Arvia maiden cancelled

[Megabear2]

2 hours ago, john watson said:

 

It is possible to get a nil excess policy obviously more expensive though.  In terms of offering compensation P&O should be able to refund money using the fines imposed for late delivery from  the constructor.

 

Regards John

It is indeed possible to do this, but unfortunately it's rather a case of horse and stable door this close to the sailing.  People have their policies in place as they've paid their final balances.  

 

As is well documented elsewhere on the forum, buying a travel insurance policy for a cruise is far from easy and a large number of people buying the policy wouldn't even think that cancellation of their cruise by the line would leave them possibly hundreds of pounds out of pocket.

 

 

[Solent Richard]

13 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

It doesn’t much matter whether the cancellations were of P&O’s making.  They entered into the contracts for the sale of cruises, and they’re responsible for the fulfilment of those contracts, subject of course to the terms and conditions, which are themselves subject to scrutiny under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

 

P&O will certainly be reclaiming everything available to them to claim from those they contracted with, and passengers are entitled to do the same.

 

I think you've negated your own argument with the words I've highlighted in Red.

[Harry Peterson]

Just now, Solent Richard said:

 

I think you've negated your own argument with the words I've highlighted in Red.

Not at all, because you’ve missed out the words which followed concerning the Consumer Rights Act. Terms and conditions these days aren’t the universal panacea that companies sometimes pretend they are.

 

[cruising.mark.uk]

Booking maiden cruises seems to be quite a risky business.  A quick search reveals maidens on all of these have been cancelled / moved in 2022: Virgin Resilient Lady, Disney Wish, Saga Spirit of Adventure, Ambassador Ambience, Norwegian Prima and Seabourn Venture.  

[Solent Richard]

3 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

It is indeed possible to do this, but unfortunately it's rather a case of horse and stable door this close to the sailing.  People have their policies in place as they've paid their final balances.  

 

As is well documented elsewhere on the forum, buying a travel insurance policy for a cruise is far from easy and a large number of people buying the policy wouldn't even think that cancellation of their cruise by the line would leave them possibly hundreds of pounds out of pocket.

 

 

Hi there again.

 

It never ceases to amaze me that folk are prepared to part with thousands of pounds for a week or two weeks cruising and can't be bothered to check out a few other essential details.

 

While not wishing to dissect any individual possible losses I'm not really clear where you get your ''possibly hundreds of pounds out of pocket' from.

 

Maybe, if you have the time, you can elaborate.

[Solent Richard]

1 minute ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Booking maiden cruises seems to be quite a risky business.  A quick search reveals maidens on all of these have been cancelled / moved in 2022: Virgin Resilient Lady, Disney Wish, Saga Spirit of Adventure, Ambassador Ambience, Norwegian Prima and Seabourn Venture.  

 

Though as I stated earlier,  Britannia was perfect...

https://solentrichardscruiseblog.com/2015/03/30/britannia-the-maiden-cruise/

 

 

[Solent Richard]

5 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Not at all, because you’ve missed out the words which followed concerning the Consumer Rights Act. Terms and conditions these days aren’t the universal panacea that companies sometimes pretend they are.

 

Perhaps you'' be good enough to show the relevant section in the 'Consumers Rights Act' that will apply to the particular case you are calling.

 

Forgive me if any further response is delayed but I'm off to my allotment. 😁

[john watson]

1 minute ago, Solent Richard said:

 

 

Forgive me if any further response is delayed but I'm off to my allotment. 😁

 

The plot thickens.

 

Regards John

[john watson]

10 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Booking maiden cruises seems to be quite a risky business.  A quick search reveals maidens on all of these have been cancelled. 

 

Wasn't there a tricky White Star Line one a few years back?

 

Regards John

[arlowood]

11 hours ago, gsgbrumuk said:

Well the figure for FCC she gave me was based on the newly discounted price.  There again offereing refunds to fully paid cruisers is also not usual P&O policy.

Have to say I'm thinking a bit of sharp practice.

Our experience was a bit different back in April when P&O cancelled our Arcadia cruise to the Baltic at short notice. They were re-deploying staff from Arcadia to the larger ships due to staffing issues at that time..

 

Not only did they give us a full cash refund based on the price we actually paid but they also offered a 15% FCC and extra OBC of £100pp.

 

Perhaps the recent downturn in the global financial situation has driven them to more stringent (and stingey) refund policies.

 

I have to say that we used that FCC pretty quickly by booking a Spain and Portugal cruise in August. I wasn't and still am not confident that Arcadia and Aurora will survive in the fleet for too much longer.

[Megabear2]

2 hours ago, MX-Drew said:

Which is exactly what P&O are not doing, they are not paying for out of pocket expenses or insurance excess. Yes they are giving 10% of the new discounted price (is that why they discounted the price I wonder?) but who gains from this at the end of the day? Oh yes P&O get another booking and more money.

