What changes would you suggest?

[mrgabriel]

16 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

. So...  cruise lines need to come up with new ideas/experiences that passengers will pay for onboard.

 

I don't know what that looks like, but I'd say better shore excursions (more small groups doing things like food tours with the ship's chef, etc.) are one item. Shorex are a profit center. More "deluxe" special pop-up food and wine opportunities. Finding new things to bring on board (like the spa, casino) that can bring in bucks but hasn't yet been tapped. Special entertainment opportunities with crazy-high priced tickets with "name" entertainers. 

 

These avoid the trap of cutting out things people like/want. You are ADDING new things; people can decide whether to consume those things or not. Many will, especially those who've been cruising for years and crave new things to do onboard...

 

 

Absolutely agree with this. Several years ago, I would spend money in the shops on the ship - but now there's not much worth buying. Same makeup and perfume, same clothes, same jewellery. Does anyone actually buy the watches and jewellery - or Apple products? And the pre-owned handbags 🙄 

 

I think the spa is outrageously overpriced but if it's fully booked then the market has spoken. 

[mpdog42]

On 1/15/2023 at 9:05 AM, LMaxwell said:

Less than 5% of current bookings are FCC's. 

 

I would suggest they start charging corkage at time of boarding. That's $20 per bottle of revenue and no one is restricted from having what they want. Only those that want to bring wine are charged. It is totally optional, non-punitive, and does not negatively impact my experience to add that charge. Other cruise lines already do exactly this and there is *no* logical counterpoint to it. 

 

Other than that, Celebrity can make unpopular and shortsighted decisions on their own; a better thread would be suggestions for improvements. 

Would this fee apply to bottles of “ Nightrain” or Mad Dog20/20????😱

Edited January 16, 2023 by mpdog42

[Keys Kathy]

3 minutes ago, mrgabriel said:

 

Absolutely agree with this. Several years ago, I would spend money in the shops on the ship - but now there's not much worth buying. Same makeup and perfume, same clothes, same jewellery. Does anyone actually buy the watches and jewellery - or Apple products? And the pre-owned handbags 🙄 

 

I think the spa is outrageously overpriced but if it's fully booked then the market has spoken. 

I also agree. I went to look for some makeup on the Summit and the Millie. Both only had perfumes, moisterizers and the like. No eye shadow. I had $125. OBC to spend and couldn't find anything to spend it on. I ended up buying booze for company. They didn't have anything we would drink. 

 

They used to carry Barbara Rihl bags, now they don't. I budgetted my spending to buy a bag whenever I was on board. 

 

I may be looking at an Apple watch if they sell them onboard, but I know they didn't when we were on the Apex.

[Ipeeinthepools]

4 minutes ago, mpdog42 said:

Would this fee apply to bottles of “ Nightrain” or Mad Dog20/20????

 

I didn't think the corkage fee applies to screw-off bottles.

[mpdog42]

1 minute ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

I didn't think the corkage fee applies to screw-off bottles.

Any fee for the “paper bag” ?😀

[Orator]

The "bean counters" at Celebrity don't need our suggestions or advice.

[Ipeeinthepools]

18 minutes ago, Orator said:

The "bean counters" at Celebrity don't need our suggestions or advice.

 

Current actions suggest otherwise.

[mpdog42]

2 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

You can still book airline tickets and hotel rooms through travel agencies. With the manpower you have now you are only booking 1/3 of the cruises. Simple math says you have to triple that to get to 100%. Improve the website, kidding right? I’ve been on this board since 2003 and they were complaining about the website then, and it’s now 2023 and the people still complaining about it. Where’s the financing going to come from, last I read they were about $20,000,000,000 in debt.

If the solution is as simple as you say, the first step would be to clean house in Miami, they should have fixed it a long time ago.

Unfortunately I see TA’s..in the future going the way of Blacksmiths 😩

[NMTraveller]

On 1/15/2023 at 7:05 AM, LMaxwell said:

Less than 5% of current bookings are FCC's. 

 

I would suggest they start charging corkage at time of boarding. That's $20 per bottle of revenue and no one is restricted from having what they want. Only those that want to bring wine are charged. It is totally optional, non-punitive, and does not negatively impact my experience to add that charge. Other cruise lines already do exactly this and there is *no* logical counterpoint to it. 

 

Other than that, Celebrity can make unpopular and shortsighted decisions on their own; a better thread would be suggestions for improvements. 

What about a porkage fee?

 

With the reductions in the OVC and MDR people could bring their own cow, pig, or fish  onboard and charged a fee.

Edited January 16, 2023 by NMTraveller

[Cruzinforpeace***]

14 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

Current actions suggest otherwise.

They do need it but they won’t take it. These are the actions of desperation.

