HAL needs to drop Covid Testing

[JesseLivermore]

48 minutes ago, JesseLivermore said:

 

.  Hope CDC releasing them from guidelines will change things soon.  

Did those poor folks get a FCC at least? 

 

Read the thread. Looks like FCC but some pushback/hassle. I thought HAL was more CS friendly than other CCL 

[syesmar]

I’ve read a lot of Threads and a lot of articles on the general subject, but I’ve never seen an estimate of what a typical quarantine/ isolation costs the cruise line on average per day, per person, both onboard and off the ship. I know a number of factors are to be considered, from travel expenses to FCCs. Does anyone know?

[JesseLivermore]

Also Makes me wonder wow do they handle + tests prior to departure. My TA said full refund if you push vs FCC but YMMV? 

[Cruising-along]

15 hours ago, JesseLivermore said:

 

How does quarantine work if someone tests positive on ship?

 

14 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I can only answer based on what people have reported here since I haven't experienced it personally. To me, it sounds like a nightmare. For the most part it appears that Positive guests are separated from their families, moved out of their originally booked cabin and into an ocean view cabin, locked behind a firewall, fed room service and given free movie

 

Not saying it wouldn't be a nightmare, but HAL moves people into a verandah cabin, not an ocean view cabin.  Some other cruise lines do use ocean views for quarantine though. 

[BermudaBound2014]

15 minutes ago, Cruising-along said:

 

Not saying it wouldn't be a nightmare, but HAL moves people into a verandah cabin, not an ocean view cabin.  Some other cruise lines do use ocean views for quarantine though. 

 

Are you sure? I could have sworn I read those from the Hawaiian Cruise were moved to ocean view. I know it is common practice on other lines. I'll see if I can find the thread I'm referencing. 

[12cruise2]

I haven't read all replies to this thread, but I DID read the rules for the self-tests on HAL web site.  It says that the monitor of the test HAS to be affiliated with the manufacturer of the test. . .so not just any service can monitor our government tests or some other tests sold out there as self-tests with no monitoring as part of the test sale.  Just saying. . . . Below are the rules pulled off the site today 7/26:

 

"Vaccinated guests may use a medically observed self-test (sometimes referred to a at-home test) that meets the following criteria:

• Only medically observed self-tests will be accepted. The test must be a SARS-CoV-2 viral test (nucleic acid amplification test [NAAT] or antigen test) with Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Please note, antigen tests are accepted for fully vaccinated guests, but not for unvaccinated guests.
• The testing procedure must include a telehealth service affiliated with the manufacturer of the test that provides real-time supervision remotely through an audio and video connection. Some FDA-authorized self-tests that include a telehealth service may require a prescription. 
• The telehealth provider must confirm the person’s identity, observe the specimen collection and testing procedures, confirm the test result, and issue a report that meets the requirements of the acceptable proof of a negative COVID-19 test.

Holland America Line has partnered with Optum and Radeas so that U.S.-based vaccinated guests can order an FDA-authorized at-home antigen test kit, shipped to home. These at-home tests include a telehealth service. Please place your order with enough time to be shipped prior to your boarding. Order your Optum test kit online here * (2-pack for $69.99 or 3-pack for $99.99). Order your Radeas single pack for $45 here. An eMed 6-pack is available here."

Edited July 26, 2022 by 12cruise2

[Gray Lady]

There are good points made on both sides. And I can tell you, I am so totally ready to be done with COVID!! But COVID is not done with us. Speaking from experience, and I have posted before about some of the details, I can tell you my thoughts about testing and quarantine. Testing two days prior to embarkation or starting a land tour is too far out. This gives people a false sense of security. Many still travel by plane after the test. Unless everyone is wearing a high quality mask in crowded airports and on planes, there is no guarantee that you won’t get the virus. I believe proximity is a huge factor in transmission (not scientific, just based on personal experience). Do masks truly stop this new variant? They MAY help mitigate it. I do know they help stop the spread of germs. After taking the test, then people believe they are not going to get it. After arrival on ship or on their tour, they can then spread or catch it. (We wore masks the entire time from airport arrival to positive test, but we were in the minority. It still found DH.)
I think by testing this way, HAL helps cut down on their expenses. If you tested positive before boarding the ship, they would have to pay for your quarantine, food, airfare, etc. and lose the cruise money. 
If they didn’t test at all, and treated COVID like the common cold, then they COULD have entire ships full of sick people. Even vaxxed and boosted people can still get extremely ill, though the odds are you won’t. Each time you get sick also increases the chances of long COVID. If no testing was the case, what would have prevented us from continuing on our land tour knowing DH was positive and then infecting everyone else? Would that be the right thing to do? Would that be something that anyone would take a chance on? I know that I became sick due to close proximity in our quarantine room. I believe we would have infected most everyone on our tour. 
Quarantine is very expensive for the cruise lines. We were quarantined on land and they charge you either $550 or $650 a night depending on where you stay. They also allow $100 per person per diem for food. Transportation to the airport is paid as is the expenses for your flight change. HAL is also out our money for the rest of our land tour and our entire cruise, not to mention on-board incidentals. Our trip insurance will reimburse us first, but HAL will pay for anything they don’t. This is on top of them having empty hotel rooms and cabins due to our catching COVID. 

