Be Careful What You Buy on Board

[PWP-001]

1 hour ago, reallyitsmema said:

 

The compass is absolutely published.  It is available on your TV in your stateroom, it is available in the app, it is available in PDF form by scanning a QR code found on your TV in your stateroom or on a printed card on the vanity, and it is available in printed form from your cabin steward or from guest services.

You're splitting hairs and missing the point of the post.

 

So let me rephrase: 

 

Someone noted that they are outlined in The Compass... which also isn't published and automatically given in paper form to guests.

 

Further let me clarify with an example:

 

In my professional industry I would get a monthly publication delivered first class mail in paper form that was approximately 22 pages.  Most of the time, when I heard the squeak of the mail slot and looked over to see "The Ledger" as it was called, drop to the office floor, my world would stop and I would read it cover to cover-- because it was filled will important regulatory and mandatory items, including deadlines.

 

At some point, we received the "good news" that The Ledger would be available in PDF form rather than delivered in paper form.  Guess what?  Hardly anyone --myself included-- read it as religiously as when it was in paper form-- even though it contained the same type of critical information we needed.  Instead, we'd end up receiving no less than 3 to 5 emails nagging and reminding of that important stuff that was in The Ledger that no one read anymore!

 

That's exactly what happened on my recent RCL cruise:  I didn't read one word of The Compass.  Oh, I saw the QR code pasted to the wall in the rack near Guest Services where the The Compass used to be available, but didn't bother to scan or download.  So the usefulness of The Compass to convey important information has diminished.  In paper form, I read The Compass from cover to cover, and was sure to see anything deemed important.

 

In summary, to make it crystal clear, so that you aren't mislead again:

 

Since neither a customs form or The Compass is automatically placed in every stateroom without some intervention, PERHAPS it wouldn't be a bad idea for RCL to deliver and place in every occupied stateroom a standard "Disembarkation Reminders" paper that addresses procedures, the elimination of paper declaration customs forms for most people, explanation as to when a form must be completed, and a reminder of duty exempt limits.

 

THAT, to me, would be good service on RCL's part.  And perhaps would curtail embarrassing or stressful situations as the OP started this thread to relate.

 

PS-  Since I've read here that I can request that my room steward deliver The Compass daily, that's what I plan to do on my upcoming cruise.

 

 

[cruiselvr04]

We’ve never gone over our limit on the ship.  
 

I do think Royal should give an FYI to a purchaser so there’s no surprise getting off the ship.  Seasoned cruisers/travelers know these things but those who are not could be alarmed/surprised.  People don’t like to feel like criminals ( being escorted of the ship for an unknown reason.). If they were prepared it wouldn’t be such a big deal.  
 

We were stopped and searched once when we declared $0.  It was completely true but apparently they didn’t believe us and went through all our things, including my ship receipts which just showed food and drink purchases.  But they looked at every one of them.  

[Ret MP]

7 minutes ago, nolimits said:

Customs window is first place you get to declare purchases. Not entering US waters 

Apples and Oranges  or Watches and Drugs 

You can’t declare till off the ship 

That’s the problem You bought a watch and everybody that heard that alarm then saw you escorted to office by shipstaff not ship security is looking thinking Drugs or Worse

You should instruct your people not everyone is a criminal but catch and punish the ones that Are 

If I'm not mistaken, the customs declaration form hasn't been discontinued and made obsolete.  It is still available at the Guest Services.  

 

Like I said, many large cases are made from those little things.  A burnt out license plate bulb leads to many large drug busts.  A child crying and looks to having their hand held unusually hard can lead to a child abduction case.  A watch not being declared can lead to controlled substances busts.  And on and on!

 

And I'm not going to discuss procedures on a ship, that's a whole different animal of which I have no experience/expertise. 

 

AND those aren't my people!  I'm discussing Law Enforcement procedures, IN GENERAL.  If you don't like it, contact your Congressperson.  Don't try to change things thru me, I DON'T CARE how you feel about it.

