Making the specialty restaurants family friendly??

[Colorado Klutch]

3 hours ago, Hllb said:

Discriminating against a class of people for a few bad eggs…hmmm….

 

To be clear, I am a parent and I genuinely like kids. I used to volunteer as a middle school leader at church. Certainly, many children are well behaved and I'm happy to share any public space with them. Fifteen well behaved children in a specialty restaurant? Cool. But all it takes is one kid who is a character from "The Exorcist III" to ruin everything for everyone. 

Unfortunately, parenting is becoming a lost art. I don't blame the kids. As I stated previously, the problem is kids with no boundaries who go completely stark raving bonkers while their parents stare obliviously at a phone. It's not just a few bad eggs. All too often I go out in public and deal with kids screaming insults at their parents and hurling themselves on the floor in a Jell-O fit. 

I get that children are currently permitted in signature HAL restaurants. But the extra charge likely discourages many families from taking kids there. If they get a big discount, that will definitely increase the number of kids and, by default, the number of kids who levitate, spin their heads around 360 degrees and projectile-vomit split pea soup. 

Pardon the hyperbole, but criminy, it's gotten way out of hand. Example: I took my wife to an upscale restaurant a while back. We were waiting for our table near the entrance. A woman and her daughter of around 7 were also there. Dad came in from behind, and just being silly, grabbed the girl and shouted, "Boo!". Good golly, that girl had a complete meltdown. She cried, hollered and whined for about ten minutes in the waiting area. We were seated and, sure enough, that family was seated directly across from us. So I paid over $200 to listen to a little girl cry and complain the ENTIRE TIME. "I didn't know you were going to do that! I don't know why to you did that! BOO-HOO-HOO-HOO!". It was beyond ridiculous, but unfortunately, situations like this aren't all that rare. Ask any adult couple about it and likely they can share stories about kids out of hand at restaurants, bars, movie theaters and other public areas. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Colorado Klutch

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, horseymike said:

I agree. I just like it better when it is included in the cruise fare , this way I know what I am paying and it is done once the cruise is paid for. My personal preference.

The first time we ever cruised on Seabourn was an eye opener.  After more than 50 years of mostly mass market cruising it was fantastic to be on a real small ship line with NO nickel and diming.  Unless one wanted to buy very expensive wines or booze, a cruise on Seabourn meant (and means) having trouble spending any OBC.  One could cruise a month and have an onboard account of zero.  The only extra expense would be at the ports (we seldom book excursions).  

 

Lets be clear that as long as one does not book expensive suites, the mass market lines (like HAL) can be very "price reasonable."  Visit cities like NYC, Paris, Berlin, etc. and you will often pay more money (per day) for a mediocre hotel room than you pay, per day, to cruise on HAL.  That being said, when HAL started charging extra for soup/salad in the PG...the line hit a new low.  I cannot help but wonder when the Lido will become something akin to a Horn and Hardart Cafeteria/Automat.  I should also add that we have had better entertainment on some European ferries than on HAL (on certain nights).

 

Hank

[Loreto]

Last Monday we were enjoying our 5* dinner in the Pinnacle on our Zaandam Panama Canal cruise.  A family arrived with a small child.  They were seated in a booth and there were a few excited peeps from the child, then nothing more🙂, unlike the 2 young men who were seated in the alcove next to us and decided it was ok to sing 🙁.  DH said he had enough and we cancelled our next Pinnacle reservation.

 

There is nothing nicer than a well behaved child vs obnoxious adults! 

[horseymike]

1 hour ago, Loreto said:

Last Monday we were enjoying our 5* dinner in the Pinnacle on our Zaandam Panama Canal cruise.  A family arrived with a small child.  They were seated in a booth and there were a few excited peeps from the child, then nothing more🙂, unlike the 2 young men who were seated in the alcove next to us and decided it was ok to sing 🙁.  DH said he had enough and we cancelled our next Pinnacle reservation.

 

There is nothing nicer than a well behaved child vs obnoxious adults! 

Well behaved is welcomed from all age groups.

[Boatdrill]

6 hours ago, Colorado Klutch said:

 

No need to reserve judgement. I've judging what I've seen with my own eyes many times ashore. Why would it be any different on a ship? 

It's not. Adults and children bring their at home habits and personalities on a ship.   

