Can I skip a port on an NCL Dawn cruise?

[Arizonee]

Our NCL cruise ship has day 3 in Germany, then day 4 at sea, then day 5 at another port in Germany. So far, NCL customer service says we can not skip the sea day and rejoin the ship on day 5. Why not? If I missed the ship accidentally, wouldn’t I get to rejoin at my own expense at day 5 anyways? I’d love to spend the time in Germany instead of at sea. (US citizen). Thank you.

 

[Asawi]

I THINK it has to do with immigration clearance. To stay in Germany instead of returning to the ship you need to be cleared by immigration. A somewhat different procedure than just visiting for the day. Something they do not plan for. If it happens by accident it happens, so to speak.
I¨m not saying the CAN'T make those arrangements, but they may not be willing to.

[GeezerCouple]

Part of the issue may involve whether you would even have permission to "arrive in Germany and *stay* there" as a tourist rather than as a cruise ship passenger, where you are always there as part of the cruise.

 

Keep in mind that *usually*, when one gets off a cruise ship at an interim port, there may be some sorts of "immigration/customs".  But compare that with when one arrives at a foreign airport:  There are often questions about "how long are you planning to stay", "Where will you be staying", "What is the purpose of your visit", etc.

Walking off a cruise ship and entering the port and then the "city/country" is quite different, and there may *not* be any regular "immigrations/customs" personnel on duty...  Or, depending upon the port, maybe there are.  NCL would probably need to run interference on this to find out or to make it happen if possible.

 

There may not be appropriate immigrations officials to process someone who is *not* planning to leave with the ship when it sails.

(And don't underestimate what might be involved, depending upon location, when staying behind because one "missed the ship"...  That's not a "back door" way to arrive and *stay* in a country without going through regular international arrivals procedures.)

 

GC

[www3traveler]

I do not think so.  If you miss getting on a ship accidently, you would be required to make your way home at your  expense and NOT get any of your cruise money back.  In addition, that particular cruise ship Captain could fined.

 

Not worth the risk.

 

There are lots and lots of reliable tour companies including river cruise companies that could offer very interesting tours of Germany.

[Anoynmous Phoenix]

NCL actually arrange tours or accept tours that allow you to leave at one port and join at another, Egypt, Israel and Chile/Peru, so it can happen.   Keep pushing and make it happen but make sure you have the permission IN WRITING!!

 

Missing the ship is a VERY different kettle of fish!!   Your cabin is cleared with everything given to the port contact and what @www3traveler says is what will happen.

 

Not only is the Captain (cruise line) .fined the Cruise Line will take you to court to get the fine back.

 

 

[hallasm]

Where do you board the ship? Immediately there is no Schengen 'immigration problem' in that you stay ashore and meet your ship in the following port two days later - you are already 'legally' in the Schengen area - but that is something NCL decides or perhaps the ship's captain.

Since it is not possible in the US, it is not certain that your local NCL rep knows the correct answer when it comes to Germany/Schengen.

My immediate expectation is that it is possible.

[BirdTravels]

5 hours ago, Arizonee said:

Our NCL cruise ship has day 3 in Germany, then day 4 at sea, then day 5 at another port in Germany. So far, NCL customer service says we can not skip the sea day and rejoin the ship on day 5. Why not? If I missed the ship accidentally, wouldn’t I get to rejoin at my own expense at day 5 anyways? I’d love to spend the time in Germany instead of at sea. (US citizen). Thank you.

You really want to miss departure, keeping thousands of people waiting for you. And eventually, the Captain making the hard choice to take the gangways and leave. Then the cruise line spends thousands of dollars in fuel because they have to sail faster to the next port. 
 

I think that if anyone intentionally missed departure, their property should be dumped at the next port (I would really like it to be thrown overboard, but that is not eco friendly) and they should be banned from cruising for life. 

 

[TheDawg79]

This would not be a wise decision. You would technically be an illegal visitor to the country once the gangway goes up and you can be in the hook for any fines incurred by the cruise line. 

[kitkat343]

My tour guide in Roatan, Honduras worked for Carnival.  When they stopped in Roatan he decided on the spur of the moment to just quit and go home.  The Honduran government had a law that prohibited cruise ships from leaving unless everyone - passenger and crew, even their own citizens - were accounted for.  The ship was held, Carnival tracked him down at his parents' home, made him sign documents that proved he quit and banned him from working there for life.  I don't know how many ports refuse to allow ships to leave without everyone, but I'd read that was the rule in Russia (I didn't return to the ship anywhere near late there so I have no idea if that's true).  But I think letting a passenger return to a ship depends on local laws and the captain's discretion so you would be risking being thrown off the cruise altogether unless you can get permission in advance.  I agree it would be nice to stay in Germany an extra day if it is allowed, and best of luck getting permission to do so.  