 

 

[RedIguana]

20 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

Technically you violate the law when you enter into American waters if you are in possession of contraband.  A ship is not a safe haven.  The corridor (whatever that may be) from the ship to the CBP is a courtesy for you to present all items that should be declared.

A watch is not contraband, it is a legal item on which tax is due on as it is over the personal exemption. The corridor is not just a courtesy. Duty tax is due by the completion of your customs and border patrol processing, not when you enter federal waters, or disembark a mode of travel. 

[not-enough-cruising]

8 minutes ago, PWP-001 said:

You're splitting hairs and missing the point of the post.

 

So let me rephrase: 

 

Someone noted that they are outlined in The Compass... which also isn't published and automatically given in paper form to guests.

 

Further let me clarify with an example:

 

In my professional industry I would get a monthly publication delivered first class mail in paper form that was approximately 22 pages.  Most of the time, when I heard the squeak of the mail slot and looked over to see "The Ledger" as it was called, drop to the office floor, my world would stop and I would read it cover to cover-- because it was filled will important regulatory and mandatory items, including deadlines.

 

At some point, we received the "good news" that The Ledger would be available in PDF form rather than delivered in paper form.  Guess what?  Hardly anyone --myself included-- read it as religiously as when it was in paper form-- even though it contained the same type of critical information we needed.  Instead, we'd end up receiving no less than 3 to 5 emails nagging and reminding of that important stuff that was in The Ledger that no one read anymore!

 

That's exactly what happened on my recent RCL cruise:  I didn't read one word of The Compass.  Oh, I saw the QR code pasted to the wall in the rack near Guest Services where the The Compass used to be available, but didn't bother to scan or download.  So the usefulness of The Compass to convey important information has diminished.  In paper form, I read The Compass from cover to cover, and was sure to see anything deemed important.

 

In summary, to make it crystal clear, so that you aren't mislead again:

 

Since neither a customs form or The Compass is automatically placed in every stateroom without some intervention, PERHAPS it wouldn't be a bad idea for RCL to deliver and place in every occupied stateroom a standard "Disembarkation Reminders" paper that addresses procedures, the elimination of paper declaration customs forms for most people, explanation as to when a form must be completed, and a reminder of duty exempt limits.

 

THAT, to me, would be good service on RCL's part.  And perhaps would curtail embarrassing or stressful situations as the OP started this thread to relate.

 

PS-  Since I've read here that I can request that my room steward deliver The Compass daily, that's what I plan to do on my upcoming cruise.

 

 

However, you knew it was YOUR responsibility to read the “ledger”, and abide by the guidelines within. If you chose not to read the PDF version, did your employer extend the deadlines for you? Were you excused from a violation of a new policy because you didn’t read it? 
 

The argument is just nonsense. Personal responsibility is rapidly disappearing in this country, and many on this thread are defending it. 

[Ret MP]

16 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

Of course, I've got nothing to do with law enforcement ... but I've been a high school teacher for three decades, and I can relate to what you're saying:  When I need to talk to a student about something bad, Teaching 101 says, "Separate the student from the class."  My partner teacher and I kept two desks in the hall /between our two rooms for this purpose.  If a student was misbehaving, it was always good to take him away "from his audience".  90% of the time the negative behavior stopped when the student no longer needed to "show off" for others.  And if I was going to say something bad (you're failing this class, or I know you copied that paper from the internet), it was always better to say it in private.  So I totally understand separating the individual.  

 

Taking another tact, suppose he had bought that watch for someone as a gift?  It would've been bad for the cruise line to announce, "So that $$$$ watch you bought ..."  

For sure!  It's none of the seller's/ship's business what the purchaser is doing with the item.  Only that they must comply with ship and law enforcement requirements

[PWP-001]

25 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

Technically you violate the law when you enter into American waters if you are in possession of contraband.  A ship is not a safe haven.  The corridor (whatever that may be) from the ship to the CBP is a courtesy for you to present all items that should be declared.  If you do or don't, that's your decision.  However, technically you have already introduced items into the U.S.  There are many drug dealers/transporters/smugglers that get busted long before they make it to American real property.  Yes, I know we are talking about a watch here.  But, a lot of big cases are initiated by the small/little thing.  I always trained my people, make the small inquiries, there is a decent chance that they will bloom into something substantial.  

