First transatlantic flight questions

[cruisinqt]

We booked our first transatlantic repositioning cruise in October 2023. We are long time cruisers but are completely new to transatlantic cruising. The cruise is 2 weeks long starting in Barcelona Spain and ending in Orlando Florida. I’m not worried about the return flight, that won’t be a problem. By the way, we are flying out of Dallas Texas, probably DFW.  But the flight to Barcelona has me concerned. The problem is that my husband is 6’6” tall so we would prefer premium economy, comfort plus or some other type of upgraded seat that has more leg room. We can’t afford the business or first class seats that are currently priced $4,000-$8,000 per person. The normal economy seats are a decent price ($700-$900). But the premium economy or comfort plus seats are ranging from $1400-$1600. I’m not crazy about the price but we can do it if we have to. I’d like to wait and watch to see if the prices go down a bit. We have plenty of time. But I’ve noticed that the four nonstop flights currently offered from the USA to Barcelona (yes there’s only 4 offered) are already sold out of their premium economy seats. There’s plenty of business class and economy seats but the premium economy seats are already gone. Now I’m worried that if I wait there won’t be any decent seats left. Is this usually a problem? Do premium economy seats sell out pretty quick? Or is it just that an American thing and they sell out in America because there’s so few nonstop flights available? I don’t have to do a nonstop from  the USA, we can do a layover anywhere. I just thought I might catch a cheap flight to JFK or MIA then do a nonstop to Barcelona and skip the whole doing customs in a foreign country between flights thing. But seeing the premium economy seats sold out has me worried now. Im still seeing premium economy seats show up with connecting flights in other countries. But should I be worried about them selling out their premium economy seats too? Im not sure if I should book something now even though it’s a bit pricey or if I have enough breathing room to wait. What do you guys think?

[CruiserBruce]

Based on a random date in October...hard to be more specific without more specifics from you.

 

First, I am not seeing ANY non-stops. Second, I don't see ANY first class. I see business at $3200/pp, which isn't outlandish for one way international business.

 

Will these prices go down? Yes. No. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Nobody will be able to predict. Airlines are very good at adjusting prices upward at the slightest hint of demand. I would say October flights are not in peak season, so probably less demand.

 

Will premium economy sell out? Yes, most likely, but no one can tell you when.

 

Some common pieces of advice from this board. Watch the pricing...hopefully you started already, and have an idea on general historical prices. When you see a price you can live with, buy, and don't look back.

 

Check your cruise lines air program. One way international flights isre their best skill and benefit. Good chance you can find your way into business.

 

Immigration is the potentially complex process...standing in long lines, etc. Where you have to do it depends on where you fly...usually the first place you land. However, if you go through London, you will do an additional step there you wouldn't have to do if you stopped elsewhere in Europe.

 

Customs isn't a thing in Europe. They use what is called the Red/Green system. If you have nothing to declare, you go through the Green Door, and you are done. If you have something to declare, or are grabbed for a random search, you go to the Red Line. And they can be very thorough.

 

I wouldn't worry about the 4 flights selling out for a couple of months, so do some research.

[Zach1213]

There's actually sometimes a bit of an advantage in connecting via Europe instead of the US - options. Let's say you're planning to fly DFW-JFK-BCN on American, and there is a delay where you miss your connection in JFK. Your options are fairly limited - maybe they'll put you on an Iberia flight via Madrid, or a BA flight via London, or make you wait for tomorrow's AA flight if there's space. However, if you flew, say, DFW- Paris (CDG)-BCN on Air France and misconnect at CDG, you suddenly have 5-6 CDG-BCN Air France nonstops per day to be accommodated on, as well as 1-2 ORY-BCN flights (ORY is Orly, the other Paris airport). In a pinch, you could also put yourself on easyJet or Vueling's CDG-BCN nonstops, or even a train. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Zach1213

[em-sk]

18 hours ago, cruisinqt said:

. What do you guys think?