Yes, cruising is taking a chance. We knew that going in. We were hoping that others understood this, too. You gamble: sometimes you win; sometimes you lose. We will probably be mask wearers for the rest of our lives (we prefer not to) not only for us, but for others. Life has shifted for all. And the answers are always changing and evolving……

 

[JesseLivermore]

1 hour ago, Cruising-along said:

 

Not saying it wouldn't be a nightmare, but HAL moves people into a verandah cabin, not an ocean view cabin.  Some other cruise lines do use ocean views for quarantine though. 

 

that would be a huge difference.  Fresh air would be a must..

[Torquer]

1 hour ago, 12cruise2 said:

• The testing procedure must include a telehealth service affiliated with the manufacturer of the test that provides real-time supervision remotely through an audio and video connection. Some FDA-authorized self-tests that include a telehealth service may require a prescription. 

That is very interesting wording and I had not noticed it before.  I am not aware that any of these telehealth services are "affiliated with the manufacturer."  Yes, they may sell a particular manufacturers test kit on their website, but I would hardly call that "affiliated with the manufacturer."  For instance, I studied HAL's recommended partner OptumStore that sells the Abbott BinaxNow test kit.  I can find no evidence that OptumStore is a division or subsidiary of Abbott Laboratories Inc.  I think the purpose of HAL's statement is that the telehealth service has to understand the instructions for administering the test.  Practically speaking, numerous people on Cruise Critic have reportedly used a telehealth service for testing and their own supplied test kit with no problems with HAL refusing to accept it.

[StLouisCruisers]

2 hours ago, Cruising-along said:

 

Not saying it wouldn't be a nightmare, but HAL moves people into a verandah cabin, not an ocean view cabin.  Some other cruise lines do use ocean views for quarantine though. 

 

2 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Are you sure? I could have sworn I read those from the Hawaiian Cruise were moved to ocean view. I know it is common practice on other lines. I'll see if I can find the thread I'm referencing. 

 

Carolyn is right about other cruise lines using ocean views for quarantine.  She was probably thinking of my recent Princess cruise where we both came down with Covid.  We were moved from our balcony cabin to the obstructed oceanview quarantine cabin.  One whole section of the ship housed crew and guests who came down with Covid.  If I'd had more fresh air I feel we could have been released a lot earlier.   I was there 8 days and DH was there 10 days.  They definitely don't allow you to be released in 5 days that some people feel is the length of a quarantine.  They tested us around day 6 and kept repeating that testing each morning until we tested negative.  

 

Princess returned a total of 18 days of our fare by FCC and it didn't take long - 10 days after our return home it was in our Princess account.  Many others haven't been paid back yet which I am mystified by.  How did we get ours so fast and people in hotel quarantine haven't been reimbursed yet.

[JeffElizabeth]

If we are testing on cruise ships, why not every airline flight? On flights,  you are closer together and the air system is similar. 

[Gray Lady]

17 minutes ago, StLouisCruisers said:

 

 

Carolyn is right about other cruise lines using ocean views for quarantine.  She was probably thinking of my recent Princess cruise where we both came down with Covid.  We were moved from our balcony cabin to the obstructed oceanview quarantine cabin.  One whole section of the ship housed crew and guests who came down with Covid.  If I'd had more fresh air I feel we could have been released a lot earlier.   I was there 8 days and DH was there 10 days.  They definitely don't allow you to be released in 5 days that some people feel is the length of a quarantine.  They tested us around day 6 and kept repeating that testing each morning until we tested negative.  