Edited November 11, 2023 by kitkat343

[Arizonee]

4 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

You really want to miss departure, keeping thousands of people waiting for you. And eventually, the Captain making the hard choice to take the gangways and leave. Then the cruise line spends thousands of dollars in fuel because they have to sail faster to the next port. 
 

I think that if anyone intentionally missed departure, their property should be dumped at the next port (I would really like it to be thrown overboard, but that is not eco friendly) and they should be banned from cruising for life. 

 

That is not my intention at all.  I am asking if it is possible to skip a port, and if it's not possible, why not.   I was hoping not to be cyber bullied due to my lack of travel knowledge.  

[Trevor Fountain]

4 hours ago, Arizonee said:

 

That is not my intention at all.  I am asking if it is possible to skip a port, and if it's not possible, why not.   I was hoping not to be cyber bullied due to my lack of travel knowledge.  

Welcome to CC. I think if your request to rejoin the ship ay a later port was to become widespread, it would be a logistical nightmare for the cruise company. 

Maybe if you wanted to end your cruise in Germany, that could be reasonable, but a cruise is a journey that stops at various ports along the way. It is not a hop on hop off service.

[Asawi]

Once onboard you MAY be able to make arrangements. Dealing with customer service reps before the cruise is less likely to work. Good Luck!  

(And I don't know how anyone could have gotten the idea that you might be planning to just not appear and stay ashore. But this is CC. People can be on the confrontational side at times...)

[9265359]

12 hours ago, Asawi said:

I THINK it has to do with immigration clearance.

It certainly does.

 

The full EU rules are here EUR-Lex - 32016R0399 - EN - EUR-Lex (europa.eu) and the Art 2 definition of cruise ship is - 

‘cruise ship’ means a ship which follows a given itinerary in accordance with a predetermined programme, which includes a programme of tourist activities in the various ports, and which normally neither takes passengers on nor allows passengers to disembark during the voyage;

and the checks on cruise ships are different and more relaxed compared to checks on people arriving to stay via aircraft, ferries, trains, buses, etc. because of that and the information that the cruise line provides in advance.

 

11 hours ago, Anoynmous Phoenix said:

Missing the ship is a VERY different kettle of fish!!   Your cabin is cleared with everything given to the port contact and what @www3traveler says is what will happen.

 

That might happen where you are, but I have seen many occasions on European cruises when people have missed departure - it seems to happen most at Civitavecchia with people who made their own way to Rome being late back because of the complexities of needing to link together multiple forms of public transport which some people are not used to.

 

However the passengers just make their way to the next port, which is usually in Italy and embark again there, usually looking a bit bedraggle, tired, and a little poorer having had to pay for accommodation and taxis or trains.

 

If the cabin was cleared and the contents handed over to the port staff, then for a ship that is already due to depart do you think the captain is going to want to delay another hour or more?

 

Emptying the cabin is a real hassle for the ship because it has to be done carefully and under supervision to ensure the company can rebut any claim of damaged or missing items.

 

And that I experienced on a recent cruise where yet again there were passengers who were going to be late back from Rome because they had missed the train.

 

However they phoned the ship to let them know and when they were due to arrive and the captain decided to delay departure 90 minutes. Why did he do so, well it was because the next stop was Valetta in Malta for final disembarkation and waiting 90 minutes was less hassle than clearing the cabin to offload the contents in Civitavecchia which would have delayed departure by that time anyway. And if they hadn't offloaded in Civitavecchia but cleared the cabin during the next sea day then they were going to have fun dealing with the authorities in Malta offloading those bags and repatriating them to their owners who would have probably just flown home from Rome rather than trying to catch the ship in Malta.

 

11 hours ago, Anoynmous Phoenix said:

the Cruise Line will take you to court to get the fine back.

  

9 hours ago, TheDawg79 said:

and you can be in the hook for any fines incurred by the cruise line. 

 

It would be interesting to see where that provision exists in the cruise booking terms and conditions, and if it did then anyone doing a self-guided trip from the ship is taking a very very big gamble if they are accidentally late.

 

5 hours ago, Arizonee said:

 

That is not my intention at all.  I am asking if it is possible to skip a port, and if it's not possible, why not.   I was hoping not to be cyber bullied due to my lack of travel knowledge.  

 

Yes, there did seem to be an awful lot of people leaping all over you, but it was an awful lot of people who didn't seem to have any knowledge themselves.

