Auto Gratuities- Yes or No?

[Jt4428]

3 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

 

This illustrates the point I was making.  The guaranteed wage your housekeeper is making is far more than he/she would make in their home country.  There's a reason why so many of them have iPhones, Apple Watches, etc.  For many waitresses back home, that 20% will go a lot further.  People just aren't as emotionally invested - we're programmed to think the waitress at home should get a "real job," but we shower the waitresses on the ship with lavish tips.

 

 

Sorry but I have never thought that a waitress should get a "real job". Many people work various jobs and different shifts because of childcare, being a caregiver etc. It's not your place to judge anyone.

[Itried4498]

9 minutes ago, Jt4428 said:

Sorry but I have never thought that a waitress should get a "real job". Many people work various jobs and different shifts because of childcare, being a caregiver etc. It's not your place to judge anyone.

 

I agree - after all, it's a narrative pushed by corporate America to justify low wages.  But my point is that people become so emotionally invested in tipping when cruising, traveling to low-wage environments like Mexico, even at Disney World, etc., but could care less about the low-wage environment back at home.  A good example: a few years ago we went to an AI in Punta Cana with my parents, and my parents showered the employees with hundreds of dollars in tips.  We ended up arriving home in the middle of the night (flight was delayed) and the only place open was Denny's, where my parents decided a meager tip -- to somebody working their butt off at 3AM -- was sufficient, and that they should get a "real job."  Reality is, the AI jobs are equivalent to domestic, union factory jobs of years past.  

 

If you want to make a true difference, instead of leaving generous tips on cruises or abroad, donate to a good chairty.

[Jt4428]

7 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

The workforce is beating down the doors to get these jobs at the "current rate"

When we were on oasis beginning of June our assistant waiter who was from India  told me that he would love to work as a server in a land based place like Miami but he would have to pay a sponsor like $20k to do that and he cannot afford that. Alot of corporations pay that sponsor fee for those employees when the companies recruit them from other countries. I know that because the partner in the accounting firm that audits our Financials got recruited from India to work in New york and his fee was paid by the company.

[rudeney]

52 minutes ago, Jt4428 said:

Sorry but I have never thought that a waitress should get a "real job". Many people work various jobs and different shifts because of childcare, being a caregiver etc. It's not your place to judge anyone.

 

Exactly!  I have encountered some FANTASTIC servers in places ranging from Waffle House to The Palm.  I can't say what their situations were, but they truly seemed to enjoy their jobs which in turn makes me enjoy my dining experience resulting in a larger gratuity.  

[the penguins]

8 hours ago, hotsauce126 said:

 

Why couldn't they do that? Virgin Voyages already does

Of course they could but until they do the only effect of removing your auto gratuities is to reduce the "pay" of a lot of crew members. Of course this is your  choice just accept the reality of it.

[FamilyCruiserUK]

12 hours ago, the penguins said:

In which case I think you are way off there as well. Lots of posts on different threads showing extra tips for cabin stewards as 💲5 on cruises of less than 5 nights and 💲10 for longer ones.

Sorry again i was just using a generic example based on what myself and friends often tip our cabin steward. I have no idea what other cabins tip, but assumed people from the US a very tipping culture would tip more then 5 or 10 for a week on top of the grats. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by FamilyCruiserUK

[hotsauce126]

4 hours ago, the penguins said:

Of course they could but until they do the only effect of removing your auto gratuities is to reduce the "pay" of a lot of crew members. Of course this is your  choice just accept the reality of it.

I never said anything about removing the auto gratuities, I was only responding to the person that said it would be impossible for royal to include gratuities in the cruise fare unless every other line did the same thing

[Jerseygirl1416]

10 hours ago, Itried4498 said:

 

I agree - after all, it's a narrative pushed by corporate America to justify low wages.  But my point is that people become so emotionally invested in tipping when cruising, traveling to low-wage environments like Mexico, even at Disney World, etc., but could care less about the low-wage environment back at home.  A good example: a few years ago we went to an AI in Punta Cana with my parents, and my parents showered the employees with hundreds of dollars in tips.  We ended up arriving home in the middle of the night (flight was delayed) and the only place open was Denny's, where my parents decided a meager tip -- to somebody working their butt off at 3AM -- was sufficient, and that they should get a "real job."  Reality is, the AI jobs are equivalent to domestic, union factory jobs of years past.  

