Unpopular Opinion: I'm excited about the changes to Plus and Premier

[cruising.mark.uk]

3 minutes ago, JG&Lcruisingnewbies said:

my holiday already paid for in full will cost more than when I booked. Ive put in a complaint to Princess & await a response.

I'm not a lawyer, but for me the crux of it is that they are not charging anyone more for the basics of a cruise - everyone will continue to get a cabin, plentiful free food and water and access to multiple other amenities and facilities.  So, when people argue that their cruise will cost more than when they booked, I sense that, if that is the case, it is because they have chosen to make it the case.  Any additional expenditure resulting from these changes is discretionary, not compulsory.  It will remain possible to have a fantastic cruise and eat and drink as much as you want, see all the entertainment, visit all the ports etc etc without incurring any additional charge as a result of the change.

 

And, in my opinion the same test also applies to whether they should have communicated this better.  If they change something significant like the ship or the itinerary, then I don't think there is any doubt that they need to communicate with all passengers.  But, I think the picture is a lot less clear when changes mean that discretionary spend might rise.  I know many book cruises two years in advance.  So, where does one draw the line of communication - should they send emails every time the price of a drink goes up by 50c, or only when the price of an inch of gold goes up by $5 or only when the cost of a specialist restaurant goes up by $20 or only when a couples massage increases in price by $100.  All these - and many more - are discretionary.  All are more than likely to increase in price between the time a cruise is booked and the time it is sailed.  When passengers become aware that the prices of such discretionary items have risen, they can choose whether or not they purchase them (as we probably do every month at the moment when we go grocery shopping or for a meal out or to a sporting or social event).  What could / should a cruise line communicate to its passengers and what should it not?

[cruising.mark.uk]

6 minutes ago, Jim_Roberts said:

In English Law, it's important to distinguish between what's a civil matter and what's a criminal matter.  Princess have changed the terms of the contract with a large number of their customers without consultation or offer of compensation.  Now, let's suppose I choose to eat in Alfredo's every day - as was included in the fare I paid.  I could go to my credit card company and ask for a refund of the charge.  If they refused, I could claim it back through the County Court.  In their defence, Princess could claim that the original contract allowed them to change it unilaterally but that defence would be rejected under the "Unfair Contract Terms" legislation.  That is civil law - and what's confusing our contract attorney.   Now, the regulator CLIA UK, will need to look into the fact that thousands of people have had their contracts altered unilaterally with Princess gaining and the customers losing.  This is a scam and a criminal offence.  Either CLIA UK or the Crown Prosecution Service could start criminal proceedings against Princess and if they are found guilty, the fine could be many millions of pounds and possibly they would be banned from offering cruises starting from, or calling in, the UK.

Thank you.  This is a really clear explanation.  

 

But it takes me back to my earlier comment (where someone thought I was mocking you, but I was not).  I have never seen in my contract / invoice / conditions of travel etc any mention of being able to eat for free in a specific restaurant / dining venue.  Unless that is in there specifically it seems to me as a non-lawyer that it would be difficult to counter the argument that the contract with Princess was that they would feed you for free and that is what they have done.  And I guess the reasons you've explained are the reasons why they don't make specific promises in their 'contracts' with passengers - setting aside this discussion over prices, what happens if you feel you've paid to eat in Alfredos every day and when you go on your cruise it is closed for the duration because they haven't got the staff to run it or there's major equipment failure or similar?

 

 

[MissP22]

17 minutes ago, kywildcatfanone said:

I mentioned this earlier, but we went on our first Celebrity cruise last year when ships were still sailing at 50% or so capacity.  We had their AI package because overall it was reasonably inexpensive at the time.

 

I guess that review about Princess wasn't acceptable after all. 

[JG&Lcruisingnewbies]

4 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

So, where does one draw the line of communication - should they send emails every time the price of a drink goes up by 50c, or only when the price of an inch of gold goes up by $5 or only when the cost of a specialist restaurant goes up by $20 or only when a couples massage increases in price by $100.  All these - and many more - are discretionary.

I understand what you are saying. I can choose to not get room service, not use Ocean now and not use casual dining options.

 

however these are all items that were free at the point of booking and items I would take advantage of. Cost wasn’t a consideration because there wasn’t one

 

Personally I think there is a big difference between increasing the price of items you have listed such as massage, and drinks, and reducing the number of free amenities.

 

I would have hoped that Princess would have saved the new package for new bookings and not added charges to current bookings. And because the number of free amenities is less than when I booked, that feels like a fair time to expect communication & notice.

 

 

[cruising.mark.uk]

5 minutes ago, JG&Lcruisingnewbies said:

however these are all items that were free at the point of booking and items I would take advantage of. Cost wasn’t a consideration because there wasn’t one

 

 

I hear what you are saying (although I don't agree!).  Best of luck with your complaint.  I hope it is resolved to your satisfaction.  Even if it is not, I hope you end up having a fantastic cruise anyway.