 

Perhaps for "contraband," as you describe.  But this discussion is about declaring goods that are being imported legally.  Specifically it was a watch.  

 

At issue here is the utilitarian way that those few who are known to be required to pay a duty are treated.  Reading these posts makes me realize the same type of incident may have occurred just several  people in front of me at disembarkation on my last cruise.  At the time, I was anxious to get off the ship and drive home, so I just was annoyed that I chose the wrong line, as the other moved without incident.  At the time, I thought the passenger had a declined credit card for their onboard account and this way RCL's way of flagging and forcing payment by not letting the pax off the ship until their account was paid.  I remember their was back and forth arguments and a hold up, but I never saw where the two or three in the party went.  I could discern that they were surprised and upset at being blocked.

 

Once off the ship I did wonder where a person would declare items.  I hadn't bought anything, so I didn't ask, but it seemed in Miami there just wasn't a place to go or stop.  For decades, European airports always had two paths:  Nothing to Declare and another line for those who did, while Miami had one path that I could see.

 

As long as the items are declared and duty paid, no crime has been committed and no contraband was involved.

[nolimits]

You seem to be missing it at no time did anyone who purchased a watch do anything Wrong ( but was treated wrong )

Whats Wrong is how the collection of the tax starts on ship at gangway 

either do it at purchase on ship or at customs window. You could  be flagged and then escorted into office  if you didn’t declare your purchase ( then a crime)

 

you bought 

ship knows they sold 

customs knows because ship told them 

Some of the retailed on Islands that have offices in states also report

[reallyitsmema]

24 minutes ago, PWP-001 said:

You're splitting hairs and missing the point of the post.

 

So let me rephrase: 

 

Someone noted that they are outlined in The Compass... which also isn't published and automatically given in paper form to guests.

 

Further let me clarify with an example:

 

In my professional industry I would get a monthly publication delivered first class mail in paper form that was approximately 22 pages.  Most of the time, when I heard the squeak of the mail slot and looked over to see "The Ledger" as it was called, drop to the office floor, my world would stop and I would read it cover to cover-- because it was filled will important regulatory and mandatory items, including deadlines.

 

At some point, we received the "good news" that The Ledger would be available in PDF form rather than delivered in paper form.  Guess what?  Hardly anyone --myself included-- read it as religiously as when it was in paper form-- even though it contained the same type of critical information we needed.  Instead, we'd end up receiving no less than 3 to 5 emails nagging and reminding of that important stuff that was in The Ledger that no one read anymore!

 

That's exactly what happened on my recent RCL cruise:  I didn't read one word of The Compass.  Oh, I saw the QR code pasted to the wall in the rack near Guest Services where the The Compass used to be available, but didn't bother to scan or download.  So the usefulness of The Compass to convey important information has diminished.  In paper form, I read The Compass from cover to cover, and was sure to see anything deemed important.

 

In summary, to make it crystal clear, so that you aren't mislead again:

 

Since neither a customs form or The Compass is automatically placed in every stateroom without some intervention, PERHAPS it wouldn't be a bad idea for RCL to deliver and place in every occupied stateroom a standard "Disembarkation Reminders" paper that addresses procedures, the elimination of paper declaration customs forms for most people, explanation as to when a form must be completed, and a reminder of duty exempt limits.

 

THAT, to me, would be good service on RCL's part.  And perhaps would curtail embarrassing or stressful situations as the OP started this thread to relate.

 

PS-  Since I've read here that I can request that my room steward deliver The Compass daily, that's what I plan to do on my upcoming cruise.

 

 

 

You stated the compass is not published, that is not true.  It is available in many forms.  The cruise line can not handhold every passenger and ask everyone which form they need the compass and make sure they read it.  

