Do you Feel X is Cheapening their Product

[D C]

5 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Consider that the major cruise lines have 45 new builds scheduled for delivery over the next few years.  That's more than the current combined fleets of Royal and X.  Unless a large number of older ships are pulled from service and sent to the scrap yard the cruise industry will struggle to absorb the additional capacity.  They can't find enough crew to staff their current ships.   Service will suffer and pricing can't / won't hold up.

The first thing they should do is cancel or delay new builds.  Especially X where a lot of people don't like them. Don't take out a loan for a new car when the old one is better. 

[BoundForSea]

10 hours ago, Oceansaway17 said:

i do agree with you very much.  Over on HAL it is the music they talk about the most.

Unclean ships and poor service are a concern.  All the other stuff could be a one off.

But of course my own cabin and my own issues would get my attention while on a ship.

And anything that is not to my liking, I have a responsibility to speak up so they can fix.

toodles

Sailed on a 14ni Greece in October on HAL Volendam. I got food poisoning in a very bad way due to what I later learned was from a batch of lobster that was refrozen after the last 14ni that didn’t get used and rethawed and reserved to me, among others along with some other items like Key Line Pies. I KNOW darn well the Exec shef and Rest Managers know you can’t do that. Its culinary 101. Someone gave the order to do it anyway. I came close to having to get off and get to a hospital. Then Thanksgiving came on Celebirty on a 4ni from Miami that was a Carnival long weekend booze cruise equivalent. 
 

I’ts the new norm. Its a temporary money grab. Look at the advertisements on the major networks from X. Here in FL they play every commerical break almost. That tells me they are trying to suck in newbies that don’t know any better and if they never knew what was a lot better, they will just be happy with what they have. We are the ones that the new Upper Executives of RCG (keep in mind that Richard Fein is gone and his understudy is a numbers guy) don’t want around. That’s why she laughed. She has the big picture and knows what’s going on but can’t say anything. 
 

X is in debt up to their eyeballs. These Edge class ships cost a fortune each and back prior to Covid they signed on the dotted line for all 4. Have you noticed all the sudden that the Edge revolution of the M and S classes suddenly halted? Hmmm. Wonder why? Now they have to pay for them and try at ALL costs to not to show the shareholders a scary story of predicative spending based on forecasted revenue (from us btw, the loyalists) that never evolved. So now they turn to the 149$ interior fares, drop the bennies, and become a parallel brand to RCCL until the bottom line gets better. In other words sell your soul to make the bottom line. 
 

Let’s just all hope that this changes as this wave of travel eventually subsides. A return to Dec 2019 would be a welcome change. 
 

cheers all. 

Edited January 13, 2023 by BoundForSea

[talljules1]

Yes, I very much think they're cheapening their product. It has been happening for a while, and now is accelerating. A death by a thousand cuts, it is lots of little things which individually don't really matter, but which in total become irritating. X used to pride itself on 'modern luxury'. Well, it's not that now.

 

In recent years we've moved to the sweet suite life. But with current pricing, X are pricing themselves out of the market. There's now little difference in price between X and more premium lines, so it is likely in coming years that we will be looking much more seriously at Azamara, Oceania, Silverseas etc. Because if paying that much, and these other lines, with better itineraries, are an option, why stick with X? We get the impression that X are not loyal to their customers, regardless of the loyalty of the customer.

[ABoatNerd]

7 hours ago, BoundForSea said:

Sailed on a 14ni Greece in October on HAL Volendam. I got food poisoning in a very bad way due to what I later learned was from a batch of lobster that was refrozen after the last 14ni that didn’t get used and rethawed and reserved to me, among others along with some other items like Key Line Pies. I KNOW darn well the Exec shef and Rest Managers know you can’t do that. Its culinary 101. Someone gave the order to do it anyway. I came close to having to get off and get to a hospital. Then Thanksgiving came on Celebirty on a 4ni from Miami that was a Carnival long weekend booze cruise equivalent. 
 

I’ts the new norm. Its a temporary money grab. Look at the advertisements on the major networks from X. Here in FL they play every commerical break almost. That tells me they are trying to suck in newbies that don’t know any better and if they never knew what was a lot better, they will just be happy with what they have. We are the ones that the new Upper Executives of RCG (keep in mind that Richard Fein is gone and his understudy is a numbers guy) don’t want around. That’s why she laughed. She has the big picture and knows what’s going on but can’t say anything. 
 

 

You are 100% correct. I am in Toronto and they are advertising like I have never seen before. Definitely want to get the new cruisers who will not know anything about cruising and will have no basis therefore to complain. 

May or may not work, but it is obvious that X is desperate. The new cruisers will decide if the product is worth the price.  I most certainly do not.

