Sea Rover - Deep Blue Extras. The future???

[gkbiiii]

14 hours ago, aviators99 said:

 

Last month I went on Celebrity.  I had only experienced VV before.  Celebrity was remarkably inferior.  VV staff is much better, overall (with a couple of notable exceptions).  Not sure why you think otherwise.

This is what I am saying about both Princess & Celebrity: if Virgin was better, with ships that were equal in design and décor; they could poach, a good portion of their competitor's business. 

[Lustate]

43 minutes ago, gkbiiii said:

But most cruise lines are at 100%+ (more than "2" per stateroom), they are not profitable at this level, and remain far off.

I never knew this. So brands need to sell all cabins, and have at least 2 people per cabin, just to make a small profit, and if they want to get a nice income flow, need to be at more than the numbers if beds (so they need to fill sofa beds) etc?

 

learn something new every day as they say.

[jon81uk]

1 hour ago, gkbiiii said:

But most cruise lines are at 100%+ (more than "2" per stateroom), they are not profitable at this level, and remain far off.

Yet I’ve read elsewhere that Virgin are profitable when over half full, which is it?

 

1 hour ago, gkbiiii said:

This is what I am saying about both Princess & Celebrity: if Virgin was better, with ships that were equal in design and décor; they could poach, a good portion of their competitor's business. 

 

I will admit I’ve not done any other cruise line, but what am I missing out on? I love the design and decor of Virgins ships. 

[cantgetin]

56 minutes ago, gkbiiii said:

But most cruise lines are at 100%+ (more than "2" per stateroom), they are not profitable at this level, and remain far off.

Virgin is unlikely to ever exceed 100% as most cabins are 2 person cabins and it is an "adults only" line.  I don't know how their  46  solo cabins are counted in the stats as those rooms are 100% full with a single passenger.  Yes, there will be a few couples who may choose to include adult offspring or other relatives, but that third person may also opt for a solo  cabin.  

This is critically different than other lines. For example, on DCL, most cabins hold 4 people, some as many as 7.  And, since most families are traveling with children, that makes it easy to increase the occupancy percentage.  Royal, Carnival, NCL are pushing their family orientation, and even lines that traditionally have attracted older cruisers are adding more kid programs.  Princess is a good example of this.  Family oriented lines exceed 100% even when not all cabins are booked due to the typical "more than 2" persons in a cabin.

 

Cruises that report 100% capacity are typically not "sold out," meaning that not every cabin on board is booked.  In fact, some lines hold back a few cabins in order to be able to move passengers in the event of a major room issue.  6 months ago, some cruises were sailing at 30%, and some exceeding 50% with a rare "special" cruise hitting 75%.  Now they are routinely sailing at 50% with many cruises exceeding 75% and the freebies are much reduced.  How long will it take to get to their goal numbers?  No one knows.  The start up certainly didn't go as planned thru no fault of the line.  But increasing numbers are a good sign, particularly in view of increasing numbers of ships.  We can each choose to be "doom and gloom" or "hopeful," but increasing numbers of paying passengers are a good thing, and they haven't yet hit the 2 year mark with paying passengers.

[gkbiiii]

1 hour ago, Lustate said:

I never knew this. So brands need to sell all cabins, and have at least 2 people per cabin, just to make a small profit, and if they want to get a nice income flow, need to be at more than the numbers if beds (so they need to fill sofa beds) etc?

 

learn something new every day as they say.

Same with hotels, they aren't profitable below 40% on average, however cruise lines have much greater fixed costs with being moving maritime vessels, consuming fuel, much greater staffing, and other related governmental taxes and fees.  https://thehustle.co/the-economics-of-cruise-ships/

https://revenue-hub.com/what-occupancy-rate-hotel-break-even/

Edited February 27, 2023 by gkbiiii

[cantgetin]

There is a lot more to the issue than just filling cabins...like at what price they are filling.  Yes, an empty cabin represents a loss to the cruise line as they have fixed costs.  But a cabin sold at a significant discount can still generate a profit thru sales at the gift shops, casino, spa, excursions, etc.  That is why many lines have "fire sales" as the cruise date nears and there are still unsold cabins.  There are cruise lines now where the alcohol package sells for more than the per diem rate of a cabin!

 

In this regard, DCL is an outlier--they know they will sell almost all cabins all the time, and thus have a model where the prices are lowest when the itineraries are announced and increase as the ship fills (If you want to be on the ship, you'll pay for it!). Yes, they offer a few gty cabins on some sailings, but even then, those rates are rarely as low as opening day.  That's a significant difference from lines like Princess where, particularly if you can be flexible about dates, you can get some really amazing last minute deals.

I think the whole pricing thing is another area where VV doesn't know exactly where it fits.  The line has certainly been surprised at who is purchasing; they were anticipating and advertising to a much younger group. Their recent ads show a much greater mix of ages, again, moving away from their original concept.  In general, base pricing is higher than other lines, but there is a lot more included....and that "mostly inclusive" concept is getting a lot of positive press and customer approval. On VV, I really don't "need" to spend another penny if I don't want to, while on other lines the wifi, tips, and specialty dining can double the base fare!  And even if I do spend, I'm saving the 18% gratuity often charged by other lines.    Their recent ads show a much greater mix of ages, again, moving away from their original concept.  The downside to the "nearly inclusive" concept is that people may be more likely to spend on board if they had less "sticker shock" remaining from booking.