Seems to me the customer is in a lose lose position and the company is in a win win position.

 

For the record I run a small retail business and if I handled things this way I would lose my repeat customers over night.

Can we just take breath and clarify what exactly is happening regarding this so called reduced price?

 

Scenario 1: I book a balcony cabin on release date priced at £6,000 for two, ie £3,000 each. I pay my balance 12 weeks before sail date.  P&O then reduce the price to £2,500 each and notify me I am receiving £1,000 refund which they will repay to me via my payment card or travel agent.  Unfortunately they cancel and say I will get a refund, ie £5,000 plus a FCC of £500.

 

Scenario 2: I book a balcony cabin on release date priced at £6,000 for two, ie £3,000 each. I pay my balance 12 weeks before sail date.  P&O then reduce the price to £2,500 each and notify me I am receiving £1,000 in OBC. Unfortunately they cancel and say I will get a refund, ie £5,000 plus a FCC of £500 but no OBC.

 

Scenario 3:  I book a balcony cabin on release date priced at £6,000 for two, ie £3,000 each. I pay my balance 12 weeks before sail date.  P&O then reduce the price to £2,500 each andnotify me I am receiving £1,000 refund which they will repay to me via my payment card or travel agent.   P&O then substantially reduce the price of my cruise as it isn't selling well.  The equivalent balcony cabin is now priced at £1,500pp and a new booking would pay £3,000 for two. Unfortunately they cancel and say I will get a refund, ie £5,000 plus a FCC of 10% based on the sale price on the date of cancellation,  ie £300.

 

Obviously all of this scenarios have different outcomes for the passenger.  Perhaps someone who has been cancelled could identify which of these three scenarios is the one nearest to fact?

 

If on the other hand people were expecting 10% of the original sale price (in scenario 1 £6,000) could they explain why they thought this to be the case as assumedly a refund of £1,000 would have occurred - I am aware some are still awaiting this cash but this hopefully will arrive shortly.

 

Before we get too aerated with P&O on this issue surely the full picture on the money side at least needs to be explained?

[Yorkypete]

34 minutes ago, Solent Richard said:

Hi there again.

 

It never ceases to amaze me that folk are prepared to part with thousands of pounds for a week or two weeks cruising and can't be bothered to check out a few other essential details.

 

While not wishing to dissect any individual possible losses I'm not really clear where you get your ''possibly hundreds of pounds out of pocket' from.

 

Maybe, if you have the time, you can elaborate.

It does not take much elaboration. Hotel for the night before...travel down to Southampton...taking out an insurance specially for this one cruise. We may well have hundreds of pounds there and there is a possibility that some people took there annual leave which cannot be changed.

[Megabear2]

52 minutes ago, Solent Richard said:

Hi there again.

 

It never ceases to amaze me that folk are prepared to part with thousands of pounds for a week or two weeks cruising and can't be bothered to check out a few other essential details.

 

While not wishing to dissect any individual possible losses I'm not really clear where you get your ''possibly hundreds of pounds out of pocket' from.

 

Maybe, if you have the time, you can elaborate.

Certainly: non refundable overnight accommodation - not covered on many policies as a minimum 2 night stay required for UK hotel bookings,  policy excess of minimum £75.00pp on most policies, non refundable train tickets  - currently rail companies are not selling in most instances cheap advance tickets so these are full fares, the actual policy cost if you bought a single trip policy - not everyone buys an annual policy. A couple are already down a couple of hundred, a family more.

 

Also loss of annual leave which is a big factor.  Spending 12 days at home twiddling your thumbs in the winter isn't most people's idea of a good idea and with rising costs the new cruise fares may be beyond their reach - see Host Sharon's £986 more on her offered alternative cruise.

 

I would politely point out Solent Richard that your take on UK insurance policies has already been proven incorrect when you confidently stated that Avanti would cover you and your family in the event you were offloaded shore without a positive PCR test, and also that you would not need to be separated or pay costs yourself if a non positive person chose to stay abroad with their quarantined partner.  You were also confident your insurer would meet costs if you were refused boarding, both of which are incorrect and now acknowledged by P&O and their insurer.

 

I hope you enjoy the allotment.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Megabear2

[Harry Peterson]

47 minutes ago, Solent Richard said:

Perhaps you'' be good enough to show the relevant section in the 'Consumers Rights Act' that will apply to the particular case you are calling.

 

Forgive me if any further response is delayed but I'm off to my allotment. 😁

 

There you go:

 

https://www.blakemorgan.co.uk/the-consumer-rights-act-2015-all-change-for-consumer-contracts-for-goods-digital-content-services-and-unfair-terms/

 

and

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/unfair-contract-terms-cma37

 

Something to read when you get back from your vegetables. The point here is that when expenses arise which aren’t covered by a simple refund of the contract price, the terms in a consumer contract won’t necessarily protect the company against claims for those additional costs.

