Gratuities Are Going Up Again, Effective 11.11.2023

[Realrunner]

44 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I do not know anybody who works over 100 hours a week, every week, for 6-9 months like crew members on a ship work (I will concede that I am in my late 50s and retired like most of my friends). The cruise industry (for ships sailing from US ports) is simply using the same tip based model that is used by a lot of businesses in the service industry in the US. Paying gratuities to crew members is no different than tipping servers and bartenders at restaurants/bars in the US. I would never screw over crew members on a ship just like I would never screw over a server or bartender on land. 

Well it sounds as though the U S model is on its way out from what I read on this thread.  Tipping servers and bartenders on land is different because you’ve had the food and the drinks and then you tip.  Unlike Royal wanting you to tip before you had the service which is what a lot of what this thread is all about.

[broberts]

2 hours ago, DawnontheRiviera said:

Reading some of these responses makes me sad. $18 a day is still reasonable and fair. To the hundreds of service workers on every ship who work 12 plus hours a day, SEVEN days a week, for 6-8 month contracts (Be honest, how many of you would do that?). The workers who are in the shared tipping pool get paid an average of $600 a month for 360 hours. And the share about doubles that. Does anyone really feel they have to withhold those distributed gratuities from these hard working people? 

 

Hard working people deserve a living wage. Why are you suggesting instead that it is the moral duty of customers to make up for corporate deficiencies?

 

[bretts173]

1 hour ago, Realrunner said:

Well it sounds as though the U S model is on its way out from what I read on this thread.  Tipping servers and bartenders on land is different because you’ve had the food and the drinks and then you tip.  Unlike Royal wanting you to tip before you had the service which is what a lot of what this thread is all about.

And how does this thread show the US model is on the way out exactly? It's all well and good you not being happy about the system because that is not the way it is in the UK. But this method of tipping and wage payment for service staff has been around for a long time and is going to be tough to change, anyone who thinks by pretending to lead the way as an example to others is having themselves on.

[not-enough-cruising]

3 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I do not know anybody who works over 100 hours a week, every week, for 6-9 months like crew members on a ship work (I will concede that I am in my late 50s and retired like most of my friends). The cruise industry (for ships sailing from US ports) is simply using the same tip based model that is used by a lot of businesses in the service industry in the US. Paying gratuities to crew members is no different than tipping servers and bartenders at restaurants/bars in the US. I would never screw over crew members on a ship just like I would never screw over a server or bartender on land. 

No one on the ship is working over 100 hours a week; the Maritime Labour convention limits work hours to “no more than 14 hours on a 24 hour period and no more than 72 hours in a 7 day period” 

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

Hard working people deserve a living wage. Why are you suggesting instead that it is the moral duty of customers to make up for corporate deficiencies?

 

Crew members on cruise ships do make a living wage 

[A&L_Ont]

17 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

You mean the service you get now isn't twice as good as what you used to get?😇

You made me laugh with this one. 

 

6 hours ago, ReneeFLL said:

Interesting, you just joined yesterday and all 8 posts are on this tipping thread. 🤔

It is.

[not-enough-cruising]

4 hours ago, DawnontheRiviera said:

Reading some of these responses makes me sad. $18 a day is still reasonable and fair. To the hundreds of service workers on every ship who work 12 plus hours a day, SEVEN days a week, for 6-8 month contracts (Be honest, how many of you would do that?). The workers who are in the shared tipping pool get paid an average of $600 a month for 360 hours. And the share about doubles that. Does anyone really feel they have to withhold those distributed gratuities from these hard working people? 

Lots of misleading or incorrect o formation here. 
GUARANTEED MINIMUM wage for a crew member is  $658 per month (going to $666 on Jan 1)  The cre gets this amount regardless of tips. 

288 hours is the MAXIMUM that can be worked in a month, as governed by international law (not 360)

 

Using the Philippines as an example, since they are one of the highest ethnicities represented on cruise ships; the average salary for a job such as housekeeping is $175 USD per month. Median salary in the Philippines is USD $308. 

The guaranteed minimum on the ship is over DOUBLE what could be made at home (and working similar hours). I suppose that is why you run into so many crew members that spend decades working on the ships. 

 

Stop making it sound like the crew is being  taken advantage of or not compensated fairly. Stop viewing the financials of the crew through a North American or Western European eye. 
 

I will tip, in cash, those that I interact with directly. Those “behind-the-scenes” people are doing just fine, and do not, in my opinion, warrant a gratuity from me.

 

 

[Realrunner]

2 hours ago, bretts173 said:

And how does this thread show the US model is on the way out exactly? It's all well and good you not being happy about the system because that is not the way it is in the UK. But this method of tipping and wage payment for service staff has been around for a long time and is going to be tough to change, anyone who thinks by pretending to lead the way as an example to others is having themselves on.

