Turn Down Service is going away - will daily room service be next?

[albingirl]

10 hours ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

I’m definitely not paying a few extra dollars.  Hal needs to stop giving out free cruises like candy to a few chosen ones.  I pay plenty for my cruises so some can coast.  When you see someone say they want a world cruise for a hundred bucks I just shake my head in disbelief.  That’s what you get for giving out too many free cruises.  It’s never enough. 

And then after getting the free cruise, they muse about getting upgrades. 

[daisy-mae]

So what about the folks who commit to paying what the cruise line is asking, then agitate for a better rate when the price drops (and even advise others on strategies to get a better price)? How is that different from paying the taxes and port fees to secure a stateroom that may go empty or may be priced at a lower rate in order to fill the ship?

[Mary229]

14 minutes ago, daisy-mae said:

So what about the folks who commit to paying what the cruise line is asking, then agitate for a better rate when the price drops (and even advise others on strategies to get a better price)? How is that different from paying the taxes and port fees to secure a stateroom that may go empty or may be priced at a lower rate in order to fill the ship?

I think what many people miss is that people are spending more on ship then ever before and people who gamble probably are likely to be some of those who spend the most.  

[mcrcruiser]

16 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I think what many people miss is that people are spending more on ship then ever before and people who gamble probably are likely to be some of those who spend the most.  

With out a doubt  the people who gamble on average are the biggest of all  spenders & not just  on a cruise  .For over 30 years I dealt with Casinos & hotels in Las Vegas  selling them products . Their economists knew exactly  how much the avg guest spent    & where they  spent it  .By far the percentages was on gambling  & entertainment . Remember years back food cost was actually cheap in todays Las Vegas terms   .There was a time    there was a hotel .named the Hacienda & it's day was one of the nicest properties .Well during my stays   from Mondays through Thursdays driving in from  the Los Angeles area ,at that time  ,I could get a room ,with   custom omletes , & all  the  other breakfast trimmings  for a total cost of just $10 per day   . Ince in awhile the management would even throw in a show for that price  . Of course that was many years a go  . Today  people mostly go to Las Vegas  to see pricy shows & dine in vert pricy restaurants  ,where gambling has actually decreased 

 

 Comparing the cruise business of today is similar to those olden Las Vegas days  of inexpensive  cruise cabins vs land  & inexpensive dining  ,so people will gamble more on a cruise ship 

 

 Adding to my comments  ,we also get casino deals with  Celebrity cruises   .The last deal we for was their Net 60 deal that gave us  Free gratuities ,the free drink package &  free wifi for 2   in all of the three   free  perks    .My game is on the craps table ;which is the best odds game    .Occasionally   I will play Texas  Holdem   . So we get lots of great deals  but never totally free .If we get a free balcony state room we do not get the free perks  ie  .  Perhaps HAL's  gambling arm does similar deals  . U kbow of those long cruises at $200  say for 24 or 25 days even B2B  but ,they are inside cabins & if it were me I have to  upgrade to a balcony  & pay vthe differences   .So in reality there still is no free lunch 

Edited October 23, 2022 by mcrcruiser

[albingirl]

34 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

With out a doubt  the people who gamble on average are the biggest of all  spenders & not just  on a cruise  .For over 30 years I dealt with Casinos & hotels in Las Vegas  selling them products . Their economists knew exactly  how much the avg guest spent    & where they  spent it  .By far the percentages was on gambling  & entertainment . Remember years back food cost was actually cheap in todays Las Vegas terms   .There was a time    there was a hotel .named the Hacienda & it's day was one of the nicest properties .Well during my stays   from Mondays through Thursdays driving in from  the Los Angeles area ,at that time  ,I could get a room ,with   custom omletes , & all  the  other breakfast trimmings  for a total cost of just $10 per day   . Ince in awhile the management would even throw in a show for that price  . Of course that was many years a go  . Today  people mostly go to Las Vegas  to see pricy shows & dine in vert pricy restaurants  ,where gambling has actually decreased 

 

