Spa 18% gratuity misleading

[Love dubai]

Chatting to someone onboard who had just had a treatment. She said the staff member had stated that the previous Saturday there was a queue waiting at the desk in the Spa to have the gratuity removed - some very angry stating 18% a disgrace!

 

The staff member then explained that although they had tried to explain the new system but that no one would listen and consequently all the treatments that had the gratuity refunded meant the staff members had worked for nothing.

 

It appears Spa company wanted to increase prices and Seabourn said not happy about it. New system is that  is NO spa employee receives any basic salary and that their earnings are now totally from the 18% gratuity figure on the bill with the Spa Manager taking a cut of that.

 

She said under the old system they also received tips but now no one gives any tips as they believe they are giving an 18% tip.

 

Staff have asked that the 18% be renamed but company has refused.

 

Appalling really that they receive no basic salary. Thought people who use the Spa ought to understand the new system as heard many British people onboard stating they had refused to give an 18% tip.

[frantic36]

I encountered this in September. I had given the technician a large Euro tip and then got hit by a 22% gratuity to my account. When I queried it I was told that the Spa Corporate had decided to automatically apply it to all treatments due to some not tipping or tipping only 10% which is more like what us Australians and I think UK tend to do. I do usually tip more like 18% but I will admit since I think the Spa prices quite high and then to have 22 or 18% added on top of that I don't tip extra anymore.

 

If the tip is the only way the staff get paid I would be appalled.

 

When I get my nails done in Perth I pay around AU$60 and no tip required but onboard I pay US$90 + 18% tip. Unfortunately because we have to travel so far I take longer cruises so I need to get my nails done at least once per trip. It might be a first world problem but it is sad the subcontract Spa owners have decided to go this way. 

[Isklaar]

45 minutes ago, frantic36 said:

 

 

If the tip is the only way the staff get paid I would be appalled.

 

 

 

Same here, If what has been posted is accurate I'm appalled. I'm not suggesting that @Love dubai is reporting inaccurately here, but I can see that there is a possibility that the situation has been misunderstood between the other passenger and the spa staff member. So I would like clarification/confirmation. (I'm aware that the spa staff relies heavily on commissions from product sales)

 

Can anyone tell me which company operates the spa nowadays? 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Isklaar

[Love dubai]

1 hour ago, Isklaar said:

 

Same here, If what has been posted is accurate I'm appalled. I'm not suggesting that @Love dubai is reporting inaccurately here, but I can see that there is a possibility that the situation has been misunderstood between the other passenger and the spa staff member. So I would like clarification/confirmation. (I'm aware that the spa staff relies heavily on commissions from product sales)

 

Can anyone tell me which company operates the spa nowadays? 

 

 

I called in at the Spa this morning to check what I had been told.

 

One of the masseuse I know well confirmed they now receive NO basic salary and all monies paid to them come from the 18% “gratuity” and they had requested the word gratuity not be used as it is NOT a gratuity and been told no by Head Office.

 

This is nothing to do with people not tipping - this was a decision to increase overall prices and felt people would not be happy and thus came up with this “creative “ way for them to get their price increase and the staff to take the fallout!

 

Staff very upset but cannot do anything and say many customers now challenging/ refusing to pay tip and this they will receive no payment for the work done.

 

Same company still manage all Spas on ships,

 

 

 

 

[saminina]

So spa staff will swim off ships.   Beyond being well informed of the policy, it really is not any of my business.  Last two haircuts, I wanted to go back next day and reduce the gratuity.   The hair cutters I liked returned to Azamara.  Quality staff will disappear if not worth the time spent on board.  Same for passengers.

[FlyerTalker]

8 hours ago, frantic36 said:

Unfortunately because we have to travel so far I take longer cruises so I need to get my nails done at least once per trip.

 

Lots of places to have a quality job done onshore.  For example, right at the Singapore Harbour Centre cruise terminal, there are a couple of excellent shops where Mrs FT has had her nails done.  Ditto with other cities around the globe, including Lisbon, Barcelona, Dubai, Buenos Aires and more.