I’m not looking at it because I think we’ve got a better system over here, I’m looking at because I don’t believe in paying for good service until I’ve had it whichever country employs a system.  But it seems that on this discussion people are fed up of being put on by corporate responsibility when they should be paying a living wage to their employees.  I am not leading the way but listening to what people are saying on the thread something will have to change eventually.  It’s all about listening and learning.

[Vibe]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Lots of misleading or incorrect o formation here. 
GUARANTEED MINIMUM wage for a crew member is  $658 per month (going to $666 on Jan 1)  The cre gets this amount regardless of tips. 

288 hours is the MAXIMUM that can be worked in a month, as governed by international law (not 360)

 

Using the Philippines as an example, since they are one of the highest ethnicities represented on cruise ships; the average salary for a job such as housekeeping is $175 USD per month. Median salary in the Philippines is USD $308. 

The guaranteed minimum on the ship is over DOUBLE what could be made at home (and working similar hours). I suppose that is why you run into so many crew members that spend decades working on the ships. 

 

Stop making it sound like the crew is being  taken advantage of or not compensated fairly. Stop viewing the financials of the crew through a North American or Western European eye. 
 

I will tip, in cash, those that I interact with directly. Those “behind-the-scenes” people are doing just fine, and do not, in my opinion, warrant a gratuity from me.

 

 

You have very passionate opinions about tipping the ships crew and the porters at the cruise terminal. You are welcome to have these opinions. I guess that is why your screen name is not “not-enough-tipping”.😀

Edited November 6, 2023 by Vibe

[not-enough-cruising]

3 minutes ago, Vibe said:

You have very passionate opinions about tipping the ships crew and the porters at the cruise terminal. You are welcome to have these opinions. I guess that is why your screen name is not “not-enough-tipping”.😀

We all have our opinions, and justifiably so. 
 

it makes no difference to me what people do.  What I can not tolerate, however, is misinformation being posted that could improperly influence someone’s decision. 
 

I just put out the facts, debunk the nonsense, and let folks do what they wish. 

[Vibe]

1 minute ago, not-enough-cruising said:

We all have our opinions, and justifiably so. 
 

it makes no difference to me what people do.  What I can not tolerate, however, is misinformation being posted that could improperly influence someone’s decision. 
 

I just put out the facts, debunk the nonsense, and let folks do what they wish. 

I have always disagreed with you on this topic, however with the two recent increases in the automatic gratuity amounts combined with the cut back of services, you have me thinking 🤔 

[iscruisingdunzo]

5 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

This thread does a good job of identifying cruisers who routinely screw hard working crew members. Just my opinion, but if you can’t afford the gratuities you can’t afford the cruise. 

LOL. Not a single cruise customer is screwing ANYONE over regardless of how they treat gratuities. 

 

Nobody is holding a gun to the head of every staff member on a cruise ship. Nobody is forcing them to work for wages that they think are unfair. They only work for one contract at a time and have no obligation to sign on again if the wages, conditions, and duties are so so poor. 

 

gra·tu·i·ty

/ɡrəˈto͞oədē/

noun

plural noun: gratuities

1. a tip given to a waiter, taxicab driver, etc.

    

   And you can bet that if the wages were that bad and conditions were poor, the cruise lines would have a far harder time staffing them. But they are not. There has never been a short staffed RCI cruise ship. 

[bjlaac]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Lots of misleading or incorrect o formation here. 
GUARANTEED MINIMUM wage for a crew member is  $658 per month (going to $666 on Jan 1)  The cre gets this amount regardless of tips. 

288 hours is the MAXIMUM that can be worked in a month, as governed by international law (not 360)

 

Using the Philippines as an example, since they are one of the highest ethnicities represented on cruise ships; the average salary for a job such as housekeeping is $175 USD per month. Median salary in the Philippines is USD $308. 

The guaranteed minimum on the ship is over DOUBLE what could be made at home (and working similar hours). I suppose that is why you run into so many crew members that spend decades working on the ships. 

 

Stop making it sound like the crew is being  taken advantage of or not compensated fairly. Stop viewing the financials of the crew through a North American or Western European eye. 
 

I will tip, in cash, those that I interact with directly. Those “behind-the-scenes” people are doing just fine, and do not, in my opinion, warrant a gratuity from me.

 

 

You hit the nail on the head here with why those of us pushing back on the auto gratuities and never ending increases don't want to play anymore.  Yet it goes beyond culture and and the financial circumstances of each crew member.  RCCL, as well as the other cruise lines, are playing us all for sentimental fools.  They've got us believing we need to compensate the poor disadvantaged crew members who are making double the average salary in their own country, get free room and board and the only expense other than personal items is internet.

