Daily Service Charges are now officially out of hand

[ballarinamom]

20 minutes ago, The_Big_M said:

 

Not the same, and not true.

 

When port charges increase, firstly it's only to a specific port, not all ports, so doesn't affect all cruises, nor all cruisers. And secondly the increase is typically $5-10, which is much less than here, which would typically be $10-$30 - or in this case $35-$70 for a 1-2 week cruise. And I haven't seen any tax increases, so no comparison there.

 

Also not true as the closest comparable example was when there were fuel charges added, which is similar in that the cost impact was higher and also it affected all cruises, not limited. And that produced many threads and discussion/dissatisfaction. So when the impact is broader and greater like these gratuity increases, there will be threads.

Ive been on this board for a long time. The fuel charges were noting like the DAILY gratuities debates. And the taxes, not necessarily port charges, do go up and affect everyone the same. Yet there's no outrage when the taxes and port charges can cost the same amount, sometimes more, than the actual cruise price

[Engineroom Snipe]

1 minute ago, ballarinamom said:

Ive been on this board for a long time. The fuel charges were noting like the DAILY gratuities debates. And the taxes, not necessarily port charges, do go up and affect everyone the same. Yet there's no outrage when the taxes and port charges can cost the same amount, sometimes more, than the actual cruise price

There are many cruisers, like me, who do include these costs when looking at the big picture, not just "cabin prices". I include the cabin, port charges, taxes, gratuities, and parking (or airfare) and divide it over the nights of the cruise for a per-night-cost. I know that Bermuda can be an additional $40 per person higher port charge for 5 nights compared to a 7-night Bahama cruise. You will often see the cabin price slightly lower for the Bermuda cruise, but it is more than offset by the higher port fee.

 

I would not say I am outraged by any of it, but I would say I am a savvy consumer. That total price per night is what I need to keep reasonable for the cabin I desire if possible.

[Guinness1000]

2 hours ago, Liljo22 said:

But the problem is that cruise line workers, especially mass market cruise lines, do not get paid a suitable wage and need the gratuities to supplement their wages. 

What is a suitable wage? A US annual wage of $60k? Indian average of less than $3k? I don't think they will ever pay some of these workers similar wages across the board. It would be interesting to know though how much they pay a crew member from India vs any European country for a similar position.

[taglovestocruise]

Removing your gratuities is countered by charging those that auto tip a little bit more. 

[ballarinamom]

32 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

There are many cruisers, like me, who do include these costs when looking at the big picture, not just "cabin prices". I include the cabin, port charges, taxes, gratuities, and parking (or airfare) and divide it over the nights of the cruise for a per-night-cost. I know that Bermuda can be an additional $40 per person higher port charge for 5 nights compared to a 7-night Bahama cruise. You will often see the cabin price slightly lower for the Bermuda cruise, but it is more than offset by the higher port fee.

 

I would not say I am outraged by any of it, but I would say I am a savvy consumer. That total price per night is what I need to keep reasonable for the cabin I desire if possible.

Exactly. Look at the whole, total cost and see if it works for you. If not, wait for a sale or change plans. But you cant expect the cruise lines to add perks and refurbs without trying to make the money up somewhere. I live in San Antonio, Texas where chips and salsa used to be free at Mexican restaurants. Many now charge. Some places charge for bread or have stopped bringing it out. Things are getting expensive and if they can save from one area, they will do it. And keeping wages down on a cruise keeps the cruise line going. They are all in major debt after the shut down. 

[njkruzer]

3 hours ago, bjlaac said:

We have several cruises booked, mostly with RCL, but do have one with NCL.  Just got a letter they are "nominally" raising the daily service charge from $16.00 to $20.00 for those below their version of suites and $25 for everyone above.  This is a 25% increase, which is hardly nominal, and comes on top of the April 2022 increase to $16.00.

 

Now I'm all for tipping the crew and don't believe the removal of these charges are warranted unless there's a real good reason, but this is rediculous!  How long before RCL follows suit?

Confused.  We have a cruise in January and edocs say $16/per day and since booked prior to September 7th can prepay at $14.50.  I haven't seen anything. Online about Royal raising gratuities again.  When is your cruise?  Which ship?  Considering they just raised gratuities in September and the previous increase was 4 years earlier this seems odd.

[lovesthebeach2]

10 minutes ago, njkruzer said:

Confused.  We have a cruise in January and edocs say $16/per day and since booked prior to September 7th can prepay at $14.50.  I haven't seen anything. Online about Royal raising gratuities again.  When is your cruise?  Which ship?  Considering they just raised gratuities in September and the previous increase was 4 years earlier this seems odd.

In the post it says NCL

[njkruzer]

13 minutes ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

In the post it says NCL

So why is post here?  He does mention Royal in the post.  If i misunderstood sorry. 

[Liljo22]

1 hour ago, taglovestocruise said:

Removing your gratuities is countered by charging those that auto tip a little bit more. 

