Did P&O Order the Wrong Ships?

[zap99]

I hear that Bollete is limping back to port with a cracked propeller and will need to go into dry Dock. hence cancellations.

[majortom10]

13 minutes ago, zap99 said:

I hear that Bollete is limping back to port with a cracked propeller and will need to go into dry Dock. hence cancellations.

No Bolette's cruises that have been cancelled are in December because of lack of bookings and there are 4. She is due back in service for her Christmas cruise. The Balmoral has propeller issues and her next cruise has been cancelled so she can go into dry dock for repairs.

Edited August 27, 2022 by majortom10

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, Host Sharon said:

As someone with cruises booked on Saga and Fred, I can say Fred is quite a lot more expensive for what you get - having to add on transport and tips alone, neither of which are optional. Where Fred win however, is their choice of itineraries and ports, only accessible to smaller ships. I have also heard on the grapevine rumours Saga are considering a third new build, powered by hydrogen.  On my recent Baltic cruise with Saga there were a substantial number of P&O refugees looking for the type of cruise P&O used to offer. I didn't hear anyone say they would return to P&O. 

Thank you for confirming the price differential.

Whilst Fred have some interesting itineraries,  I am not sure that is sufficient to keep their business model afloat (sic).

[terrierjohn]

3 hours ago, wowzz said:

Some are subsidiary brands of the main cruise lines.

 But presumably luxury subsidiaries, none of which will offer prices competing with P&O?

[wowzz]

8 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

 But presumably luxury subsidiaries, none of which will offer prices competing with P&O?

Absolutely. 

But, some people seem to assume that the only way to  make a profit is through mass turnover, which is patently untrue. 

It is not the actual amount of profit generated, rather the ROI. Look no further than Viking for an example. 

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

Absolutely. 

But, some people seem to assume that the only way to  make a profit is through mass turnover, which is patently untrue. 

It is not the actual amount of profit generated, rather the ROI. Look no further than Viking for an example. 

Very true, but most ex P&O customers do not want to pay Vikings prices, or any of the other new small ship cruise lines prices.

[wowzz]

19 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Very true, but most ex P&O customers do not want to pay Vikings prices, or any of the other new small ship cruise lines prices.

I agree.  So what will those customers do when P&O only have "large" ships left ?

Small ships have premium pricing- just an unfortunate case of reality.

[davecttr]

7 hours ago, wowzz said:

I agree.  So what will those customers do when P&O only have "large" ships left ?

Small ships have premium pricing- just an unfortunate case of reality.

Take less cruises a year. If the price for an upmarket cruise is double halve the number of cruises or keep using P&O and double the amount of moaning.

[Cruisemeister2002]

On 8/26/2022 at 11:39 PM, wowzz said:

The ship has been pulled out of service due to insufficient demand - and yet so many posters on here are adamant that P&O are ignoring those who dislike large ships. Yet Fred cannot fill a small ship .

I think it depends on what is regarded as small. I would say a small ship holds about 700 passengers. Most of these tend to be top end cruise ships with top end prices. P&O I would suggest never had or have had problems filling Aurora, Oriana or Oceana all around 1800-1900 passengers which nowadays I suppose is either classed a medium or small because many are now coming in at 5,000+. Maybe and I class myself as one of them we view small ships around 1800 passengers. Beside P&O no longer have Victoria (Formerly Sea Princess), Artemis or Adonia and I presume there's no plan to bring ships of their size back into the fleet. Though I would love to see them bring in similar size replacements for Oriana and Oceana and when she does retire, Aurora. 

[jeanlyon]

3 hours ago, davecttr said:

Take less cruises a year. If the price for an upmarket cruise is double halve the number of cruises or keep using P&O and double the amount of moaning.

Agree.  We are going to do a Fred cruise in 2024 and that will be it for that year.  Cruising has lost some of its appeal for us.

[zap99]

3 hours ago, davecttr said:

Take less cruises a year. If the price for an upmarket cruise is double halve the number of cruises or keep using P&O and double the amount of moaning.

Many folk like big ships and have memories of hanging over the side of little ships in rough seas.  On Anthem next Sunday, so can compare it with our little ship cruise on Silhouette and Britainnia this year. It might be stating the obvious, but if these stunning small ships are so blooming good, why do folk on those cruise lines threads moan just as much as this one. I also note that some of the moaners don't cruise anymore. 