 

You do also have the option of connecting in Canada.  Both Air Canada and WestJet fly into Barcelona.  

 

Most people find economy. That is what most of seats are on the aircraft.  In the economy cabin there are usually some rows of seats towards the front that have extra leg room but otherwise the same.   Your buying economy and then when you pick your seats paying extra for one of these.

 

Premium economy is a completely different product.  The seats are wider and very similar to what in the US on domestic flights would be called "First class" or in Canada "North American Business Class".  Usually there is a better meal.  This tends to be a fairly small cabin so it will sell out early.

 

The international business class on most airline will be a seat that will open up into a flat bed and comes with a high end meal on china with a table cloth etc.  The US airlines sometimes fly single aisle aircraft and on those you could get a seat that is closer to premium economy.

 

You may also want to consider connecting in Canada.  Both Air Canada and WestJet fly into Barcelona.  

 

If your ok with a regular economy seat and just want extra leg room It sounds like what you want is one of those economy seats at the front with extra leg room.  

 

On United they call those economy seats with extra legroom Economy Plus and it has a seat pitch of 34" vrs the 31" in most other economy. You can see them in the front or on exit rows.

https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/travel/inflight/aircraft/787-10.html

 

Air Canada has a little video showing you what the different types look like.

https://www.aircanada.com/us/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/cabin-features.html#/

 

 

[CruiserBruce]

27 minutes ago, em-sk said:

 

You do also have the option of connecting in Canada.  Both Air Canada and WestJet fly into Barcelona.  

 

Most people find economy. That is what most of seats are on the aircraft.  In the economy cabin there are usually some rows of seats towards the front that have extra leg room but otherwise the same.   Your buying economy and then when you pick your seats paying extra for one of these.

 

Premium economy is a completely different product.  The seats are wider and very similar to what in the US on domestic flights would be called "First class" or in Canada "North American Business Class".  Usually there is a better meal.  This tends to be a fairly small cabin so it will sell out early.

 

The international business class on most airline will be a seat that will open up into a flat bed and comes with a high end meal on china with a table cloth etc.  The US airlines sometimes fly single aisle aircraft and on those you could get a seat that is closer to premium economy.

 

You may also want to consider connecting in Canada.  Both Air Canada and WestJet fly into Barcelona.  

 

If your ok with a regular economy seat and just want extra leg room It sounds like what you want is one of those economy seats at the front with extra leg room.  

 

On United they call those economy seats with extra legroom Economy Plus and it has a seat pitch of 34" vrs the 31" in most other economy. You can see them in the front or on exit rows.

https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/travel/inflight/aircraft/787-10.html

 

Air Canada has a little video showing you what the different types look like.

https://www.aircanada.com/us/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/cabin-features.html#/

 

 

A couple clarifications here. Most airlines don't fly single aisle planes on long haul international, like US to Europe, because they don't have the range. Premium Economy is an international product for most airlines. Economy Plus (different names for different airlines) is a domestic product. 

[JHLH821]

We recently began the fare watch and booked our flights from the west coast after diligently watching the fares go up- go down and then sell out. Instead of selecting a non-stop from the west coast and connecting in Europe, which got us in to our destination exhausted our last trip, we opted to fly to JFK, stay overnight and then continue on nonstop to Rome- doing the same in reverse on the way home. Check JFK or alternate east coast departure points. For us, we decided we would rather be stuck in the US than Europe in case of a cancelled flight or missed connection.

 

I agree, the fares are high and passengers seem to be booking earlier and earlier. Luckily, we had e-credits from a bunch of cancelled 2020 trips so we snagged a great deal outbound flying Delta Premium Select and returning flying Comfort+.  Last September we connected through Heathrow and after hearing all the reports about long lines, we were worried. In the end, no issues and we breezed through the lines.

