Haven Sundeck and Children

[Treasure Hunter]

I should probably not respond anymore since this discussion is becoming a little nasty, “ you should be so proud ruining a family’s vacation. “ I’d hate to see someone argue other age restricted venues like the gym because they want their child with them while they work out. The kid can hand them their weights. After all they are paying to use the whole ship. 

[cruiseny4life]

15 hours ago, IronRobi said:

 

This is the perfect example of the point I was making.

 

If you have a 14yr old kid who is sitting with their parents reading a book with headphones in not making a single sound..... who are they bothering? Nobody! Except for this person who will place a complaint about it and lessen somebody else's family vacation simply out of principle. This kid is doing nothing to affect your vacation, but you are certainly making a mark on theirs. Well done, you should be proud!

 

To be clear, I'm talking about well behaved older children here. Primarily teens. I'm not talking somebody's toddler or a kid blasting their music on their phone and causing a disturbance.

This seems like it could, hypothetically, be a perfect example of a parent feeling entitled. 

 

A family's vacation wouldn't be ruined if they followed the rules, hypothetically. 

 

I've been on a Haven sun deck where almost all the chairs were being used. Hypothetically, wouldn't this 14 year old be using a chair/day bed that could be used by someone else, but unable to due to the hypothetical 14 year old's parents insisting on teaching the teenager to disobey the rules? 

 

Just a hypothetical for you to consider. 

[Laszlo]

On 10/25/2022 at 11:03 AM, July1963 said:

We booked Norwegian first time for July next year on the Joy. We have since found out that children are not allowed on the Sundeck. This would exclude us as a family from this whole area, our Son will be 14 when sailing, only child and behaves much as an adult. I did have an online Chat with Norwegian and they said to talk with Guest Services when onboard. 

Has anyone seen children in this area? This may well be a deal breaker for us to the extent we cancel.

Your son will be 14 when you sail. The rule is 16, I don't see what the problem is, 16 is the rule. I'm in the Haven and my friends aren't, I can't bring them into the Haven. The rules are in place for a reason. If you don't like the rules that's on you

[Laszlo]

1 minute ago, Laszlo said:

 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Laszlo

[Phil265]

On 10/25/2022 at 5:03 PM, July1963 said:

We booked Norwegian first time for July next year on the Joy. We have since found out that children are not allowed on the Sundeck. This would exclude us as a family from this whole area, our Son will be 14 when sailing, only child and behaves much as an adult. I did have an online Chat with Norwegian and they said to talk with Guest Services when onboard. 

Has anyone seen children in this area? This may well be a deal breaker for us to the extent we cancel.

Don’t you think it is a little overdramatic to cancel the whole cruise because of that tiny adults only area? I mean how much time are you planning on spending up there with your son? Back when I was 14 the least thing I wanted to do on a cruise was sit in a boring place like the Haven sundeck with my parents and sunbathe or read a book. That was at a time when ships did not even have anything like waterslides, laser tag, gocarts, teen areas and so on…there is not even a pool up there. I mean did you ask your son if spending time up there is so important to him that all the 99% of the other cool stuff and Haven amenities on a ship like the Joy or Encore don’t matter to him anymore or is it just you being unhappy about a rule that is there for a reason? 

[goldmom]

The 14 yo can sit in the second level Haven area with loungers.  If Mom wants to pop out and get some sun on the Sundeck, she can do so.  They could pretty much see each other the whole time.

While her son may be a quiet kid, there are some kids who aren't and once the staff lets one underage child up there it would be impossible to stop other parents from bringing their children (who may not be well behaved) up there.

There are plenty of places for Mom and son to sit together, just not on the sundeck.

[Beamco]

On 10/27/2022 at 4:53 PM, IronRobi said:

 

This is the perfect example of the point I was making.

 

If you have a 14yr old kid who is sitting with their parents reading a book with headphones in not making a single sound..... who are they bothering? Nobody! Except for this person who will place a complaint about it and lessen somebody else's family vacation simply out of principle. This kid is doing nothing to affect your vacation, but you are certainly making a mark on theirs. Well done, you should be proud!

 

To be clear, I'm talking about well behaved older children here. Primarily teens. I'm not talking somebody's toddler or a kid blasting their music on their phone and causing a disturbance.