[New2cruise2022]

1 hour ago, Jim_Roberts said:

And I'm a retired lecturer in English Law and boy are they in trouble.

First, you know any ruling on this matter — assuming any action has been initiated — is 2+ years away from the first disposition. Then appeals. So, any prognostication on a final ruling is probably 5 years away. Also, add in the wrinkle that you are operating your business at sea and there the applied laws that operate will be contested. 
 

But plainly, there isn’t a crooked offering here. It’s just bad form to call them “crooks” over the pizza that you aren’t going to get included in your fare. It frankly is a petty thing to get worked up and litigious over. It is so first-world problem that you sound like someone that bought a Ferrari and then sued the dealership because they didn’t put tire shine on your wheels when you brought it in for your free oil change. 
 

I am not versed in English law as you are, but if these are the things you get worked up over in the UK, there may be an even more egregiously flawed legal system than the one we have here in the US. 

[New2cruise2022]

48 minutes ago, Jim_Roberts said:

In English Law, it's important to distinguish between what's a civil matter and what's a criminal matter.  Princess have changed the terms of the contract with a large number of their customers without consultation or offer of compensation.  Now, let's suppose I choose to eat in Alfredo's every day - as was included in the fare I paid.  I could go to my credit card company and ask for a refund of the charge.  If they refused, I could claim it back through the County Court.  In their defence, Princess could claim that the original contract allowed them to change it unilaterally but that defence would be rejected under the "Unfair Contract Terms" legislation.  That is civil law - and what's confusing our contract attorney.   Now, the regulator CLIA UK, will need to look into the fact that thousands of people have had their contracts altered unilaterally with Princess gaining and the customers losing.  This is a scam and a criminal offence.  Either CLIA UK or the Crown Prosecution Service could start criminal proceedings against Princess and if they are found guilty, the fine could be many millions of pounds and possibly they would be banned from offering cruises starting from, or calling in, the UK.

If everything breaks your way in the case and the Crown intervenes to get justice for Jim’s Free Pizza case, what is the remedy? At the end of the day, your civil suit wastes time and resources for a remedy that likely looks like $50 OBC or FCC. The offense is so small that a slap-on-the-wrist give back is necessarily small to be equal in value. 

[JG&Lcruisingnewbies]

6 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

I hear what you are saying (although I don't agree!).  Best of luck with your complaint.  I hope it is resolved to your satisfaction.  Even if it is not, I hope you end up having a fantastic cruise anyway.

Thank you!

 

No worries, I’ll makes sure we’ll all have a fantastic cruise. No way would I let something like this get in the way. My complaint shall remain shoreside & the cruise will be fun 😃

 

[villauk]

2 minutes ago, JG&Lcruisingnewbies said:

Thank you!

 

No worries, I’ll makes sure we’ll all have a fantastic cruise. No way would I let something like this get in the way. My complaint shall remain shoreside & the cruise will be fun 😃

 

I’ve still not received anything from Princess about the changes, yet I have received an email about ‘showtime’ - third this week and still nothing about what they have removed from my cruise experience. Have you had anything?

[JG&Lcruisingnewbies]

Just now, villauk said:

I’ve still not received anything from Princess about the changes, yet I have received an email about ‘showtime’ - third this week and still nothing about what they have removed from my cruise experience. Have you had anything?

No, nothing.

 

I think many people on board ships are only finding out through a letter in the cabin.

[voljeep]

15 minutes ago, JG&Lcruisingnewbies said:

No, nothing.

 

I think many people on board ships are only finding out through a letter in the cabin.

our final payment is in about 2 weeks.  we've gotten zilch, nada about the changes either thru Princess or our Princess CVP.  we are booked under PLUS50. we will pay the 14.99 user App charge for one phone

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Jim_Roberts said:

In English Law, it's important to distinguish between what's a civil matter and what's a criminal matter.  Princess have changed the terms of the contract with a large number of their customers without consultation or offer of compensation.  Now, let's suppose I choose to eat in Alfredo's every day - as was included in the fare I paid.  I could go to my credit card company and ask for a refund of the charge.  If they refused, I could claim it back through the County Court.  In their defence, Princess could claim that the original contract allowed them to change it unilaterally but that defence would be rejected under the "Unfair Contract Terms" legislation.  That is civil law - and what's confusing our contract attorney.   Now, the regulator CLIA UK, will need to look into the fact that thousands of people have had their contracts altered unilaterally with Princess gaining and the customers losing.  This is a scam and a criminal offence.  Either CLIA UK or the Crown Prosecution Service could start criminal proceedings against Princess and if they are found guilty, the fine could be many millions of pounds and possibly they would be banned from offering cruises starting from, or calling in, the UK.