 

[yorkshirephil]

19 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Agree.  We are going to do a Fred cruise in 2024 and that will be it for that year.  Cruising has lost some of its appeal for us.

We thought that Jean, but once we had cruised again it was like coming home.

[jeanlyon]

3 hours ago, yorkshirephil said:

We thought that Jean, but once we had cruised again it was like coming home.

We will see.  Our next P&O is October 2023 on Aurora, as long as they don't sell her!!   Friend has just cruised on Fred's Bolette, so looking forward to hearing how she found it.  I think 19 night cruises are no longer for us.  2 weeks might be better.

Edited August 28, 2022 by jeanlyon

[jimbo1683]

Over time there is going to be fewer and fewer people who have experienced 'small' ships so the large ships become the norm (if they're not already) and that's what people will know cruising to be. It's just another industry trying to change and stay relevant in a rapidly changing world.

[jeanlyon]

1 hour ago, jimbo1683 said:

Over time there is going to be fewer and fewer people who have experienced 'small' ships so the large ships become the norm (if they're not already) and that's what people will know cruising to be. It's just another industry trying to change and stay relevant in a rapidly changing world.

Agree, but that's when our crusing ends.  We tried Azura and hated her, so the bigger ones are out of thr question.

 

[FangedRose]

1 hour ago, jeanlyon said:

Agree, but that's when our crusing ends.  We tried Azura and hated her, so the bigger ones are out of thr question.

 

I don't particularly like Azura or Ventura, but love Britannia. I also like Aurora and Arcadia. It's not the size that matters.

[Snow Hill]

1 hour ago, jeanlyon said:

Agree, but that's when our crusing ends.  We tried Azura and hated her, so the bigger ones are out of thr question.

 

We have been on Azura twice, We are OK with her, but didn’t like Britannia. Couple of cruises each on Arcadia, Oceana and Aurora, doubt we will entertain going on Iona or “Our Vera” given their size and number of passengers. Hence if we did eventually book a cruise, it may not be with P&O.

[wowzz]

3 hours ago, jimbo1683 said:

Over time there is going to be fewer and fewer people who have experienced 'small' ships so the large ships become the norm (if they're not already) and that's what people will know cruising to be. It's just another industry trying to change and stay relevant in a rapidly changing world.

Actually I disagree. There are plenty of small ships out there  (Viking, Saga, Regent Seven Seas etc) that are extremely profitable.  But, only those with a certain budget can afford them.  

No different to any other holiday really - your choice is determined by your budget.

Edited August 28, 2022 by wowzz

[Yorkypete]

44 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Actually I disagree. There are plenty of small ships out there  (Viking, Saga, Regent Seven Seas etc) that are extremely profitable.  But, only those with a certain budget can afford them.  

No different to any other holiday really - your choice is determined by your budget.

Personally like both Indy and Britannia. I don't know if they are classed as big ships or not. The only thing I liked about Iona was the Quays. I thought that for such a large ship it had very little in it...no ice shows, no crazy golf etc.

 

[zap99]

9 minutes ago, Yorkypete said:

Personally like both Indy and Britannia. I don't know if they are classed as big ships or not. The only thing I liked about Iona was the Quays. I thought that for such a large ship it had very little in it...no ice shows, no crazy golf etc.

 

In the old days, when Aurora was built it was considered a big ship, 76,000 tonnes. I wonder how many folk said ' I'm not going on that beast, its like a block of flats '.?

 

[wowzz]

11 minutes ago, Yorkypete said:

Personally like both Indy and Britannia. I don't know if they are classed as big ships or not. The only thing I liked about Iona was the Quays. I thought that for such a large ship it had very little in it...no ice shows, no crazy golf etc.

 

It's a good point. Nowadays what constitutes a big ship ?

So, leaving aside the niche 200 pax ships,  my thoughts are:

1000 pax  - small

1000 to 2500 pax - medium

2,500 to 4000 pax - large 

4000 +  gigantic.

Other classifications are available !

[Megabear2]

4 hours ago, wowzz said:

It's a good point. Nowadays what constitutes a big ship ?