[cccole]

Hlitner, Hoping that the dining on your 42 day Westerdam cruise will not be anything like what you describe and a great experience.  Cherie

Edited March 20, 2023 by cccole

[albingirl]

8 minutes ago, cccole said:

Hllitner, Hoping that the dining on your 42 day Westerdam cruise will not be anything like what you describe and a great experience.  Cherie

It probably will be. There is quite a bit of drama on this thread 

[OlsSalt]

5 hours ago, Laminator said:

That philosophy has gotten them in the predicament they are in today as their older demographic is dying off. Many also do not have the disposable income that the younger generations have at their disposal.  

 

How is it that young people also do not get older every day?

 Tastes change, even if you have promised yourself YOU will never get old and be like THEM.

[Hlitner]

17 minutes ago, albingirl said:

It probably will be. There is quite a bit of drama on this thread 

Drama? Perhaps.  But reading a few of the recent Westy posts ( and reviews) does make it difficult to be an optimist.  And issues like add-ons in the PG are fact, not drama.

[Laminator]

4 hours ago, Real NHDOC said:

They never promoted the 3/4 guest as a “kid’s cruise free” until fall of 2021. Prior to that the promotion wasn’t targeted to bring children per-se. Targeting a promotion using that term was new. And it’s working. To the detriment of those who liked HAL for the way it was. 

On my first HAL cruise to Alaska in 2007 there were more than 200 children onboard. There have been near that many or more on my 5 subsequent Alaska cruises. There have been children on HAL cruises for quite some time depending on the time of the year. And considering this is Spring Break I am not sure why anyone would be surprised at seeing many children on their cruise. 

[Laminator]

1 hour ago, OlsSalt said:

 

How is it that young people also do not get older every day?

 Tastes change, even if you have promised yourself YOU will never get old and be like THEM.

You are 100% correct. But it is not only tastes that change. And that appears to be the issue with many posters here. Everything changes. You can either roll with the punches or complain. And I am not saying that everything changes for the better. But my life is simply not going to be long enough to complain about it.

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, OlsSalt said:

 

How is it that young people also do not get older every day?

 Tastes change, even if you have promised yourself YOU will never get old and be like THEM.

 

Tastes may change but standards also advance. Just because my parents were fine cruising without technology (cell phone, apps, in-cabin interactive television), doesn't mean that I will feel the same way when I get to their age. 

 

My parents enjoyed the entertainment of the times on cruise ships. I remember them, 40 years ago, doing dance contests with an orange between their foreheads, trying not to drop it while doing a polka. Doesn't mean that's what I want to do onboard.

 

I started cruising at the age of 8. Back then, the MDR was the only game in town, every meal had a dress code, and dinner itself consisted of 5 courses (7 on formal nights) every night. Somehow, I managed to behave. I'm quite sure that I never caused a single head to turn in the direction of our table, at least not in a negative way...

 

 

[OlsSalt]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Tastes may change but standards also advance. Just because my parents were fine cruising without technology (cell phone, apps, in-cabin interactive television), doesn't mean that I will feel the same way when I get to their age. 

 

My parents enjoyed the entertainment of the times on cruise ships. I remember them, 40 years ago, doing dance contests with an orange between their foreheads, trying not to drop it while doing a polka. Doesn't mean that's what I want to do onboard.

 

I started cruising at the age of 8. Back then, the MDR was the only game in town, every meal had a dress code, and dinner itself consisted of 5 courses (7 on formal nights) every night. Somehow, I managed to behave. I'm quite sure that I never caused a single head to turn in the direction of our table, at least not in a negative way...

 

 

 

Point is, many of us would still cruise even if it was like the no frills, more regimented "bad old days".

 

That is the market to capture for at least one cruise line to prosper.   Some of us still cruise to travel. That remains a viable market. And people will continue to age in to it. No one ever said it needed to be the entire market. But is is a viable market.

 

No reason for this not to be HAL's niche. And everyone else can go to the other cruise lines who offer more  than just "travel" with a comfortable bed and decent food and formality. 

[Real NHDOC]

We noticed that HAL has also apparently stopped enforcing any sort of dress code for children in the MDR. Teens and younger were plentiful last night in shorts. Not sure if the relaxed code extends to adults too but I know they used to send anyone who arrived in shorts away. 

