Is HAL looking to disappoint Have it All Passengers

[jaywoods678]

11 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Woah nellie!   Your comment makes little sense.  4 and 5* Mariners earned their benefits by meeting the requirements set forth by the cruise line....a contract of sorts.  That has absolutely nothing to do with "ship within a ship" concepts (we have done a few on other lines).  In fact, even on MSC in their Yacht Club, folks who are Diamond (akin to 5* Mariners on HAL) get extra benefits such as a free meal in a specialty restaurant.

 

The problem is that HAL is simply selling HIA packages that should be "capacity limited."  HAL is well aware of the number of 5* Mariners on a cruise and each is entitled to two meals in the Pinnacle or other alternative venues.  On a short cruise there are simply not going to be enough slots in the alternative restaurants to meet the promised meals for those who booked HIA + 5*,  And both 4 and 5*s are also entitled to a 50% discount in the specialty restaurants.  

 

 

I agree. HIA is great, but they have to somehow limit the capacity. Otherwise they're just not going to be able to accommodate everyone, which is going to leave some passengers unhappy.

[jaywoods678]

4 hours ago, ChinaShrek said:

The real issue, for some ,is that the HIA promo participants will fill up the specialty restaurants on the ship and the 4* and 5*  Mariners will be unable to book their discounted or free meals. I suspect HAL has done this on purpose. 

I agree.

[jaywoods678]

50 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

I’ll try.  People were disappointed that they couldn’t book specialty restaurants onboard  because everything was booked up. These were benefits that were part of a HAL promotion.  You said “too bad you should have booked earlier”.  That seems harsh too a 

or of us.  Where’s the compassion?

I completely agree.

[Laminator]

I am sailing Feb 11th. I have the HIA package. I booked the 2 free dinners. I also booked 2 other dinners in advance. I am 4*'s. It's a matter of personal choice. I wanted to make sure we had the dinner reservations. I will get the credit worked out when I get onboard. I am sure we will also receive 2 more dinners from the casino. We will get those worked out somehow. May need to be a late dinner but we will get it worked out. 

[AFNavigator]

16 hours ago, ChinaShrek said:

With HIA and the crowded ships, it is probably necessary to book everything in advance: all specialty dinners, shore excursions, spa appointments, etc. I'm sure some people have done this for years but this doesn't allow for things that come up during the cruise. 

It's not like this experience is exclusive to HAL.  I haven't cruised on Royal yet but have seen many recent videos/reviews stating you have to book pretty much everything--including showroom and ice show seats--as soon as you board or you'll find most venues sold out after day 1.

 

It would be great if HAL gave you options to "spend" your HIA specialty dining credit elsewhere.  One option would be to let you use the value towards room service for the room service menu's extra cost items (Pinnacle Grille NY Strip $15/Filet Mignon $15/Lobster Tail $20, Tamarind Bento Box items at $4.95 each).

[Ipeeinthepools]

6 hours ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

I’ll try even though I mentioned it before. You had the opportunity to book all these things far, far in advance.  You chose not too.  No compassion required.   Sometimes we really need to take responsibility for things that go wrong instead of blaming the company or others.  

There are plenty of good reasons people may not make advance reservations and no one ever told these passengers that advance booking may be required to redeem these benefits.  The real issue is that there really isn’t sufficient space available.   But let’s take it a step further.  Let’s assume that all of the passengers are internet savvy and are waiting for the day reservations open. Many passengers quickly make advance reservations and the restaurants completely book months prior to the cruise.  Let’s assume you were out of town or weren’t available to make reservations as soon as the space opened up or perhaps you booked the cruise after reservations opened and you were not able to make advance reservations.   Do you deserve any compassion?   I would still feel sorry for you because it’s not always a choice.

[Benh]

Given that Holland America's parent company is struggling financially, because of the heavy debt taken on during the pandemic, it seems a good sign from that angle that things are often sold out. 

 

We also have HIA for a cruise to Hawaii in May, and I'm glad I already booked that dinner in Tamarind for our preferred night and time. I also decided to pay in advance for a dinner in Canaletto. Once I get on board I'll see if I can reserve a Pinnacle dinner with our OBC, and if not maybe we'll try to get something at the spa instead.

 

For our cruse some of the shore excursions have also already sold out, which surprised me. Glad I got the ones that we wanted early!

Edited January 29, 2023 by Benh

[Mary229]

4 hours ago, AFNavigator said:

It would be great if HAL gave you options to "spend" your HIA specialty dining credit elsewhere.  One option would be to let you use the value towards room service for the room service menu's extra cost items (Pinnacle Grille NY Strip $15/Filet Mignon $15/Lobster Tail $20, Tamarind Bento Box items at $4.95 each).