 

If you want to make a true difference, instead of leaving generous tips on cruises or abroad, donate to a good chairty.

I think you’re so off base here. Most people who are generous on ship are generous in their everyday life. A giving spirit isn’t something that’s turned on and off. Not sure what your parents deal is but it’s not the norm.

[not-enough-cruising]

6 hours ago, the penguins said:

Of course they could but until they do the only effect of removing your auto gratuities is to reduce the "pay" of a lot of crew members. Of course this is your  choice just accept the reality of it.

Removing the tips has zero effect on the agreed upon contracted and guaranteed wages. 

[the penguins]

2 hours ago, hotsauce126 said:

I never said anything about removing the auto gratuities, I was only responding to the person that said it would be impossible for royal to include gratuities in the cruise fare unless every other line did the same thing

Indeed you did. I sort of answered 2 different points/posts in 1 reply. Sorry for any confusion. 

[the penguins]

5 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Removing the tips has zero effect on the agreed upon contracted and guaranteed wages. 

Of course it does as the Cruise Lines will be recruiting on the basis that there will tips on top of those basic wages. Do you really believe anyone would take the job of cabin steward or server if they thought that the majority of passengers would cancel the auto tips?

In my opinion there are only to honourable options to this:

1) If you decide to book with a company that clearly shows "auto tips" will be added you should accept that as part of the deal.

or 

2) If you can't accept "auto tips" then book with a company that doesn't require them.

 

 

 

 

[not-enough-cruising]

23 minutes ago, the penguins said:

Of course it does as the Cruise Lines will be recruiting on the basis that there will tips on top of those basic wages. Do you really believe anyone would take the job of cabin steward or server if they thought that the majority of passengers would cancel the auto tips?

In my opinion there are only to honourable options to this:

1) If you decide to book with a company that clearly shows "auto tips" will be added you should accept that as part of the deal.

or 

2) If you can't accept "auto tips" then book with a company that doesn't require them.

 

 

 

 

The crew contracts don’t read that way. 
 

The crew is guaranteed a wage, that is what they agree to.
Anyone expecting anything above and beyond what their contract says is just being unreasonable and setting themselves up for disappointment. 

Would you sign a contract where a portion of your salary was not guaranteed? Neither would I and neither does the ship’s crew.  
 

Gratuity is extra; above and beyond; and no one should budget on receiving them. 
 

The folks take the jobs as cabin steward and server because it pays over triple what they can make at home (guaranteed), tips not withstanding. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by not-enough-cruising

[snaefell]

1 hour ago, the penguins said:

Of course it does as the Cruise Lines will be recruiting on the basis that there will tips on top of those basic wages. Do you really believe anyone would take the job of cabin steward or server if they thought that the majority of passengers would cancel the auto tips?

In my opinion there are only to honourable options to this:

1) If you decide to book with a company that clearly shows "auto tips" will be added you should accept that as part of the deal.

or 

2) If you can't accept "auto tips" then book with a company that doesn't require them.

 

 

 

 

Depends on what you mean by showing clearly that you are expected to pay auto tips,do cruise lines have a big banner on their web site saying that the price we show for your cruise will have $X or £X added to it,I think not,I know from reading these forums that people only find out about them after they have booked!

[goldfish65]

Stingy people justifying their ways are hilarious to me! 

[FamilyCruiserUK]

4 minutes ago, goldfish65 said:

Stingy people justifying their ways are hilarious to me! 

People trying to enforce their views, culture, and "this is the way we do it in our country," on others always makes me cringe.

 

Its up to the individual and should be no concern of others.

[Itried4498]

1 hour ago, goldfish65 said:

Stingy people justifying their ways are hilarious to me! 