[Tigerfnan23]

I would be curious to see how the new E class ships are performing.  Personally we've enjoyed them, but we've been able to "move up" into an IV room for pennies on the dollar every time. Never had much luck moving up on other classes of Celebrity ships.  Don't know if these are just one offs or if Celebrity is struggling to fill these ships, especially the IV rooms, for the prices they may need to in order for them to be profitable.  Imagine how much revenue they may be leaving on the table if they are almost giving away rooms that would, on other ships with traditional balconies, be commanding a premium.  

 

One would expect their newest ships to be the toughest and most expensive to get on to but that may not be happening the way Celebrity needs it to and they are about to crank out another one.   Would be interesting to see the ship by ship financial performance.  

[NutsAboutGolf]

7 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

From what I can find, 64% of all cruises are booked through travel agents. Imagine the cost of hiring enough people to replace them. Also the cost of office space, equipment, and training for them. Lastly, a common complaints about booking direct is the time waiting on line, and inadequately trained agents. If somebody post about not getting the answer they wanted, the replies are “Keep calling back until you do get the answer you want”. You think it will get better??

 

6 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

Somehow the airlines figured it out and there are a lot more airline passengers each day compared to cruise passengers.  How about hotel reservations?  Why should cruise reservations be different.  You don't need an army of new people.  The website needs some improvements but it's really not bad to book on-line.  It's not uncommon in other industries but perhaps you pay extra to work with a live person.  

 

I agree with @Ipeeinthepools that if TA's disappeared, people would simply book directly with cruise line.  Most people in the know use a TA that can give them a better deal than booking directly through the cruise line offering a group rate or some other perks/OBC often from kicking some commission back.  You can also book directly yourself and transfer to a TA yet I'm guessing that isn't part of the claimed 64% figure

[Keys Kathy]

12 minutes ago, Tigerfnan23 said:

I would be curious to see how the new E class ships are performing.  Personally we've enjoyed them, but we've been able to "move up" into an IV room for pennies on the dollar every time. Never had much luck moving up on other classes of Celebrity ships.  Don't know if these are just one offs or if Celebrity is struggling to fill these ships, especially the IV rooms, for the prices they may need to in order for them to be profitable.  Imagine how much revenue they may be leaving on the table if they are almost giving away rooms that would, on other ships with traditional balconies, be commanding a premium.  

 

One would expect their newest ships to be the toughest and most expensive to get on to but that may not be happening the way Celebrity needs it to and they are about to crank out another one.   Would be interesting to see the ship by ship financial performance.  

I remember when the Edge first came out. It was on Exciting Deals within 3 months. They didn't drop the prices much, but that was an indicator that it was not full. I will never understand them ordering 5 of those ships until they found out how the IV would go over. It is a window, not a veranda. I do like the public spaces and the specialty restaurants, but the cabins suck.

 

Maybe if they offered a prime rib dinner (which is now off the MDR menu) to all the IV passengers, they might be able to fill those cabins!

 

And please stop having the "non-sales". We have already caught on to that. You raise the price so you can lower it. No savings there, why bother? It turns into the boy who cried wolf, you just start igorning the "sales".

Edited January 16, 2023 by Keys Kathy
added

[Keys Kathy]

12 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

 

I agree with @Ipeeinthepools that if TA's disappeared, people would simply book directly with cruise line.  Most people in the know use a TA that can give them a better deal than booking directly through the cruise line offering a group rate or some other perks/OBC often from kicking some commission back.  You can also book directly yourself and transfer to a TA yet I'm guessing that isn't part of the claimed 64% figure

The way I found Celebrity was due to a travel agent. We had been on Royal and I was calling about a Royal cruise. My agent suggested for that point in our life, X may be a better fit. The kids were grown, we were better educated and had an appreciation for fine food. 40 cruises later, we are still here.

 

I think they should consider us a good revenue source, don't you? We watch for good deals and get suites when they are affordable. We always upgrade our drink packages to get better wine and we usually eat in a specialty restaurant at least once each trip. The best thing is at our age, we can't eat that much so we always ask for the smallest portion we can get.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Keys Kathy
spelling

[NutsAboutGolf]

2 minutes ago, Keys Kathy said:

The way I found Celebrity was due to a travel agent. We had been on Royal and I was calling about a Royal cruise. My agent suggested for that point in our life, X may be a better fit. The kids were grown, we were better educated and had an appreciation for fine food. 40 cruises later, we are still here.