That is an excellent idea.   I don’t know if I would partake but it might at least be a consolation 

[DaveOKC]

10 hours ago, RuthC said:

In my experience, HAL is pretty good at refunding the 1/2 price due 4* Mariners, but still hasn't mastered the concept that 5* Mariners are supposed to get a FULL refund for the first two dinners. 
I have had a fairly easy time getting 1/2 back, but had to fight like the dickens to get the rest of the pre-paid amount still due me. 

How long has HAL had 5* Mariners, anyway? It shouldn't be such a hard concept to master. 

Last two cruises, both on the Eurodam within past 6 months, when we booked our free 5* Pinnacle and Tamarind meals we told them at booking that it is free.  No matter, as all 4 times they charged our cabin at 50%.  In the end we did get credit for this, but my question is, why should we have to hassle with this easy to understand perk??  Since it happened 4 times, even after telling them at booking and while being seated (with the manager), I conclude that it is a system problem.

 

Going on the NA (a sister ship) next week so lets see how that works out.

 

[Crazy For Cats]

27 minutes ago, DaveOKC said:

Last two cruises, both on the Eurodam within past 6 months, when we booked our free 5* Pinnacle and Tamarind meals we told them at booking that it is free.  No matter, as all 4 times they charged our cabin at 50%.  In the end we did get credit for this, but my question is, why should we have to hassle with this easy to understand perk??  Since it happened 4 times, even after telling them at booking and while being seated (with the manager), I conclude that it is a system problem.

 

Going on the NA (a sister ship) next week so lets see how that works out.

 

In November on the NA we didn’t have any issues getting our 5* meals. Of course that was in the Tamarind and they are the best in customer service.

[Florida_gal_50]

4 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

There are plenty of good reasons people may not make advance reservations and no one ever told these passengers that advance booking may be required to redeem these benefits.  The real issue is that there really isn’t sufficient space available.   But let’s take it a step further.  Let’s assume that all of the passengers are internet savvy and are waiting for the day reservations open. Many passengers quickly make advance reservations and the restaurants completely book months prior to the cruise.  Let’s assume you were out of town or weren’t available to make reservations as soon as the space opened up or perhaps you booked the cruise after reservations opened and you were not able to make advance reservations.   Do you deserve any compassion?   I would still feel sorry for you because it’s not always a choice.

You were out of town for months?  I actually didn’t buy my have it all until much later on, before my last cruise.  Long after the reservations opened up.  No problem booking my dinners nor shore ex.  My shorex got cancelled while on the ship.  Nothing else appealed.  That’s the way it goes sometimes. I lost that amount.  No need to feel sorry or have compassion.  Not everything goes perfect in life.  If it does you are very lucky.  There is an option of booking what’s called an advantage fare.  This is the fare between the non refundable and have it all.  This way you don’t have the meals or the shorex including so no worries about booking anything.  You pay for everything out of pocket.  That may work better for you.

[Real NHDOC]

HAL has been saying for years that they will fix the reservation system so that Mariner discounts are applied at the time of prebooking but never has.  In fact, during the entire shutdown they had nothing but time to fix their website which is still terrible, so buggy it's like it was done by a high school student (sorry to insult most high school students - they could probably do a better job).

 

Having said that, I have prebooked a bunch of restaurant reservations and wine packages (in case prices rise on those before we sail) and will get our loyalty discount applied when we get onboard.  I know from experience it's never done the same way twice but eventually it gets straightened out. 

 

But, that's HAL, they just do things their way.  I always say the one thing that you can count on with HAL is their inconsistency.  Every cruise is a new experience for them.  They'll get it right in their second 100 years though!

[Ipeeinthepools]

36 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

You were out of town for months?  I actually didn’t buy my have it all until much later on, before my last cruise.  Long after the reservations opened up.  No problem booking my dinners nor shore ex.  My shorex got cancelled while on the ship.  Nothing else appealed.  That’s the way it goes sometimes. I lost that amount.  No need to feel sorry or have compassion.  Not everything goes perfect in life.  If it does you are very lucky.  There is an option of booking what’s called an advantage fare.  This is the fare between the non refundable and have it all.  This way you don’t have the meals or the shorex including so no worries about booking anything.  You pay for everything out of pocket.  That may work better for you.

Don’t worry about me, I’ll be fine.