[daka]

On 1/8/2023 at 3:05 PM, Arizona Wildcat said:

So far the cutbacks have not decreased bookings.  Pretty much everything has gone up in price.  Our various preferred monthly rentals have gone up in price by several thousand dollars a month.

Seems pretty soon the old timers that post on CC will go away and younger cruisers who are new to cruising will take our place.  They never experienced Modern Luxury. 

Right   "US" old timers remember what it was like....but the Young uns' don't know...so, "THEY (the cruise industry) aren't concerned 

We were on a recent princess cruise that had the absolute worst food ever, we cancelled the next cruise and are going back to Celebrity  Hopefully this will be better....if not, then "hopefully" our December on Regent will be 

Edited January 13, 2023 by daka

[Redtravel]

So many complaints. Has Celebrity really made that many cuts?  We were on in June.  We didn’t like the crowding. However, the cabins were nicely redesigned. The food in MDR was very good. We had roast beef twice and double lobster tails..  We had a dinner reservation at table for 2 that was kept. Our waiters were very good…prompt and polite.  Our cabin steward was excellent.  There were shortages in beverages.  Overall, it was ok.  It was our first pandemic cruise. We were cautious. Even though my spouse got Covid, we had enough confidence to travel again.  Nothing is perfect.

[Oceansaway17]

14 hours ago, BoundForSea said:

Sailed on a 14ni Greece in October on HAL Volendam. I got food poisoning in a very bad way due to what I later learned was from a batch of lobster that was refrozen after the last 14ni that didn’t get used and rethawed and reserved to me, among others along with some other items like Key Line Pies. I KNOW darn well the Exec shef and Rest Managers know you can’t do that. Its culinary 101. Someone gave the order to do it anyway. I came close to having to get off and get to a hospital. Then Thanksgiving came on Celebirty on a 4ni from Miami that was a Carnival long weekend booze cruise equivalent. 
 

X is in debt up to their eyeballs. These Edge class ships cost a fortune each and back prior to Covid they signed on the dotted line for all 4. Have you noticed all the sudden that the Edge revolution of the M and S classes suddenly halted? Hmmm. Wonder why? Now they have to pay for them and try at ALL costs to not to show the shareholders a scary story of predicative spending based on forecasted revenue (from us btw, the loyalists) that never evolved.
 

 

wow first of all sorry to hear of two cruises in a row that messed you up.  I would have thought if the lobster was bad you could smell it unless they over sauced it.

And yes booze cruises can get on one's nerves if they get too out of control.  I am not an alcohol drinker except one wine, but I find those with drink packages overdrink to get their money's worth.

 

AS for amping up the M and S ships, I think not.  They should leave them alone and just replace carpet and things that need to be upgraded.  I don't want ugly orange moving deck on all the ships.

I think if all the ships were way too similar, folks would go elsewhere.

 

And right now, all the cruise lines are in debt.   Wondering how 2024 and 2025 will be unless another darn virus comes along.  gezzzz

[MamaFej]

14 minutes ago, Redtravel said:

So many complaints. Has Celebrity really made that many cuts?  We were on in June.  We didn’t like the crowding. However, the cabins were nicely redesigned. The food in MDR was very good. We had roast beef twice and double lobster tails..  We had a dinner reservation at table for 2 that was kept. Our waiters were very good…prompt and polite.  Our cabin steward was excellent.  There were shortages in beverages.  Overall, it was ok.  It was our first pandemic cruise. We were cautious. Even though my spouse got Covid, we had enough confidence to travel again.  Nothing is perfect.

Please help me understand your point. I must be misinterpreting. 

 

I have not seen any posts by people expecting perfection. I have, however, seen many dozens of reports by people disappointed by the verifired cutbacks (coupled with verified new fees and price increases) that occured 6-7 months after your overall "ok" cruise. 

 

I can't imagine you are actually saying that people shouldn't complain about the way things are now (without any warning, nor recourse) becasue things were "ok" in June. What am I missing (besides caffeine)?

[Redtravel]

20 minutes ago, MamaFej said:

Please help me understand your point. I must be misinterpreting. 

 

I have not seen any posts by people expecting perfection. I have, however, seen many dozens of reports by people disappointed by the verifired cutbacks (coupled with verified new fees and price increases) that occured 6-7 months after your overall "ok" cruise. 

 

I can't imagine you are actually saying that people shouldn't complain about the way things are now (without any warning, nor recourse) becasue things were "ok" in June. What am I missing (besides caffeine)?

The listed changes and cutbacks were not in place when we sailed in June.  It just seems that there has been a huge number of changes.  When I read the posts, it just seems that the experience has changed too much.  I hesitate to book another Celebrity cruise.  