So, if a line is selling at or near "full price," they can be fine with empty cabins.  If they are selling at low rates, they need to fill the ship to make money.  And they KNOW how much people will spend on the ship; they just don't know exactly who will spend it.  First time cruisers or first time on a given itinerary will spend more than repeaters, for example.  In the same way, on another line we did a VIP galley tour.  THey said that they know within 1% how much of each food item will be ordered at each MDR seating...their metrics are that good!  In a main dining concept that is seating  1200+ people at each seating time, they typically have 10 "unordered" covers which are then sent to their crew mess.  On the other hand, it costs more to recruit a first time cruiser than to convince someone to book a second or 10th cruise if they had a previous good experience.

My best guess....I think VV will hold at 4 ships until they have settled into themselves as a line.  They'll tweak things a little, but I expect the current model to hold for at least a couple more years.  No, I don't think they'll be a total game changer in the cruising world the way Princess was when The Love Boat was on TV or like Disney was in making huge changes in family cruising that many other lines have now replicated.  But I definitely think there is a place for adult only cruising.

[aviators99]

9 hours ago, gkbiiii said:

This is what I am saying about both Princess & Celebrity: if Virgin was better, with ships that were equal in design and décor; they could poach, a good portion of their competitor's business. 

I'm bringing Celebrity cruisers on VV on Friday.  I'll let you know what they think.

[Citrons]

On 2/13/2023 at 10:13 PM, jon81uk said:

In good weather there is nothing wrong with the speed of the standard WiFi. The premium doesn’t get a better speed, just allows streaming. 
if the weather or satellite signal causes the speed to drop it would affect the premium as much as the regular.

On the transatlantic last October we had one day of very bad weather from Malaga to Funchal and the internet stopped working. But for the whole period crossing the Atlantic it was fine. 

It depends on the device. We barely had functioning wifi on samsung/android devices. And even then across people it was varied. It seems like the Wifi is geared towards Apple devices and people who had Apple devices seemed to have had more success with the wifi.

[Citrons]

On 2/13/2023 at 10:15 PM, _tacocat_ said:

virgin's premium wifi doesn't actually give you any additional speed, it just unlocks streaming ports on the connection, so virgin's basic wifi is probably comparable to other lines' top tier wifi to begin with.

 

i also believe virgin uses a different vendor/technology for their wifi than most lines.  they were apparently piloting starlink in the med last year, but starlink has a land-based component, so it doesn't work in the middle of the atlantic.  i wasn't on the transatlantic, but i've read others' reports.  the wifi was a little dicey when there was weather, but was okay the rest of the time.  if having perfect connectivity is a priority for work or other critical things, the transatlantic is probably not the place to test that out haha

It also depended on the device you used to connect to the Wifi. We were on the transatlantic and had multiple days which we couldnt connect to wifi across various devices...we had samsung tablets, phones and apple ipads. We did not have much luck with it even for looking on news websites. 

 

I was surprised so many people risked working on the transatlantic. 

 

The speed seemed to also depend on the time of the day. At 6am before the yoga class i could connect to wifi but then not at all until about 1am in the morning. Obviously during the day there was high usage and this seemed to have meant it was mostly impossible for us to connect.

 

We were on holiday so it wasnt an issue. But i felt really really embarrassed when i was at sailor services and people complaining they couldnt work on the ship because of the lack of wifi on the straits of gibralter day.

 

I told the guy he needed to enjoy a holiday....It was actually really really embarrassing how he was complaining. I felt like dying and i was a fellow sailor. God only knows how the people at sailor service. I felt awful for the next 2 weeks everytime i saw him on the ship next to me after that.

[_tacocat_]

3 hours ago, Citrons said:

It depends on the device. We barely had functioning wifi on samsung/android devices. And even then across people it was varied. It seems like the Wifi is geared towards Apple devices and people who had Apple devices seemed to have had more success with the wifi.

interesting!  on the voyage i got off of, it seemed like they were metering bandwidth that went to phones (or at least iphones).  my husband and i both have iphones, both on the premium version, and it was almost unusable.  that's the first time i'd ever run into that.  web pages would get stuck, instagram/facebook/reddit wouldn't load (first world problems for sure hahaha). 

 

i had no problems on my microsoft laptop with browsing websites, sending huge files, teams video calls, etc.  so weird.

 

wifi was also totally out at bimini, which i've only experienced once, when it was like monsooning in key west in december.  the crew said that they'd never seen the wifi out on a clear, sunny day before.  minor annoyance, but we had to connect to resortsworld's public wifi for internet, so no one was able to see their dinner reservations or anything else in the app!