 Comparing the cruise business of today is similar to those olden Las Vegas days  of inexpensive  cruise cabins vs land  & inexpensive dining  ,so people will gamble more on a cruise ship 

 

 Adding to my comments  ,we also get casino deals with  Celebrity cruises   .The last deal we for was their Net 60 deal that gave us  Free gratuities ,the free drink package &  free wifi for 2   in all of the three   free  perks    .My game is on the craps table ;which is the best odds game    .Occasionally   I will play Texas  Holdem   . So we get lots of great deals  but never totally free .If we get a free balcony state room we do not get the free perks  ie  .  Perhaps HAL's  gambling arm does similar deals  . U kbow of those long cruises at $200  say for 24 or 25 days even B2B  but ,they are inside cabins & if it were me I have to  upgrade to a balcony  & pay vthe differences   .So in reality there still is no free lunch 

 

[Florida_gal_50]

45 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I think what many people miss is that people are spending more on ship then ever before and people who gamble probably are likely to be some of those who spend the most.  

Maybe some.  There have been plenty of stories of people saying they spend the bare minimum in the casino and still get casino offers.  There have also been threads were people that don’t spend any time in the casino getting free cruises.  One was complaining that they still had to pay the port charge and crew incentive.  With a comment like that I’m willing to bet they won’t be money makers.

[Florida_gal_50]

1 hour ago, daisy-mae said:

So what about the folks who commit to paying what the cruise line is asking, then agitate for a better rate when the price drops (and even advise others on strategies to get a better price)? How is that different from paying the taxes and port fees to secure a stateroom that may go empty or may be priced at a lower rate in order to fill the ship?

Wow, that really grasping at straws.  Some of us are still working and have to plan around times we need to be at work so therefore have to book early.  I’ve had a couple of price reductions before final payment on refundable fares.  Why wouldn’t I take advantage?   I’m not a trust fund baby and didn’t grow up with money so I watch what I do have.  I can assure you my cruises are far from free.  If there wasn’t a constant barrage of threads about free cruises there wouldn’t be people complaining about them.  Just as people that endlessly brag about them I see it fair game to make comments about them. When I do that I get jumped all over by the some of the same people.

[Mary229]

@Florida_gal_50  here is one quote from a single article of many like minded articles indicating the new gold rush is onboard spending.  This also helps explain the push for bundled packages. I think the new model may be low fares with a whole menu of add on pay for items.  I have mixed feelings on that model but it seems to be trending.  (Like you I have not had a free cruise offer.  Perhaps my jealousy is what causes me to bargain with them for perks and upgrades😉)
 

“Guests are spending at least 30% more aboard ships across all categories when compared to 2019, Liberty said, adding that approximately 60% of guests book onboard activities before embarkation. During the second half of 2022, pre-cruise revenue is up over 40% versus 2019 levels”

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Royal-Caribbean-earnings-Q2-2022

[Florida_gal_50]

7 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

@Florida_gal_50  here is one quote from a single article of many like minded articles indicating the new gold rush is onboard spending.  This also helps explain the push for bundled packages. I think the new model may be low fares with a whole menu of add on pay for items.  I have mixed feelings on that model but it seems to be trending.  (Like you I have not had a free cruise offer.  Perhaps my jealousy is what causes me to bargain with them for perks and upgrades😉)
 

“Guests are spending at least 30% more aboard ships across all categories when compared to 2019, Liberty said, adding that approximately 60% of guests book onboard activities before embarkation. During the second half of 2022, pre-cruise revenue is up over 40% versus 2019 levels”

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Royal-Caribbean-earnings-Q2-2022

I hope that’s true for the sake of all cruise lines.  I spent a lot before the pandemic and I spend a lot now.  