[Shep_Proudfoot]

On 1/11/2023 at 7:34 PM, mcrcruiser said:

Try Virgin Cruise lines ,mist every thing included . Really nice ships  all 110,000 tons & even windows in their non smoking casinos  . The TA cruises are incredible value 

I have Reflection booked in a few weeks from many months ago, but yes, next booking after that is on Virgin Voyages. Between all the talk of downgrading on X, those idiotic IVs on the newer ships, Celebrity’s staid itineraries (among the least imaginative in the cruise business) and Virgin’s value proposition and ships being close to ideal size, it wasn’t a hard choice.

[kguerriero]

34 minutes ago, Redtravel said:

When I read the posts, it just seems that the experience has changed too much.  I hesitate to book another Celebrity cruise.  

 

I think possibly the larger frustration that is really peeving some individuals (myself included) is the poor communication of the changes. When you book a vacation, you determine the value based on the offering, and pay what you think it's worth, or move on. 

Many of us booked multi-thousand dollar vacations with the understanding we would be eating 2 lobster tails, enjoying scrambled eggs in the morning in our rooms, and have the presented number of dining options at the posted times, without paying extra. 

 

A small asterisk on the website a few months in advance mentioning "*fee applies beginning January 1, 2023" would have gone a long way towards making the brand look more trustworthy and feel as if it was a decision made in confidence, instead of a hacky cash-grab. Celebrity had a chance to control the narrative on price hikes and spin it anyway they wanted, but they fumbled.

 

The mediocre comms, coupled with investor calls explaining record bookings, cost stability, and an appetite to squeeze more money out of passengers at a time when everything under the sun is going up in price feels like an opportunistic move that isn't really appreciated by many at the moment. 

[LGW59]

21 hours ago, D C said:

The first thing they should do is cancel or delay new builds.  Especially X where a lot of people don't like them. Don't take out a loan for a new car when the old one is better. 

If you are basing your “a lot of people don’t like them “ on CC metrics, then you are looking at a very small fraction of Celebrity cruisers.

[NMTraveller]

8 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

If you are basing your “a lot of people don’t like them “ on CC metrics, then you are looking at a very small fraction of Celebrity cruisers.

People don't like them in general.  If you talk to people on an E class ship they will complaint about the IVs while on the ship.  And these are non CCers.

Edited January 13, 2023 by NMTraveller

[MamaFej]

5 hours ago, Redtravel said:

The listed changes and cutbacks were not in place when we sailed in June.  It just seems that there has been a huge number of changes.  When I read the posts, it just seems that the experience has changed too much.  I hesitate to book another Celebrity cruise.  

Okay. thank you so much. 

Tone doesn't come across online, and I had read it as criticizing those who complain. I appreciate the clarification. 

[D C]

5 hours ago, LGW59 said:

If you are basing your “a lot of people don’t like them “ on CC metrics, then you are looking at a very small fraction of Celebrity cruisers.

While one can debate whether CC represents a typical crossed section of guests, having a product as divisive as an IV is far from an ideal businesses proposition.  I have no reason to believe that CC is somehow biased in either direction regarding them. 

 

And when people who generally like your offerings (or used to before you started running the company into the ground) refuse to spend money on your latest and greatest product for very specific reasons, it should be a wake up call. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by D C

[BridgeMates]

16 hours ago, Redtravel said:

So many complaints. Has Celebrity really made that many cuts?  We were on in June.  We didn’t like the crowding. However, the cabins were nicely redesigned. The food in MDR was very good. We had roast beef twice and double lobster tails..  We had a dinner reservation at table for 2 that was kept. Our waiters were very good…prompt and polite.  Our cabin steward was excellent.  There were shortages in beverages.  Overall, it was ok.  It was our first pandemic cruise. We were cautious. Even though my spouse got Covid, we had enough confidence to travel again.  Nothing is perfect.

 

You explained how it was perfectly; but how it is now may be totally different.  That's what the Executive Office representative told me in response  to my email....."it is what it is."

 

We were on the last cruise on the Silhouette when they shut down in March 2020 and were one of the first back on when they resumed.  Everything was as good as it always was.   Our November 2022 cruise was just as wonderful as usual and we didn't see any reductions in food choices.

However, we can't compare any previous cruises with what's going on now.   Will see for ourselves when we're  back on the Silhouette in April.

 

Maybe we will have to look at other options in the future .....perhaps choosing one of the more expensive lines like Oceania, Viking, etc. instead of taking two or three Celebrity cruises every year along with 2 or 3 other couples.

 

I hear nothing but great raves about the food on Oceania.  Have already started checking out their options.  I see few complaints on their CruiseCritic boards.  Perhaps Celebrity doesn't care about us as we generally book verandas and aren't part of the "Suite" class.   

