EU Citizenship

[sanger727]

54 minutes ago, Smitheroo said:

Yes, I realize what you are saying. My passport is issued by Ireland, as a member of the EU.   I dont have the actual passport *yet* as they are being real pains in the *** about a certain requirement but I think it will be approved soon. 

 

I didnt know about the health card, but it makes sense.  I dont expect to use this feature of  EU citizenship, mainly because I am unsure of how it works (which is obvious from this thread lol)   Are you an Irish resident? Because the US citizen with dual citizenship would not necessarily have a residency in an EU country and therefore would not have a Health Card. I'm wondering if its something that can be prioritized if needed. For example, in the US if someone ends up in a hospital in an acute care situation if they dont have health insurance the social workers in that hospital would get the process for determining eligibility for public healthcare (income dependent, i.e. known as MediCAID, or something similar depending on which state you live in) going immediately.  Since its income dependent, not everyone qualifies.

isn’t this a bit like applying for insurance after you are admitted to a hospital? The health care coverage isn’t a birth right of being a citizen. It’s paid for by taxes that you pay when you live and work there. Not sure why you would expect to get a ‘benefit’ that you haven’t contributed to. 
 

while most people in the US take social security as a guaranteed income, that is also a paid benefit. I am in a job where I am exempt from contributing to social security. That also means I don’t get it. While I’m aware of Bernie sanders platform; at the end of the day; any ‘benefit’ provided by the government is ultimately paid by the residents via taxes.

Edited August 25, 2023 by sanger727

[Smitheroo]

51 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

isn’t this a bit like applying for insurance after you are admitted to a hospital? The health care coverage isn’t a birth right of being a citizen. It’s paid for by taxes that you pay when you live and work there. Not sure why you would expect to get a ‘benefit’ that you haven’t contributed to. 
 

while most people in the US take social security as a guaranteed income, that is also a paid benefit. I am in a job where I am exempt from contributing to social security. That also means I don’t get it. While I’m aware of Bernie sanders platform; at the end of the day; any ‘benefit’ provided by the government is ultimately paid by the residents via taxes.

I was just quoting what I've seen available to the public..  I will find it and post it.  If you are no longer working and have retirement income from the U.S.  and move to an EU country (perhaps your son or daughter lives there)  with EU citizenship are you saying that person would not be entitled to health care coverage? Never worked in the EU country so never contributed.  Either you are wrong or the information given to the public interested in dual citizenship is wrong.   I was asking for clarification, did not believe one way or another as I said I had no intention of using it. (EU Citizenship) except maybe to allow myself to visit EU countries without going through all the visa requirements if I should become a world traveler. And at my age, I doubt that is going to happen.  I just thought it was a cool thing to do because I could.  (It wasnt cheap either)

 

You must be an American (as I am) and not realize there are different health care systems around the world. Yes, social security is paid into. If you are exempt from paying into it then you must have an alternative. i.e. my husband worked in a position covered by the Maine Retirement system so he didnt pay social security. HIs retirement income is from the MSRS (Maine State Retirement System) and a small amount of Social Security when he worked in the private sector when he was young. Federal govt employees are exempt from Social Security (they have an alternative plan) as are railroad employees I believe. If you are employed (and not being paid "under the table")  no one in the US is exempt from some kind of forced deductions for retirement from their income.  In order to be covered by Medicare you have to work a certain amount of quarters (and by doing so you paid into it because these deductions are not voluntary)  Fed govt employees are exempt also. People who work for an exempt employer has to then work the required number of quarters after they retire from the exempt job if they want to be covered by Medicare (I think its 10 yrs I once worked with a woman doing that)   Even self employed people are supposed to pay social security.  My father, US Born, moved to England with cancer (a pre-existing condition) and received free treatment in England. He never paid anything into the system.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Smitheroo

[Essiesmom]

I do not believe federal employees are exempt from social security.  On the old days, there was CSRS, the Civil Service Retirement System.  Those hired while that system was in existence did not pay into SS.  I believe the program was changed in about 1986 and replaced with FERS, the Federal Employees Retirement System.  Those already in CSRS could continue in it, or participate in a combined program.  New hires were FERS only.  I’m not sure if CSRS was contributory, but with FERS the govt paid a certain amount and would match what the employee chose to contribute up to a certain percent.  No longer sure of the details, as I retired from Civil Service in 2006.  FERS employees all paid social security.  I’m sure there are federal govt employees on these boards who have a better ( or current experience) memory than mine.  EM

[sanger727]

7 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

I do not believe federal employees are exempt from social security.  On the old days, there was CSRS, the Civil Service Retirement System.  Those hired while that system was in existence did not pay into SS.  I believe the program was changed in about 1986 and replaced with FERS, the Federal Employees Retirement System.  Those already in CSRS could continue in it, or participate in a combined program.  New hires were FERS only.  I’m not sure if CSRS was contributory, but with FERS the govt paid a certain amount and would match what the employee chose to contribute up to a certain percent.  No longer sure of the details, as I retired from Civil Service in 2006.  FERS employees all paid social security.  I’m sure there are federal govt employees on these boards who have a better ( or current experience) memory than mine.  EM

the only people exempt from social security are people who have a government sponsored pension program. I work for city government so have one. I think most federal employees do not have pensions anymore so would still use social security.