[Hlitner]

I think the dirty secret of HAL is just how many folks, on their current cruises, only paid bargain casino rates (or even free casino deals) with many others simply using future cruise credits accumulated during COVID cancelations.  The question of how well the line is doing in terms of real revenue is a closely held secret (although one can find out many CCL numbers).

 

Hank

[Real NHDOC]

5 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I think the dirty secret of HAL is just how many folks, on their current cruises, only paid bargain casino rates (or even free casino deals) with many others simply using future cruise credits accumulated during COVID cancelations.  The question of how well the line is doing in terms of real revenue is a closely held secret (although one can find out many CCL numbers).

 

Hank

If HAL didn't make more net revenue from those "free" casino people they wouldn't give away the free rooms.  Obviously they make more up front from cash paying customers but I suspect the bean counters know that gamblers lose, on average, more than the price of the rooms and lose more when the rooms are "free" than they would if they were paying. 

 

As for people using FCC, I suspect many of them are unpleasantly surprised to see how expensive some cruises have gotten, especially in the Veranda cabins and above.  Bargains can still be had on cheaper cabins but they are fewer and further between.  So, the choice to take 150% FCC in 2020 might not have worked out much better than taking cash since the higher prices are eating up a lot of that bonus credit.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Real NHDOC

[Florida_gal_50]

10 minutes ago, Real NHDOC said:

HAL has been saying for years that they will fix the reservation system so that Mariner discounts are applied at the time of prebooking but never has.  In fact, during the entire shutdown they had nothing but time to fix their website which is still terrible, so buggy it's like it was done by a high school student (sorry to insult most high school students - they could probably do a better job).

 

Having said that, I have prebooked a bunch of restaurant reservations and wine packages (in case prices rise on those before we sail) and will get our loyalty discount applied when we get onboard.  I know from experience it's never done the same way twice but eventually it gets straightened out. 

 

But, that's HAL, they just do things their way.  I always say the one thing that you can count on with HAL is their inconsistency.  Every cruise is a new experience for them.  They'll get it right in their second 100 years though!

Totally agree.  I think I’ve read recently that someone reported that hal is doing a system upgrade this year.  Somehow I bet the discount upon booking will escape that upgrade.  Like you say they had 1.5 years on their hands to fix things and they didn’t.

[Florida_gal_50]

2 minutes ago, Real NHDOC said:

If HAL didn't make more net revenue from those "free" casino people they wouldn't give away the free rooms.  Obviously they make more up front from cash paying customers but I suspect the bean counters know that gamblers lose, on average, more than the price of the rooms and lose more when the rooms are "free" than they would if they were paying. 

 

As for people using FCC, I suspect many of them are unpleasantly surprised to see how expensive some cruises have gotten, especially in the Veranda cabins and above.  Bargains can still be had on cheaper cabins but they are fewer and further between.  So, the choice to take 150% FCC in 2020 might not have worked out much better than taking cash since the higher prices are eating up a lot of that bonus credit.

What you say about the casino freebies may be true for some.  I’ve seen many, many posts saying they spent very little money in the casino.  I’ve also seen numerous posts of people getting free cruises that have never spent a dime in there.

[albingirl]

3 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

What you say about the casino freebies may be true for some.  I’ve seen many, many posts saying they spent very little money in the casino.  I’ve also seen numerous posts of people getting free cruises that have never spent a dime in there.

And then they get upgrades to verandahs.  These are people who say they've never spent a minute in the casinos.  However, I bet they've gambled somewhere along the way. There is something missing in these stories.  What else is new.  

[Hlitner]

9 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Totally agree.  I think I’ve read recently that someone reported that hal is doing a system upgrade this year.  Somehow I bet the discount upon booking will escape that upgrade.  Like you say they had 1.5 years on their hands to fix things and they didn’t.

The HAL reservations staff have been told to expect a major revamping of their software "sometime this year."  That begs the questions of whether any change will actually be an improvement or disaster and whether the changes will also involve the online system accessed by we customers.

[Real NHDOC]

They track casino usage very closely and know how much time each guest spends playing so if people get a free cabin under the casino program and don't use the casino they probably won't get another offer, or at least their offers will get worse and worse until they disappear.  They won't simply keep getting free cabins for life because they used the casino once or twice on a cruise. Plus, don't forget they probably lost a lot of money in the casino "earning" those free offers.

 

Again, HAL doesn't give anything away and know they make a lot of money off gamblers.   Sure, maybe one or two come out ahead but they play the long game in the casino and know at the end of the cruise they made more off those "free" cabins than they did off the paying customers.