 

 

[JsMom2]

Haven’t had any complaints about my onboard experiences.  But they are definitely cutting costs.  Just heard from a reliable source that they laid off 60 people from the Wichita call center.

[LGW59]

On 1/14/2023 at 8:35 AM, BridgeMates said:

 

You explained how it was perfectly; but how it is now may be totally different.  That's what the Executive Office representative told me in response  to my email....."it is what it is."

 

We were on the last cruise on the Silhouette when they shut down in March 2020 and were one of the first back on when they resumed.  Everything was as good as it always was.   Our November 2022 cruise was just as wonderful as usual and we didn't see any reductions in food choices.

However, we can't compare any previous cruises with what's going on now.   Will see for ourselves when we're  back on the Silhouette in April.

 

Maybe we will have to look at other options in the future .....perhaps choosing one of the more expensive lines like Oceania, Viking, etc. instead of taking two or three Celebrity cruises every year along with 2 or 3 other couples.

 

I hear nothing but great raves about the food on Oceania.  Have already started checking out their options.  I see few complaints on their CruiseCritic boards.  Perhaps Celebrity doesn't care about us as we generally book verandas and aren't part of the "Suite" class.   

 

 

perhaps choosing one of the more expensive lines like Oceania,  Once you start delving into the details, you just may be very surprised to learn who is more expensive

[Ken the cruiser]

On 1/14/2023 at 7:35 AM, BridgeMates said:

Maybe we will have to look at other options in the future .....perhaps choosing one of the more expensive lines like Oceania, Viking, etc. instead of taking two or three Celebrity cruises every year along with 2 or 3 other couples.

 

I hear nothing but great raves about the food on Oceania.  Have already started checking out their options.  I see few complaints on their CruiseCritic boards.  Perhaps Celebrity doesn't care about us as we generally book verandas and aren't part of the "Suite" class.   

We whole heartedly agree with you here. As they say, variety is the spice of life, and that is very true when it comes to cruising!  We have tried a variety of cruise lines since 2012 (see signature) and have found the itinerary as well as fun things to do while on the ship now play an equal role in our decision of which 3-5+ week cruise we want to book. Five years ago the more port days the better. Now, as we've gotten a little older, it's all about the itinerary AND the journey where a 50-50 split of port days and sea days works best for us.

 

[Oceangoer2]

1 hour ago, JsMom2 said:

Haven’t had any complaints about my onboard experiences.  But they are definitely cutting costs.  Just heard from a reliable source that they laid off 60 people from the Wichita call center.

Do you have an idea what that call center handled?  Probably not reservations.

[JsMom2]

19 hours ago, Oceangoer2 said:

Do you have an idea what that call center handled?  Probably not reservations.

Individual and Group Reservations from consumers and travel agents, casino club reservations, loyalty, post cruise etc. 

[NMTraveller]

I think by now it is VERY APPARENT that X is cheapening their product.  Even to the blind.

[NMTraveller]

A Sizzler quality menu in the MDR and a reduced Golden Corral menu in the OVC in the evenings.  How is that not CHEAP?

[newtocruiseinblue]

I feel X puts a huge emphasis on the retreat and suites. In that respect, it is not cheapening their product. One could argue that it is creating an environment of have and have nots, but we did a veranda cruise and we never felt that we were missing out on the suite life. We were happy and satisfied. Prices are rising globally. The added recent cuts don't affect us as we only get continental breakfast in the cabin prior to an early shore excursion, don't order room service, don't really care about a second lobster tail, would prefer to eat in the mdr for dinner; etc. 

 

On our most recent Mediterranean cruise on the reflection, the ship was excellent, the service was excellent, the food was excellent, the drinks were excellent. Our waiter in the MDR was one of the best waiters we've had in our entire lives any place. 

 

These new ships aren't cheapening their product. They are elevating it. 

[NMTraveller]

12 minutes ago, newtocruiseinblue said:

I feel X puts a huge emphasis on the retreat and suites. In that respect, it is not cheapening their product. One could argue that it is creating an environment of have and have nots, but we did a veranda cruise and we never felt that we were missing out on the suite life. We were happy and satisfied. Prices are rising globally. The added recent cuts don't affect us as we only get continental breakfast in the cabin prior to an early shore excursion, don't order room service, don't really care about a second lobster tail, would prefer to eat in the mdr for dinner; etc. 

 

On our most recent Mediterranean cruise on the reflection, the ship was excellent, the service was excellent, the food was excellent, the drinks were excellent. Our waiter in the MDR was one of the best waiters we've had in our entire lives any place. 

 

These new ships aren't cheapening their product. They are elevating it. 

Report back to us after you try the new reduced MDR menus and OVC that happened after the first of the year.

 

Reporting on how cruises were before the cuts I would have to agree.

Edited January 18, 2023 by NMTraveller