Gratuities Are Going Up Again, Effective 11.11.2023

[RyderJ201]

1 minute ago, fizzywm said:

Why does it matter if they do a good job? It’s not your job to pay them, it’s the restaurant’s. That’s the mantra I’ve seen over and over here.

Because tipping "servers" is about the quality of their services. 

[Husky1987]

27 minutes ago, fizzywm said:

And you once again gloss over the crux of my replies to you which were always about the fact that the guaranteed minimum salary is paltry pay in comparison to the tips earned.

 

And once again the question is how much does the back of house worker make above the $600+ (whatever the number mentioned before) guaranteed minimum from the tip pool that you're telling us they rely on so heavily and that makes the guaranteed minimum "paltry" in comparison?  Do you know?  Does anyone know?  Is it $10/month?  $100/month?  $1000/month?  More?

[fizzywm]

Just now, RyderJ201 said:

Because tipping "servers" is about the quality of their services. 

If it’s not your job to pay them, it’s not your job to pay them—period.

[RyderJ201]

Just now, fizzywm said:

To point out the inconsistency of saying “not my job to pay them”. Restaurants should pay servers too but no one here is advocating not paying tips there unless service is bad. You have to wonder what’s different about land vs sea.

The "not my job to pay them" is about the "behind the scenes" people. Nobody here has said they don't believe in not tipping servers for good service. It's tipping those you do not see (and automatic gratuities tipping for possible bad service from actual servers) that is in question.

[goldfish65]

7 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

 

if tipping should be based on service provided

 

then why do more attractive servers "earn" more. Do less attractive servers deserve less money for same level of service?

 

Why does the clothing a server wears, "earn" them more tips?

 

Why do many other factors not related to service provided, affect what a server "earns"

 

But yet, tipping creates these kind of issues but hey, those dark sides of tipping dont give you the warm fuzzies when you pat yourself on the back for helping 

Nearly everything has a dark side. And I am not disagreeing or arguing. Now this is getting interesting. 

 

The tipping culture is just one small example of unfair factors everywhere you go.  Why are medical sales people usually very attractive? Why do women prefer tall men? 

 

 

[fizzywm]

Just now, Husky1987 said:

 

And once again the question is how much does the back of house worker make above the $600+ (whatever the number mentioned before) guaranteed minimum from the tip pool that you're telling us they rely on so heavily and that makes the guaranteed minimum "paltry" in comparison?  Do you know?  Does anyone know?  Is it $10/month?  $100/month?  $1000/month?  More?

I saw a post in another thread from a former RCCL employee saying that dining staff make “maybe a quarter” of their usual take home pay when they are on the ship while it is drydocked. So that tells me that for dining staff the oh so competitive guaranteed minimum probably isn’t the amount they are signing on for. I’m sure back of house make less from tips. But if their salary is so competitive, why does the cruise line include tips?

[RyderJ201]

3 minutes ago, fizzywm said:

If it’s not your job to pay them, it’s not your job to pay them—period.

Hahaha. You literally ran out of comebacks.

It's your job to tip something for good service. Tipping for good service is not paying anyone. It's not your job to pre tip for possible good service or to tip people who don't serve you. 

[RyderJ201]

2 minutes ago, fizzywm said:

I saw a post in another thread from a former RCCL employee saying that dining staff make “maybe a quarter” of their usual take home pay when they are on the ship while it is drydocked. So that tells me that for dining staff the oh so competitive guaranteed minimum probably isn’t the amount they are signing on for. I’m sure back of house make less from tips. But if their salary is so competitive, why does the cruise line include tips?

I'll give you this one. I don't think the base salary is so great. That's only an assumption. But people take the jobs because it's still a lot more than in their own country. 

[fizzywm]

6 minutes ago, RyderJ201 said:

Hahaha. You literally ran out of comebacks.

It's your job to tip something for good service. Tipping for good service is not paying anyone. It's not your job to pre tip for possible good service or to tip people who don't serve you. 

My job? I don’t eat out or cruise to work. It is the employer’s job to pay employees fairly. The minimum guaranteed salary is all they should expect per the post I originally replied to.

 

Your semantics over the word paying are laughable. When I give anyone money for any reason I’m paying them.

 

And if you go back to the beginning of my posts in this thread you’ll see I’ve been consistent from the beginning in saying that it should be covered by the employer but it isn’t. No different for dining out on land (in US) than sea.

