubrovnik had both previously announced port caps, but only recently have started announcing who gets space on which days I believe using a lottery system.  HAL may have left Santorini on the schedule to see if they got slots and on what days and waited until alternate ports could be confirmed before announcing changes. 

 

These things are complex and take time to work out contracts with ports, suppliers, excursion operators, etc.

[MAVIP]

1 hour ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

Much of the issue with HAL planning on using Marghera and having to do a last minute switch to Trieste may have been out of their control.  It's quite possible that either the Port of Venice has stated no usage of the terminals at last minute, or Marghera has decided to cancel their docking space in favor of cargo operations (That happened in Dublin).  Marghera is NOT a passenger port and has ZERO passenger facilities.

 

Santorini and Dubrovnik had both previously announced port caps, but only recently have started announcing who gets space on which days I believe using a lottery system.  HAL may have left Santorini on the schedule to see if they got slots and on what days and waited until alternate ports could be confirmed before announcing changes. 

 

These things are complex and take time to work out contracts with ports, suppliers, excursion operators, etc.

Thank you for this explanation (and OlsSalt too).  As my mother must have learned me a long long time ago: knowing everything helps understanding everything. 

[AtlantaCruiser72]

@MAVIP I may not be an expert, but sometimes I find doing a little logical thinking and being patient helps to understand the "why". 

 

Logically if HAL planned on Marghera and no longer are doing so there has to be a reason, and most likely forced upon them.  Logically there is no benefit to "hiding" information for months after a change is confirmed.  Logically the logistics of making the change take time to iron out details.  So therefore the logical conclusion is that the change was forced on HAL relatively recently, they waited to announce the change until they have the logistics sorted out, and now are in the process of rolling out the changes. 

 

No ulterior motive on the part of HAL, but it does all take time and some patience.

Edited April 10, 2022 by AtlantaCruiser72

[OlsSalt]

Fincantieri, who builds HAL ships, has a presence in both Marghera and Trieste: seeing what it takes to build these beauties I appreciate there would be NO tourist facilities in their Marghera ship building yards. Looks like more corporate office in Trieste?

 

https://www.fincantieri.com/globalassets/prodotti-servizi/navi-da-crociera/fincantieri-cruise-brochure.pdf

[Carnevale]

I am sorry that so many may miss Venice as it is a special gem that is worth experiencing.  I can understand your disappointment.  However, cruise ships have been a major source of the water problems Venice.  The wake they create (even at very slow speeds) significantly erodes the salt marsh shores of Venice which is a strong contributing factor in the flooding (or aqua alta as the Venetians call it) that is occurring far too often now and at levels that are very high (and hence very damaging to the city and her beautiful buildings).  To save Venice it is essential that cruise ships do not dock there.

 

 I hope those whose itineraries have changed due to regulations that have changed the rules for cruise ships can find a way to still get there as it is a magical place.  And while you will be inconvenienced by not docking there, I hope you can take some comfort in knowing that your changed itinerary is helping to save this unique place.

[gailellen12]

I am sure some people will be surprised by all the itinerary changes taking place. If it wasn’t for cruise critic I don’t know if I would know about them myself yet!

[Heartgrove]

On 4/10/2022 at 2:03 PM, terrydtx said:

No No No, these changes have been made in the last few days, and not one word about them from HAL to us or our TA.  Our cruise is the only one that canceled Crete but most of the other summer cruises lost Santorini. We only found the changes when the cruises all disappeared from the website on Wednesday and reappeared yesterday with the changes.  Our departure port was changed, and we lost Santorini and Crete and got a second visit to Mykonos and another boring sea day. We book Mediterranean cruises for the port stops not a bunch of sea days. Like I said before this will be our last with HAL.

 

Just curious if you have contacted HAL. The 7-day cruise (first portion of your 14-day) does show Santorini on the cruise map, not Mykonos.

[terrydtx]

34 minutes ago, Heartgrove said:

 

Just curious if you have contacted HAL. The 7-day cruise (first portion of your 14-day) does show Santorini on the cruise map, not Mykonos.

The maps have not been updated but when you click on "View Itinerary" you can see that Santorini is gone replaced by Mykonos and the departure port is Trieste. My TA is handling contacting HAL and requestion substantial OBC for the changes and inconvenience to our party. This is why I use a trusted and experienced TA.

[Storylady]

On 4/10/2022 at 8:00 AM, terrydtx said:

I had heard about this but funny Celebrity and RCL have not canceled Santorini this summer. Doesn't explain why we are also losing Crete. We booked this cruise in early 2021 instead of one with Celebrity because it was 14 days and had stops in both Santorini and Crete. Too late to cancel and go elsewhere. 

I knew we were going to lose Venice last year. Until the Italians get a cruise terminal near Venice is completed all the cruise lines have had to scramble for other ports such as Ravenna, Trieste and Marghera. We are trying Azamara for the first time and they are going to Ravenna, same distance from Venice. HAL does have a nine hour tour to Venice which would be excellent for first timers. We are going to do Trieste. But I am unhappy about missing Crete, one of the reasons we booked our August 28th Cruise. All the other ports we have been multiple times except for Toulon. If I had known sooner, we also would have booked a different cruise.
 

 

 

[ModMs]

I had wanted to book the July 28 12 day Mediterranean Odyssey, and had a lot of trouble with the HAL website (won't go into all the problems). Needless to say, I was unable to book the cruise so called to book over the phone this a.m. The agent told me HAL wasn't letting her do further bookings as they were working on the itinerary and that it had to do with Trieste.  She advised that I wait a couple of days.  Since I am also having problems with logging in and she wasn't able to help me with that, we are considering another cruiseline -- maybe. Thanks for all of your posts.

[OlsSalt]

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

The maps have not been updated but when you click on "View Itinerary" you can see that Santorini is gone replaced by Mykonos and the departure port is Trieste. My TA is handling contacting HAL and requestion substantial OBC for the changes and inconvenience to our party. This is why I use a trusted and experienced TA.

 

Considering the fine print found in the HAL cruise contract, I wonder what you are demanding as a "substantial" OBC compensation to make up for these unfortunate changes? You already stated you have no intention to use HAL again.

[terrydtx]

7 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Considering the fine print found in the HAL cruise contract, I wonder what you are demanding as a "substantial" OBC compensation to make up for these unfortunate changes? You already stated you have no intention to use HAL again.

There is no reason why I can't ask for the OBC, the fact that Celebrity has lied about this to me and my TA more than once is why. I am done with HAL and their product. The other fact that nothing has been sent to me or my TA about the changes is unacceptable. This is the  poorest of poor customer service. If I didn't have a large FCC to use by the end of this year, I would have canceled this cruise. So please do not lecture us about the fine print of their contract, HAL has handled this horribly.