[Colorado Klutch]

It makes sense HAL will tweak things to maintain a strong customer base. Otherwise, they will go the way of Oldsmobile

If HAL wants to appeal to families with children, cool. They must advise parents of policies before they get underway and ENFORCE those policies once underway. They don't have to be Draconian policies; simple things like;

- Please ensure your children comply with dress codes.
- Please remove your children from public areas if they are upset and crying.
- Do not allow your children to run about the ship unsupervised
- Do not bring your children to the adults only areas of the ship
- Take advantage of the HAL Kid's Club if you would like to enjoy the adult's only areas of the ship

Carnival has been sending letters to passengers about treating the crew and other passengers with respect. HAL can easily send letters to passengers about ensuring their children are respectful.

To be clear, I don't expect kids to be silent and staring at the floor or a table. I have no problem with kids laughing, giggling and talking with others. They should simply be aware of the "inside voice" concept and follow a few basic guidelines. That's all. 

[albingirl]

1 hour ago, Real NHDOC said:

And yet you feel compelled to contribute when you disagree with anyone who’s opinion is different from yours. People who feel the specialty restaurants should not be subsidizing and encouraging families to bring children under 12 have a right to complain if they don’t like the policy. If you disagree you certainly have the right to express your opinion but to dismiss others by saying “suck it up” because you don’t agree isn’t contributing anything to the conversation. 

I don't think he told you to suck it up. He said he was going to roll with the punches. Everyone does have a right to their opinion whether you think they "contribute" anything or not. 

[Riversedge]

2 hours ago, Real NHDOC said:

We noticed that HAL has also apparently stopped enforcing any sort of dress code for children in the MDR. Teens and younger were plentiful last night in shorts. Not sure if the relaxed code extends to adults too but I know they used to send anyone who arrived in shorts away. 

A man behind us in line on the NS told us he went to the dining room in shorts and was asked to go back and change.  So apparently they are enforcing, at least on some ships.  (Information only, not trying to turn this into a dress code thread)

[3rdGenCunarder]

55 minutes ago, Colorado Klutch said:

It makes sense HAL will tweak things to maintain a strong customer base. Otherwise, they will go the way of Oldsmobile

If HAL wants to appeal to families with children, cool. They must advise parents of policies before they get underway and ENFORCE those policies once underway. They don't have to be Draconian policies; simple things like;

- Please ensure your children comply with dress codes.
- Please remove your children from public areas if they are upset and crying.
- Do not allow your children to run about the ship unsupervised
- Do not bring your children to the adults only areas of the ship
- Take advantage of the HAL Kid's Club if you would like to enjoy the adult's only areas of the ship

Carnival has been sending letters to passengers about treating the crew and other passengers with respect. HAL can easily send letters to passengers about ensuring their children are respectful.

To be clear, I don't expect kids to be silent and staring at the floor or a table. I have no problem with kids laughing, giggling and talking with others. They should simply be aware of the "inside voice" concept and follow a few basic guidelines. That's all. 

 

Your list of policies is simple enough and should go without saying. But considering that there has been a "chair hog" policy about chairs at the pool for years and it is never enforced, the odds of anyone on staff saying anything to the parents of misbehaving children with or without an official policy are lower than the odds of me winning the powerball lottery. 

 

Inside voice? Does anyone teach that concept any more? And I don't mean little kids. I mean adults who have no idea how loud they are (and no, not old folks shouting because they're going deaf).

 

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, Colorado Klutch said:

It makes sense HAL will tweak things to maintain a strong customer base. Otherwise, they will go the way of Oldsmobile

If HAL wants to appeal to families with children, cool. They must advise parents of policies before they get underway and ENFORCE those policies once underway. They don't have to be Draconian policies; simple things like;

- Please ensure your children comply with dress codes.
- Please remove your children from public areas if they are upset and crying.
- Do not allow your children to run about the ship unsupervised
- Do not bring your children to the adults only areas of the ship
- Take advantage of the HAL Kid's Club if you would like to enjoy the adult's only areas of the ship

Carnival has been sending letters to passengers about treating the crew and other passengers with respect. HAL can easily send letters to passengers about ensuring their children are respectful.

To be clear, I don't expect kids to be silent and staring at the floor or a table. I have no problem with kids laughing, giggling and talking with others. They should simply be aware of the "inside voice" concept and follow a few basic guidelines. That's all. 

Children learn respect by trial, error, and lots of practice (with positive reinforcement from their parents).  This is something that must be reinforced from a very early age.  Expecting children, who have never been taught respect and limits to simply change because their parents get a letter is folly!   We have watched children/teens run amok on several cruise lines while there parents simply ignored the inappropriate behavior.  In such cases I feel a little sorry for the kids and would like to strangle the parents.