If you contest the credit card charge, I wouldn't be surprised if Princess  banned you for life.

 

Cruise lines maintain herds of attorneys on staff and I imagine they blessed the changes.

Edited August 5, 2023 by BlerkOne

[New2cruise2022]

3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

If you contest the credit card charge, I wouldn't be surprised if Princess  banned you for life.

 

Cruise lines maintain herds of attorneys on staff and I imagine they blessed the changes.

Exactly. Princess can’t change from 2-ply toilet paper to 1-ply without a lawyer giving them the thumbs up. 

[kickbackcruisers]

On 8/3/2023 at 9:25 AM, rosevew said:

Only for productions shows and they don't seem to have many of those.

We were just on the Caribbean Princess & the reserved seats for the production show were on the left side, deck 7, not even center or staggered around as we saw on the Royal in March. Staff told us corporate came on & this was their design. Never did fill the reserved seats & were released about 10 minutes before show time to anyone. Definitely were not best seats in the house.

[kickbackcruisers]

On 8/3/2023 at 11:56 AM, PMGS247 said:

 

Yep Vines and Ocean Terrace. I'm with you, of all the royal class ships it's probably the biggest downgrade on the Sky but technically those are options.  I do like sushi so it's fine for me.

 

As for those ships, none of them have an Alfredo's or Gigi's, so nothing is lost in that regard. 

 

Caribbean has vines, planks, and steamers. This is actually a big win for my upcoming Halloween cruise on the CB.  DW loves vines and charcuterie boards, and we were going to pay for a meal at planks anyway.

 

Coral you're right...literally nothing.  Same on the Island.  Diamond has Kai Sushi.

 

Some ships definitely doing better or worse than others. Not surprising.

 

Edit: I believe along with this change Vines will go back to serving food everywhere.

We were just on the Caribbean for 14 days, ate at Marketplace several evenings, there was never anything at Planks or Streamers. Usually one side closed & many crew eating in the back area.

[HBDave]

I'm sure this has all been said, but I just wanted to throw in my two cents.

 

We've been a loyal Celebrity Cruises Fan for the last 20 years. Our last Princess Cruise was on the Sea Princess 20 years ago. We're looking forward to our 25 Day Northen Europe and Transatlantic cruise in September onboard the Regal Princess. 

 

My biggest complaint is that they provide the same number of included meals (2) for the alternative dinning. It does not matter if it's a 4 day cruise or 25 days. I think they should have structured it to be x number of days based on cruise length. 

 

Also, the cruise we're on is simply a back to back that Princess sells as a single sailing to ensure you have the same cabin. It was also being sold as two separate cruises (10 day and 15 day). I could have purchased them separately and gotten double the benefits. I don't think the overall cost would have been much different. 

 

I think the fair approach would have been to delay the roll out based on the maximum number of days before final payments were due. I think some of the longer cruises are 120 days. This would have meant they would have announced the purposed changes to be implemented in 120 days. This way those who had already made their final payment would not be impacted. and those who had a booked reservation with a pending final payment could decide to cancel their cruise if they chose to. 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by HBDave

[New2cruise2022]

9 minutes ago, HBDave said:

I'm sure this has all been said, but I justed wanted to throw in my two cents.

 

We've been a loyal Celebrity Cruises Fan for the last 20 years. Are last Princess Cruise was on the Sea Princess 20 years ago. We're looking forward to our 25 Day Northen Europe and Transatlantic cruise in September.

 

My biggest complaint is that they provide the same number of included meals (2) for the alternative dinning. It does not matter if it's a 4 day cruise or 25 days. I think they should have structured it to be x number of days based on cruise length. 

 

Also, the cruise we're on is simply a back to back that Princess sells as a single sailing to ensure you have the same cabin. It was also being sold as two separate cruises (10 day and 15 day). I could have purchased them separately and gotten double the benefits. I don't think the overall cost would have been much different. 

 

I think the fair approach would have been to delayed the roll out based on the maximum number of days before final payments were due. i 

 

On the B2B, I believe that you can get another 2 specialty for the second leg. I don’t know that it gives you everything you want, but it is something. 

[jangor]

On 8/3/2023 at 3:49 PM, kywildcatfanone said:

I agree with this as one of those they would like to get rid of.  We take 2 cruises a year, but rarely spend more than $2500-3000 in total for both.  We book inside cabins most of the time, do not buy packages, or go to speciality dining anymore, and bring our own soft drinks and water on the ship at embarkation and ports.  And we usually have enough OBC to cover tips and wifi. 

They would love to give my black medallion up for a blue one of someone who is on a first cruise, and is paying for the convenience of everything they offer.  They would virtually double their money. 