         

 

 

[6rugrats]

5 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

A couple clarifications here. Most airlines don't fly single aisle planes on long haul international, like US to Europe, because they don't have the range. Premium Economy is an international product for most airlines. Economy Plus (different names for different airlines) is a domestic product. 

I would agree with everything, but note that E+ is offered on international flights also with UA, not just domestic.

[cruisinqt]

On 12/9/2022 at 3:51 PM, CruiserBruce said:

Based on a random date in October...hard to be more specific without more specifics from you.

 

First, I am not seeing ANY non-stops. Second, I don't see ANY first class. I see business at $3200/pp, which isn't outlandish for one way international business.

 

Will these prices go down? Yes. No. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Nobody will be able to predict. Airlines are very good at adjusting prices upward at the slightest hint of demand. I would say October flights are not in peak season, so probably less demand.

 

Will premium economy sell out? Yes, most likely, but no one can tell you when.

 

Some common pieces of advice from this board. Watch the pricing...hopefully you started already, and have an idea on general historical prices. When you see a price you can live with, buy, and don't look back.

 

Check your cruise lines air program. One way international flights isre their best skill and benefit. Good chance you can find your way into business.

 

Immigration is the potentially complex process...standing in long lines, etc. Where you have to do it depends on where you fly...usually the first place you land. However, if you go through London, you will do an additional step there you wouldn't have to do if you stopped elsewhere in Europe.

 

Customs isn't a thing in Europe. They use what is called the Red/Green system. If you have nothing to declare, you go through the Green Door, and you are done. If you have something to declare, or are grabbed for a random search, you go to the Red Line. And they can be very thorough.

 

I wouldn't worry about the 4 flights selling out for a couple of months, so do some research.

The nonstops are out of JFK and MIA only. So I would have to catch a flight to one of those airports. Thanks for the advice on immigration in London I didn’t know that. I didn’t know about the red door/green door thing either. I’ll take your advice thanks. 

[cruisinqt]

On 12/9/2022 at 4:47 PM, Zach1213 said:

There's actually sometimes a bit of an advantage in connecting via Europe instead of the US - options. Let's say you're planning to fly DFW-JFK-BCN on American, and there is a delay where you miss your connection in JFK. Your options are fairly limited - maybe they'll put you on an Iberia flight via Madrid, or a BA flight via London, or make you wait for tomorrow's AA flight if there's space. However, if you flew, say, DFW- Paris (CDG)-BCN on Air France and misconnect at CDG, you suddenly have 5-6 CDG-BCN Air France nonstops per day to be accommodated on, as well as 1-2 ORY-BCN flights (ORY is Orly, the other Paris airport). In a pinch, you could also put yourself on easyJet or Vueling's CDG-BCN nonstops, or even a train. 

Oh wow I didn’t think of that scenario thanks for the heads up. 

[cruisinqt]

7 hours ago, em-sk said:

 

You do also have the option of connecting in Canada.  Both Air Canada and WestJet fly into Barcelona.  

 

Most people find economy. That is what most of seats are on the aircraft.  In the economy cabin there are usually some rows of seats towards the front that have extra leg room but otherwise the same.   Your buying economy and then when you pick your seats paying extra for one of these.

 

Premium economy is a completely different product.  The seats are wider and very similar to what in the US on domestic flights would be called "First class" or in Canada "North American Business Class".  Usually there is a better meal.  This tends to be a fairly small cabin so it will sell out early.

 

The international business class on most airline will be a seat that will open up into a flat bed and comes with a high end meal on china with a table cloth etc.  The US airlines sometimes fly single aisle aircraft and on those you could get a seat that is closer to premium economy.

 

You may also want to consider connecting in Canada.  Both Air Canada and WestJet fly into Barcelona.  

 

If your ok with a regular economy seat and just want extra leg room It sounds like what you want is one of those economy seats at the front with extra leg room.  

