Price warranty, flooding of unsold places elsewhere and wait listed shown on Silversea.

[les37b]

We got back a couple of days ago from what was a mostly enjoyable Silver Dawn Caribbean cruise 2 days ago, which passed thankfully without incident, unlike the last!

 

I did post while on board making an usual reference to the fact for the first time ever, UK guests outnumbered US guests by about 3 to 1. I've never seen this outside of Europe or Asia and certainly the Caribbean has always been heavily weighted towards the US. No problem with that - just my observations of how I've seen it.

 

Anyway, one thing that was certainly noticeable was that there was a huge number of guests with bookings from 2 large UK companies. Almost part charter territory. Again, it didn't effect things for us personally, but we did think at the time, the make up of the guests was a little different to the usual. Again - no big deal and not making judgments. I did however note from a few of the guests who were first timers, (one group was of 14 guests!) that they mentioned they had got a great deal for their cruise. Good for them I say. But.............   I did notice months ago that our cruise had been waitlisted and many of these guests said they had made their bookings in the past few weeks. Which made me think that Silversea are selling this cruise off cheap and en masse rather than reduce the price online and bypass the price warranty. 

 

For the first time since I've sailed with SS, I didn't bother to take advantage of the extra 5% off by booking on board. The early booking bonus already gone and knowing offers are abound below the radar, made that decision easy.

 

Since getting home, I've looked at the pricing on our next sailing on SS which is Jan 2024. It seems this agent who specialise in bulk deals, have my sailing and advertising at the same price as SS who haven't waitlisted it yet. (ie book from either at the same price.)

 

However, I did find a Silver Dawn sailing on 27th August (British Isles) for 12 nights going for £2999 for a balcony suite. On the Silversea website, this cruise is waitlisted. I dont know what the D2D price was - but I think its a safe bet that the price was higher than that considerably. I suspect there wont be a "price warranty" claim that can be requested.

 

Is this just an underhand way for Silversea to advertise a price warranty they wont honour? I've certainly been fortunate in the past to take advantage in the past and the forum is full of examples with subtle changes are made to make that warranty worthless. Not sure if anyone has manage to secure anything for a un-sailed date?

 

My sailing was flooded with discounted fares on my waitlisted cruise and the same clearly applies to the Silver Dawn sailing mentioned above in August.

 

Very underhanded practice if this is the shape of things to come.

 

I've deliberately not posted the name of the company as it may contravene CC agency rules, but it is a well known UK company that sell mass market, so I imagine it shouldn't be too hard to find.

 

I've certainly seen comments in the past for complaints about "charter / semi charter" cruises. To be clear, there wasn't anything in this that made a difference to our enjoyment - just something that needs a close watch. A waitlisted cruise may not be what we are led to believe!

Edited March 26, 2023 by les37b

[saminina]

The  self described ultra luxury cruise lines have dug themselves into a hole building ships for which that market does not exist.   So you are going to see passengers and crew in 2023 that would not have had this opportunity ten years ago.   They're not going to fill berths today without some marketing adjustments and it is up to you, er us, to be aware of better deals to be had.

[Tex1]

It’s quite common for large TAs and travel companies to book large number of rooms at a discount for the purpose of resale.  This has nothing to do with the company trying to get out of price guarantee.  This is purely an effort from travel company to make more money then with traditional direct bookings.

[les37b]

2 minutes ago, Tex1 said:

It’s quite common for large TAs and travel companies to book large number of rooms at a discount for the purpose of resale.  This has nothing to do with the company trying to get out of price guarantee.  This is purely an effort from travel company to make more money then with traditional direct bookings.

 

So its a coincidence that a SS cruise sold to "regular" guests can no longer be bought direct, but they can buy from a third party at a massively discounted price?

 

Do you think SS will refund the higher price paid to direct bookers?

[Tex1]

2 hours ago, les37b said:

 

So its a coincidence that a SS cruise sold to "regular" guests can no longer be bought direct, but they can buy from a third party at a massively discounted price?

 

Do you think SS will refund the higher price paid to direct bookers?

No they won’t, and see no reason they should.  These were bought by the travel as a block and resold.   This happens on cruise ships ALL the time, on all lines. Yes they bought them with a large volume discount.  Just as anyone could get larger and large discounts depending on how many b2b trips.  Should SS discount the discount rate they paid to all travels?  

[Stumblefoot]

4 hours ago, les37b said:

Not sure if anyone has manage to secure anything for a un-sailed date?