 

They are certainly trying to push me out, and I do have one foot out the door, but I'm not gone yet.  

I agree with most of your post.  Although, we do get a larger cabin, that is our choice.  We bring one bottle of wine each.  We use OBC, pay the crew appreciation fee and get discounted wi-fi as Elites and rarely spend beyond our budget, except for special excursions that appeal to us.  We have enjoyed Alfredo's which is more than just pizza.  However, our next cruise is on the Emerald, so no Alfredo's and will definitely not pay for it on future cruises.  We have done specialty dining on previous cruises, so no need to go again.  MDR is excellent.  On our last cruise (Caribbean Princess), the reserved section was mostly empty and five minutes before showtime, they sent the SRO cruisers to that section. We don't need special desserts and I can practice TaiChi in my cabin, so no interest in fitness classes.   My fear is that they will slowly charge or increase charges for things we do enjoy: bingo, trivia, use of the gym or who knows what!

[Jim_Roberts]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

If you contest the credit card charge, I wouldn't be surprised if Princess  banned you for life.

 

Cruise lines maintain herds of attorneys on staff and I imagine they blessed the changes.

I've already banned Princess for life.  When they try to woo us all back with a $100 voucher, I won't be using it.  Taking revenge on someone using the legal system would not be a good idea.

[Ken the cruiser]

48 minutes ago, HBDave said:

I'm sure this has all been said, but I just wanted to throw in my two cents.

 

We've been a loyal Celebrity Cruises Fan for the last 20 years. Our last Princess Cruise was on the Sea Princess 20 years ago. We're looking forward to our 25 Day Northen Europe and Transatlantic cruise in September onboard the Regal Princess. 

 

My biggest complaint is that they provide the same number of included meals (2) for the alternative dinning. It does not matter if it's a 4 day cruise or 25 days. I think they should have structured it to be x number of days based on cruise length. 

 

Also, the cruise we're on is simply a back to back that Princess sells as a single sailing to ensure you have the same cabin. It was also being sold as two separate cruises (10 day and 15 day). I could have purchased them separately and gotten double the benefits. I don't think the overall cost would have been much different. 

 

I think the fair approach would have been to delay the roll out based on the maximum number of days before final payments were due. I think some of the longer cruises are 120 days. This would have meant they would have announced the purposed changes to be implemented in 120 days. This way those who had already made their final payment would not be impacted. and those who had a booked reservation with a pending final payment could decide to cancel their cruise if they chose to. 

 

I could be wrong, but I believe your B2B, even though booked under one number, will be treated onboard as two separate cruises and you will get your 2 alternative meals associated with the Plus Package on each leg just like you will get Captain Circle cruise credit for 2 cruises rather than for just 1 combined cruise.

[HBDave]

19 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

I could be wrong, but I believe your B2B, even though booked under one number, will be treated onboard as two separate cruises and you will get your 2 alternative meals associated with the Plus Package on each leg just like you will get Captain Circle cruise credit for 2 cruises rather than for just 1 combined cruise.

Thanks, I hope so and guess we'll find out soon enough. 🙂

 

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Jim_Roberts said:

I've already banned Princess for life.  When they try to woo us all back with a $100 voucher, I won't be using it.  Taking revenge on someone using the legal system would not be a good idea.

Nobody is irreplaceable. Hope you find a cruise line you like.

[mikjr]

On 8/3/2023 at 9:14 AM, drwbrt said:

I'm surprised at some of these comments.  My cruise I've booked on Princess, with Premier, is CHEAPER than what I could get on NCL, CCL, or RCL with a drink package, gratuities and wifi. The value is there.  I think this only helps CCL.  Passengers that want more included casual dining will migrate to something like Carnival.  I think that plays to Princess' advantage.  Carnival (parent) is getting very strategic about segmenting their customers and directing them to the cruise line that fits the customers view of value.

The value is there, only for those who drink alcohol.  For those of us who don't drink (health issues, AA, etc), those packages are worthless, and have lessened our experience AND value! 

[Z0nker]

On 8/3/2023 at 12:06 PM, drwbrt said:

Plus/Premier is the reason that we are trying Princess for the first time.  I use my drink package; not just on alcohol.  Pellegrino at meals, coffees in the morning and afternoon, occasionally a soda, etc.  The drink offer and gratuity inclusion makes it worth it for me.  Having this included is the reason we are on Princess and not Carnival, NCL, or RCL.

Same here. The Plus package, even at $60/day/pax is a great deal. $15 of that is for gratuities you have to pay anyway. And vacation is so much more enjoyable when you don’t have to worry about every monetary transaction. Looking forward to the Starlink internet. 

[Broadside]

11 hours ago, New2cruise2022 said:

I’m a contract attorney — you have no sea leg to stand on with your assertion.  

 

As such, one has no legal standing in the United Kingdom