 

On United they call those economy seats with extra legroom Economy Plus and it has a seat pitch of 34" vrs the 31" in most other economy. You can see them in the front or on exit rows.

https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/travel/inflight/aircraft/787-10.html

 

Air Canada has a little video showing you what the different types look like.

https://www.aircanada.com/us/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/cabin-features.html#/

 

 

That’s great advice, thanks. 

[cruisinqt]

5 hours ago, JHLH821 said:

We recently began the fare watch and booked our flights from the west coast after diligently watching the fares go up- go down and then sell out. Instead of selecting a non-stop from the west coast and connecting in Europe, which got us in to our destination exhausted our last trip, we opted to fly to JFK, stay overnight and then continue on nonstop to Rome- doing the same in reverse on the way home. Check JFK or alternate east coast departure points. For us, we decided we would rather be stuck in the US than Europe in case of a cancelled flight or missed connection.

 

I agree, the fares are high and passengers seem to be booking earlier and earlier. Luckily, we had e-credits from a bunch of cancelled 2020 trips so we snagged a great deal outbound flying Delta Premium Select and returning flying Comfort+.  Last September we connected through Heathrow and after hearing all the reports about long lines, we were worried. In the end, no issues and we breezed through the lines.

         

 

 

That was kind of what we were thinking. We’d rather be stuck in the US than abroad. We could probably get a cheap flight on Southwest to JFK too. DFW has very competitive prices to JFK. What is the difference between comfort plus and premium select? Is the price difference worth it?

[JHLH821]

1 hour ago, cruisinqt said:

That was kind of what we were thinking. We’d rather be stuck in the US than abroad. We could probably get a cheap flight on Southwest to JFK too. DFW has very competitive prices to JFK. What is the difference between comfort plus and premium select? Is the price difference worth it?
Premium Select is the next level up from Comfort Plus- it is definitely more expensive but right now Delta's rates are not too bad, (in comparison). Some of the perks are priority boarding, more comfortable wider seats with a better recline, dedicated cabin, better food, I believe 2 checked bags. I would price out the flights and see what is available. Typically we would not be booking 10 months out but we saw the flights selling out- we snagged the last two going to Rome and returning from Venice (comfort+). Delta did not offer Premium Select on their non stop Venice flights for our travel dates.  TIP: when searching, make sure you are either in incognito mode in your browser or clear your previous history. 

 https://www.delta.com/us/en/onboard/onboard-experience/delta-premium-economy

 

[CruiserBruce]

3 hours ago, 6rugrats said:

I would agree with everything, but note that E+ is offered on international flights also with UA, not just domestic.

It's being phased out on international longhaul flights, in favor of PE.

[em-sk]

2 hours ago, cruisinqt said:

That was kind of what we were thinking. We’d rather be stuck in the US than abroad. We could probably get a cheap flight on Southwest to JFK too. DFW has very competitive prices to JFK. What is the difference between comfort plus and premium select? Is the price difference worth it?

 

You probably don't want to do that.   

 

If you book your flight on one ticket then if there is a missed connection the airline is responsible for rebooking you (at their cost) and depending on the reason for the missed connection hotels etc.  They will also check bags automatically.

 

If you book two separate tickets  then your responsible for the onward connection.

 

 

[em-sk]

9 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

A couple clarifications here. Most airlines don't fly single aisle planes on long haul international, like US to Europe, because they don't have the range. Premium Economy is an international product for most airlines. Economy Plus (different names for different airlines) is a domestic product. 

 

I indicated some airlines.   The US airlines have run some of their 757 over to Europe on a fairly regular basis pre-covid.  Not certain about now.   There are also some new long range A321 that some of the European airlines, like TAP, are now using on some of thin transatlantic route.  With the Canadian airlines the A321 able to do transatlantic are only with AriTranat.  Air Canada has them on order.  Both Air Canada and WestJet have run 737max to Europe.   

 

The narrow body aircraft tend to be rare over the Atlantic but some airlines do use them from time to time.