[Ret MP]

10 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

A watch is not contraband, it is a legal item on which tax is due on as it is over the personal exemption. The corridor is not just a courtesy. Duty tax is due by the completion of your customs and border patrol processing, not when you enter federal waters, or disembark a mode of travel. 

It all boils down to intent.  Which I'm not going to offer an educational seminar on here.  I will say that I never said that a "watch" was contraband, not until it is entered into a legal issue.  It could be a pencil of great value, a marshmallow of great value.  The issue is the value of something, not the item and the intent to pay the duty on it or not.   

 

The corridor is a courtesy in that they will not place you under arrest, handcuff, and read you your rights unless you try to discard something from your person, resist, and so on.  But, like the ship, it's not a safe haven.  However, the corridor, which is an inconvenience (as discussed earlier) is an opportunity to watch the subject for body language, listen to words/statements and so on.

 

What gets me thinking about this event is the fact that they did single out, apparently, this one person.  I'm not saying that there is/was any suspicious activity by the lady's son.  But, I ask myself, does the guy have a record, is he on a watch list of some kind, what was his activity while traveling, and on and on.  It could have been nothing more than a random check, just like TSA does with Pre-Check persons or a DWI check-point on the road somewhere.  

[Magicat]

Here's a question for the group.  When disembarking in Galveston and you have a bottle of alcohol (wine, spirits etc) do you declare it when you pass immigration just before leaving the terminal?  In our case we received our free bottle of wine for some reason and had not had the opportunity to drink it.  When asked if we had any booze we honestly replied yes.  They asked to see it, and informed us that we need to pay tax on it.  Since it was free we told them to keep it.  I think the paperwork for us to surrender it took longer than if we would have paid the $4 or $5 bucks.  Our Texan friends do it all the time and scolded us for declaring it.

So, do you declare booze in Galveston or any other port when returning to the US?

[PWP-001]

15 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

However, you knew it was YOUR responsibility to read the “ledger”, and abide by the guidelines within. If you chose not to read the PDF version, did your employer extend the deadlines for you? Were you excused from a violation of a new policy because you didn’t read it? 
 

The argument is just nonsense. Personal responsibility is rapidly disappearing in this country, and many on this thread are defending it. 

 

When you're done wagging your finger of responsibility, take the practical view by asking a few questions:

 

-Do you think that The Home Office (which is a better term rather than employer, since The Ledger publisher was NOT an employer and it wasn't an employer/employee relationship) wants to have the majority or their workforce miss deadlines or not do what was required?  

 

-Do you think that RCL wants guests to be embarrassed or run afoul of CBP duty requirements to declare?

 

The point is EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION.

 

Yes, the home office DID have to extend deadlines when thousands didn't meet it.  Yes, they had the power to childishly wag their finger and chastise us not being responsible citizens-- they could even sanction and fine us.  But they didn't.

 

 

 

 

[RedIguana]

3 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

 

The corridor is a courtesy in that they will not place you under arrest, handcuff, and read you your rights unless you try to discard something from your person, resist, and so on.  But, like the ship, it's not a safe haven.  However, the corridor, which is an inconvenience (as discussed earlier) is an opportunity to watch the subject for body language, listen to words/statements and so on.

Yeah, no. The corridor is not a courtesy, they have no probable cause to place you under arrest, and no reason to handcuff you or read you your rights as you are not under arrest. And in the case of the watch you could discard it and not be liable for the duty. No duty is due until completion of Customs and Border Patrol processing. 

[Ret MP]

1 minute ago, Magicat said:

Here's a question for the group.  When disembarking in Galveston and you have a bottle of alcohol (wine, spirits etc) do you declare it when you pass immigration just before leaving the terminal?  In our case we received our free bottle of wine for some reason and had not had the opportunity to drink it.  When asked if we had any booze we honestly replied yes.  They asked to see it, and informed us that we need to pay tax on it.  Since it was free we told them to keep it.  I think the paperwork for us to surrender it took longer than if we would have paid the $4 or $5 bucks.  Our Texan friends do it all the time and scolded us for declaring it.

