Q&A with President Laura Hodges Bethge

[DaKahuna]

12 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

If we didn't complain, we'd have vaping, no pillow chocolates at all, no free cookies in the cafe, the dinner buffet would be only 7 items, and the complimentary prime rib and ribeye would have been permanently replaced by the double cheeseburger

 

You forgot the peanut butter and jelly sandiwches.   🙂 

[Cap_D]

My take is the recent criticism is still valid, and the company is now willfully being insincere or worse....

 

There's an inherent problem when despite the public facing website, all the PDF documents, the trade materials, and the app, plus the post sale documents still require a limited access and distributed webinar to ascertain what is included in a cruise that is purchased today but will be taken possibly years from today, and when that webinar still has information shared that doesn't ring true based on what is said, and given first-hand reports and common sense.  

 

They are doing as much as they can get away with, and do not appear focused on a cohesive hospitality experience even at the higher prices being charged.  

 

* * *

And, any financial reporting showing revenue is inherently about the period it reports, not when someone experiences the product years from today or has their sailing canceled so the company can make more in a different market without so much as price protection.

 

* * *

 

I'm the so called target market, never sailed before 2022, have a well behaved child, willing to spend, want a clean beach experience, booked less than 4 weeks from sailing, and thought Retreat was terrific, seemed like company was aiming to provide a solid product with a certain level of quality (not always meeting it, but good effort).... went again last March before Laura was in charge (was worried due to ovc cuts), and then boom.  One report and lame excuse after another, and no end in site.  Have one more cruise booked (pricing fluke and probably will be jinxed), and one future cruise deposit with OBC that could still be used before the change in all included and I'm not sold on the future stewardship of the product.  

 

Worse people I know have gone on Celebrity with my endorsement, and had lesser food and experiences that match the reports on this board and elsewhere.  

 

Meanwhile any positive reports or one offs seems to be exceptions not the norm, and always have an undercurrent of work in progress or stop gap.  Eliminating butlers (they were cut, which means eliminated), making people run around for water, odd cuts of beef, poor quality fish, OVC yo yoing at dinner, cookiegate (give everyone that wants one a hot fresh cookie and make people happy - they all should start hot and fresh at some point, right?), messing with all included and creating a race to the bottom, MDR, etc.... none of it fits into any plan to give people a fantastic experience at higher prices.  And, the excuses..... they are as bad or worse than the cuts.... 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Cap_D

[NutsAboutGolf]

3 minutes ago, Cap_D said:

My take is the recent criticism is still valid, and the company is now willfully being insincere or worse....

 

There's an inherent problem when despite the public facing website, all the PDF documents, the trade materials, and the app, plus the post sale documents still require a limited access and distributed webinar to ascertain what is included in a cruise that is purchased today but will be taken possibly years from today, and when that webinar still has information shared that doesn't ring true based on what is said, and given first-hand reports and common sense.  

 

They are doing as much as they can get away with, and do not appear focused on a cohesive hospitality experience even at the higher prices being charged.  

 

* * *

And, any financial reporting showing revenue is inherently about the period it reports, not when someone experiences the product years from today or has their sailing canceled so the company can make more in a different market without so much as price protection.

 

* * *

 

I'm the so called target market, never sailed before 2022, have a well behaved child, willing to spend, want a clean beach experience, booked less than 4 weeks from sailing, and thought Retreat was terrific, seemed like company was aiming to provide a solid product with a certain level of quality (not always meeting it, but good effort).... went again last March with Laura in charge (was worried due to ovc cuts), and then boom.  One report and lame excuse after another, and no end in site.  Have one more cruise booked (pricing fluke and probably will be jinxed), and one future cruise deposit with OBC that could still be used before the change in all included and I'm not sold on the future stewardship of the product.  

 

Worse people I know have gone on Celebrity with my endorsement, and had lesser food and experiences that match the reports on this board and elsewhere.  

 

Meanwhile any positive reports or one offs seems to be exceptions not the norm, and always have an undercurrent of work in progress or stop gap.  Eliminating butlers (they were cut, which means eliminated), making people run around for water, odd cuts of beef, poor quality fish, OVC yo yoing at dinner, cookiegate (give everyone that wants one a hot fresh cookie and make people happy - they all should start hot and fresh at some point, right?), messing with all included and creating a race to the bottom, MDR, etc.... none of it fits into any plan to give people a fantastic experience at higher prices.  And, the excuses..... they are as bad or worse than the cuts.... 