So I just saw this since IronRobi is so offended by me being willing to as I stated leave the Haven Lounge - Pool Area - Indoor Hot Tubs - Observation Lounge - even the Haven Bar, etc.  if kids are around and I want or need some adult time away from even well behaved kids by simply retreating to the "minuscule" by comparison to the Haven Public areas that has been designated 16+ that they had to insult me. I am headed on a cruise in January for 15 days all designed to be at a time when there is less chance to have kids on the cruise. FYI I love kids but when I vacation I also like my adult time. However, if  I see someone bringing their under 16 child out there I will "proudly" be that guy and immediately go to the concierge and report them by stating IronRobi from Cruise Critic sent me to ruin some kids vacation because their entitled parents feel they are entitled to every inch of the ship/Haven because their progeny is so special everyone must of course see it and agree. IronRobi and those they are defending after all are the first people to ever push a kid out in the woods so clearly you see just how special their offspring are how dare you expect some space to be away from my wonders..... I loath being a keyboard warrior but the entitlement dripping from your responses would not allow me to back away from a response. 

[IronRobi]

12 minutes ago, Beamco said:

if kids are around and I want or need some adult time away from even well behaved kids by simply retreating to the "minuscule" by comparison to the Haven Public areas that has been designated 16+ that they had to insult me. 

If you can give me a reasonable explanation as to how a 14 year old child, sitting on the opposite end of the deck, sitting with their mom and dad and not making a single sound will affect your ability to relax in any way then I will happily retract my statement.

 

All of these hypothetical situations of "what if" other parents bring their screaming toddlers is not the same situation we're discussing here. And everybody knows that no rule is fully black/white, if it were we'd all be sitting in jail. You likely wouldn't be able to tell if this kid is 14 or 16 just by looking at them and without approaching them and asking their age (not our place to do). And if you happen to not look that way, you'd probably never even realize they are there if they are truly behaving as the parents stated.

 

So the big question is.... WHY does it bother you so much if it has absolutely NO effect on your ability to relax?

 

And for the record, I'm a father that leaves his kids at home because I also want time away from kids to relax. So I completely understand the want/need to get away from the screaming kids. But this is not the specific situation we are discussing here. This family wants to bring their slightly underage teenage child onto the sun deck with them, and stating the child is very well mannered and behaved. 2 different stories here.

[scooter6139]

1 hour ago, IronRobi said:

If you can give me a reasonable explanation as to how a 14 year old child, sitting on the opposite end of the deck, sitting with their mom and dad and not making a single sound will affect your ability to relax in any way then I will happily retract my statement.

 

All of these hypothetical situations of "what if" other parents bring their screaming toddlers is not the same situation we're discussing here. And everybody knows that no rule is fully black/white, if it were we'd all be sitting in jail. You likely wouldn't be able to tell if this kid is 14 or 16 just by looking at them and without approaching them and asking their age (not our place to do). And if you happen to not look that way, you'd probably never even realize they are there if they are truly behaving as the parents stated.

 

So the big question is.... WHY does it bother you so much if it has absolutely NO effect on your ability to relax?

 

And for the record, I'm a father that leaves his kids at home because I also want time away from kids to relax. So I completely understand the want/need to get away from the screaming kids. But this is not the specific situation we are discussing here. This family wants to bring their slightly underage teenage child onto the sun deck with them, and stating the child is very well mannered and behaved. 2 different stories here.

 

Simple.  Is there a rule?  Yes.  Follow the rule.  Everything else is meaningless babble.

[PATRLR]

1 hour ago, IronRobi said:

If you can give me a reasonable explanation as to how a 14 year old child, sitting on the opposite end of the deck, sitting with their mom and dad and not making a single sound will affect your ability to relax in any way then I will happily retract my statement.

 

All of these hypothetical situations of "what if" other parents bring their screaming toddlers is not the same situation we're discussing here. And everybody knows that no rule is fully black/white, if it were we'd all be sitting in jail. You likely wouldn't be able to tell if this kid is 14 or 16 just by looking at them and without approaching them and asking their age (not our place to do). And if you happen to not look that way, you'd probably never even realize they are there if they are truly behaving as the parents stated.

 

So the big question is.... WHY does it bother you so much if it has absolutely NO effect on your ability to relax?

 

And for the record, I'm a father that leaves his kids at home because I also want time away from kids to relax. So I completely understand the want/need to get away from the screaming kids. But this is not the specific situation we are discussing here. This family wants to bring their slightly underage teenage child onto the sun deck with them, and stating the child is very well mannered and behaved. 2 different stories here.