100% correct.  Cruise lines have to make up any shortage after the DSC is applied to the guaranteed minimum.  If they are having to continually make up this shortage, of course they are going to increase the DSC.  

 

Also, the past employees on the NCL board have said that if you give cash to a crew member, they have to turn it in and its used as crew incentives.  

Edited December 8, 2022 by Liljo22

[Liljo22]

10 minutes ago, njkruzer said:

So why is post here?  He does mention Royal in the post.  If i misunderstood sorry. 

Because the OP is assuming because NCL has increased that Royal will follow behind with another increase soon.  

[shof515]

1 minute ago, Liljo22 said:

Because the OP is assuming because NCL has increased that Royal will follow behind with another increase soon.  

yep that is the problem. once one cruise lines does something, other cruise will do the same thing eventfully. Both NCL and Princess did price increasing recently. who is next? Royal?

[njkruzer]

9 minutes ago, shof515 said:

yep that is the problem. once one cruise lines does something, other cruise will do the same thing eventfully. Both NCL and Princess did price increasing recently. who is next? Royal?

The thing is Royal just raised gratuities effective September 7th.  Imho too soon for another increase. 

[FamilyCruiserUK]

Its a sign of the times that the stealth tax, sorry ment gratuities, are going.up. The cost of living is going up every where. However, its unfair putting up the stealth tax, sorry graturities just to keep the initial base costs down to get the customer on the hook to start with. 

I also love how all the "experts" know exactly how the stealth tax, sorry graturities,is divided by the crew. 

Also how much money is the crew charged for board and lodgings on the ship? 

Its a diverse subject that some will accept as part of their culture and some find it totally wrong. Its a personal choice.

 

[Joseph2017China]

My cruise vacation, or any vacation of that matter, is made up of many pieces, and in the case of the cruise, it is the cost of gas to port, parking, tolls, hotel night, cruise price, tax, port fees, tips, extra tips, upcharge for a specialty night, drinks, etc.  It is a total price.  Not a piece of total.  I prepay as much as I can in one big package.  

 

Just about everything I listed went up in price.  There are ways to save and still enjoy a trip.  But sometimes we like to complain instead of making a sacrifice.  

[Engineroom Snipe]

8 minutes ago, Joseph2017China said:

My cruise vacation, or any vacation of that matter, is made up of many pieces, and in the case of the cruise, it is the cost of gas to port, parking, tolls, hotel night, cruise price, tax, port fees, tips, extra tips, upcharge for a specialty night, drinks, etc.  It is a total price.  Not a piece of total.  I prepay as much as I can in one big package.  

 

Just about everything I listed went up in price.  There are ways to save and still enjoy a trip.  But sometimes we like to complain instead of making a sacrifice.  

 

You add up all of the above and ask yourself, "Is the experience worth the expense?" If you decide it is not, no go. If it is worth it, you pay.

[alfaeric]

5 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

The obvious solution is for a cruise line to pay better salaries. 

So you would be ok with the same increase across the board for all cruise fares, then. 

[smokeybandit]

2 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

So you would be ok with the same increase across the board for all cruise fares, then. 

People wouldn't complain nearly as much if their cruise fare was a few dollars per day more than they would if gratuities went up a few dollars per day

[taglovestocruise]

17 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

So you would be ok with the same increase across the board for all cruise fares, then. 

If the gratuities were part of the cruise fare then everyone would be paying, and that sounds fair. Crew would still pool all the added 18% that seems to be charged for everything. Have not heard of anyone trying to have the grats removed from the weekly bar tab. 

[Engineroom Snipe]

1 minute ago, smokeybandit said:

People wouldn't complain nearly as much if their cruise fare was a few dollars per day more than they would if gratuities went up a few dollars per day

 

Very interesting observation as I was contemplating the same thing in interacting with gratuity associated services. What I think you are saying is let the price reflect the true cost of product, services, and profit necessary to continue business without placing an expectation on the customer to pay more beyond the advertised price?

 

This could apply to so many more products than cruises. 🙂

[Mapleleafforever]

Just build in gratuities to the base fair already. 

[Jasukkie]

Virgin Voyages builds the grats into your cruise fare. Makes a lot of sense to me, no removing it, no pressure to tip more. 

[ckmommy]

7 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

All cruise lines pay their crew the same way, it is regulated by international convention. There is a guarantee minimum that must be paid per

month, regardless of gratuity or service charges. The current minimum is $1200 USD per month, which is very suitable considering the economic climate most of the workers come from. 

FWIW--my son is in Basic Combat Training for the Army.  He is being paid $1400 per month.  He also gets his room and board  included.  Just thought is was ironic the minimum for a cruise line crew member is just about what a US Army member makes.

As for the increase in tips per day, if you are against it, pay in cash to who ever you want.  Tipping is personal and so is everyone's experience. Personally, I rarely (even on vacation) have cash, so I pay for the tips prior to getting on the ship.  