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, Real NHDOC said:

If HAL didn't make more net revenue from those "free" casino people they wouldn't give away the free rooms.  Obviously they make more up front from cash paying customers but I suspect the bean counters know that gamblers lose, on average, more than the price of the rooms and lose more when the rooms are "free" than they would if they were paying. 

 

As for people using FCC, I suspect many of them are unpleasantly surprised to see how expensive some cruises have gotten, especially in the Veranda cabins and above.  Bargains can still be had on cheaper cabins but they are fewer and further between.  So, the choice to take 150% FCC in 2020 might not have worked out much better than taking cash since the higher prices are eating up a lot of that bonus credit.

 

I just talked to my TA the other day. She's hearing customers complain that a 7-day in the Caribbean is much more than they're used to paying for such a cruise. And not just on HAL. Cruise lines have to make up the money they lost (and gave away as extra FCC) somehow.

[3rdGenCunarder]

6 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

There are plenty of good reasons people may not make advance reservations and no one ever told these passengers that advance booking may be required to redeem these benefits.  The real issue is that there really isn’t sufficient space available.   But let’s take it a step further.  Let’s assume that all of the passengers are internet savvy and are waiting for the day reservations open. Many passengers quickly make advance reservations and the restaurants completely book months prior to the cruise.  Let’s assume you were out of town or weren’t available to make reservations as soon as the space opened up or perhaps you booked the cruise after reservations opened and you were not able to make advance reservations.   Do you deserve any compassion?   I would still feel sorry for you because it’s not always a choice.

 

No, HAL didn't say advance reservations are required, but they sure encouraged it. I booked HIA for my recent cruise maybe 6 months out. I received several emails reminding me I could book my HIA meals, shorex, etc. in advance. 

[Florida_gal_50]

52 minutes ago, Real NHDOC said:

They track casino usage very closely and know how much time each guest spends playing so if people get a free cabin under the casino program and don't use the casino they probably won't get another offer, or at least their offers will get worse and worse until they disappear.  They won't simply keep getting free cabins for life because they used the casino once or twice on a cruise. Plus, don't forget they probably lost a lot of money in the casino "earning" those free offers.

 

Again, HAL doesn't give anything away and know they make a lot of money off gamblers.   Sure, maybe one or two come out ahead but they play the long game in the casino and know at the end of the cruise they made more off those "free" cabins than they did off the paying customers.

Well there sure are a lot of threads saying people are getting cabins for free that don’t ever go to the casino.  If it was one or two I could see it. Surely there aren’t that many people that stretch the truth.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Florida_gal_50

[HappyInVan]

6 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

There are plenty of good reasons people may not make advance reservations and no one ever told these passengers that advance booking may be required to redeem these benefits.  The real issue is that there really isn’t sufficient space available.   

 

+1

 

Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention. There are many who thought  that HAL was giving them a great deal.

 

Fact is that HAL has been writing HIA deals for everyone willing to pay, not just for a limited number of pax. HIA deals are still available to be booked. So, be wary.

 

We've been told to book early. By now, it must be obvious that this needs to be done. At the end of the day, HAL has limited capacity on excursions and in premium dinner; while writing too many freebies. Some people will not be able to use their freebies. I wonder if HAL will issue a credit for the next cruise?

 

Folks, there's bound to be a crowd in front of CS trying to claim a refund on their pre-boarding bookings. So, good luck to you!

 

Personally, I'm appalled by their treatment of 4/5* mariners. I was wondering whether I should accelerate my bookings to reach 4*. It is now obvious to me that it is pointless.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by HappyInVan

[REOVA]

3 hours ago, DaveOKC said:

Last two cruises, both on the Eurodam within past 6 months, when we booked our free 5* Pinnacle and Tamarind meals we told them at booking that it is free.  No matter, as all 4 times they charged our cabin at 50%.  In the end we did get credit for this, but my question is, why should we have to hassle with this easy to understand perk??  Since it happened 4 times, even after telling them at booking and while being seated (with the manager), I conclude that it is a system problem. 

 

Same on Rotterdam in Fall with both restaurants. Booked them pre board and told managers and Neptune concierge need 100% refund. Never got it so emailed back and forth with Seattle. Finally was told they would be willing to rebate 50% to credit card. When I emailed why it wouldn't be 100% for 5 *, the emails stopped. Fortunately I already had disputed with credit card and the card rebated 100% of the charge. HAL never followed up. So the "system problem" is extensive. More likely a directive to "minimize" payments out.