 

Thanks for sharing and that's a valid point.  Yet I wonder, those us who use TAs (I don't), if you're talking to your TA about booking a X sailing but complain about the cutbacks, if the TA suggests to you go to SilverSeas, would many book a sailing with them?  The pandemic forced many seniors to use smartphones and computers because often that was the only way to interact with your friends and family

[Keys Kathy]

1 minute ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

Thanks for sharing and that's a valid point.  Yet I wonder, those us who use TAs (I don't), if you're talking to your TA about booking a X sailing but complain about the cutbacks, if the TA suggests to you go to SilverSeas, would many book a sailing with them?  The pandemic forced many seniors to use smartphones and computers because often that was the only way to interact with your friends and family

That is why I use a TA, she would check the prices on different lines and make suggestions. If SilverSeas is offering a better product and a better price, why not try them out? That is the great thing about TA's they are not beholden to any one line and is working for me, not them. She'll get her commission from the line that gives the best value for what is recieved.

 

Calling X, often they don't know what they are talking about and they are selling you only one product and that product seems to be changing drastically. Now that they are back in the call centers, you have that endless background chatter that you didn't hear when they worked from home. I enjoyed the occasional barking dog. It made them more human.

[NutsAboutGolf]

2 hours ago, Orator said:

The "bean counters" at Celebrity don't need our suggestions or advice.

 

2 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

Current actions suggest otherwise.

 

If you ask anyone "what are things cruise lines could charge for?", they could come up with dozens of ideas from charging for shows to charging for every food item.  The bean counters have already written down every fee and/or cutback imaginable; its up to management to greenlight them

[grandgeezer]

1 hour ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

 

I agree with @Ipeeinthepools that if TA's disappeared, people would simply book directly with cruise line.  Most people in the know use a TA that can give them a better deal than booking directly through the cruise line offering a group rate or some other perks/OBC often from kicking some commission back.  You can also book directly yourself and transfer to a TA yet I'm guessing that isn't part of the claimed 64% figure

The point is how would the cruise lines handle the workload with it rising the 64% plus any more increase in business. They don’t have the money, or the time to do it, you couldn’t just flip a switch and you’re good to go. Think of the extra calls they would get from people who have questions, from what I read, they aren’t properly staffed now to promptly handle the calls they get now.

They try this and I would bet my 401k that they would either be out of business or operating with a greatly reduced fleet in six months.

If this is such a great idea, why hasn’t been implemented fifty years ago??

If you don’t believe the 64% number prove me wrong, or another case of you just know it’s not accurate.

[NutsAboutGolf]

4 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

The point is how would the cruise lines handle the workload with it rising the 64% plus any more increase in business. They don’t have the money, or the time to do it, you couldn’t just flip a switch and you’re good to go. Think of the extra calls they would get from people who have questions, from what I read, they aren’t properly staffed now to promptly handle the calls they get now.

They try this and I would bet my 401k that they would either be out of business or operating with a greatly reduced fleet in six months.

If this is such a great idea, why hasn’t been implemented fifty years ago??

If you don’t believe the 64% number prove me wrong, or another case of you just know it’s not accurate.

 

I believe your 64% number however I have not validated so I used the term "claimed 64%".  You also have a great point with the influx of phone calls that I haven't thought about.  I'm younger than most X cruisers so I forget they don't think like me.  I just booked a CCL cruise today online and the thought of calling in didn't even cross my mind.  I hate calling and avoid it whenever possible and if I have questions I'll search here and google (google often brings me back here to CC).  But, I'd guess the older you are the more likely you are to call in

[Arizona Wildcat]

3 hours ago, Orator said:

The "bean counters" at Celebrity don't need our suggestions or advice.

Correction- the bean counters don't want advice.

I think the recent change in the OV will be partially rolled back.

 

[ISABELLA]

On 1/15/2023 at 12:48 PM, RichYak said:

It's clear to me that particularly with E-class, Celebrity wants to be the Instagram of cruise lines. As long as the pictures look good, substance matters little.

Only until next cruise, which might be on different cruseline.

[Keys Kathy]

13 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

I believe your 64% number however I have not validated so I used the term "claimed 64%".  You also have a great point with the influx of phone calls that I haven't thought about.  I'm younger than most X cruisers so I forget they don't think like me.  I just booked a CCL cruise today online and the thought of calling in didn't even cross my mind.  I hate calling and avoid it whenever possible and if I have questions I'll search here and google (google often brings me back here to CC).  But, I'd guess the older you are the more likely you are to call in

The problem is, the system forces you to call in. If you want to upgrade your beverage package from classic to premium and get you Captain's Club discount, you HAVE to call in. Then the agent will try and give me Elite discount vs the Elite Plus. 

 

If you want to upgrade you internet with your discount, you HAVE to call in.

 

Since my Elite status appears on my reservation, you would think it would be easy for a programer to write an "if=then" statement to apply the correct discount. Heck, I learned how to write one of those 40 plus years ago and never went into programming.

 

If you want to change your stateroom, even in the same category, you HAVE to call in.

 

If you want to know if you share holder credit has been applied, you HAVE to call in. 