[Guest ldtr]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

@Florida_gal_50  here is one quote from a single article of many like minded articles indicating the new gold rush is onboard spending.  This also helps explain the push for bundled packages. I think the new model may be low fares with a whole menu of add on pay for items.  I have mixed feelings on that model but it seems to be trending.  (Like you I have not had a free cruise offer.  Perhaps my jealousy is what causes me to bargain with them for perks and upgrades😉)
 

“Guests are spending at least 30% more aboard ships across all categories when compared to 2019, Liberty said, adding that approximately 60% of guests book onboard activities before embarkation. During the second half of 2022, pre-cruise revenue is up over 40% versus 2019 levels”

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Royal-Caribbean-earnings-Q2-2022

 not so much add ons,as the more inclusive fare structures that lock in more on revenue reported as onboard sales.

 

on board spend was about 27 percent for all of the CCL lines pre covid. The push for inclusive fares is what has raised the percentage (the onboard revenue includes the difference between the base fare and the inclusive fare) so there is not necessarily more on board selling, just demonstrating how the inclusive fares are generating more profits for the cruise lines.

Edited October 23, 2022 by ldtr

[Mary229]

3 minutes ago, ldtr said:

 not so much add ons,as the more inclusive fare structures that lock in more on revenue reported as onboard sales.

 

on board spend was about 27 percent for all of the CCL lines pre covid. The push for inclusive fares is what has raised the percentage (the onboard revenue includes the difference between the base fare and the inclusive fare) so there is not necessarily more on board selling, just demonstrating how the inclusive fares are generating more profits for the cruise lines.

I don’t disagree with you but that is not what the article indicates.  It simply indicates people are booking activities online, that includes specialty dining, cabanas, drink packages, spa services, shore excursions and many other services.    He specifies only “recreational activities”.  
 

It seems there are two models in testing.  The first is the bundled package as part of the fare and the second being a very basic fare with a menu of add ons.  I expect to see more menu items such as bundled specialty dining packages, buy so many shore excursions for a set discounted price and so on.  
 

As to personal anecdote, I book my own then pass on to TA. When I have called for the mid tier fare in the past there was a strong push for HIA but in recent times they ask do I want it then drop it without extolling it’s virtues. As to HIA it is constantly being tinkered with and I think it will slowly evolve into a menu.  

[Guest ldtr]

4 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I don’t disagree with you but that is not what the article indicates.  It simply indicates people are booking activities online, that includes specialty dining, cabanas, drink packages, spa services, shore excursions and many other services.    He specifies only “recreational activities”.  
 

It seems there are two models in testing.  The first is the bundled package as part of the fare and the second being a very basic fare with a menu of add ons.  I expect to see more menu items such as bundled specialty dining packages, buy so many shore excursions for a set discounted price and so on.  
 

As to personal anecdote, I book my own then pass on to TA. When I have called for the mid tier fare in the past there was a strong push for HIA but in recent times they ask do I want it then drop it without extolling it’s virtues. As to HIA it is constantly being tinkered with and I think it will slowly evolve into a menu.  

You read and my read is a bit different.  There was two different things mentioned in the article.  1. That total onboard spend is up and now over 30% of cruise revenue.  That is certainly true but a lot of that is do to the inclusive fares.  (which now lock people in to the drink packages, internet, etc instead of them buying some of them or none of them on board).  Because of those inclusive fares more people are getting those items when they initially book, not buying them ala Carte after boarding the ship.  Does not matter when, or what mechanism the revenue for them is still considered to be on board revenue.

 

The second part was that now over 40% of the onboard spend is booked prior to the cruise being boarded.  Again some of that is due to the inclusive fares, some is due to the widespread use of the new apps that some dislike because they tend to make those services pretty visible and pretty easy to book in advance of the cruise. 

 

Pretty much the winner with most of the main stream cruise line brands is one or two tiers of inclusive fares in addition to the basic fare.  HAL is still lagging the others in the adaption of some changes (for example they are pretty much the only main stream US focused brand that has either not adopted or at least indicated a move to ship within a ship model (Princess now has with their new Sun Princess design) and is pretty much the only main stream line not to lock in most of the tier pricing designed.  HAL is still treating each offer as somewhat unique, but seems to be zeroing in on a design.  Otherwise the features of the tiers tend to look mainly the same across the brands with some difference dues to brand specific features such as NCLs dining packages, due to their focus on venues other that the MDR.