So, do you declare booze in Galveston or any other port when returning to the US?

The Port of Galveston, when I went through there last, we told the U.S. Customs/CBP what we purchased and what we are bringing into the U.S., including the Alcohol.  HOWEVER, there is/was a separate office with many many signs that say that you must stop at the TEXAS Alcohol Control Office (or whatever it is called) and declare and pay the TEXAS tax or duty, I don't remember what they called it.  I've never had to pay a tax or duty on anything I've brought back into the U.S. at the CBP check point.  Only at the TEXAS control point.

[not-enough-cruising]

6 minutes ago, PWP-001 said:

 

When you're done wagging your finger of responsibility, take the practical view by asking a few questions:

 

-Do you think that The Home Office (which is a better term rather than employer, since The Ledger publisher was NOT an employer and it wasn't an employer/employee relationship) wants to have the majority or their workforce miss deadlines or not do what was required?  

 

-Do you think that RCL wants guests to be embarrassed or run afoul of CBP duty requirements to declare?

 

The point is EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION.

 

Yes, the home office DID have to extend deadlines when thousands didn't meet it.  Yes, they had the power to childishly wag their finger and chastise us not being responsible citizens-- they could even sanction and fine us.  But they didn't.

 

 

 

 

Just more excuses; very very sad. 

[Ret MP]

12 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

Yeah, no. The corridor is not a courtesy, they have no probable cause to place you under arrest, and no reason to handcuff you or read you your rights as you are not under arrest. And in the case of the watch you could discard it and not be liable for the duty. No duty is due until completion of Customs and Border Patrol processing. 

You can be detained and you can be handcuffed while being detained.  You are not under arrest while they search your belongings either.  But, there is a legal right/duty for the CBP to do so, without probable cause, at their discretion.  And even if they do have Probable Cause to arrest, search, handcuff, and/or read you your rights, doesn't mean that they will do so at any particular time.  Again, in this event, I don't know what the thinking of the CBP was.  It could have been a random check, it could have been a tip, it could a have been devine intervention, I don't know.  

 

Edited IN:  CPB has many many ways that they do their business that is different from non-CBP Law Enforcement entities.  When I discuss LE perspectives, that's a general rule/and law that ALL Law Enforcement agencies must fallow with very few exceptions.  

 

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Ret MP

[nolimits]

Customs window is first place you get to declare purchases. Not entering US waters 

Apples and Oranges  or Watches and Drugs 

You can’t declare till off the ship 

That’s the problem You bought a watch and everybody that heard that alarm then saw you escorted to office by shipstaff not ship security is looking thinking Drugs or Worse

You should instruct your people not everyone is a criminal but catch and punish the ones that Are 

[RedIguana]

6 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

It could have been a random check, it could have been a tip, it could a have been devine intervention, I don't know.  

Any purchases over a certain amount onboard are reported to customs. The reason that person was directed to Customs is not a mystery.

[Ret MP]

4 minutes ago, nolimits said:

Customs window is first place you get to declare purchases. Not entering US waters 

Apples and Oranges  or Watches and Drugs 

You can’t declare till off the ship 

That’s the problem You bought a watch and everybody that heard that alarm then saw you escorted to office by shipstaff not ship security is looking thinking Drugs or Worse

You should instruct your people not everyone is a criminal but catch and punish the ones that Are 

I already answered that!  In many ways

[PWP-001]

13 minutes ago, reallyitsmema said:

 

You stated the compass is not published, that is not true.  It is available in many forms.  The cruise line can not handhold every passenger and ask everyone which form they need the compass and make sure they read it.  

How sad it is when one can't see the forest through the trees!

 

And to take your comments literally here.  

 

Yes, the cruise line CAN and DOES handhold every passenger... just like airlines do for international travel.  Think embarkation.  Do you know what happens to a line (air or sea) should they not verify docs for a passenger?  I'm pretty sure their are big fines for the line.  And in the case of an airline that delivers an undocumented passenger, the airline becomes responsible for taking the passenger back as they are not admitted.  