Edited December 11, 2022 by em-sk

[cruisinqt]

1 hour ago, JHLH821 said:

 

Thanks I’ll keep that in mind. 

[cruisinqt]

50 minutes ago, em-sk said:

 

You probably don't want to do that.   

 

If you book your flight on one ticket then if there is a missed connection the airline is responsible for rebooking you (at their cost) and depending on the reason for the missed connection hotels etc.  They will also check bags automatically.

 

If you book two separate tickets  then your responsible for the onward connection.

 

 

The flight we would be booking from JFK to BCN would be nonstop with no connections or layovers so no worries there. If we flew into JFK on Southwest on a separate flight we would probably stay the night beforehand to avoid any delays or issues. 

[Zach1213]

On 12/10/2022 at 8:55 PM, cruisinqt said:

The flight we would be booking from JFK to BCN would be nonstop with no connections or layovers so no worries there. If we flew into JFK on Southwest on a separate flight we would probably stay the night beforehand to avoid any delays or issues. 

 

Just a heads up, Southwest doesn't fly to JFK. You also mention DFW above, and they don't fly out of DFW either. They do fly to LaGuardia, and have nonstops from DAL to LGA. You could also look at flying in to Newark (though not on Southwest, they don't fly to Newark), getting in to the city, spending the night in the city (with the associated fun of the city), and heading out to JFK the next day for the transatlantic flight. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Zach1213

[cruisinqt]

4 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

 

Just a heads up, Southwest doesn't fly to JFK. You also mention DFW above, and they don't fly out of DFW either. They do fly to LaGuardia, and have nonstops from DAL to LGA. You could also look at flying in to Newark (though not on Southwest, they don't fly to Newark), getting in to the city, spending the night in the city (with the associated fun of the city), and heading out to JFK the next day for the transatlantic flight. 

Oh I forgot to mention our house is right between DFW and DAL so we use both airports regularly and fly Southwest very often. I forget to clarify stuff like that, sorry.  I was thinking about doing Southwest from DAL to LGA, staying the night then heading to JFK the next morning. But now the premium economy seats on nonstop flights from JFK and MIA are all sold out. And we need the nicer seats since my husband is 6’6”. There are a few sites popping up with us leaving DFW having a layover in Chicago then doing a nonstop to BCN from there but they’re a little more expensive. I found a flight I’m seriously considering. It’s with Iberia Airlines on a 787 Dreamliner with premium economy seats from DFW to Madrid. Then regular seats from Madrid to BCN. So my layover would be in Madrid instead of the US. At least I would be in Spain and not too terribly far from my final destination if something went wrong. And we plan on staying in Barcelona a few days before or cruise anyways. It was $1245 but I found a different site that had it for $1107 this morning. I’m trying to decide if I should book it or not. 

[Zach1213]

48 minutes ago, cruisinqt said:

It’s with Iberia Airlines on a 787 Dreamliner with premium economy seats from DFW to Madrid. Then regular seats from Madrid to BCN. So my layover would be in Madrid instead of the US. At least I would be in Spain and not too terribly far from my final destination if something went wrong. And we plan on staying in Barcelona a few days before or cruise anyways. It was $1245 but I found a different site that had it for $1107 this morning. I’m trying to decide if I should book it or not. 

 

Iberia doesn't have 787s, they have A350s, so you're likely seeing the American Airlines 787 flight (AA36, which is codeshared as Iberia 4607). Madrid Airport is a solid place to transfer - you'll be confined within the absolutely gigantic but easy-to-navigate Terminal 4/4S (which is sterile and boring, but easy), and there are a LOT of Iberia flights from MAD to BCN to be accommodated on if needed. 

 

EDIT - one other option...Barcelona is lovely, but so is Madrid. One option is to split your couple of days between Madrid and Barcelona. Fly in to Madrid, spend the first day or two there, take a train to Barcelona, day or two there, and then the cruise. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Zach1213

[Post Captain]

51 minutes ago, cruisinqt said:

I found a flight I’m seriously considering. It’s with Iberia Airlines on a 787 Dreamliner with premium economy seats from DFW to Madrid. Then regular seats from Madrid to BCN. So my layover would be in Madrid instead of the US.