Welcome home, Les.

 

Not sure I understand your question, i.e. unsailed date, but as I posted recently about this particular topic, yes, we secured a refund for our voyage that has yet to sail. I hope I have answered your question correctly.

[les37b]

1 minute ago, Stumblefoot said:

Welcome home, Les.

 

Not sure I understand your question, i.e. unsailed date, but as I posted recently about this particular topic, yes, we secured a refund for our voyage that has yet to sail. I hope I have answered your question correctly.

 

Is the cruise still bookable with SS? I did interact with you on the topic, but didn't know it was still a future sailing. I'm sure you will agree, its a rare thing now to happen. 

 

The cruise I refer (as well as my own) was / is no longer being sold by SS - but you could / can buy it through an agent at a discounted price. As Tex1 just suggested, you wouldn't get a refund in those circumstances. Would you have been happy if your sailing was now showing on SS as wait listed, but were able to book the same cruise through an agent with a 40% plus discount and now effectively become a charter you've paid SS rates for?

 

 

[Stumblefoot]

1 minute ago, les37b said:

Is the cruise still bookable with SS?

Thanks for the explanation.  Yes, our voyage is still bookable through SS and their traditional channels. It has not been dumped into a distressed sales channel as you describe.

 

Did SS dump your voyage into the distressed channel after the penalty date had arrived?

[les37b]

12 minutes ago, Stumblefoot said:

Thanks for the explanation.  Yes, our voyage is still bookable through SS and their traditional channels. It has not been dumped into a distressed sales channel as you describe.

 

Did SS dump your voyage into the distressed channel after the penalty date had arrived?

 

I'm not privee to such information, but I do know my sailing was wait listed months ago and the sailing that I found that prompted this topic is a sailing on 27th August, so 154 days away. I'm sure you will appreciate I've posted because it doesn't seem right or fair. I don't even know what these "such a great price" fares people paid. Didn't seem relevant at the time and only after I saw this British Isles sailing that I twigged.

 

Obviously your sailing isn't one that this dubious practice applies to as SS are still selling it, but if it had and you found out you could book it elsewhere for a huge saving, would you feel that was ok? For argument sake, its inside the penalty charge time frame, so you can't cancel and rebook without charge? You can't just cancel either because you thought the dynamic will have changed without penalty. 

 

It's not something I've noticed before. So if its common practice at Silversea to do this (despite something that was claimed in the past that they don't dump unsold suites) it feels like more erosion of what Silversea was. I guess that maybe the big difference here if its always happened, is that these cruises are now shown as wait listed. Has that always been the case (if as suggested its common practice?)

 

Like I've maintained here, the cruise just finished was fine. The make up of passengers was definitely different for the reasons stated but wasn't a problem. If I paid more for the cruise than I could have paid and missed a potential part refund, so be it..... But it's something I'm sure is not just an eye opener for me to find out and not a bad thing to suggest to check things...... especially if your cruise has just gone wait listed.

 

 

 

 

 

[fdnycruiser]

I’m not a Travel Agent, but know from experience with more than a few lines, that there are high volume travel travel agencies that they deal with.These high volume agencies guarantee the cruise line they will buy X amount of rooms. As such, they’ re  usually given a better price, and incentives because of they’re guaranteeing they will sell them. And yes, quite often the line will have a cruise waitlisted, but an agency will have cabins available. Also, as you may be aware. You can book through the cruise line,and transfer the booking to an agency. Often you’ll wind up with a better price,and/ or incentives. At least that’s the way I understand it. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

[jimdee3636]

Unless they're violating a law or the terms of a contract, Silversea/ Royal Caribbean is free to sell cabins to whomever they wish to at whatever price they wish to. However, just because they can doesn't mean they should.

 

It's a bad business decision. It alienates local customers like @les37b, and it cheapens the image of the brand. Apparently, the large group on Les's cruise was well-behaved, but that's often not the case with "alcohol included" lines like Silversea and Seabourn twhen they sell deeply-discounted cabins to large groups, many of whom will view it as an all-you-can-drink "booze cruise." 

 

And even if they don't over-indulge on the alcohol, people who get things for a bargain price will usually brag about what a deal they got. Once the word gets around that you can book a SS cruise for, say, the same price as a Celebrity or Princess or Holland America cruise, the SS brand may never recover its cachet.

 

As the old saying goes, it's penny wise, pound foolish.