 

S61 et seq by the way.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Harry Peterson
S61

[Megabear2]

51 minutes ago, Solent Richard said:

Norwegian Prima

I was booked on this and also Norwegian Viva - the latter the replacement for the first. NCL refunded all money paid - just a deposit - plus 10% discount on any cruise which remains for 2 years and if I book an extra $100 OBC by way of thanks.  

[MX-Drew]

21 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Can we just take breath and clarify what exactly is happening regarding this so called reduced price?

 

Scenario 1: I book a balcony cabin on release date priced at £6,000 for two, ie £3,000 each. I pay my balance 12 weeks before sail date.  P&O then reduce the price to £2,500 each and notify me I am receiving £1,000 refund which they will repay to me via my payment card or travel agent.  Unfortunately they cancel and say I will get a refund, ie £5,000 plus a FCC of £500.

 

Scenario 2: I book a balcony cabin on release date priced at £6,000 for two, ie £3,000 each. I pay my balance 12 weeks before sail date.  P&O then reduce the price to £2,500 each and notify me I am receiving £1,000 in OBC. Unfortunately they cancel and say I will get a refund, ie £5,000 plus a FCC of £500 but no OBC.

 

Scenario 3:  I book a balcony cabin on release date priced at £6,000 for two, ie £3,000 each. I pay my balance 12 weeks before sail date.  P&O then reduce the price to £2,500 each andnotify me I am receiving £1,000 refund which they will repay to me via my payment card or travel agent.   P&O then substantially reduce the price of my cruise as it isn't selling well.  The equivalent balcony cabin is now priced at £1,500pp and a new booking would pay £3,000 for two. Unfortunately they cancel and say I will get a refund, ie £5,000 plus a FCC of 10% based on the sale price on the date of cancellation,  ie £300.

 

Obviously all of this scenarios have different outcomes for the passenger.  Perhaps someone who has been cancelled could identify which of these three scenarios is the one nearest to fact?

 

If on the other hand people were expecting 10% of the original sale price (in scenario 1 £6,000) could they explain why they thought this to be the case as assumedly a refund of £1,000 would have occurred - I am aware some are still awaiting this cash but this hopefully will arrive shortly.

 

Before we get too aerated with P&O on this issue surely the full picture on the money side at least needs to be explained?

Where do you get this £1000 refund or £1000 OBC from?

Whilst I'm not on the cancelled cruise I am on the Christmas cruise that has also dropped in price (well did while it was still on sale), and I have received no refund and a pittance extra in OBC that will be spent on drink on the first day. 

[john watson]

14 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Certainly: non refundable overnight accommodation - not covered on many policies as a minimum 2 night stay required for UK hotel bookings.

 

 

 

When booking, some tariffs at hotels whilst slightly more expensive allow cancellation by 4pm the previous day for a full refund.  Again when booking without Annual Insurance in place having cancellable at no cost bookings is prudent.

 

Regards John

Edited October 27, 2022 by john watson

[Megabear2]

11 minutes ago, MX-Drew said:

Where do you get this £1000 refund or £1000 OBC from?

Whilst I'm not on the cancelled cruise I am on the Christmas cruise that has also dropped in price (well did while it was still on sale), and I have received no refund and a pittance extra in OBC that will be spent on drink on the first day. 

I don't get anything from anywhere!  I understood from another thread people were being given large refunds on the maiden?  I want to ascertain if everyone got one of those  certainly there are some on this thread saying they're awaiting money.  These are totally hypothetical scenarios with no relevance to anyone in particular- I just used round figures for ease.  I wanted to understand what actual amounts P&O are offering the 10% FCC on, ie original sale price, refunded/amended price or current on sale price at the date of cancellation.

 

I sympathise with you on pricing - my £8,000 Christmas cruise with £620 OBC is currently £6,000 with £650 OBC for the cabin next door!

Edited October 27, 2022 by Megabear2

[paulatsea]

5 minutes ago, MX-Drew said:

Where do you get this £1000 refund or £1000 OBC from?

Whilst I'm not on the cancelled cruise I am on the Christmas cruise that has also dropped in price (well did while it was still on sale), and I have received no refund and a pittance extra in OBC that will be spent on drink on the first day. 

I have never been offered any refund from p&o if the price drops ? 

[Son of Anarchy]

9 hours ago, clevercruiser said:

 

This one, presumably...?

 

 

 

At least two bridges to move.  The girder one looks a bit rickety.

 

Someone should have built a bit of wriggle room into what happens in the event that a bridge cannot be operated to allow shipping through.

 

IMO this one rest with P&O...

[Windsurfboy]

27 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Can we just take breath and clarify what exactly is happening regarding this so called reduced price?