 

You nailed the product but let's not forget about the service.  Even in 100% positive reviews we often hear something like "Our stateroom attendant was great despite them being responsible for 20 rooms", "MDR service was pretty slow but they were training new staff", "Cafe Al Bacio was so good it was worth the 15min wait in that long line" etc

[zitsky]

41 minutes ago, rmedistro said:

But they can. And they will still fill sailings to capacity.  The small group of dissenters here think they are representing what the rest think. They aren't. There's a poster that has mentioned canopies a dozen times. 90% couldn't care less about canopies. We're the next generation of X. The stuffy over expecting last generation will move on. We're going to divide our cruises between VV and X. No or few kids, and fewer stuffy oldies every x cruise going forward. I've met some great people on X, they are too busy living to waste reading the drive here. I'm joining them, not you. I thought CC would be informational. Nope, just drama.

I love how people complain about “drama” while they’re busy creating it.  🙄

[RichYak]

50 minutes ago, rmedistro said:

There's a poster that has mentioned canopies a dozen times. 90% couldn't care less about canopies.

It's canapes. And it's a big enough issue that one of the curated questions on the webinar was about precisely that subject.

[rmedistro]

1 minute ago, RichYak said:

It's canapes. And it's a big enough issue that one of the curated questions on the webinar was about precisely that subject.

Canapes, canopies = either way, nobody else cares. Hold my beer

[hankandteri]

8 minutes ago, rmedistro said:

Canapes, canopies = either way, nobody else cares. Hold my beer

Somebody needs a hug. 

[bikerunner]

13 minutes ago, RichYak said:

It's canapes. And it's a big enough issue that one of the curated questions on the webinar was about precisely that subject.

what’s funny about the whole thing I can remember so many different threads where canapés are mentioned and many just told the houseman either stop bringing them and or they just left in the room for pickup the next day or at turndown  To me never needed as is simple enough in my walk arounds to pick up something.  I usually tell them please don’t bring them. Just will become fish food overall.  Yes it was a question brought up and I agree a small few might miss them.  But overall most don’t want them.  

[zitsky]

17 minutes ago, rmedistro said:

Canapes, canopies = either way, nobody else cares. Hold my beer

 

I guess because you don't care about it, no one else should???

[flvol77]

5 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

The Traveling Gamblers spoke about it as they spoke to the F&B manager, without a picture, that's about as credible as it gets.  F&B Manger said the reason the free cookies were removed was to reduce Cafe congestion and that it was "bad timing" 

 

I was on the cruise the next week after Cookie Gate - Talked to many crew members, including the FB manager, and they said it was a real thing.   

 

Once again was this just another miscommunication from Corporate to the ship?  Who knows, the crew member who will remain nameless said it was a nightmare, and she showed me the warmer for the cookies that were still there in the Gelateria.

[RichYak]

26 minutes ago, bikerunner said:

Yes it was a question brought up and I agree a small few might miss them.  But overall most don’t want them.

Don't minimize that the question was brought up. This webinar idea began with management and marketing identifying and ranking issues/crises/bad PR that needed to be addressed. The answers were carefully crafted, tweaked, discussed and rehearsed. It was also choreographed with the Zenith Retreat Lounge announcement. Finally, after all that, questions were chosen that best matched all of the above.

 

Everything addressed in today's Q&A was a fire that Celebrity felt they needed to extinguish. Yes, even canapes.

Edited September 27, 2023 by RichYak

[NMTraveller]

7 hours ago, rmedistro said:

They did mention they are evaluating the number of IV cabins for Edge #5 based on feedback.

Hmmm.  The IVs were causing a bunch of cruisers to book other lines.  Why not figure out the percentage that like the IVs and the percentage that want the balconies.  Maybe it is 20% that like the IVs?  Why build a ship full of IVs?  Even Carnival has balconies.