[Mary229]

11 minutes ago, ldtr said:

The second part was that now over 40% of the onboard spend is booked prior to the cruise being boarded.  Again some of that is due to the inclusive fares, some is due to the widespread use of the new apps that some dislike because they tend to make those services pretty visible and pretty easy to book in advance of the cruise. 

This is the crux of our differences in analysis.  I can certainly see your point of view but I am thinking there are marketing promotions after the initial purchase to keep the customer coming back to their website to buy more.  This also serves to cement the loyalty of the customer.  Any way they can get into your presence is beneficial and they have to do so without officially spamming you.  
 

I often laughed that the reason HAL kept changing boarding times and sending out the notice is simply to get the customer to the website to consider other purchase options. 

 

On the other hand bundling everything is one and done. 

[albingirl]

10 hours ago, albingirl said:

 

200 dollars for 24 to 25 days is a free lunch. No joke as Joe says.

[HUNKY]

Recently off Koningsdam out of Vancouver.  We had turn down service along with chocolates!  Don't remember having to ask or opt in for that service.

 

It was nice having a cabin steward with an assistant.  (Didn't have that on Royal in an owner's suite.)

[CruisingGrandmaW]

On 10/22/2022 at 1:05 PM, CruisingGrandmaW said:

Hi All:

@The-Inside-Cabin  Interesting reading the complaints of passengers currently sailing on the Seabourn.  I've also read complaints by passengers sailing on Celebrity, RCL, NCL etc.

Puts our complaints/disappointments with HAL into perspective.

 

Reading "Calm Down Dear"'s narrative - makes me REALLY glad I choose HAL.

It was in her her Post #27 on Pg 2 that made me REALLY glad I don't cruise Seabourtn.

Can't believe her comment - perhaps that's why her CC Name is CatLover54 as comment was really "catty".  Makes me cringe that there are people like this in our World.

 

This is what CatLover54 said amongst all the complaints about service etc.

"I remember a SB voyage a few years ago Athens to Istanbul where a well-off looking Turk with his quiet black clad wife quietly sitting nearby, blasted a soccer game, in Turkish, during dinner at The Restaurant -- cheering along as needed.  Even when I asked staff to say something to them, the staff just smiled uncomfortably and did squat."

[StLouisCruisers]

20 minutes ago, CruisingGrandmaW said:

It was in her her Post #27 on Pg 2 that made me REALLY glad I don't cruise Seabourtn.

Can't believe her comment - perhaps that's why her CC Name is CatLover54 as comment was really "catty".  Makes me cringe that there are people like this in our World.

 

This is what CatLover54 said amongst all the complaints about service etc.

"I remember a SB voyage a few years ago Athens to Istanbul where a well-off looking Turk with his quiet black clad wife quietly sitting nearby, blasted a soccer game, in Turkish, during dinner at The Restaurant -- cheering along as needed.  Even when I asked staff to say something to them, the staff just smiled uncomfortably and did squat."

 

 

I have cruised two Seabourn cruises (both 24 days), and can say I didn't meet any nasty people like you describe here on the ship.  Please don't hold it against the cruise line for what some disrespectful person says.  They are on every cruise line.  Our Seabourn cruises were dreams come true and we enjoyed the staff and passengers very much.🙂

[Michel D99]

13 hours ago, HUNKY said:

Recently off Koningsdam out of Vancouver.  We had turn down service along with chocolates!  Don't remember having to ask or opt in for that service.

 

It was nice having a cabin steward with an assistant.  (Didn't have that on Royal in an owner's suite.)

Hi Hunky, that is completely different on Rotterdam. Yes a steward with assistant and turn down service on request. Twice during a 13 days cruise a huge sign on my bed saying "a gift for you" together with a tiny piece of chocolate 😏

[LMaxwell]

On 10/22/2022 at 9:37 PM, Florida_gal_50 said:

I’m definitely not paying a few extra dollars.  Hal needs to stop giving out free cruises like candy to a few chosen ones.  I pay plenty for my cruises so some can coast.  When you see someone say they want a world cruise for a hundred bucks I just shake my head in disbelief.  That’s what you get for giving out too many free cruises.  It’s never enough. 