[sanger727]

1 hour ago, Smitheroo said:

I was just quoting what I've seen available to the public..  I will find it and post it.  If you are no longer working and have retirement income from the U.S.  and move to an EU country (perhaps your son or daughter lives there)  with EU citizenship are you saying that person would not be entitled to health care coverage? Never worked in the EU country so never contributed.  Either you are wrong or the information given to the public interested in dual citizenship is wrong.   I was asking for clarification, did not believe one way or another as I said I had no intention of using it. (EU Citizenship) except maybe to allow myself to visit EU countries without going through all the visa requirements if I should become a world traveler. And at my age, I doubt that is going to happen.  I just thought it was a cool thing to do because I could.  (It wasnt cheap either)

 

Your posts came off as entitled. Maybe that’s not what was meant. But you are essentially confirming that you pursued EU citizenship just so you can say you are one; but looking for ‘benefits’. The main one you seem interested in is health care and you were really argumentative with people who told you that it wasn’t that easy. Instead you insisted that since Bernie Sanders claims coverage was free, you were entitled to some sort of free treatment. Completely disregarding that someone is paying for that and the people who live over there pay quite a lot in taxes for the benefit.

[LauraAnneC]

2 hours ago, Smitheroo said:

I was just quoting what I've seen available to the public..  I will find it and post it.  If you are no longer working and have retirement income from the U.S.  and move to an EU country (perhaps your son or daughter lives there)  with EU citizenship are you saying that person would not be entitled to health care coverage? Never worked in the EU country so never contributed.  Either you are wrong or the information given to the public interested in dual citizenship is wrong.   I was asking for clarification, did not believe one way or another as I said I had no intention of using it. (EU Citizenship) except maybe to allow myself to visit EU countries without going through all the visa requirements if I should become a world traveler. And at my age, I doubt that is going to happen.  I just thought it was a cool thing to do because I could.  (It wasnt cheap either)

 

You must be an American (as I am) and not realize there are different health care systems around the world. Yes, social security is paid into. If you are exempt from paying into it then you must have an alternative. i.e. my husband worked in a position covered by the Maine Retirement system so he didnt pay social security. HIs retirement income is from the MSRS (Maine State Retirement System) and a small amount of Social Security when he worked in the private sector when he was young. Federal govt employees are exempt from Social Security (they have an alternative plan) as are railroad employees I believe. If you are employed (and not being paid "under the table")  no one in the US is exempt from some kind of forced deductions for retirement from their income.  In order to be covered by Medicare you have to work a certain amount of quarters (and by doing so you paid into it because these deductions are not voluntary)  Fed govt employees are exempt also. People who work for an exempt employer has to then work the required number of quarters after they retire from the exempt job if they want to be covered by Medicare (I think its 10 yrs I once worked with a woman doing that)   Even self employed people are supposed to pay social security.  My father, US Born, moved to England with cancer (a pre-existing condition) and received free treatment in England. He never paid anything into the system.

Your Irish passport gets you the right to travel freely within the rest of Europe and also the UK even though they are no longer in Europe. You can live in any European country and apply for social security in any country - whether you would meet their requirements is another story but legally you have that right. But that’s about it.
As far as I know, as an Irish citizen, there are no other advantages to having an Irish passport over one from another country.  

But don’t expect to be able to have free health care. If you’re in Ireland and you turn up in the ER you’ll have a very, very long wait, same as the rest of the population. I know it’s like that in the UK. Not sure about the rest of Europe.  Without the European Medical Card, you won’t get any ‘free’ accident treatment and the only way to get the card in Ireland is to have a social security number. Which you wouldn’t qualify for.

Get travel insurance. Even if all of the above points were moot, you still need travel insurance that includes repatriation. So, so important. Don’t travel without it. 
 

Having said all that, Bon Voyage! 😉

[Smitheroo]

1 hour ago, sanger727 said:

the only people exempt from social security are people who have a government sponsored pension program. I work for city government so have one. I think most federal employees do not have pensions anymore so would still use social security.