 

Just a quick note...  Iberia's fleet does not include any 787s or indeed any Boeing aircraft at all; their fleet is composed primarily of Airbus jets plus some Bombadier Embraer jets (operated on short-haul routes within Europe by Iberia's regional subsidiary).

 

A quick search on Google Flights for your route (random dates) indicates that the transatlantic portion of the service is a code-share aboard an American Airlines 787.  You can book this flight through Iberia, Finnair, or British Airways, though I don't see any advantage to doing so.  It's an American Airlines flight, so it probably would be simplest to book it directly via AA.

 

As a general rule:  When searching flights on any international route, be sure to check whether the flight is a code-share, and if so, which airline is actually operating the aircraft. 

_______

 

EDIT:   Zach1213 posted exactly the same information as I was typing my response.  Great minds...😉

Edited December 13, 2022 by Post Captain

[Zach1213]

1 minute ago, Post Captain said:

You can book this flight through Iberia, Finnair, or British Airways, though I don't see any advantage to doing so.  It's an American Airlines flight, so it would be simplest to book it directly via AA.

 

While I generally subscribe to the "book with the airline operating the flight" theory, there can be pricing advantages to booking a codeshare. There are sometimes surprisingly drastic price differences, and if the difference is big enough, I say it's worth it to book the codeshare...especially in the case of this flight where all of those OneWorld members play fairly friendly with each other (especially AA, BA, and IB). 

[cruisinqt]

15 minutes ago, Zach1213 said:

 

Iberia doesn't have 787s, they have A350s, so you're likely seeing the American Airlines 787 flight (AA36, which is codeshared as Iberia 4607). Madrid Airport is a solid place to transfer - you'll be confined within the absolutely gigantic but easy-to-navigate Terminal 4/4S (which is sterile and boring, but easy), and there are a LOT of Iberia flights from MAD to BCN to be accommodated on if needed. 

 

EDIT - one other option...Barcelona is lovely, but so is Madrid. One option is to split your couple of days between Madrid and Barcelona. Fly in to Madrid, spend the first day or two there, take a train to Barcelona, day or two there, and then the cruise. 

Oops sorry my bad, the first leg is Finnair with the 787 Dreamliner in premium economy seats then Iberia for the shorter flight in regular economy seats. I’ve been looking at so many flights and seeing so many names and numbers that my mind is scrambled. I hadn’t thought of spending some time in Madrid but that’s a great idea, thanks. 

[Post Captain]

2 minutes ago, Zach1213 said:

 

While I generally subscribe to the "book with the airline operating the flight" theory, there can be pricing advantages to booking a codeshare. There are sometimes surprisingly drastic price differences, and if the difference is big enough, I say it's worth it to book the codeshare...especially in the case of this flight where all of those OneWorld members play fairly friendly with each other (especially AA, BA, and IB). 

 

Good point.  In such cases, it pays to compare the pricing--and to pay attention to the specific conditions--offered by each airline involved in the codeshare. 

[Post Captain]

1 minute ago, cruisinqt said:

Oops sorry my bad, the first leg is Finnair with the 787 Dreamliner in premium economy seats then Iberia for the shorter flight in regular economy seats. I’ve been looking at so many flights and seeing so many names and numbers that my mind is scrambled.

 

Quite understandable.  But again, unless there's something I'm overlooking, the flight isn't operated by Finnair--it's the same codeshare with American Airlines et al, aboard an American Airlines aircraft.

 

(If you really want to spend about... oh, a good 12 or 14 hours on various airplanes and in several different airport lounges... you could probably fly Finnair to Helsinki and change there for a flight to Spain.  But I wouldn't recommend that routing!😁)