That's just marketing. Nothing is free.  That has nothing to do with the removal and dimunition of paid for services. 

[love_the_sea]

I was recently on the Zaandam. Yes there was a "request card" in our cabin but our cabin steward said we had to choose between morning or evening service. He did explain that on Dressy Nights we would get chocolates. I kept a copy of the card and now upon rereading it, it appears that we could have requested evening turndown service as an addition to our morning service. We both decided we wanted morning service (we didn't want to make up our own beds!). We hung up our towels on the pegs on the bathroom door but they were almost always replaced anyway and we did get good service. But I missed the days of returning to the cabin after an evening "out" and having the low lights on and the room all tidy. Now I realize I could have asked for both. If I thought HAL would hire enough staff to not totally overwork the cabin stewards I would gladly ask for both! Actually the card lets you ask for other items and I think it is a nice touch. 

[Infi]

11 hours ago, love_the_sea said:

I was recently on the Zaandam. Yes there was a "request card" in our cabin but our cabin steward said we had to choose between morning or evening service. He did explain that on Dressy Nights we would get chocolates. I kept a copy of the card and now upon rereading it, it appears that we could have requested evening turndown service as an addition to our morning service. 

 

Thank you for sharing. Sailing on Zaandam in December and was wondering about the status of this policy. I'll be requesting service in both the morning and evening like we have always had before. 

[Infi]

On 10/23/2022 at 6:27 PM, ldtr said:

HAL is still lagging the others in the adaption of some changes (for example they are pretty much the only main stream US focused brand that has either not adopted or at least indicated a move to ship within a ship model (Princess now has with their new Sun Princess design) and is pretty much the only main stream line not to lock in most of the tier pricing designed.

 

I wanted to underscore this point about HAL simply following policies or changes that have already been implemented on other CCL brands. This forum likes to joke about the "Testerdam" being the guinea pig, but policies like once daily turndown service and the charges for select room service items were implemented on Carnival and Princess long before HAL adopted them. Carnival had once a day turndown service in 2019, perhaps earlier. Perhaps Carnival corp intrinsically knows these changes would not be as well-received or accepted on HAL, so that's why HAL is last in line to get them. Or perhaps they want to maintain the image that HAL is their premium brand. Who knows for sure?

 

For those who are HAL fans, it's worth it to keep up with news about other Carnival corp lines to see what changes may be afoot. I'm dreading the day HAL tries to implement charges for the majority of room service like Carnival or tries to remove the desk chairs from cabins like Princess. Won't be pretty!

[Mary229]

41 minutes ago, Infi said:

Carnival and Princess long before HAL adopted them. Carnival had once a day turndown service in 2019,

I was asked about the single service option in April 2019 on the Koningsdam, I requested morning service with an evening chocolate drop. This is not new.  

[Infi]

32 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I was asked about the single service option in April 2019 on the Koningsdam, I requested morning service with an evening chocolate drop. This is not new.  

 

What I was trying to say was it was a fleet-wide policy on Carnival at that time. Clearly it also existed, though in a one-off, ship-specific form, on HAL as well. Were it not for the industry shutdown, I would bet money HAL would have fully implemented this by 2020-21 and it would be done and dusted in October 2022.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Infi

[Mary229]

8 minutes ago, Infi said:

 

What I was trying to say was it was a fleet-wide policy on Carnival at that time. Clearly it also existed, though in a one-off, ship-specific form, on HAL as well. Were it not for the industry shutdown, I would bet money HAL would have fully implemented this by 2020-21 and it would be done and dusted in October 2022.

I agree, I agreed with your first post was just emphasizing it.  I think many of these changes have been slated for quite some time and are only now coming to light and some actually did begin prior to the shutdowns with little fanfare.   Much is being blamed on the current financial duress when it was just part of a trend or part of a long planned reduction of services.   It is always and forever about a cost benefit analysis and exchanging one “outdated” service with a newer trend.