I dont think the military has social security.  I dont know that for sure.  You made it sound like you dont pay into Social Security so you dont get it. Perhaps I misconstrued that to mean that you dont have any pension plan So I said that every US legal worker must have Social Security or a *substitute plan*.  I was discussing Europe not the U.S. And I was discussing health care, not pensions.  Other countries have different ways of operating. And it is a fact that my father was treated for cancer in England,AT NO COST TO HIM,  never worked there so never paid taxes. How do you explain that?  It's true he  was a resident but your argument is that citizens of those countries pay taxes for health care and therefore are entitled to that benefit.  and apparently no one else is.  Wrong. (in my father's case, I still dont know about what I was asking about EU citizenship)

Edited August 25, 2023 by Smitheroo

[Smitheroo]

13 minutes ago, LauraAnneC said:

Your Irish passport gets you the right to travel freely within the rest of Europe and also the UK even though they are no longer in Europe. You can live in any European country and apply for social security in any country - whether you would meet their requirements is another story but legally you have that right. But that’s about it.
As far as I know, as an Irish citizen, there are no other advantages to having an Irish passport over one from another country.  

But don’t expect to be able to have free health care. If you’re in Ireland and you turn up in the ER you’ll have a very, very long wait, same as the rest of the population. I know it’s like that in the UK. Not sure about the rest of Europe.  Without the European Medical Card, you won’t get any ‘free’ accident treatment and the only way to get the card in Ireland is to have a social security number. Which you wouldn’t qualify for.

Get travel insurance. Even if all of the above points were moot, you still need travel insurance that includes repatriation. So, so important. Don’t travel without it. 
 

Having said all that, Bon Voyage! 😉

How many times did I say that I was only interested in this topic, that I didnt intend to rely upon it for healthcare? Actually my initial question was about  benefits I wasnt aware of (listed over and over again on the internet)  Someone else on here thinks it is wrong to ask about benefits if you are not a tax paying citizen. My initial question was better suited for someone who has dual citizenship, with one of the citizenships being from outside the EU.   I dont believe my EU Passport has any advantage in the UK as they are longer part of the EU.  And many were shocked when they found out that they no longer had the same priveleges to travel throughout the EU ( A woman residing in England right now told me that, she said they were told a bunch of lies but I'm going to leave it at that because its getting into politics)  As I said to the person who attacked my motives I am geniuinely interested in how the world works. (not just the US, we cerrtainly dont have all the answers) That wasnt the intent of my original question but it morphed into that discussion.   I checked earlier online  and I dd see mention of the "health card" referred to by you and others. I had not noticed that before, mainly because I didnt intent to try to access health care in Europe. Just curious.

[LauraAnneC]

11 hours ago, Smitheroo said:

That is good to know!  You dont think the process could be done quickly in the case of emergency health care?  I know that care for an  *accident* is provided for all.   One of our senators who was recently injured in an automobile accident in Spain was treated free of cost (so he said, that's all I can go by)   I have also read that about accident care.  As you age, regular health care becomes as important, or even more important, than accident care.

 

I am NOT intending to rely on this feature, I know purchasing travel insurance would be a lot easier.  However, in all the policies I looked at the coverage only applies for trips of a certain length (ie. 45 days) Maybe in cases where your trip will be longer you should look at an annual plan? Not sure if that limits the length or trips or not. 

@Smitheroothis post reads to me like you won’t be buying travel insurance. Maybe I’m mistaken and there’s a difference in language from one side of the pond to the other.  Which is why I reiterated the point about not travelling without it. Mea culpa!

[Smitheroo]

Did a quick internet search. Endless webites on the advantages of having EU citizenship.  I didnt read them all. I looked at one "13 Must-Know Benefits of Becoming an EU Citizen".  I am going to briefly summarize the points. I made a few comments in (   )

 

1. It allows you to travel through out the EU countries without a visa and without time restrictions. Ditto for 

    living and working. *Some countries have limitations regarding your ability to be financially self sustaining

    ( I would expect that they/some would not want you to be a burden on the society)

 

2.  Free or reduced education, no student visa required. (I'm sure you would still need to meet the\  

     entrance requirements)

 

3. Universa Health Care across the EU. This applies whether you need medical services traveling,

      studying, etc.  * You do need the health information card mentioned by some and I'm guessing to get

      that you need a residence.

 

4.  There are  "no double taxation" agreements between many countries to prevent double taxation.

      Dual citizens who live in the US will not need to pay taxes to the EU *unless they earn the money

      tthere. (makes sense)

 

5. Work in any EU country (assuming you meet the employer's requirements of course) This allows

     employers to avoid dealing with the complex permit/ work visa process

 

6.   Consular protection outside the EU  (you can access embassies using your EU passport or US                passport (or your native passport)

 

7. Own property

 

8. You can vote in the country you reside in ( meeting other requirements i

I'm sure but birth nationality isnt a factor, there are considerations to be aware of when voting in another

country.) You can run for elected positions and work in a public service position (again, meeting the other requirements of the position)

 

I dont intend to do any of the above except travel and even that is unlikely. I'm not looking for free benefits. I was curious.