 

I've already shown in an earlier post that the auto tips, if you pay them, is 30% of the the normal vacation expenses that by US standards would be subject to the typical 18% to 20% tip rate in the United States.  In addition, that also includes the many areas (i.e behind the scenes) that no one in their right mind would tip anywhere else besides a cruise ship and if removed, the 30% would be that much higher.

 

So folks, do what your wish, after all its your money, but its mine too and after 30+ years of paying the auto tips and more I've said no more.  From now on, I'll be removing every auto gratuity charge and tipping directly those who serve me, if earned, and not what RCL or NCL or Carnival tells me to, but what is warranted based on service.

Edited November 6, 2023 by bjlaac

[not-enough-cruising]

2 minutes ago, bjlaac said:

You hit the nail on the head here with why those of us pushing back on the auto gratuities and never ending increases don't want to play anymore.  Yet it goes beyond culture and and the financial circumstances of each crew member.  RCCL, as well as the other cruise lines, are playing us all for sentimental fools.  They've got us believing we need to compensate the poor disadvantaged crew members who are making double the average salary in their own country, get free room and board and the only expense other than personal items is internet.

 

I've already shown in an earlier post that the auto tips, if you pay them, is 30% of the the normal vacation expenses that by US standards would be subject to the typical 18% to 20% tip rate in the United States.  In addition, that also includes the many areas (i.e behind the scenes) that no one in their right mind would tip anywhere else besides a cruise ship and if removed, the 30% would be that much higher.

 

So folks, do what your wish, after all its your money, but its mine too and after 30+ years of paying the auto tips and more I've said no more.  From now on, I'll be removing every auto gratuity charge and tipping directly those who serve me, if earned, and not what RCL or NCL or Carnival tells me too but what is warranted based on service.

Well said!

[not-enough-cruising]

9 minutes ago, Vibe said:

I have always disagreed with you on this topic, however with the two recent increases in the automatic gratuity amounts combined with the cut back of services, you have me thinking 🤔 

Thinking about it is a good thing. 

[broberts]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Crew members on cruise ships do make a living wage 

 

Not according to the post I was responding to. Can you provide objective data to backup your claim?

[iscruisingdunzo]

3 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Not according to the post I was responding to. Can you provide objective data to backup your claim?

Yes, the DATA IS THEY ARE THERE WEEK IN AND WEEK OUT!

 

If they were not paid accordingly, NOBODY would work on a cruise ship. This is clearly evident when you are on a ship. Next time you are ask a few of the more labor intensive positions how long they have been working on a ship. The vast majority will be 5+ years. 

 

You don't make this choice if you are not paid or treated fairly. 

[time4u2go]

9 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Not according to the post I was responding to. Can you provide objective data to backup your claim?

I think one problem is, how is a "living wage" defined?  A living wage in what country?  In the country the crew member is from?

[not-enough-cruising]

4 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

I think one problem is, how is a "living wage" defined?  A living wage in what country?  In the country the crew member is from?

The baseline indicator must be the living wage as dictated by the crew member’s home country, no doubt 

[not-enough-cruising]

15 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Not according to the post I was responding to. Can you provide objective data to backup your claim?

Yes.

The Maritime Labour Convention mandates and controls the minimum wages and hours of the crew. 
Living wage for every country in the world can be found online. 
 

I posted the exact numbers earlier this morning. 

[Ocean Boy]

30 minutes ago, Vibe said:

I have always disagreed with you on this topic, however with the two recent increases in the automatic gratuity amounts combined with the cut back of services, you have me thinking 🤔 

I'm also paying 100% more (double) for my cruise in February than I paid for the same cruise last January. RCI can use some of that increase to pay its crew. Afterall, where would RCI be without them? Yeah, like you, I've been doing a lot of thinking too.

[Ocean Boy]

6 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

This thread does a good job of identifying cruisers who routinely screw hard working crew members. Just my opinion, but if you can’t afford the gratuities you can’t afford the cruise. 

None of this discussion has been about what people can, or cannot, afford.

[broberts]

16 minutes ago, iscruisingdunzo said:

... 

 

You don't make this choice if you are not paid or treated fairly. 

 

An absolutely ridiculous assertion. Many people work in jobs that treat them unfairly and pay them poorly. To argue otherwise denies reality.

 

8 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Living wage for every country in the world can be found online. 

 

Are these employees working in their native country? 

 

The suggestion that living wage should be gauged by the standards of their country of origin is obviously flawed. Their cost of living bears no relation to that location.

 

[PhillyFan33579]

2 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

None of this discussion has been about what people can, or cannot, afford.

The whole nexus behind removing gratuities is financially based. To think otherwise is short sighted. 

[time4u2go]

4 minutes ago, broberts said:

The suggestion that living wage should be gauged by the standards of their country of origin is obviously flawed. Their cost of living bears no relation to that location.

Then what location do you think should be used in determining their cost of living?  Their cost of living on the ship is zero.  If not their home country, then where?