Gratuities Are Going Up Again, Effective 11.11.2023

[jean87510]

44 minutes ago, travelberlin said:

But this is exactly wrong: Expecting /demanding tips to make a competitive wage. Those are responsibility of the employers and not of the guests.

Exactly.  And some on here don't understand why we are questioning this.  Why am I, the customer, responsible for giving extra so that people behind the scenes can make a salary?  Why doesn't the cruise line do this?  With sailings at full capacity plus all the paid venues such as the casino, cococay, shops, dining, why is the customer expected to give extra to the little guy behind the scenes?  Why raise gratuities 2x in one year and cut services?  

[RyderJ201]

18 minutes ago, bretts173 said:

Hard to change history, Americans have been tipping and providing a decent wage this way since the 1800's.

Not exactly. Only with few exceptions like waiting tables. We don't tip kitchen staff. We don't tip cleaning staff in a restaurant or hotel. Just the waiters, housekeeping, bell men carrying our bags. Cooks, cleaners, maintenance staff of hotels and restaurants AKA " Behind the scenes " people get a salary. No cut of gratuities is involved. It's only on cruises we are expected to subsidize 1500 to 3000 people's salary. (25% of crew, 50%, 75% some are Very hung up on this number). Hotels, restaurants, resorts all pay salary to " behind the scenes " employees. Only cruise lines dump this guilt trip on customers to save on profits. 

[jean87510]

25 minutes ago, bretts173 said:

Hard to change history, Americans have been tipping and providing a decent wage this way since the 1800's.

But you must admit in today's world the tipping is getting to be a little much.  Tipping at self serve at a salaried position is my favorite.  It started with the lockdown as a reward for those who worked in the public and almost 4 years later has not slowed down.

[travelberlin]

It is amazing what type of costs the employer can pass to the customer in USA. I was surprised to find a position at my restaurant bills in San Francisco which is called “Mandate”. From the internet: “Employer Mandate" is the updated term for "Healty San Francisco." SF requires employers to provide health care coverage for their employees. Some have chosen to tack on a separate fee to cover this rather than just up their menu prices. Sometimes it's a per person fee, others a percentage of the bill.” 🧐

 

 

[bucfan2]

5 hours ago, RyderJ201 said:

 And 15 to 20% of all passengers remove the automatic gratuities

Some appreciate real data.  Is this your data, or is there actual data that I've not been able to locate?  Love to see your reference for this # (an no, 'my 2nd cousins' best friends dad who knew this dude' is not 'real data').

Edited November 10, 2023 by bucfan2

[RyderJ201]

2 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

Some appreciate real data.  Is this your data, or is there actual data that I've not been able to locate?  Love to see your reference for this # (an no, 'my 2nd cousins' best friends dad who knew this dude' is not 'real data').

The amount of names per page and amount of pages on the list I've seen when being added to it.

 

But I'm sure I'm the only person who removes them so nothing for you lot to worry about.

[bucfan2]

7 minutes ago, RyderJ201 said:

But I'm sure I'm the only person who removes them so nothing for you lot to worry about.

Was wondering if you just picked random data that fits your argument...now we know.  And it's definitely 'nothing for you lot to worry about'...I think.

Edited November 10, 2023 by bucfan2

[RyderJ201]

8 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

Was wondering if you just picked random data that fits your argument...now we know.  And it's definitely 'nothing for you lot to worry about'...I think.

If I had written proof it was 15% would that be enough to convince you to stop paying automatic gratuities?

[Ocean Boy]

1 hour ago, jean87510 said:

Exactly.  And some on here don't understand why we are questioning this.  Why am I, the customer, responsible for giving extra so that people behind the scenes can make a salary?  Why doesn't the cruise line do this?  With sailings at full capacity plus all the paid venues such as the casino, cococay, shops, dining, why is the customer expected to give extra to the little guy behind the scenes?  Why raise gratuities 2x in one year and cut services?  

The answer to your question is pretty simple. If things were not done this way then Mr. Liberty might have to forego some of his 11 million dollar salary. I wonder how much sleep he loses at night thinking about how much the people washing towels in the bowels of the ships are being compensated. But then, he doesn't have to worry about those towel washers as his customers have it covered.