 

I Apologize that my post came out jumbled.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Smitheroo
hard to read jumbled post, so I apologized

[Sea42]

I'm curious how any of this is cruise related🤔

[Smitheroo]

18 minutes ago, LauraAnneC said:

@Smitheroothis post reads to me like you won’t be buying travel insurance. Maybe I’m mistaken and there’s a difference in language from one side of the pond to the other.  Which is why I reiterated the point about not travelling without it. Mea culpa!

Of course I will buy travel insurance. I think I stated that, or I might have said I wasnt going to rely on my EU citizenship which is basically saying the same thing.  I have some coverage through my medicare supplement plan but it has a lifetime limit s and I'm not sure how comprehensive it is so I do plan to buy travel insurance and have been researching the various companies.

 

I really am curious and did not mean to come across as "entitled" (I realize you didnt  write that)  

[Smitheroo]

3 minutes ago, Sea42 said:

I'm curious how any of this is cruise related🤔

Its not really.  I asked an initial question if there was anyone who had dual citizenship with the EU and if it had been helpful to them (paraphrased)  And then it morphed into something bigger.  If you are not interested, all you have to do is scroll past.  Unless you are a moderator.  I dont think the discussion was unhelpful even if it didnt apply to cruising as it morphed. If you jumped in the middle of it you might get the impression it was not ever related to crusing.

[Smitheroo]

4 minutes ago, Smitheroo said:

Its not really.  I asked an initial question if there was anyone who had dual citizenship with the EU and if it had been helpful to them (paraphrased)  And then it morphed into something bigger.  If you are not interested, all you have to do is scroll past.  Unless you are a moderator.  I dont think the discussion was unhelpful even if it didnt apply to cruising as it morphed. If you jumped in the middle of it you might get the impression it was not ever related to crusing.

 

[Essiesmom]

50 minutes ago, Smitheroo said:

I dont think the military has social security.  I dont know that for sure.  You made it sound like you dont pay into Social Security so you dont get it. Perhaps I misconstrued that to mean that you dont have any pension plan So I said that every US legal worker must have Social Security or a *substitute plan*.  I was discussing Europe not the U.S. And I was discussing health care, not pensions.  Other countries have different ways of operating. And it is a fact that my father was treated for cancer in England,AT NO COST TO HIM,  never worked there so never paid taxes. How do you explain that?  It's true he  was a resident but your argument is that citizens of those countries pay taxes for health care and therefore are entitled to that benefit.  and apparently no one else is.  Wrong. (in my father's case, I still dont know about what I was asking about EU citizenship)

Oh my, oh my are you uninformed.  Every member of the US military pays social security.  I know because I was one for 26.5 years, and a civil servant after that.  EM

[Smitheroo]

12 hours ago, Smitheroo said:

I have dual citizenhip (EU and my native US).  I am aware of the benefits of having EU Citizenship that are on the various websites but I am wondering if any one has had other experiences, good or bad.  Do to my age and circumstances,  I think the only benefit I would ever be able to use is health care access if I should become sick in an EU country.  And I dont know much about that so not relying on that benefit.   I forgot to add that I also have an EU Passport.

****** I see where my original question seemed like I intended to access health care.   That is not true*****

[Smitheroo]

2 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

I do not believe federal employees are exempt from social security.  On the old days, there was CSRS, the Civil Service Retirement System.  Those hired while that system was in existence did not pay into SS.  I believe the program was changed in about 1986 and replaced with FERS, the Federal Employees Retirement System.  Those already in CSRS could continue in it, or participate in a combined program.  New hires were FERS only.  I’m not sure if CSRS was contributory, but with FERS the govt paid a certain amount and would match what the employee chose to contribute up to a certain percent.  No longer sure of the details, as I retired from Civil Service in 2006.  FERS employees all paid social security.  I’m sure there are federal govt employees on these boards who have a better ( or current experience) memory than mine.  EM

Ok, I understand better now about federal employees.   I know Im right about some government, i.e. states because that was my husband's situation. He gets very little in social security payments, most of his retirement is from the program run by the state of Maine even though he was not a state employee, but an employee of the city of Portland.   There's is also a difference with health insurance for the federal govt. I dont believe they take part in the Medicare system. 

[Smitheroo]

16 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

Oh my, oh my are you uninformed.  Every member of the US military pays social security.  I know because I was one for 26.5 years, and a civil servant after that.  EM

Ok, I apologize.   But really, is it necessary to exclaim how uniformed I am?  I was wrong and I accept your explanation.  The conversation went off on a tangent because I was provoked by someone questioning my motives.  I shouldnt have mentioned things I wasnt 100% sure of and wouldnt have if I didnt feel I needed to defend myself to this other person.  

 

Reading over my comment about the military I notice I did say that I was not really sure. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Smitheroo
to provide clarification