[NMTraveller]

14 minutes ago, RichYak said:

Don't minimize that the question was brought up. This webinar idea began with management and marketing identifying and ranking issues/crises/bad PR that needed to be addressed. The answers were carefully crafted, tweaked, discussed and rehearsed. It was also choreographed with the Zenith Retreat Lounge announcement. Finally, after all that, questions were chosen that best matched all of the above.

 

Everything addressed in today's Q&A was a fire that Celebrity felt they needed to extinguish. Yes, even canapes.

Did they address the elephant in the room?  The food?  Or just breeze right on by with a nonsensical answer?

[zitsky]

4 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

Did they address the elephant in the room?  The food?  Or just breeze right on by with a nonsensical answer?

I quote.  “We asked all the customers and they insisted they wanted lower quality food.”

[NMTraveller]

1 hour ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

You nailed the product but let's not forget about the service.  Even in 100% positive reviews we often hear something like "Our stateroom attendant was great despite them being responsible for 20 rooms", "MDR service was pretty slow but they were training new staff", "Cafe Al Bacio was so good it was worth the 15min wait in that long line" etc

You also hear that "the food was good, but we went to specialty dining because we did not find anything on the menu to our liking... "  How is that positive?  

 

And descriptions of "perfectly adequate"...

Edited September 27, 2023 by NMTraveller

[bnurick]

1 hour ago, Cap_D said:

My take is the recent criticism is still valid, and the company is now willfully being insincere or worse....

 

There's an inherent problem when despite the public facing website, all the PDF documents, the trade materials, and the app, plus the post sale documents still require a limited access and distributed webinar to ascertain what is included in a cruise that is purchased today but will be taken possibly years from today, and when that webinar still has information shared that doesn't ring true based on what is said, and given first-hand reports and common sense.  

 

They are doing as much as they can get away with, and do not appear focused on a cohesive hospitality experience even at the higher prices being charged.  

 

* * *

And, any financial reporting showing revenue is inherently about the period it reports, not when someone experiences the product years from today or has their sailing canceled so the company can make more in a different market without so much as price protection.

 

* * *

 

I'm the so called target market, never sailed before 2022, have a well behaved child, willing to spend, want a clean beach experience, booked less than 4 weeks from sailing, and thought Retreat was terrific, seemed like company was aiming to provide a solid product with a certain level of quality (not always meeting it, but good effort).... went again last March before Laura was in charge (was worried due to ovc cuts), and then boom.  One report and lame excuse after another, and no end in site.  Have one more cruise booked (pricing fluke and probably will be jinxed), and one future cruise deposit with OBC that could still be used before the change in all included and I'm not sold on the future stewardship of the product.  

 

Worse people I know have gone on Celebrity with my endorsement, and had lesser food and experiences that match the reports on this board and elsewhere.  

 

Meanwhile any positive reports or one offs seems to be exceptions not the norm, and always have an undercurrent of work in progress or stop gap.  Eliminating butlers (they were cut, which means eliminated), making people run around for water, odd cuts of beef, poor quality fish, OVC yo yoing at dinner, cookiegate (give everyone that wants one a hot fresh cookie and make people happy - they all should start hot and fresh at some point, right?), messing with all included and creating a race to the bottom, MDR, etc.... none of it fits into any plan to give people a fantastic experience at higher prices.  And, the excuses..... they are as bad or worse than the cuts.... 

 

NAILED IT! 👆

[RichYak]

7 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

Did they address the elephant in the room?  The food?  Or just breeze right on by with a nonsensical answer?

They punted that issue to a future q&a. 

[NutsAboutGolf]

1 hour ago, flvol77 said:

 

I was on the cruise the next week after Cookie Gate - Talked to many crew members, including the FB manager, and they said it was a real thing.   

 

Once again was this just another miscommunication from Corporate to the ship?  Who knows, the crew member who will remain nameless said it was a nightmare, and she showed me the warmer for the cookies that were still there in the Gelateria.

 

Thanks for sharing.  There wasn't a debate about whether cookiegate and the outrage were real, the debate was about what was cookiecake and why was there such outrage.