Can you explain what the child's behavior has to do with this situation?  To the best of my knowledge the rule states an age minimum and nothing else.  It doesn't say "younger, well behaved kids are allowed".  Either follow the rules or at the very least acknowledge that you believe you are entitled to break them.

[Grimix]

Just got off the Bliss with 3 kids (Mexican Riviera so was sunny.) I'm sorry to say I never even made it up to the sun deck (I guess I would have liked to seen it now!) but everyone had a great trip. Definitely not a show-stopper for us! (Although I don't like sitting in the sun anyways...) The hot-tub in main haven pool area never had more than 5 people in it so wouldn't feel the need to find one of the ones on the sun-deck. Perhaps on cruises where school is out it's more of a mad-house.

[IronRobi]

4 hours ago, scooter6139 said:

 

Simple.  Is there a rule?  Yes.  Follow the rule.  Everything else is meaningless babble.

 

4 hours ago, PATRLR said:

Either follow the rules or at the very least acknowledge that you believe you are entitled to break them.

Is there a speed limit when driving on the roads? Yes. Can a single person in this thread say they've never even traveled 1km/h or 1mph over that speed limit? I doubt it. 

 

When dealing with laws/rules there's typically 2 approaches. The letter of the law and the spirit of the law. The letter of the law states that if the speed limit is 60mph and you are traveling 60.1mph, you are breaking the law and deserve to be ticketed for doing so. I would argue that travelling 60.1mph is following the spirit of the law even though you are not following the letter of the law and I would bet every police officer would agree and not pull somebody over for 0.1mph (assuming good/safe weather conditions). But as some have pointed out here, the law is the law right? Let's start calling in and reporting all of these drivers so they can really pump out those tickets!!

 

I see this as no different. Yes, the letter of the rule states no children under 16. But I believe the spirit of the rule is to create a peaceful and relaxing area. It is clear that NCL does not rigorously enforce the rule unless given a reason to do so, just as officers will not ticket someone doing 60.1mph. Someone who is close to the age and respecting the spirit of the rules is doing absolutely no harm to anybody. There is no need for the rule police to jump in and try to enforce everything to the letter. It's a vacation, relax a little and enjoy yourself and stop worrying about what other people are doing. Once you stop worrying about what others are doing, you will be infinitely happier in life. I promise you.

[Two Wheels Only]

35 minutes ago, IronRobi said:

It's a vacation, relax a little and enjoy yourself and stop worrying about what other people are doing. Once you stop worrying about what others are doing, you will be infinitely happier in life. I promise you.

 

35 minutes ago, IronRobi said:

There is no need for the rule police to jump in and try to enforce everything to the letter.

 

 

Based on that, you shouldn't be worrying about what the "rule police" are doing. 😉

 

If you are in the Haven and you witness another Haven guest telling the concierge "Adrien, there's a 14 year-old on the sundeck...", you shouldn't worry whether Adrien says "I'll allow it.." or "I'll have the child removed from the area immediately..." since you're on vacation and not worrying about what others are doing. 

 

You're not going to worry about the 14 year-old on the sundeck.

You're not going to worry about the "rule police" who reports the 14 year-old.

You're not going to worry about what the concierge decides. 

 

[KateQ22003]

10 hours ago, IronRobi said:

 

I see this as no different. Yes, the letter of the rule states no children under 16. But I believe the spirit of the rule is to create a peaceful and relaxing area. It is clear that NCL does not rigorously enforce the rule unless given a reason to do so, just as officers will not ticket someone doing 60.1mph. Someone who is close to the age and respecting the spirit of the rules is doing absolutely no harm to anybody. There is no need for the rule police to jump in and try to enforce everything to the letter. It's a vacation, relax a little and enjoy yourself and stop worrying about what other people are doing. Once you stop worrying about what others are doing, you will be infinitely happier in life. I promise you.

No, the spirit of the rule is to create a space for 16+ to relax without children around. NCL will absolutely rigorously enforce the rule if someone reports the infraction. It has nothing to do with who's driving 60+ miles an hour; it's about giving adults one little space to themselves.

[IronRobi]

11 hours ago, KateQ22003 said:

No, the spirit of the rule is to create a space for 16+ to relax without children around. NCL will absolutely rigorously enforce the rule if someone reports the infraction. It has nothing to do with who's driving 60+ miles an hour; it's about giving adults one little space to themselves.