 

Hank

[keysey222]

On our last HAL cruise, we brought our two-year-old to quite a few specialty dining restaurants. We give her headphones, an ipad and put on a Disney movie - and she behaves quite well. She's used to traveling and dining out. We're cruising HAL with her again this summer and we will yet again take her to PG, etc. while on the ship. She'll likely be a good guest, but if not, my husband and I take turns taking her out of the restaurant while the other eats. It happens. I don't believe kids are the issue with fine dining, it's the parents that are inconsiderate. We appreciate the effort HAL is making to be kid-friendly without turning the ship into a chaotic romper room situation full of go-karts and waterslides. 

[SilvertoGold]

There are lots of good ideas about raising children in this thread. Some parents are good at it, some only so-so.  I find the latter types blame the person complaining about their kids: oh, you are not used to kids; oh, you ask too much of youngsters, they aren't adults, you know; oh, lighten up; oh, are you one of those people who don't like ANY kids? It goes on and on, very imaginative reasons for their children's unrestrained behaviour, with pointed blame on the adult having a problem with these children

Not many children on the type of HAL cruises we sail, but while a few have been not too great, the vast majority very nice and mature, a refreshing view of the possibilities of raising well behaved kids.

Edited March 20, 2023 by SilvertoGold

[3rdGenCunarder]

5 minutes ago, keysey222 said:

I don't believe kids are the issue with fine dining, it's the parents that are inconsiderate.

 

I agree. We didn't have children but were blessed with friends who raised delightful kids. Of course, they had their moments, all kids do. But when they were out with the grown-ups, they saw it as a special occasion, and knew it was time to bring out their best manners. I remember one time when they were at our house for dinner (no kids table, they ate with us), one of the kids said "Mommy, are we being good?" So I knew they had "the talk" in the car on the way to our house. 

[Hllb]

1 hour ago, Colorado Klutch said:

- Do not allow your children to run about the ship unsupervised


To be clear, I don't expect kids to be silent and staring at the floor or a table. I have no problem with kids laughing, giggling and talking with others. They should simply be aware of the "inside voice" concept and follow a few basic guidelines. That's all. 

I suppose this bullet depends on the age of said children. Don't let your 5 year old go around the ship alone, sure. But lots of people trust their teens/preteens to go somewhere on a ship alone at some point. On our last cruise, my older 2 were 13 and 14 and they did sometimes go out on their own. 

 

Your last paragraph contradicts your earlier statements, tbh. You say you just want a few basic guidelines (which are reasonable) but also seemed to support barring them from the specialty restaurants - automatically assuming they are incapable of following basic restaurant guidelines. 

[Real NHDOC]

Just realized that according to the policy kids under 12 get a better discount than 5 star mariners in Rudi’s (50% vs 25%) and Nami Sushi (50% vs 0%). Nice!

[moscow123456]

1 hour ago, keysey222 said:

She'll likely be a good guest, but if not, my husband and I take turns taking her out of the restaurant while the other eats. It happens. I don't believe kids are the issue with fine dining, it's the parents that are inconsiderate.  

Oh, how I remember those days!  LOL!  I cannot tell you how many cold meals I (or my husband) ate while we removed our son from the situation.  But he learned - which is why we did it.  Children can be taught.  They just need someone to care enough to teach them that there are rules, that they are expected to follow them, and if they do not, they will lose privileges. 

 

I recall once when we were at WDW and he was misbehaving in line.  He got pulled out of line, marched over the nearest wall, and was instructed to stand facing it until he could get himself under control.  (And we were right up front in the line - so he blew it right near the finish line that time!)  He also did not get to ride the ride that day due to his failure to follow the rules.  I had one woman come over to me to criticize me for being "cruel" to my son at WDW.  I informed her that it would be crueler to let him believe that there are no consequences for bad behavior. 

 

Now at almost age 14, he will be eating at both Rudi's and PG on our cruise (he loves seafood and is looking forward to ordering lobster); he will be dressed appropriately in a button-down shirt and a nice pair of pants; and will not be playing any video games or on a phone (he doesn't even have one) at dinner.  Instead, he will be talking with his mom and dad (who also will not have any electronics at the table as they are restricted while eating in our home) just like he does every evening at dinner in our house.  

 

Children can indeed learn how to behave in public.  They just need the adults around them to be willing to spend time and energy on them and with them - and sometimes that also causes the parents to lose out on something they might want but no one ever said parenting would be easy.  

Edited March 20, 2023 by moscow123456
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