 

I remember when the reopening started people were posting that we should increase tipping to make up for the months of tips that the crews lost. So it is not hard to understand that these people would feel the need to tip everyone in, or out of, sight. Some of the thought processes around here are truly mind boggling. I wonder, is this mentality unique to people who patron the cruise industry or is it more pervasive?🤔

[bucfan2]

Just now, RyderJ201 said:

If I had written proof it was 15% would that be enough to convince you to stop paying automatic gratuities?

This 38 pages has made me reconsider some things.  And yes, most of my decisions are based on facts.  If I really cared what you did w/ your gratuites, I'd throw out some random data as well. Just trying to make an overall assessment - so ya, facts seems to work best. 

[RyderJ201]

6 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

This 38 pages has made me reconsider some things.  And yes, most of my decisions are based on facts.  If I really cared what you did w/ your gratuites, I'd throw out some random data as well. Just trying to make an overall assessment - so ya, facts seems to work best. 

Fact. A percentage of passengers on each and every voyage remove the automatic gratuities. I doubt you need proof to believe this.

 

Fact. A percentage of all passengers don't remove automatic gratuities.

 

Fact. Crew still continue to sign on, work, and continue living.

 

And just an additional observation.

I read the thread asking if people are still tipping extra on top of automatic gratuities just now. It's maybe 10 or 20 pages long. I noticed in the course of conversation at least half a dozen people said they are considering removing auto grats for the first time because of the increase in amount vs what the people who actually serve them are getting vs what those folks won't get when they stop tipping extra. So more and more people are considering taking good care of just those that wait on them and leaving the big cruise corporations to make up the rest. In the end nobody should be made to feel bad for only wanting to tip the way they would anyplace else.

[bucfan2]

17 minutes ago, RyderJ201 said:

Fact. A percentage of passengers on each and every voyage remove the automatic gratuities. I doubt you need proof to believe this.

No, certainly don't need any proof for that fact.  How about the15-20% you mentioned?  Just can't seem to find that fact.

Edited November 10, 2023 by bucfan2

[TYMAN]

Yes, after rereading the posts, around six folks are considering removing the auto grats, but, how many "silent" folks, like me (until now, ha) will continue to leave the auto grats in place AND tip above and beyond the auto grats? Like I've stated on many of these tipping threads, I've collected quite a bit of singles when the cruise industry was shut down and I plan on giving those out to the crew members who didn't have an income during that time. Lastly, as I've stated before, I can't take it with me, and my son already has more money than me, so I'll take care of the crew that takes care of me. 

[jean87510]

28 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

The answer to your question is pretty simple. If things were not done this way then Mr. Liberty might have to forego some of his 11 million dollar salary. I wonder how much sleep he loses at night thinking about how much the people washing towels in the bowels of the ships are being compensated. But then, he doesn't have to worry about those towel washers as his customers have it covered.

 

I remember when the reopening started people were posting that we should increase tipping to make up for the months of tips that the crews lost. So it is not hard to understand that these people would feel the need to tip everyone in, or out of, sight. Some of the thought processes around here are truly mind boggling. I wonder, is this mentality unique to people who patron the cruise industry or is it more pervasive?🤔

I think the sheeple mentality can be found pretty much everywhere.  What I am curious about is what % of the people who tip (per them) above and beyond bring gifts for the crew aboard.  Why?  Because I think because they interact with the crew, they feel badly and want to make it up to them by autogratuities plus tips everywhere and gifts.  I am nice to the crew, after 31 cruises really haven't had any negative experiences but I also view them not as needy suffering adults but as working professional adults and treat them as such.  It may sound selfish but I'm on my vacation to relax not worry about staffs salary compensations.

[RyderJ201]

3 minutes ago, TYMAN said:

Yes, after rereading the posts, around six folks are considering removing the auto grats, but, how many "silent" folks, like me (until now, ha) will continue to leave the auto grats in place AND tip above and beyond the auto grats? Like I've stated on many of these tipping threads, I've collected quite a bit of singles when the cruise industry was shut down and I plan on giving those out to the crew members who didn't have an income during that time. Lastly, as I've stated before, I can't take it with me, and my son already has more money than me, so I'll take care of the crew that takes care of me. 

Nobody who keeps the automatic gratuities on this site or tips extra is silent. LOL.

And you can give every last cent you have. I don't care.

Not everyone has that luxury. Some have to save every penny to afford the voyage and afford what we consider normal tipping practices on land. 

Everyone do you. But don't shame how others do or how they view this situation. 

Again, the real bad guys are the cruise lines who want us to pay the works salaries.