No. Creating a space for 16+ to relax would be the purpose of the rule. To get to the spirit you have to look at why no children around? And that's simple, it's because most kids run around and yell and scream and have no real concept of sitting and relaxing. So by removing children from the space, you end up with a more peaceful and relaxing area (mostly only because some adults act worse than these children after a few beverages LOL), which is why I believe that is the spirit of the rule.

 

You are absolutely right though when you say they absolutely rigorously enforce the rule if someone reports the infraction. However if the kid is close in age, and not bothering anybody else, they will let it slide if unreported. If "the rules are the rules" why do you think they'd let it slide? 

 

NOBODY will convince me that a 14yr old doing absolutely nothing but sitting quietly in a 16+ area will detract from anybody's vacation in any way simply because they're existing in the space. 

[bookbabe]

15 hours ago, IronRobi said:

 

NOBODY will convince me that a 14yr old doing absolutely nothing but sitting quietly in a 16+ area will detract from anybody's vacation in any way simply because they're existing in the space. 

LOL.  You obviously aren’t a high school teacher.  The quiet ones are generally the ones to watch, they’re planning something…

 

In all seriousness, though, those of us who are teachers are ALWAYS aware of the presence of kids or teens in an area, even if they are just sitting quietly.  It’s an occupational hazard, your mindset and behaviour changes when there are “students” around, even if they aren’t technically your responsibility.  You get used to it.

[WhatshouldIsay]

So, if I were to be on the sundeck, I wouldn't care, I most likely wouldn't notice.  Having had a very quiet teen daughter who would have preferred the 16+, I still would not allow it.  If you look at the overall ship, and the rules on the ship, how many are broken daily?  If the 16+ rule is broken in that area of the ship, does it mean that rules beyond that area like Spice H20 can also be broken?  Are children then allowed to gamble as well.  Perhaps have a few cocktails and maybe save 10 loungers by the pool.  This is an extreme example - but my point is, if one is broken then are we to say they can all be broken?  Whether it is a soft or a hard rule?

[IronRobi]

8 hours ago, bookbabe said:

In all seriousness, though, those of us who are teachers are ALWAYS aware of the presence of kids or teens in an area, even if they are just sitting quietly.  

Honestly, this is the first and only reasonable argument I've seen for this and an angle I have never considered. 

8 hours ago, WhatshouldIsay said:

If the 16+ rule is broken in that area of the ship, does it mean that rules beyond that area like Spice H20 can also be broken?  Are children then allowed to gamble as well.  Perhaps have a few cocktails and maybe save 10 loungers by the pool.  This is an extreme example - but my point is, if one is broken then are we to say they can all be broken?  Whether it is a soft or a hard rule?

I would say pretty much all of these are rules that are likely broken on a regular basis except maybe the gambling one since it is regulated by federal law in the country the ship is registered under and in a high security area. But I would bet money that at least 1 parent on the ship slips their teenage kid at least 1 drink while they're on board, or someone sneaks into spiceh20, and don't even get me started on chair hogs! LOL Don't forget about the ones that cut in line or the ones that don't wash their hands before entering the buffet. OH or the ones that use their own bottles in the water dispenser instead of using the provided cups and filling their bottle on the side. Point is, tons of rules are broken on a daily basis and for the most part they have little to no effect on our enjoyment of our vacation. So where does one draw the line on reporting everyone?

[pcakes122]

On 10/27/2022 at 10:12 AM, dandelpino said:

 

There's nothing wrong with wanting that but I think NCL may not for you if you want extensive adult only areas. NCL has been a family cruise line years now. The water slides, galaxy pavilion, laser tag, and go carts aren't there to attract retirees. The largest and most expensive amenities are aimed at families with kids. There are plenty of cruise lines out there catering to every type of vacation style but NCL isn't going to exclude kids from entire decks when they spend so much money to get them onboard.

But NCL says the Haven Sundeck will be kid-free and some people may actually upgrade just for that reason. If they aren't going to enforce that rule, they should just eliminate it.

 

Also, "entire decks"? Have you been to the Haven Sundeck? We're talking about a relatively small section on the ship. For reference, see the Escape Haven Sundeck below. I don't think it's too much to ask (especially if you are paying a premium for it.)

[pcakes122]

On 11/4/2022 at 8:56 PM, IronRobi said:

NOBODY will convince me that a 14yr old doing absolutely nothing but sitting quietly in a 16+ area will detract from anybody's vacation in any way simply because they're existing in the space. 