[gcornell]

59 minutes ago, fdnycruiser said:You can book through the cruise line,and transfer the booking to an agency. Often you’ll wind up with a better price,and/ or incentives. At least that’s the way I understand it. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Correct but the booking would need to be transferred within 30 days for the new agent to receive the commission. 

[Stumblefoot]

1 hour ago, les37b said:

[If] you found out you could book it elsewhere for a huge saving, would you feel that was ok? For argument sake, it’s inside the penalty charge time frame, so you can't cancel and rebook without charge?

It really doesn’t matter what I think because I don’t book direct and as such, such activity doesn’t impact me.

2 hours ago, les37b said:

Has that always been the case (if as suggested its common practice?)

I have no idea.  But, my assumption is such a practice wasn’t normally the case in the past. But, I have no data to prove my assumption one way or the other.

 

29 minutes ago, jimdee3636 said:

Once the word gets around that you can book a SS cruise for, say, the same price as a Celebrity or Princess or Holland America cruise, the SS brand may never recover its cachet.

True

[Silver Spectre]

Well the Venetian Society cruise in September this year is currently showing as £1300 per person cheaper than SS on one of the big U.K. discounters, that is serious discounting. Why on earth would anyone book it direct.

[les37b]

43 minutes ago, Stumblefoot said:

It really doesn’t matter what I think because I don’t book direct and as such, such activity doesn’t impact me.

 

You’ve just said you got a price guarantee refund for an un-sailed cruise so clearly the same rules do apply. But fair enough if you say you’re not bothered if you find out you could have booked for 40% less and can’t see the issue.

 

 

43 minutes ago, Stumblefoot said:

I have no idea.  But, my assumption is such a practice wasn’t normally the case in the past. But, I have no data to prove my assumption one way or the other.

To be fair, the cost of my just finished booking, I never once looked on other sites to check on alternative supplier pricing. I never for one moment thought when I saw it was wait listed meant it was anything other than fully sold. I’ve no idea how many suites were passed over but do think it was a fairly high percentage.

 

It’s the 27th August sailing which I’d happily book with the third party supplier if I’d not already got too many cruises booked within the next 12 months. I’m free to do that… but those already booked either with SS or your TA are tied to the price paid. Just saying it makes the guarantee less believable and think knowing these huge discounts are available weakens the brand. 
 

It’s been suggested this is a common thing. Maybe it is, but it’s the first time I’ve seen wait listing mean it’s now been made into a part charter and given a reason to hang on.

 

Just an opinion it’s a big mistake and more so if it’s a trend. 

 

[Stumblefoot]

3 minutes ago, Silver Spectre said:

Why on earth would anyone book it direct?

I’ve never understood it either, but the subject seems to be as contentious as dress code or food for some.

[Stumblefoot]

1 minute ago, les37b said:

You’ve just said you got a price guarantee refund for an un-sailed cruise so clearly the same rules do apply. But fair enough if you say you’re not bothered if you find out you could have booked for 40% less and can’t see the issue.

You’re not understanding my point. Send me a DM and I’ll clarify. Not going to continue this back-n-forth with you here.

[FlyerTalker]

40 minutes ago, Stumblefoot said:

You’re not understanding my point. Send me a DM and I’ll clarify. Not going to continue this back-n-forth with you here.

 

You know of a way to send a message through CC?

 

 

[Stumblefoot]

1 minute ago, FlyerTalker said:

You know of a way to send a message through CC?

No.  But, Les knows how to reach me directly.

[cruiseej]

I'm not sure I understand the issue. If the agency buys a large block of suites at a discounted price, then the cruise line has none left to sell, and the agency has a lot to sell at their volume booking/discounted price. Are you suggesting that because the cruise line sold a large block of suites to the agency, they should turn around an offer the same lower price to every direct-booked customer? If they did that, they really wouldn't be able to sell to agencies at all, or they'd need to implement general variable pricing which can go down or up, like airlines and hotels. The latter would penalize customers who book early, so they don't want to do that. The former would remove a channel they can use to fill remaining inventory on their ships, when needed, at a discount for those who book through these agencies. 

[mancunian]

We are in fact booked on the 27th August trip that Les mentions.  I have always been under the impression that this cruise was a full charter as the company involved are bringing three additional entertainers to the Silversea ones, Kathryn Jenkins, Aled Jones and Lulu all of whom are doing an evening show.  We booked this a long time ago and I am fairly certain that SS did not have it listed at that time.  It is now listed as waitlisted for all cabin types.  Said firm seems to do one of these each year, last year being on Seabourn.   