 

 

I'll give you this one. I don't think the base salary is so great. That's only an assumption. But people take the jobs because it's still a lot more than in their own country. 

that’s all I came here to say from the beginning. The money they make gets competitive when tips are factored in.

Edited November 10, 2023 by fizzywm

[bjlaac]

12 hours ago, fizzywm said:

Yes, like server jobs in restaurants can be competitive once the tips are factored in.

 

I'll give an example:

The basic wage per ILO is $653 per month.

Maybe that is competitive in the Philippines per the post earlier in this thread.

Most of my room stewards on past cruises were Indonesian.

 

The median salary in Indonesia is around $669/mo according to many sources including this one: https://www.salaryexplorer.com/average-salary-wage-comparison-indonesia-c101

 

Do you really think that's competitive for someone working overseas 7 days a week for 6 months? Of course it's not. The tips are what make the job pay competitively just like restaurant pay in the US.

According to this source https://worldsalaries.com/average-hotel-staff-salary-in-indonesia/

a waiter with 1 to 3 years experience in indonesia earns a salary ad bonus of $478/month with the average waiter earning $605/month, both below the the $653 cruise line salaries before tips.

 

An entry level hotel worker earns $128/month with an average hotel worker earning $271/month.  Well below what the $653/month cruise salary affords before any gratuities are added.

 

So no, they are not underpaid except in the minds of those falling for RCCL and any other cruise line sob stories.

 

Its a game to extract as much dollars as they can folks....nothing more.

 

So if you want to tip above the gratuities go ahead, if you want to remove them and tip in cash fine, heck...even if you remove everything and tip nothing the crew is not being stiffed

Edited November 10, 2023 by bjlaac

[jean87510]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

I have mentioned it on these boards before, but it bears repeating.  
At our local grocery store, there is a screen asking for a tip, just before final payment screen, at the SELF SCAN checkout!!

you're helping the little guy in the back.

[travelberlin]

41 minutes ago, fizzywm said:

Which is no different than servers in a land based restaurant in the US. But this argument doesn’t fly there and everyone knows it. I’d love to see anyone on your side admit they stiff waiters since it is the restaurant’s job to pay them fairly. I would applaud the consistency.

Fortunately I live in a country in which customers are not responsible for paying proper wages of the waiters. Lots of consistency on my side in relation to tips being a reward for good service and the percentages at the discretion of the customers.

[fizzywm]

18 minutes ago, bjlaac said:

According to this source https://worldsalaries.com/average-hotel-staff-salary-in-indonesia/

a waiter with 1 to 3 years experience in indonesia earns a salary ad bonus of $478/month with the average waiter earning $605/month, both below the the $653 cruise line salaries before tips.

 

According to this source https://worldsalaries.com/average-hotel-staff-salary-in-indonesia/

An entry level hotel worker earns $128/month with an average hotel worker earning $271/month.  Well below what the $653/month cruise salary affords before any gratuities are added.

 

So no, they are not underpaid escept in the minds of those falling for RCCL and any other cruise line sob stories.

 

Its a game to extract as much dollars as they can folks....nothing more.

 

So if you want to tip above the gratuities go ahead, if you want to remove them and tip in cash fine, heck...even if you remove everything and tip nothing the crew is not being stiffed

You think a pay bump of less than 8% for working on a ship (comparing the $605/mo for waiters to $653/mo) makes the long hours, 7 days a week, being away from home for 6 months, living in a tiny room without a window all worth it? And don’t forget to factor in flights that cost multiple months of base pay on either end of the contract. Would you do that for 8% extra above what you’re making? I doubt it. Obviously tips are where the bulk of their pay comes from. Let’s be real.

Edited November 10, 2023 by fizzywm

[RyderJ201]

5 minutes ago, fizzywm said:

My job? I don’t eat out or cruise to work. It is the employer’s job to pay employees fairly. The minimum guaranteed salary is all they should expect per the post I originally replied to.

 

Your semantics over the word paying are laughable. When I give anyone money for any reason I’m paying them.

 

And if you go back to the beginning of my posts in this thread you’ll see I’ve been consistent from the beginning in saying that it should be covered by the employer but it isn’t. No different for dining out on land (in US) than sea.

 

 

 

I'll give you this one. I don't think the base salary is so great. That's only an assumption. But people take the jobs because it's still a lot more than in their own country. 

that’s all I came here to say from the beginning. The money they make gets competitive when tips are factored in.