You are missing the point that if ONE person is allowed to bring their under 16 year old, then everyone else will feel entitled to do the same. And not every child is well behaved. And every child -- no matter how well behaved -- takes up a lounger or a spot in the hot tub.  NCL made a rule. Why can people just play fair and follow the rules?

[PATRLR]

On 11/4/2022 at 8:56 PM, IronRobi said:

No. Creating a space for 16+ to relax would be the purpose of the rule. To get to the spirit you have to look at why no children around? And that's simple, it's because most kids run around and yell and scream and have no real concept of sitting and relaxing. So by removing children from the space, you end up with a more peaceful and relaxing area (mostly only because some adults act worse than these children after a few beverages LOL), which is why I believe that is the spirit of the rule

 

That is your opinion of the "spirit".  I'd argue if that was indeed the spirit, then the rules would also include something about it being a quiet area.  To the best of my knowledge it doesn't.  

 

I'd argue the spirit is to create a kid free space.  "Why" doesn't matter.  The impact of kid free to me is different than someone else.  Doesn't matter what that impact is.

 

On 11/4/2022 at 8:56 PM, IronRobi said:

NOBODY will convince me that a 14yr old doing absolutely nothing but sitting quietly in a 16+ area will detract from anybody's vacation in any way simply because they're existing in the space. 

 

Maybe I just don't like kids for no specific reason.  Who are you to decide whether their presence is good reason to keep them out of that area or not.  

[IronRobi]

2 hours ago, PATRLR said:

Maybe I just don't like kids for no specific reason.  Who are you to decide whether their presence is good reason to keep them out of that area or not.  

Sounds very discriminatory of you. Since you clearly discriminate against age, do you also discriminate against gender and race?

 

Discrimination - Noun: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

 

I don't think this is who you truly are as a person, however when you make statements such as "I just don't like kids for no specific reason", this is how you come across. 

[cruiseny4life]

1 hour ago, IronRobi said:

Sounds very discriminatory of you. Since you clearly discriminate against age, do you also discriminate against gender and race?

 

Discrimination - Noun: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

 

I don't think this is who you truly are as a person, however when you make statements such as "I just don't like kids for no specific reason", this is how you come across. 

Whoa! So you're the one breaking the rules, or at the very least, advocating for breaking rules, then you claim discrimination? You definitely need to take a step back and think through your posting.

 

Did the poster ever claim they discriminated? No. They just hypothetically don't like kids. That's what "maybe" means.

 

Now, in a pretend world, let's say you break the rules and let your 14 year old entitled child on the sundeck, then a drunken adult stumbles in swearing and talking about his/her latest conquest (last night). Do you want your kid to hear that? I'd say no and I bet you'd complain even though you're clearly wrong for letting your kid in an 16+ area. 

 

You need to rethink your engagement on this post.

[pcakes122]

1 hour ago, IronRobi said:

Sounds very discriminatory of you. Since you clearly discriminate against age, do you also discriminate against gender and race?

 

Discrimination - Noun: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

 

I don't think this is who you truly are as a person, however when you make statements such as "I just don't like kids for no specific reason", this is how you come across. 

Seriously? This is an example of why the world is struggling. We are discussing compliance with guidelines that NCL set up (which btw people are aware of BEFORE they book) and somehow we've now determined that those who think people should follow rules are being discriminatory (or worse?)

 

People who book expecting a "child-free" space should be able to have that. It doesn't mean they hate children. There could be a million reasons why that's their preference. Not anyone's business.

 

People who have an issue with the rules should either not book or take it up with NCL to lobby a change. Ignoring the rule or expecting it to be "bent" for them shouldn't be an option.

[mjkacmom]

22 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

Whoa! So you're the one breaking the rules, or at the very least, advocating for breaking rules, then you claim discrimination? You definitely need to take a step back and think through your posting.

 

Did the poster ever claim they discriminated? No. They just hypothetically don't like kids. That's what "maybe" means.

 

Now, in a pretend world, let's say you break the rules and let your 14 year old entitled child on the sundeck, then a drunken adult stumbles in swearing and talking about his/her latest conquest (last night). Do you want your kid to hear that? I'd say no and I bet you'd complain even though you're clearly wrong for letting your kid in an 16+ area. 

 

You need to rethink your engagement on this post.

I don’t think it’s a big deal either way, but I can’t imagine what a drunk adult could say that would make a 14 year old boy clutch his pearls. I’ve had 2 14 year old sons (and 3 14 year old daughters). Xbox live alone!