[cruisingguy007]

9 hours ago, bjlaac said:

Before anyone makes sly remarks, maybe you should think a little or do some simple math.  That $20 daily charge could be as much as 37% for a sail away cabin or 55% if there were 4 passengers in an inside cabin on the cruise referenced.

 

These cabins are priced for a certain class of individual and they "can" afford to cruise.   How many more people are going to say screw it now and just remove the charges altogether.  Going forward, I'm never going to pay more than 20% in gratuities even if that requires an adjustment to the daily charge for no reason at all.  Especially if they have their hands out with envelopes for even more tips.

 

Everyone should do as they wish or feel right.

 

This is actually a really good point. It made me go and look at my upcoming cruise and gratuities are 28.5% of the cruise fare (without taxes/port fees). I did get a good price on the cruise but I hadn't thought of it in these terms. It's quite high when you look at it like this. Very interesting observation! 

[mpdog42]

18 hours ago, dada2199cc said:

Tips mean lower fees, taxes and commissions on the base fare.  If you want to pay 500 middlemen more money, then build it into the fare.

 

I want prices to be higher so fewer cruise ships are overloaded.

 

I actually email RCCL executives regularly asking if they can raise prices 20-30% more.

Not Suprised!!

[PWP-001]

Yes, this is the RCI board while the OP cited an upcoming NCL change they worry will impact RCI.  And while I mention NCL and "another line" the same most likely applies in principal to RCI because each of the lines is competing for the same labor pool and to remain competitive need to offer the same or appear to be offering better benefits.

 

A few years ago I read through NCL's "fine print" as well as the same for another line.  NCL made a point of always referring to it with the words "service charge" tacked on the end, so "Gratuity Service Charge" and "Beverage Gratuity Service Charge" and through everything said, whatever they collect goes directly to NCL's financial statement.  Think of it as a labor cost subsidy.  As others have said here, crew receive a base wage AND... an opportunity for incentive pay IF a cruise hits performance goals that are typically tied to revenue.  "Hey, you wanna make more money?  Then help us make more money by doing the things we've trained you to do."

 

There is NO OBLIGATION on the part of the line to payout any or all of the gratuity service charges they collect.  The incentive program could have five levels of payout, as an example, where hitting LEVEL ONE means a meager (but something) payout and LEVEL FIVE is a lottery-like payout that hardly every happens, but still can, something to strive for.

 

Payouts for the lower levels could easily be less than the total service charges collected.  So it stays with the line and helps reduce their labor costs, while that hypothetical LEVEL FIVE payout (which might happen over what can be demoralizing holiday cruises which ships sailing a max occupancy), those LEVEL FIVE payouts probably exceed what is collected from service charges.  But to achieve that LEVEL FIVE, beverage sales, specialty dining head counts, photos, excursions, etc. where "best ever" far enhancing profitability.

 

So the passenger that removes the auto-gratuity isn't really harming any crew member.  And it would take a substantial number of passengers consistently requesting their removal before there's a noticeable impact on labor cost.  

 

RCI has these tiny chits at Guest Services which breakout the dollar amounts of the daily gratuity by department, and they're happy to give you a copy.  Absent of any verbiage, it allows a guest to draw the most common conclusion that it illustrates how much they pay out.  Believe that only if they were to include  "These are the amounts that we directly distribute and pay out in full."  Ask the GS agent about it?  Nothing they answer is binding, and probably not true either.  They are put in the situation of providing a plausible answer to get the guest to back off and walk away satisfied. 

 

Why isn't it just rolled into the cruise fare?  Simple.  Fares look more attractive and more competitive when it's not included.  Airlines used to do that.  Remember the days when you'd see a great airline ticket for $198 round trip, but at checkout it was $375 because the initial price didn't include passenger facility charges, taxes, fuel surcharges... and probably a few other items that we still pay today.  Regulators now require airlines (in the USA ) to initially display the bottom line price, so today it initially shows $375.  Now regulators have their eyes focused on hotels that display one room rate, then add as much as $50 nightly (plus tax) as a "resort fee" for those items that used to be part of your room charge.  Cruise lines are probably safe from this regulation.

 

On the subject of crew being required to hand over cash gratuities to the line...  In the USA a "tip pool" can be formed if EVERY employee agrees to participate.  The most practical application is a restaurant or private club where the waitstaff all participate.  It works best where most guest checks are paid by credit card and signed (no cash) allowing the house to collect and distribute.  Then, technically, a check settled with cash and cash gratuity is turned in to be accounted for in the pool.  Tip pools work best in smaller  fellow employees have confidence that everyone is working for the team and can see it themselves.  

 

Conceptually, that is how it could be applied in the cruise line industry.  And based upon what someone else has posted, citing a former employee, it seems employees are required to turn over those cash tips for the pool.  Maybe it's just then end of cruise tip envelopes and not the few dollars cash that's left with a signed bar check.  And the hearsay that "if we don't turn over the cash tip in the envelope, we'll get fired."  Well, yes, in a tip pool, that would be grounds for termination, violating their initial employment contract which stated they agreed to participate in the tip pool.