 

Scenario 1: I book a balcony cabin on release date priced at £6,000 for two, ie £3,000 each. I pay my balance 12 weeks before sail date.  P&O then reduce the price to £2,500 each and notify me I am receiving £1,000 refund which they will repay to me via my payment card or travel agent.  Unfortunately they cancel and say I will get a refund, ie £5,000 plus a FCC of £500.

 

Scenario 2: I book a balcony cabin on release date priced at £6,000 for two, ie £3,000 each. I pay my balance 12 weeks before sail date.  P&O then reduce the price to £2,500 each and notify me I am receiving £1,000 in OBC. Unfortunately they cancel and say I will get a refund, ie £5,000 plus a FCC of £500 but no OBC.

 

Scenario 3:  I book a balcony cabin on release date priced at £6,000 for two, ie £3,000 each. I pay my balance 12 weeks before sail date.  P&O then reduce the price to £2,500 each andnotify me I am receiving £1,000 refund which they will repay to me via my payment card or travel agent.   P&O then substantially reduce the price of my cruise as it isn't selling well.  The equivalent balcony cabin is now priced at £1,500pp and a new booking would pay £3,000 for two. Unfortunately they cancel and say I will get a refund, ie £5,000 plus a FCC of 10% based on the sale price on the date of cancellation,  ie £300.

 

Obviously all of this scenarios have different outcomes for the passenger.  Perhaps someone who has been cancelled could identify which of these three scenarios is the one nearest to fact?

 

If on the other hand people were expecting 10% of the original sale price (in scenario 1 £6,000) could they explain why they thought this to be the case as assumedly a refund of £1,000 would have occurred - I am aware some are still awaiting this cash but this hopefully will arrive shortly.

 

Before we get too aerated with P&O on this issue surely the full picture on the money side at least needs to be explained?

 

Whatever happens,  P&O must give you all the money you paid them back, every penny.  That is the law,   no question. 

 

Whether it £1000 plus £5000 later, or £6000 in one go.

 

The outstanding question is about other out of pocket expenses

[Host Sharon]

1 hour ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Booking maiden cruises seems to be quite a risky business.  A quick search reveals maidens on all of these have been cancelled / moved in 2022: Virgin Resilient Lady, Disney Wish, Saga Spirit of Adventure, Ambassador Ambience, Norwegian Prima and Seabourn Venture.  

This is true as I was on that one. However, Saga automatically booked us on the new maiden dates first and then phoned everyone to check that was OK or give a refund. We also got a FCC in addition and an enhanced drinks package.

[Host Sharon]

22 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I don't get anything from anywhere!  I understood from another thread people were being given large refunds on the maiden?  I want to ascertain if everyone got one of those  certainly there are some on this thread saying they're awaiting money.  These are totally hypothetical scenarios with no relevance to anyone in particular- I just used round figures for ease.  I wanted to understand what actual amounts P&O are offering the 10% FCC on, ie original sale price, refunded/amended price or current on sale price at the date of cancellation.

 

I sympathise with you on pricing - my £8,000 Christmas cruise with £620 OBC is currently £6,000 with £650 OBC for the cabin next door!

Actually none of your scenarios are quite accurate. Booked a cabin for about £2000 pp with OBC (which was enhanced by £150 later). Prices reduced last week by nearly half. Got refund of around £600, part in cash and part in FCC. Cruise cancelled. Got revised new cost of cruise plus10% back all in FCC - no cash refund. Offered identical cruise but over Christmas for more than the original cost of the maiden.  My case though is further complicated because we paid in part for this cruise with FCC from the cancelled Iona maiden!

[MX-Drew]

23 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I don't get anything from anywhere!  I understood from another thread people were being given large refunds on the maiden?  I want to ascertain if everyone got one of those  certainly there are some on this thread saying they're awaiting money.  These are totally hypothetical scenarios with no relevance to anyone in particular- I just used round figures for ease.  I wanted to understand what actual amounts P&O are offering the 10% FCC on, ie original sale price, refunded/amended price or current on sale price at the date of cancellation.

 

I sympathise with you on pricing - my £8,000 Christmas cruise with £620 OBC is currently £6,000 with £650 OBC for the cabin next door!

Sorry I wasn't "having a go" at you I just wanted to understand the figures like yourself.

It is very strange P&O offered refunds on the maiden when the price dropped but not any other cruise.

[MX-Drew]

24 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

At least two bridges to move.  The girder one looks a bit rickety.

 

Someone should have built a bit of wriggle room into what happens in the event that a bridge cannot be operated to allow shipping through.

 

IMO this one rest with P&O...

Likewise, it would be down to P&O to schedule the cruises and whilst I understand you don't want a large asset sitting idle on the the other hand having to cancel a cruise is not good either.