 

If their online system were better, their calls would be cut back drastically. Believe me, waiting on hold for an hour is not my idea of fun. Especially when you have to hear them drone on for almost 3 minutes giving you information try to send you to their usless website.They waste 3 minutes of my time regardless of whether my call is picked up immediately.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Keys Kathy
add

[Ipeeinthepools]

35 minutes ago, Keys Kathy said:

The problem is, the system forces you to call in. If you want to upgrade your beverage package from classic to premium and get you Captain's Club discount, you HAVE to call in. Then the agent will try and give me Elite discount vs the Elite Plus. 

 

If you want to upgrade you internet with your discount, you HAVE to call in.

 

Since my Elite status appears on my reservation, you would think it would be easy for a programer to write an "if=then" statement to apply the correct discount. Heck, I learned how to write one of those 40 plus years ago and never went into programming.

 

If you want to change your stateroom, even in the same category, you HAVE to call in.

 

If you want to know if you share holder credit has been applied, you HAVE to call in. 

 

If their online system were better, their calls would be cut back drastically. Believe me, waiting on hold for an hour is not my idea of fun. Especially when you have to hear them drone on for almost 3 minutes giving you information try to send you to their usless website.They waste 3 minutes of my time regardless of whether my call is picked up immediately.

 

It doesn't have to be that way, small improvements to the website would allow those changes.  Several years ago I was booking direct on RCL's website and I could change cbins or categories without any help.  Upgrading internet or beverage packages online should not be an insurmountable problem.  Maybe things like shareholder credit, which doesn't affect a lot of people, may require a request to be submitted.  These are not insurmountable problems especially when your company has significant financial problems.  

 

There need to be some significant changes that do not negatively affect the customer experience and TA commissions are a huge expense that must be reduced.

 

An alternate approach might be to drastically slash commissions that would eliminate kickbacks to the customer.  Perhaps this means that only Big Box TAs will survive.   Perhaps it drives a pay per service TA industry.

 

I don't know the solution but I do know that the commission expenses must be reduced.

[Keys Kathy]

4 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

It doesn't have to be that way, small improvements to the website would allow those changes.  Several years ago I was booking direct on RCL's website and I could change cbins or categories without any help.  Upgrading internet or beverage packages online should not be an insurmountable problem.  Maybe things like shareholder credit, which doesn't affect a lot of people, may require a request to be submitted.  These are not insurmountable problems especially when your company has significant financial problems.  

 

There need to be some significant changes that do not negatively affect the customer experience and TA commissions are a huge expense that must be reduced.

 

An alternate approach might be to drastically slash commissions that would eliminate kickbacks to the customer.  Perhaps this means that only Big Box TAs will survive.   Perhaps it drives a pay per service TA industry.

 

I don't know the solution but I do know that the commission expenses must be reduced.

As a Realtor, I work on commission. If there are two similar units and one is at 3% and the other at 2.5%, which one do you think I am going to show? This is the reason the new "Ideal Agent" philosophy is not working. Agents won't show the cut rate commission. 

 

If they were to cut commission, they would be cutting off their nose to spite their face. Agents would look to the higher commission lines and sell those instead. Yes, over 50% iof their bookings come from TA's.

 

When it comes to TA commission, keep in mind commission is not paid on the first $400 of the fare, nor on taxes etc. Under normal circumstances, that is at least $800 less than the actual fare. The $3500 fare will pay approx $400 in commission, and with any commission agreement, part goes to the agency and part to the actual TA. So say they get 75%. $300. (which is high) pays for their time searching, answering questions, using their knowledge and sitting on hold. They are not getting rich and the customer is getting service.

[Ipeeinthepools]

7 minutes ago, Keys Kathy said:

As a Realtor, I work on commission. If there are two similar units and one is at 3% and the other at 2.5%, which one do you think I am going to show? This is the reason the new "Ideal Agent" philosophy is not working. Agents won't show the cut rate commission. 

 

If they were to cut commission, they would be cutting off their nose to spite their face. Agents would look to the higher commission lines and sell those instead. Yes, over 50% iof their bookings come from TA's.

 

When it comes to TA commission, keep in mind commission is not paid on the first $400 of the fare, nor on taxes etc. Under normal circumstances, that is at least $800 less than the actual fare. The $3500 fare will pay approx $400 in commission, and with any commission agreement, part goes to the agency and part to the actual TA. So say they get 75%. $300. (which is high) pays for their time searching, answering questions, using their knowledge and sitting on hold. They are not getting rich and the customer is getting service.

 

You are going to show me the unit I want to see or I will find someone that will.  I go online and look at all available properties and decide which one I want to see.  Your numbers on the travel agent commission don't make sense.  TAs routinely offer 8 to 10 percent kickbacks and they still make money.  Some TAs may keep the entire amount.  Celebrity needs to keep that money in order to survive.  If necessary Celebrity can offer more targeted incentives where require to fill the ship.