[A&L_Ont]

14 hours ago, UNCFanatik said:

 

On every drink I purchase, Royal deems it necessary to tip for me by adding a mandatory 18% gratuity. Whether I get a craft cocktail that takes time and skill for bartender to prepare or if they just hand me a beer. What sense does that make? So, my $8 beer is now $9.44? Someone handing me a beer is worth 18% of the cost of beer? 

 

AND where is the incentive for "exception service" when their is a mandatory gratuity already added? AND why if I purchase a drink packager pre-cruise, am I charge for service that is yet to be delivered? Where is the incentive for "exceptional service"

 

Why dont you expect "exceptional service" to be the minimum base line for the level of service that a crew member is paid by the cruise line to do? Handing me a beer, doesnt made my experience "so much better" 

 

 

This addresses the bar staff which makes total sense.  
 

Since there is no mandatory tip for your cabin attendant and MDR staff what is your technique with them with gratuities removed?  You didn’t address it in your response.

Edited November 10, 2023 by A&L_Ont

[not-enough-cruising]

8 hours ago, fizzywm said:

Since you stand behind your statement, I'll move on assuming you don't tip land based restaurant servers either, unless they really wow you. After all, they shouldn't sign on to make minimum wage and expect more than that.

Finally, something we can agree on, you should move on.

 

Your repetitive misunderstanding of even the basics of this discussion make it very difficult to have any meaningful debate with you.

 

For the record, yes, I do tip at a land base restaurant, just like I tip my waiter in the main dining room. As stated earlier, these individuals can have a direct influence on my experience. How much they are tipped is based on merit and performance. 
 

I NEVER tip before service, and I NEVER allow a corporation to tell me how much I should tip. This is the crux of the entire discussion, a fact that seems to have completely alluded you. 

[RyderJ201]

12 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

No, certainly don't need any proof for that fact.  How about the15-20% you mentioned?  Just can't seem to find that fact.

Again, based on the lists I've seen and quick math. You never answered my question. Would proof of percentage effect how you tip?

[TYMAN]

Not shaming anybody. There's two sides to the story and both sides need to be heard. It's cool either way, just stating how I handle it just like those that remove the auto's state how they handle it. It's a vacation, enjoy! 

Edited November 10, 2023 by TYMAN

[bucfan2]

3 minutes ago, RyderJ201 said:

Again, based on the lists I've seen and quick math. You never answered my question. Would proof of percentage effect how you tip?

As mentioned, this whole thread has me reconsidering the entire issue.  Just wondering where the 15-20% came from.  I tend to prefer facts over opinions...although some don't seem to let facts cloud their judgement.

Edited November 10, 2023 by bucfan2

[RyderJ201]

2 minutes ago, TYMAN said:

Not shaming anybody. There's two sides to the story and both sides need to be heard. It's cool either way, just stating how I handle it just those that remove the auto's state how they handle it. It's a vacation, enjoy! 

Never ment you personally shaming. It's just the place so many go directly to. Enjoy.

[TYMAN]

6 minutes ago, RyderJ201 said:

Never ment you personally shaming. It's just the place so many go directly to. Enjoy.

All good. Cheers

[RyderJ201]

1 minute ago, bucfan2 said:

As mentioned, this whole thread has me reconsidering the entire issue.  Do prefer facts over opinions...although some don't seem to let facts cloud their judgement.

Let me just say I don't say these things in hopes of anyone tipping less and certainly not tipping at all. Everyone should do what works best for them. 

[bucfan2]

2 minutes ago, RyderJ201 said:

Let me just say I don't say these things in hopes of anyone tipping less and certainly not tipping at all. Everyone should do what works best for them. 

That's cool.  Like I mentioned, this entire thread has us re-evaluating.  Been interesting, to say the least.

[travelberlin]

55 minutes ago, TYMAN said:

Yes, after rereading the posts, around six folks are considering removing the auto grats, but, how many "silent" folks, like me (until now, ha) will continue to leave the auto grats in place AND tip above and beyond the auto grats? Like I've stated on many of these tipping threads, I've collected quite a bit of singles when the cruise industry was shut down and I plan on giving those out to the crew members who didn't have an income during that time. Lastly, as I've stated before, I can't take it with me, and my son already has more money than me, so I'll take care of the crew that takes care of me. 

Good for you if you want to distribute your money this way. Others have other ways for distribution including charity 🤔

Edited November 10, 2023 by travelberlin