 

What was CookieGate:  Some who were on the cookiegate sailing incorrectly stated all free cookies were gone as they did not realize they were still in the buffet (reportedly there weren't any chocolate chip flavored ones). On the other end of the spectrum which includes this Q&A, didn't realize X removed them from the cafe coincidently at the same time they implemented the fee cookie. 

 

Why was there such outage:  To oversimplify the outrage, some could care less while others claimed it's another example of nickel and diming that will never end.

 

My opinion about cookiegate:  Since day one, I've been a fan of the fee cookies as long as free ones are still available, and reached out to their social media about trying fee cookies again assuming they leave the free cookies in the cafe.  Received a response something like thank you for your feedback it was passed along

Edited September 27, 2023 by NutsAboutGolf

[D C]

4 hours ago, rmedistro said:

X understands their customers. They also understand customer churn when implementing changes. The newer E class ships are designed to attract new customer segments.  There is a big niche between NCL/RCL type ships and high end ships.

X will continue to run near capacity on E class sailings. I imagine the next class will be similar to E, continuing to expand the upper middle class offerings to 40+ couples that don't want floating amusement water parks.

Honestly, I think that's a huge stretch. 

One need look no further than Bud Light to see how easy it is for a big company to be irreversibly out of touch with their customers. 

 

X is clearly trying to draw a "new crowd" that they arguably don't understand, while hopefully not pissing off their loyal base too too much. Personally, I think they're failing at both. 

[D C]

1 hour ago, flvol77 said:

 

I was on the cruise the next week after Cookie Gate - Talked to many crew members, including the FB manager, and they said it was a real thing.   

 

Once again was this just another miscommunication from Corporate to the ship?  Who knows, the crew member who will remain nameless said it was a nightmare, and she showed me the warmer for the cookies that were still there in the Gelateria.

Wait a second. "warmer"?? 

So their whole 'fresh out of the oven' line was total bulls***t, and they were essentially charging to put a stale cookie in the microwave?   "nostalgia" and all that crap that some corporate lackey dreamt up was the same old cookie, just heated up a bit.   Someone should be fired for that imho. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by D C

[mayleeman]

6 minutes ago, D C said:

X is clearly trying to draw a "new crowd" that they arguably don't understand, while hopefully not pissing off their loyal base too too much. Personally, I think they're failing at both.

 

And some self-identified members of that new crowd have stated they don't care about what the loyal base thinks has gone south in quality. I am always amazed when people here have temerity to weigh in on whether someone else has a right to be disappointed.

[DaKahuna]

56 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

Hmmm.  The IVs were causing a bunch of cruisers to book other lines.  Why not figure out the percentage that like the IVs and the percentage that want the balconies.  Maybe it is 20% that like the IVs?  Why build a ship full of IVs?  Even Carnival has balconies.

 

Ship designs are approved 3 - 5 years in advance.  The cost of a re-design and resulting change order is astronomical.   

 

Maybe they'll start doing in on ships post Edge #5 as she hinted at.  Personally, I'd like to see more M-Class and S-Class sized ships. 

 

[RichYak]

One note to Celebrity's marketing staff: If you're going through the trouble of creating a webinar to dispel the rumors of the new president coming in and dramatically cutting costs, maybe don't include video of her wielding an actual hatchet.

 

[NutsAboutGolf]

6 minutes ago, RichYak said:

One note to Celebrity's marketing staff: If you're going through the trouble of creating a webinar to dispel the rumors of the new president coming in and dramatically cutting costs, maybe don't include video of her wielding an actual hatchet.

 

 

You KNOW they're reading every word of this thread as they want to see how their first Q&A with the new President was received; I bet your post literally has them banging their heads against a wall...lol

[NutsAboutGolf]

30 minutes ago, DaKahuna said:

 

Ship designs are approved 3 - 5 years in advance.  The cost of a re-design and resulting change order is astronomical.   

 

Maybe they'll start doing in on ships post Edge #5 as she hinted at.  Personally, I'd like to see more M-Class and S-Class sized ships. 

 

 

I'm very curious, why keep the 5th ship features a secret?  With a vehicle or a new smartphone, you want to keep them a secret as you want people to buy the current version and not hold out for the newer version but this logic doesn't apply here.  No one is going to hold out on their vacation for two years as they wait for the newest ship to sail 🤔