[_tacocat_]

3 hours ago, Citrons said:

I was surprised so many people risked working on the transatlantic. 

i'm guessing everyone assumed because the wifi was good in the caribbean and okay in the med, that it'd be fine in the TA.  i've been on 11 times and have worked a few days here and there - that's how i've been able to go on 11 cruises so far haha. work a couple days/play a couple days, and escape the unusually chilly and wet southern california winter.

 

no way would i attempt to work on a TA.  that would need to be a full-on vacation!

[cantgetin]

I'm actually glad to hear someone else say the wifi was bad.  Your experience is the same as mine--I could check email but not a whole lot more.  There is a person on FB who kindly has said that it sounds like we were on 2 different ships as he had no issues at all....

[_tacocat_]

2 hours ago, cantgetin said:

I'm actually glad to hear someone else say the wifi was bad.  Your experience is the same as mine--I could check email but not a whole lot more.  There is a person on FB who kindly has said that it sounds like we were on 2 different ships as he had no issues at all....

my phone and my laptop felt like they were on 2 different ships last week!!!

[raphael360]

Regarding my OP question:  The future of Deep Blue Extras and future Sailors Club status. I've been watching VV's official website daily for any new anouncements to "what's next".  Anyone who sees anything official from VV regarding their new Sailors Club, please post it....

 

Thanks

[jon81uk]

1 hour ago, raphael360 said:

Regarding my OP question:  The future of Deep Blue Extras and future Sailors Club status. I've been watching VV's official website daily for any new anouncements to "what's next".  Anyone who sees anything official from VV regarding their new Sailors Club, please post it....

 

Thanks

A recent special offers email sent to Sea Blazers at the end of Feb, did state Deep Blue Extras are extended until 31st March. 

So at present there is no news or further extension.

[Chrish2]

The last updated date on https://www.virginvoyages.com/promotions-terms-and-conditions is also worth keeping an eye on

[Chrish2]

Slight update to the Sailing Club page. It has moved URL (previously https://www.virginvoyages.com/sites/sailing-club now https://www.virginvoyages.com/sailing-club). I also think some of the wording has changed along with the table showing how tokens worked disappearing.

 

[raphael360]

On 3/8/2023 at 1:21 PM, Chrish2 said:

now https://www.virginvoyages.com/sailing-club)

This page is new and updated.  They have a form/link at the bottom asking us sailors what we want to see offered to the sailor's club loyalty program: https://vvprod.secure.force.com/SubmitLoyaltyCrowdSourcingForm

[CineGraphic]

49 minutes ago, raphael360 said:

They have a form/link at the bottom asking us sailors what we want to see offered to the sailor's club loyalty program: https://vvprod.secure.force.com/SubmitLoyaltyCrowdSourcingForm

 

Not that it matters, but the "crowd sourcing" link has been there since day one.

 

[raphael360]

9 hours ago, CineGraphic said:

 

Not that it matters, but the "crowd sourcing" link has been there since day one.

 

First I'm seeing it. I even sent in my "want/nice to have" suggestions.

[sollan]

On 2/16/2023 at 2:55 AM, Chrish2 said:

FYI, they keep track in their system what status and program they have “matched” you with. I assume this is so they can later match you correctly when launching the  2023 version.

We recieved an email from VV that said that they have matched our status on Celebrity and we are "Sea Rovers" on our cruise but no.... No show on the account, when contacting them they say that we ARE "Sea Rovers" even though it doesn't show. And that we have to book and make a third(!) cruise before March 31. The text regarding how they will match other cruiselines loyalty programs has also changed.

[jon81uk]

1 hour ago, sollan said:

. And that we have to book and make a third(!) cruise before March 31. 

the perks are only available until March 31st. So it’s not that you need another cruise to earn them, just to use them. 

[raphael360]

4 hours ago, sollan said:

The text regarding how they will match other cruiselines loyalty programs has also changed.

In my first 3 cruise experiences in 2023:  Sea Rover status gives you advanced check-in and priority boarding.

Arrive at the terminal V entrance at 12:30 pm to get your Sea Rover wristband from the nice lady at the front door who will then direct you to the advanced check-in tables in the back. There you will be checked in and get your RFID wristband.  Then go back outside and hover outside the terminal doors until a very friendly VV rep invites Sea Rovers and Romance Package sailors into an area below the first escalator. At some point, you will then be invited to go to the second-floor security area and then directed to the second lounge to wait for boarding.  Rockstars, Romance Package sailors and Sea Rovers (in that order) will be allowed to board.  This all happens before the 1:30 time slot sailors are invited in.  At least this is how it is working till March 31st in Miami.

 

What happens after Apr. 1st is anyone's guess at this point.  The fact VV is still now offering Sea Rover status match leads me to believe the Sea Rover program will continue in some manner going forward.

[raphael360]

On 3/11/2023 at 10:32 AM, CineGraphic said:

Not that it matters, but the "crowd sourcing" link has been there since day one.

 

I wanted to ask: when was day one?

[aviators99]

1 hour ago, raphael360 said:

I wanted to ask: when was day one?

August 30.