 

Asking the question of the cruise company was the correct thing to do - and if they say 'no' then no it is.

 

And obviously deliberately being back late and causing hassle for the captain and their crew is not acceptable, and from everything you said that was not your intention, but the 'world will fall on your head' doomsayers... well I suggest that they actually do some research before typing.

[John Bull]

Trust me,  I know my stuff 🙂.

 

There is nothing illegal in getting off a ship in one German port and re-boarding in another German port - you will not be leaving the country so even the Schengen open-borders arrangements aren't necessary.

.EU law, mentioned earlier in this thread, is irrelevant - it only applies to travel between EU countries. The OP won't be leaving Germany, so only German laws apply.

It has nothing to do with immigration or customs, and the cruise line would not be in breach of any cabotage laws.

To repeat, there is nothing illegal in what the OP wants to do.

 

Playing catch-up is something we've done in several countries, with the OK of the cruise line.

The major risk is if the ship fails to make the following port, for a variety of reasons like weather, mechanical issue or industrial action. Unlikely, but the consequences could be expensive travel to the port after that, especially if it's on the other side of the ocean.

 

Many folk leave a ship before its final port - for instance those who leave the ship in Le Havre or Cherbourg in order to spend a few days in Paris before flying home from there, rather than docking next day in Southampton. A little more complicated than Germany / Germany but not a big deal.

Again, done with the OK of the cruise line.

 

The fly in the ointment is NCL

NCL do seem to be much less flexible than most cruise lines.

For instance altho most cruise lines allow cruisers to leave the ship in Le Havre instead of next day at cruise-end in Southampton, NCL do not. Many folk have tried -and failed - to get NCL's permission.

Regardless of what's legal & what isn't, the cruise line has the right to impose restrictions.

 

Simply failing to re-board at the first German port without permission could be very problematic for you and the cruise line. For instance, if a passenger fails to return the crew normally take important documents such as passports from the missing passengers' cabin safe & hand them to their port agent before sailing, so that the late arriving passenger isn't stranded.

 

So unless you can get NCL's OK I fear you'll not be able to carry-thru what sounds like a very sensible & worthwhile plan.

 

JB 🙂

 

 

[9265359]

9 minutes ago, John Bull said:

EU law, mentioned earlier in this thread, is irrelevant - it only applies to travel between EU countries.

 

EU law certainly does apply to travel into the EU from outside the EU not just travel between EU countries!

 

And so it is relevant if the ship is starting and ending its journey from a non-EU country, such as the UK, with port stops in EU countries.

[John Bull]

20 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

 

EU law certainly does apply to travel into the EU from outside the EU not just travel between EU countries!

 

And so it is relevant if the ship is starting and ending its journey from a non-EU country, such as the UK, with port stops in EU countries.

 

No - the start & finish points of the cruise are irrelevant, only the two ports involved are relevant.

The question in this thread is whether EU law applies to travel within Germany. Which it does not. 

 

Yes, EU law  - more  accurately in this context, Schengen law - applies if the OP wanted to leave the ship at either of the German ports and fly to outside the Schengen area.   But that's no big deal, they'd then pass thro immigration at their German and destination airports. 

 

JB 🙂

[chengkp75]

While the mention of fines for the Captain and cruise line only apply to the US, there are some cabotage laws that may make it illegal for the OP to do what he/she wants.

 

EU cabotage law precludes a non-EU flag vessel from domestically transporting a passenger from one port in a member nation directly to another port in the same nation.  So, If the port before the one the OP wants to get off in, is in Germany, that would constitute transportation from that first German port to another German port, where the OP disembarked.  Hence domestic transportation.  Similarly, if the port after the one the OP wants to reboard at, is also in Germany, that too would be considered domestic transportation, from the port where the OP re-embarked to the next German port.  This situation is not likely, but it could happen, and can happen in any EU nation.  An EU flagged vessel (say Holland, or Italy) can transport a passenger between ports in one EU nation, but a non-EU flag vessel cannot.  And so, yes, EU law does affect travel within an EU nation.

Edited November 12, 2023 by chengkp75

[9265359]

4 hours ago, John Bull said:

 

No - the start & finish points of the cruise are irrelevant, only the two ports involved are relevant.

The question in this thread is whether EU law applies to travel within Germany. Which it does not. 

 

Yes, EU law  - more  accurately in this context, Schengen law - applies if the OP wanted to leave the ship at either of the German ports and fly to outside the Schengen area.   But that's no big deal, they'd then pass thro immigration at their German and destination airports. 