I'm no longer sure what we have been arguing about? I don't see tipping as paying, it's tipping, but who cares.

 

I thought you believed it was our moral responsibility to consider "behind the scenes" people before removing automatic gratuities and that we hurt them by doing so? That somehow that responsibility of subsidizing those workers salaries falls on us? Maybe you don't feel that way and I misunderstood? 

[fizzywm]

1 minute ago, RyderJ201 said:

I thought you believed it was our moral responsibility to consider "behind the scenes" people before removing automatic gratuities and that we hurt them by doing so? That somehow that responsibility of subsidizing those workers salaries falls on us? Maybe you don't feel that way and I misunderstood? 

I told you more than once that how you feel about it morally is up to you. But the fact is for the time being, unless things change, we do subsidize those workers’ salaries through auto gratuities. The tips are part of their pay that they factor into the equation just like people in land based tipped positions. I’m sure the cruise lines don’t pay them tips for no reason whatsoever. I’ve also said many times that I don’t like it either, but it is what it is. 

[RyderJ201]

7 minutes ago, fizzywm said:

I told you more than once that how you feel about it morally is up to you. But the fact is for the time being, unless things change, we do subsidize those workers’ salaries through auto gratuities. The tips are part of their pay that they factor into the equation just like people in land based tipped positions. I’m sure the cruise lines don’t pay them tips for no reason whatsoever. I’ve also said many times that I don’t like it either, but it is what it is. 

And I'm sure they factor for the percentage that remove the automatic gratuities.

And based on what I've read on the other thread about to tip extra or not to. It seems more people are getting ready to join the removing club. 

Cruise lines (hotels/restaurants at sea) get away with dumping there financial responsibility to "behind the scenes" employees on the customer's. It's a scam I refuse to participate in. Paying those employees is what our cruise fare is for. Not 100% profits. They are not tipped positions. I'll tip my waiter. You pay your laundry staff out of profits. That's how I feel about it. 

[not-enough-cruising]

51 minutes ago, fizzywm said:

If it’s not your job to pay them, it’s not your job to pay them—period.

A tip is not “pay” a tip is a bonus 

[fizzywm]

Just now, not-enough-cruising said:

A tip is not “pay” a tip is a bonus 

3/4 of a dining employee’s take home pay isn’t pay? (Number per former RCCL employee in another thread)  

 

Call it whatever makes you feel better. The end result remains the same.

[tottenhamfc]

2 minutes ago, fizzywm said:

3/4 of a dining employee’s take home pay isn’t pay? (Number per former RCCL employee in another thread)  

 

Call it whatever makes you feel better. The end result remains the same.

Like I have said the line item is optics. It is the downloading of responsibility in pay structure is what irks customers. All in pricing is the only way out of this. 

[fizzywm]

Just now, tottenhamfc said:

Like I have said the line item is optics. It is the downloading of responsibility in pay structure is what irks customers. All in pricing is the only way out of this. 

I’m 100% in agreement with this.

[RyderJ201]

4 minutes ago, fizzywm said:

3/4 of a dining employee’s take home pay isn’t pay? (Number per former RCCL employee in another thread)  

 

Call it whatever makes you feel better. The end result remains the same.

Your playing word games. 

Tips are tips. Pay is pay. The percentage they receive from each is not the issue with anyone in this conversation.

[fizzywm]

4 minutes ago, RyderJ201 said:

Your playing word games. 

Tips are tips. Pay is pay. The percentage they receive from each is not the issue with anyone in this conversation.

Tips are part of the employees’ pay. We all know this.

[RyderJ201]

3 minutes ago, fizzywm said:

Tips are part of the employees’ pay. We all know this.

Tips are in addition to pay. When working in a tipped position. Not a non tipped position.

Edited November 10, 2023 by RyderJ201

[UNCFanatik]

15 minutes ago, fizzywm said:

I’m 100% in agreement with this.

 

As am I

 

Royal raise fares and stop tipping culture and let the market sort it out

But we all know they wont. 

[tottenhamfc]

2 minutes ago, RyderJ201 said:

Tips are in addition to pay. When working in a tipped position. Not a non tipped position.

In restaurants in Canada the “unseen” are tipped out by the servers. They ARE a part of the tipped position. If a server didnt tip out the unseen employees would make their life miserable believe me. I have had three daughters who worked in the restaurant business.