 

Princess returned a total of 18 days of our fare by FCC and it didn't take long - 10 days after our return home it was in our Princess account.  Many others haven't been paid back yet which I am mystified by.  How did we get ours so fast and people in hotel quarantine haven't been reimbursed yet.

I think posting the FCC doesn’t require any cash out of pocket. Reimbursement of funds for quarantine through trip insurance or from HAL requires actual cash. Also, trip insurance companies and HAL are backed waaaay up due to lack of help and an over-abundance of claims due to COVID.

[Cruising-along]

27 minutes ago, StLouisCruisers said:

 

 

Carolyn is right about other cruise lines using ocean views for quarantine.  She was probably thinking of my recent Princess cruise where we both came down with Covid.  We were moved from our balcony cabin to the obstructed oceanview quarantine cabin.  One whole section of the ship housed crew and guests who came down with Covid.  If I'd had more fresh air I feel we could have been released a lot earlier.   I was there 8 days and DH was there 10 days.  They definitely don't allow you to be released in 5 days that some people feel is the length of a quarantine.  They tested us around day 6 and kept repeating that testing each morning until we tested negative.  

 

Princess returned a total of 18 days of our fare by FCC and it didn't take long - 10 days after our return home it was in our Princess account.  Many others haven't been paid back yet which I am mystified by.  How did we get ours so fast and people in hotel quarantine haven't been reimbursed yet.

Yes I was thinking of you!

I'm almost positive that there has been a lot of discussion on CC about how HAL uses only balcony cabins for quarantine (of course we hope that will continue!).

[Gray Lady]

21 minutes ago, JeffElizabeth said:

If we are testing on cruise ships, why not every airline flight? On flights,  you are closer together and the air system is similar. 

My uninformed guess would be the length of time spent on airplanes versus cruise ships (hours versus days)and your cohorts. I can guarantee you that on almost every flight at least one person has COVID. It is all a crap-shoot.

[JesseLivermore]

8 minutes ago, Gray Lady said:

My uninformed guess would be the length of time spent on airplanes versus cruise ships (hours versus days)and your cohorts. I can guarantee you that on almost every flight at least one person has COVID. It is all a crap-shoot.

 

yes, dose+frequency much higher. 

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, StLouisCruisers said:

 

 

Carolyn is right about other cruise lines using ocean views for quarantine.  She was probably thinking of my recent Princess cruise where we both came down with Covid.  We were moved from our balcony cabin to the obstructed oceanview quarantine cabin.  One whole section of the ship housed crew and guests who came down with Covid.  If I'd had more fresh air I feel we could have been released a lot earlier.   I was there 8 days and DH was there 10 days.  They definitely don't allow you to be released in 5 days that some people feel is the length of a quarantine.  They tested us around day 6 and kept repeating that testing each morning until we tested negative.  

 

Princess returned a total of 18 days of our fare by FCC and it didn't take long - 10 days after our return home it was in our Princess account.  Many others haven't been paid back yet which I am mystified by.  How did we get ours so fast and people in hotel quarantine haven't been reimbursed yet.

There must have been a large number of people in quarantine.  Princess usually puts people in verandah first  (Dolphin deck on Regal Class, Aloha Deck on Grand class). On the Grand class there are 84 verandah cabins in what they have been using as quarantine cabins.  So the verandahs in the quarantine area must have already been occupied.

[aledobud]

Taking into account flying time, train time, excursion buses, dining, shows and casinos on our Delani land and sea cruise, we probably had 18 times our normal exposure time for similar crowded conditions and time period. We just got back Sunday and I am pretty sure I have Covid. At least one from our group has been confirmed. I pretty much expected to get it before we were done. As far as testing, I didn't have a big issue with it, other than the stress of waiting for a negative result. We had a family group of 16 and surprisingly we all made it on board. Just another cost and inconvenience we have to deal with to travel now. I had sticker shock on the luggage charges and was disappointed we could not do our own laundry on board.

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, JeffElizabeth said:

If we are testing on cruise ships, why not every airline flight? On flights,  you are closer together and the air system is similar. 

Quite a bit of difference in air systems.  On air planes the vents inserting air into the cabin is at the top edge of the cabin, the exhaust vents are at floor level.  As a result the air flow is downward and away from peoples faces.  Risk is pretty much limited to those immediately around you.  Biggest risk is during loading and unloading, the period when the plane is setting on the ground connected to ground systems, and from people walking past you going to/from the rest room.  In general risk is pretty small.  More risk from the time spent in the air port before and after flight.  YOu can lower risk by turning the vent above you to max and aim it in front of your face, flushing that area with filtered air, which would also reduce any drift from surrpounding individuals.