 

POINTS:

 

-when it is important to the cruise line, they DO check every single passenger.

-EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION on the part of the cruise line is key.

-with the current forms of communication in place, pax are sometimes left feeling humiliated and treated inappropriately.

-perhaps a flyer left in every occupied stateroom in paper form two nights prior to disembarkation would improve communication and reduce situations described.

 

 

In closing,

 

IF YOU ARE EVEN TEMPTED to reply ... that's not what I mean by handhold every passenger and ask everyone which form they need the compass and make sure they read it.

 

I do know and understand that.  

 

I wrote what I wrote, twisting your handholding comment, in the same style as my The Compass isn't published comment -- which I did later elaborate and spell out for those who didn't get the conceptual meaning of my words.  I just saw an opportunity to make several points at once.  

 

[nolimits]

Ret MP

 This is Royal regular way of handling all large$ purchases on ship. 

 

No one was flagged for anything but there purchase 

I can enjoy your knowledge but at no time did Buyer of a watch do anything wrong 

And didn’t need to be observed all they needed was opportunity to pay which is at customs window once off ship 

 

Not everybody is a criminal 

 

 

[RedIguana]

8 minutes ago, nolimits said:

You can’t declare till off the ship

Although I believe you are under no obligation to fill out a customs form until you reach the checkpoint, I have used the app in the past. Not sure if still a thing since I have not used it for a few years. 

[Ret MP]

1 minute ago, nolimits said:

Ret MP

 This is Royal regular way of handling all large$ purchases on ship. 

 

No one was flagged for anything but there purchase 

I can enjoy your knowledge but at no time did Buyer of a watch do anything wrong 

And didn’t need to be observed all they needed was opportunity to pay which is at customs window once off ship 

 

Not everybody is a criminal 

 

 

I didn't say he was a criminal.  I did say that no one knows who a criminal is until we know who the criminal is.  We can't find out if a person is a criminal or not until we do something inquisitive, within legal bounds, of course.  And I don't believe there was anything done outside of the legal bounds, in this case, as presented.  I don't care if you like the process or not.  Doing nothing is not an option.  Offending innocent bystander's feelings doesn't matter.  It's a dangerous and imperfect world out there.  

[nolimits]

So buying a watch makes you a suspected criminal?

Process sucks  and it’s on Royal not customs and not purchaser 

[reallyitsmema]

14 minutes ago, PWP-001 said:

How sad it is when one can't see the forest through the trees!

 

And to take your comments literally here.  

 

Yes, the cruise line CAN and DOES handhold every passenger... just like airlines do for international travel.  Think embarkation.  Do you know what happens to a line (air or sea) should they not verify docs for a passenger?  I'm pretty sure their are big fines for the line.  And in the case of an airline that delivers an undocumented passenger, the airline becomes responsible for taking the passenger back as they are not admitted.  

 

POINTS:

 

-when it is important to the cruise line, they DO check every single passenger.

-EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION on the part of the cruise line is key.

-with the current forms of communication in place, pax are sometimes left feeling humiliated and treated inappropriately.

-perhaps a flyer left in every occupied stateroom in paper form two nights prior to disembarkation would improve communication and reduce situations described.

 

 

In closing,

 

IF YOU ARE EVEN TEMPTED to reply ... that's not what I mean by handhold every passenger and ask everyone which form they need the compass and make sure they read it.

 

I do know and understand that.  

 

I wrote what I wrote, twisting your handholding comment, in the same style as my The Compass isn't published comment -- which I did later elaborate and spell out for those who didn't get the conceptual meaning of my words.  I just saw an opportunity to make several points at once.  

 

 

People have been complaining for years about all the flyers and notices the cruise line has left in their cabins and the cruise line has listened and reduced the paper.  You can stick with your paper and abacus, I chose to move on with the times.