So, leaving aside the niche 200 pax ships,  my thoughts are:

1000 pax  - small

1000 to 2500 pax - medium

2,500 to 4000 pax - large 

4000 +  gigantic.

Other classifications are available !

Interesting classification class there Wowzz.  This puts Aurora, Arcadia, Queen Elizabeth and Queen Victoria in the medium ships category with QM2 just squeezing in to the large one. Balmoral, Bollette and Borealis are also medium along with the Marella fleet.

 

Having sailed on all for the former and Marella Explorer in her previous identity under RCI, the standout for me is that on QM2 she never feels full and I have heard some describe her as "soulless" as a result yet per passenger ratio and space she offers more than any of the other "medium" ships.  This would seem to indicate for "classic" crusing the size isn't relevant but the cruise lines' use and ideas for the ships are.  Cunard are sold as classic cruises whereas P&O tries to masquerade as classic crusing but only on these adult only ships.  Therein possibly  lies the answer to all the disillusionment.

[Cruisemeister2002]

20 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

We will see.  Our next P&O is October 2023 on Aurora, as long as they don't sell her!!   Friend has just cruised on Fred's Bolette, so looking forward to hearing how she found it.  I think 19 night cruises are no longer for us.  2 weeks might be better.

I was viewing P&O's itinerary for 2024 and Aurora and Arcadia are cruising to Canada and the US in September of that year. Sadly it must be said that the chances of her going much beyond then must be limited as Oriana has gone and she was four years older than Aurora. A lovely ship who we have had many very good cruises on along with Oriana. As I stated, I'd love P&O to at least bring in two more ships with around 2,000 passenger capacity as I would rather sail on one with 2,000 passengers than one with 5,000+ . I currently have a cruise booked on Iona for next year, but would prefer Arcadia (which incidentally we haven't been on) in Sept 2024 USA and Canada 30 night. God willing.

[majortom10]

15 minutes ago, Cruisemeister2002 said:

I was viewing P&O's itinerary for 2024 and Aurora and Arcadia are cruising to Canada and the US in September of that year. Sadly it must be said that the chances of her going much beyond then must be limited as Oriana has gone and she was four years older than Aurora. A lovely ship who we have had many very good cruises on along with Oriana. As I stated, I'd love P&O to at least bring in two more ships with around 2,000 passenger capacity as I would rather sail on one with 2,000 passengers than one with 5,000+ . I currently have a cruise booked on Iona for next year, but would prefer Arcadia (which incidentally we haven't been on) in Sept 2024 USA and Canada 30 night. God willing.

Sadly with P&O's past history of selling ships and cancelling cruises as long as they can find a buyer, which is the the big "IF" then I cant see at least one of those if not both lasting that long. By that time they will have 5 large ships with upwards of 15000+ berths a week to sell I think they will struggle and sell Aurora and Arcadia if there is a buyer.

[Cruisemeister2002]

11 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Sadly with P&O's past history of selling ships and cancelling cruises as long as they can find a buyer, which is the the big "IF" then I cant see at least one of those if not both lasting that long. By that time they will have 5 large ships with upwards of 15000+ berths a week to sell I think they will struggle and sell Aurora and Arcadia if there is a buyer.

I suppose Azura and Ventura will take over the Atlantic cruises. Neither of which I prefer to Aurora or Oriana. Oriana has obviously departed and Aurora must be close to going as is 22 years old and obviously ships of that age and capacity are more expensive to run than one running on LNG such as Iona and Arvia. I must admit the itineraries of both these ships don't fill me with excitement. One seems to go mainly to the Fiords and the other has the Med with the same itinerary month after month. Whether this is due to the availability of LNG or the size of these ships I don't know. It has been said that certain ports of call are out of bounds to this size of ship. Which again leads me to question the necessity for vessels of this size especially when comments have been made with regards to the facilities afforded by P&O on these ships stating that they don't for their size have what Royal Caribbean have. It does seem to an extent they are caught between a rock and a hard place as to whether to cater for old fogies such as myself or the younger generation. They are clearly putting off some of the older clientele with larger ships whilst not appealing to the younger generation by not having all the bells and whistles on the new ships.