 

On cruise ships the risk is mostly in the common areas which usually have a few vents for the entire area without having a similar flow as the airplanes do.

[seaoma]

I just want to make sure I'm understanding the thinking on this thread.

 

You want to discontinue testing because it doesn't stop Covid from getting on the ship. This potentially puts more postive Covid cases onboard, since few of you cares whether pre-cruise testing catches 1, 2, 5 or more positive cases.

 

Now things will miraculously improve onboard?

 

We would have less quarantine and isolation onboard?

 

The cruises could sail full and the stock price will rise?

 

 

[Nymich]

6 minutes ago, seaoma said:

I just want to make sure I'm understanding the thinking on this thread.

 

You want to discontinue testing because it doesn't stop Covid from getting on the ship. This potentially puts more postive Covid cases onboard, since few of you cares whether pre-cruise testing catches 1, 2, 5 or more positive cases.

 

Now things will miraculously improve onboard?

 

We would have less quarantine and isolation onboard?

 

The cruises could sail full and the stock price will rise?

 

 

I think you got it!  J/k

[Gray Lady]

10 minutes ago, aledobud said:

Taking into account flying time, train time, excursion buses, dining, shows and casinos on our Delani land and sea cruise, we probably had 18 times our normal exposure time for similar crowded conditions and time period. We just got back Sunday and I am pretty sure I have Covid. At least one from our group has been confirmed. I pretty much expected to get it before we were done. As far as testing, I didn't have a big issue with it, other than the stress of waiting for a negative result. We had a family group of 16 and surprisingly we all made it on board. Just another cost and inconvenience we have to deal with to travel now. I had sticker shock on the luggage charges and was disappointed we could not do our own laundry on board.

I am sorry to hear that you are now sick. There are so many opportunities for that darned virus to use you as a host! I am glad that you were at least able to have your vacation before coming down with it. We never made it out of Denali and missed our first cruise ever. Once we get our reimbursements we are deciding if we even want to try a cruise again next year. Hope you have a speedy recovery. Be glad at least you are home and not in quarantine somewhere else.

[rubytue]

23 hours ago, Mary229 said:

There is no proof that testing mitigates.  Show me a study of any infectious disease where testing mitigates transmission - any disease, forget covid.    Testing is effective for  diagnosis not prevention.

Test-trace-isolate is a fundamental public health strategy. You may have heard of it’s origins in “Typhoid Mary”. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3959940/

 

a few other journal articles discussing it more recently. 

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0263597

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8836351/

But, I do acknowledge the genie is out if the bottle here. We never broke the chain if transmission like we needed to 2 years ago. Partially because Covid is infectious before symptoms. It is the perfect virus, reproduces itself *before* the person gets sick. And that’s what makes it so tough to deal with. Since the person doesn’t feel sick, they say “I’m not sick, why test me.” But, you can still be infectious, and you’ll (probably) get sick in a few days. 
 

Personally, I try to see both sides of the argument. I get the fatigue. I get the frustration. But, because we can’t do perfect, we shouldn’t give up on good. We can’t stop everything, but does that mean we shouldn’t do anything?

 

[albingirl]

1 hour ago, seaoma said:

I just want to make sure I'm understanding the thinking on this thread.

 

You want to discontinue testing because it doesn't stop Covid from getting on the ship. This potentially puts more postive Covid cases onboard, since few of you cares whether pre-cruise testing catches 1, 2, 5 or more positive cases.

 

Now things will miraculously improve onboard?

 

We would have less quarantine and isolation onboard?

 

The cruises could sail full and the stock price will rise?

 

 

this ^

[JesseLivermore]

 

Parents have been boosted, we haven't. Ok for all to get test on Fri? (2 days b/f AK embark)   

 

Trying to be extra careful this week but like others have said we have travel b/f getting to cruise too. Do they spot check prior to embark during cruise or just temp. check/symptoms driven? 

Edited July 26, 2022 by JesseLivermore

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, JesseLivermore said:

 

that would be a huge difference.  Fresh air would be a must..

Every cabin, on every ship, of every cruise line gets fresh air continually.  The entire air volume of every cabin is changed out 6-8 times every hour.  And every bit of that fresh air supply comes from outside the ship.

Edited July 26, 2022 by chengkp75