Au contraire.  I’d handily bet I’m one of the most generous persons on this forum, donating a large percentage of my time and income.  In contrast, the extent of “charity” for most forum members is leaving generous tips to well compensated cruise employees, since it’s their happy place and makes them feel good.  

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, goldfish65 said:

Stingy people justifying their ways are hilarious to me! 

In many instances here it is not an issue of being stingy at all.

The discussion at hand is two-fold as I see it. 
 

1. Some are comfortable tipping before service is rendered, other prefer to tip as services are renders, or at the conclusion. Neither group is stingy. 
 

2. Distribution of the facts and debunking of the misinformation about how the crew is paid, and what part the gratuity plays in that compensation. 

 

[yogimax]

20 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

well compensated cruise employees

Oxymoron.

 

Assuming you are talking about the waiters, assistant waiters and cabin attendants, not the captain.

 

 

[not-enough-cruising]

10 minutes ago, yogimax said:

Oxymoron.

 

Assuming you are talking about the waiters, assistant waiters and cabin attendants, not the captain.

 

 

No, the waiters, assistant waiters, and cabin attendants are very well compensated; that is an undeniable fact. Their minimum salary is dictated and regulated by international convention. 

[yogimax]

1 minute ago, not-enough-cruising said:

No, the waiters, assistant waiters, and cabin attendants are very well compensated; that is an undeniable fact. 

Uh, yes, it is deniable.

 

Since you are making the claim, to support it, please provide the salaries of waiters, assistant waiters and cabin attendants.

[Itried4498]

5 minutes ago, yogimax said:

Oxymoron.

 

Assuming you are talking about the waiters, assistant waiters and cabin attendants, not the captain.

 

 

Sometimes facts help.  In 2019, RCL reported the median wage for ship staff at roughly $20K.  That does not include gratuities.  That same year, the BLS reported the median personal income in the USA - that includes tips - at 34K.   Walmarts mean wage for a FT worker in the USA that year was just over $19K.
 

Keep in mind that while Americans pay federal, state (with few exceptions) and payroll taxes, many (if not most) cruise employees pay no taxes on their income (the US is one of the few nations to tax worldwide income).

 

And that’s not even getting into the benefits extended to cruise employees, including room and board.

 

About half of Columbians and over 2/3s of people living in India live in poverty, with median wages per month in the hundreds.  
 

[John&LaLa]

46 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

Au contraire.  I’d handily bet I’m one of the most generous persons on this forum, donating a large percentage of my time and income.  In contrast, the extent of “charity” for most forum members is leaving generous tips to well compensated cruise employees, since it’s their happy place and makes them feel good.  

 

I donate my time entertaining the good folks here. A lot of time😉🤣🤣

[John&LaLa]

9 minutes ago, yogimax said:

Uh, yes, it is deniable.

 

Since you are making the claim, to support it, please provide the salaries of waiters, assistant waiters and cabin attendants.

 

This might be helpful

[Seville2Cabo]

I guess I don't understand why people care what service providers make.  I tip per the custom of the country / ship I am in.  In Mexico, we do the same.  We give usually 20% and the fact that the minimum wage is only $5 per day does not factor in.  Yes you can have $300 US plus meals in Cabo and we still tip the 20%, just like we would in the US.

 

When we travel, I try to understand the norm for that area and tip accordingly.  I will say that giving my bags to the porter at the ship in Sydney and not give a tip was hard for me, but our friends we were traveling with from NZ said no tip needed.

 

I will say I usually tip after services are given with 2 exceptions  -bag boys get tip since I don't want to wait and watch them clean the clubs and a few times due to FCC's there was cash to spend that could not be a OBC, so we prepaid tips.  

 

I will say I like the tipping culture.  In general when traveling to non-tipping countries, the service sucks. 

 

[not-enough-cruising]

34 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

This might be helpful

And to expand on that for @yogimax the MINIMUM seafarer salary allowed for anyone working 70 hours a week is $1200 MONTHLY, as I said roughly 3 times the average pay in their home country.  
 

To reiterate, all this is not to be pro or anti “auto tip”. I am just setting the record straight, and refuse to allow anyone to believe the crew are under paid and taken advantage of. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by not-enough-cruising