 

They do do other smaller cabin blocks on cruises several of them on SS.  This will be our third such cruise of this type.  We do also do SS cruises booking in the usual way.  First and foremost we go for the itinerary we wish to do and the two previous ones on SS with this firm was combining a 9 night cruise on Shadow with a week land trip of India, the other last year combined with a stay on an island off Venice.  

 

I have noted that nearly all their offerings are on Silver Spirit.

[les37b]

38 minutes ago, mancunian said:

We are in fact booked on the 27th August trip that Les mentions.  I have always been under the impression that this cruise was a full charter as the company involved are bringing three additional entertainers to the Silversea ones, Kathryn Jenkins, Aled Jones and Lulu all of whom are doing an evening show.  We booked this a long time ago and I am fairly certain that SS did not have it listed at that time.  It is now listed as waitlisted for all cabin types.  Said firm seems to do one of these each year, last year being on Seabourn.   

 

They do do other smaller cabin blocks on cruises several of them on SS.  This will be our third such cruise of this type.  We do also do SS cruises booking in the usual way.  First and foremost we go for the itinerary we wish to do and the two previous ones on SS with this firm was combining a 9 night cruise on Shadow with a week land trip of India, the other last year combined with a stay on an island off Venice.  

 

I have noted that nearly all their offerings are on Silver Spirit.

You bagged yourself a bargain price!

 

The sailing I just returned from certainly wasn’t a full charter and if this one is, it begs the question why SS are listing it at all. I know in the past, cruise blocks have been dropped and date gaps appear, but not for this time. If it is a full charter, then obviously the agent is free to do whatever they want. If it isn’t, then I certainly feel for those guests who booked direct or through a different TA and probably paid 40% more than their fellow guests. Maybe Im being a little sensitive to think that’s unfair if that’s the case and booking early to guarantee getting the best price is not all it’s cracked up to be!

 

 

[lincslady]

I have to agree with you, les37b.  I am a huge believer in fair play, and do get miffed to find others, probably not your usual Silversea/other luxury line passengers can  pay quite a lot less for the same cruise.  It now seems that we must wait to book and keep a lookout for these special offers if they crop up, but it is galling and off-putting.  However, it seems that is what happens, and not just with Silversea, so it is a case of putting up with it, as it obviously not illegal even if it feels unfair to some people.

[Silver Spectre]

18 hours ago, Silver Spectre said:

Well the Venetian Society cruise in September this year is currently showing as £1300 per person cheaper than SS on one of the big U.K. discounters, that is serious discounting. Why on earth would anyone book it direct.

Mea Culpa, the website actually showed the P2P reduced price based on the D2D price, so rather a cheeky misrepresentation IMHO. It was only a discount of £200.

[mancunian]

I think you have to keep this in perspective. It is really no different to buying a TV and the finding in the sales the very same model at a knockdown price.   You could not have known that particular model would have been in the sale.    Very few cruises have cabins passed on like this.     Probably i. the case of SS about three or four a year, though earlier this year there were about four far eastern ones reduced likely to have been the problems around Hong Kong.  
 

You could of course change cruise lines but where to.  To my knowledge the firm in question have had offerings I have seen from SS, Seabourn, Azamara, Cunard, p&o, Celebrity and Holland America and probably others.  The ones I have never seen are Carnival, Royal Caribbean and MSC!!!!

 

Cruiselines are having a tough time he after effects of the pandemic - some people still are uneasy about cruising and lines have to fill their ships and most have had new ships in this period - SS more than most.   If a cruise is not filling they could reduce the fares themselves, but only by expensive advertising and they may still not fill them.  Much easier to sell them as a block.

 

Lincslady suggests it will stop us booking early and watch for these special offers which will be galling and off putting.  Yes it will because the three or four offered may well be at an inconvenient time and not where you want to cruise.  You will almost certainly not get the cabin you want.   

 

Our method is that we look to book two cruises a year and perhaps three.  We book the first two early when the brochures come out in the usual way and then if a third one comes up later we often fall for it particularly if it is 7 to 12 days with a bit of a land trip with it.  Last year we had three SS cruises, two booked through SS the other through this agent.  This policy works well for us.

 

I do not think you are going to come across many passengers who come for the included drinks as those people would generally not want the entertainment offered on SS