 

The start point is relevant because it determines whether the cruise ship qualifies for cruise ship treatment for passengers entering the Schengen area as covered by EU law for EU ports - there is no such thing as "Schengen law" - the law applying to countries in the Schengen area will either be the EU law for EU countries or the laws that those counties in Schengen but not in the EU have enacted for those Schengen rules.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by 9265359

[John Bull]

55 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

 

The start point is relevant because it determines whether the cruise ship qualifies for cruise ship treatment for passengers entering the Schengen area as covered by EU law for EU ports - there is no such thing as "Schengen law" - the law applying to countries in the Schengen area will either be the EU law for EU countries or the laws that those counties in Schengen but not in the EU have enacted for those Schengen rules.

 

 

 

 You are over-complicating a simple situation.

Agreed, there's no such thing as Schengen law, they are indeed EU laws but laws that affect travel to or from a Schengen country. But we are answering a question from a cruiser, not a European Court of Law. Schengen laws gets the  point over without the unnecessary complications..

 

Plain & simple - if the OP gets the OK from the cruise line they're good to go.

But that's far less likely with NCL than with other cruise lines.

 

That's all I've got to say on the subject.

 

JB 🙂

[9265359]

2 hours ago, John Bull said:

You are over-complicating a simple situation.

Agreed, there's no such thing as Schengen law, they are indeed EU laws but laws that affect travel to or from a Schengen country. But we are answering a question from a cruiser, not a European Court of Law. Schengen laws gets the  point over without the unnecessary complications..

 

I am glad you now understand that you were wrong regarding 'Schengen law' but the point was that you indicated the law as it related to the starting point of the cruise was irrelevant - it isn't it is entirely relevant.

 

2 hours ago, John Bull said:

Plain & simple - if the OP gets the OK from the cruise line they're good to go.

But that's far less likely with NCL than with other cruise lines.

 

And it is relevant because the law is one of the factors which will influence a cruise line's decision as to whether they will accept or decline the request, so actually knowing the law is quite helpful when presenting an argument where you are seeking to persuade someone.

[cmph]

I won't even begin to attempt to wade into what's allowed/not allowed by German/EU/etc. laws. However, I do think there is something weird with the way NCL handles German ports. We had 2 different German ports in a row on the Dawn this summer, and we had to have passports with us when we got off the ship at one port but not the other. It made no sense to me. We weren't overnight in either of them. So maybe there is more to the story with the German ports. 

[IAcruising]

20 hours ago, Arizonee said:

 

That is not my intention at all.  I am asking if it is possible to skip a port, and if it's not possible, why not.   I was hoping not to be cyber bullied due to my lack of travel knowledge.  

 

Well, you suggested "accidentally" missing the ship, affecting every.single.other.person on the cruise.

 

That's going to get you a bit of negative feedback. Welcome to CC.

 

[9265359]

8 hours ago, cmph said:

I won't even begin to attempt to wade into what's allowed/not allowed by German/EU/etc. laws. However, I do think there is something weird with the way NCL handles German ports. We had 2 different German ports in a row on the Dawn this summer, and we had to have passports with us when we got off the ship at one port but not the other. It made no sense to me. We weren't overnight in either of them. So maybe there is more to the story with the German ports. 

 

Most likely different people produced the template port details back in the mists of time, and it is only occasionally noticed when those two ports appear together on a schedule and those different stock details are pulled up.

 

The actual German law is that if you are aged over 16 in Germany you have to possess a photo ID card such as a passport, but you don’t actually have to carry it with you just be able to produce it.

 

Therefore the ‘must take it with you’ writer was likely thinking of the hassle of getting it from the ship if you hadn’t taken it, and the ‘no need’ writer was more relaxed.

[Smitheroo]

On 11/11/2023 at 2:56 PM, Asawi said:

I THINK it has to do with immigration clearance. To stay in Germany instead of returning to the ship you need to be cleared by immigration. A somewhat different procedure than just visiting for the day. Something they do not plan for. If it happens by accident it happens, so to speak.
I¨m not saying the CAN'T make those arrangements, but they may not be willing to.

good explanation, makes sense 

[Smitheroo]

On 11/11/2023 at 4:12 PM, www3traveler said:

I do not think so.  If you miss getting on a ship accidently, you would be required to make your way home at your  expense and NOT get any of your cruise money back.  In addition, that particular cruise ship Captain could fined.

 

Not worth the risk.

 

There are lots and lots of reliable tour companies including river cruise companies that could offer very interesting tours of Germany.

I have read accounts of people being allowed to catch up with their ship at a later port. This would be in cases of accidentally missing the ship. Trip insurance often covers this expense.