 

You don't have to use the ship spa.

 

 

[Isklaar]

1 hour ago, Love dubai said:

I called in at the Spa this morning to check what I had been told.

 

One of the masseuse I know well confirmed they now receive NO basic salary and all monies paid to them come from the 18% “gratuity” and they had requested the word gratuity not be used as it is NOT a gratuity and been told no by Head Office.

 

This is nothing to do with people not tipping - this was a decision to increase overall prices and felt people would not be happy and thus came up with this “creative “ way for them to get their price increase and the staff to take the fallout!

 

Staff very upset but cannot do anything and say many customers now challenging/ refusing to pay tip and this they will receive no payment for the work done.

 

Same company still manage all Spas on ships,

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much for checking. What a horrible situation for the staff.

[Love dubai]

Just now, saminina said:

So spa staff will swim off ships.   Beyond being well informed of the policy, it really is not any of my business.  Last two haircuts, I wanted to go back next day and reduce the gratuity.   The hair cutters I liked returned to Azamara.  Quality staff will disappear if not worth the time spent on board.  Same for passengers.

I think it is peoples business if the system now means that by reducing a gratuity people are not even able to obtain an ok salary 

[saminina]

It is a horrible situation for the staff and an unpleasant position for the passengers.   Neither are powerless in numbers.  SB should not be sitting on the fence.

[sfvoyage]

5 hours ago, Love dubai said:

I called in at the Spa this morning to check what I had been told.

 

One of the masseuse I know well confirmed they now receive NO basic salary and all monies paid to them come from the 18% “gratuity” and they had requested the word gratuity not be used as it is NOT a gratuity and been told no by Head Office.

 

This "no basic salary" practice is nothing new.  Quite a few years ago (6 or more), I was told by the spa staff that they receive no base pay.  Other than free room and board, their only remuneration consists of a cut of the treatment price plus tips, and thus their pay is highly variable.  In fact, they were bracing for "starving" on the following voyage (a crossing), because they said that some voyages typically attract a clientele who don't tend to patronize the spa.

 

Slavery at sea comes to mind...

 

 

[Robisan]

39 minutes ago, sfvoyage said:

In fact, they were bracing for "starving" on the following voyage (a crossing), because they said that some voyages typically attract a clientele who don't tend to patronize the spa.

What a depressing choice: Reward this abhorrent business model by patronizing the spa or boycott the spa and further 'starve' the staff who are being exploited.

[USN59-79]

Not sure I understand this business model.  A passenger pays $90. plus 18% or $16.20 to have her nails done and the worker gets the $16.20 for her work.  Who gets the $90.?

[saminina]

5 hours ago, sfvoyage said:

This "no basic salary" practice is nothing new. ..

20 hours ago, Love dubai said:

Chatting to someone onboard who had just had a treatment. She said the staff member had stated that the previous Saturday there was a queue waiting at the desk in the Spa to have the gratuity removed - some very angry stating 18% a disgrace!

 

Rather foolish of me to buy into a third party story as though it is new policy.    If this pay scheme was created after contracts were signed, shame on spa operator.   I'm tending toward "much ado about nothing."   Who'd have thought such a story could be created in the spa area?
 

[alexandria]

18 hours ago, sfvoyage said:

This "no basic salary" practice is nothing new.  Quite a few years ago (6 or more), I was told by the spa staff that they receive no base pay.  Other than free room and board, their only remuneration consists of a cut of the treatment price plus tips, and thus their pay is highly variable.  In fact, they were bracing for "starving" on the following voyage (a crossing), because they said that some voyages typically attract a clientele who don't tend to patronize the spa.

 

Slavery at sea comes to mind...

 

 

Starvation?  Slavery?

 

My goodness, perhaps I should cancel my upcoming cruise on SB and refrain from patronizing a line that engages in such abhorrent practices...🙄 😉

[whogo]

What was the old system at the spa? "Gratuities are neither required nor expected"?

 

Do spa workers push you to buy product on Seabourn? I assume that is a major source of income for spa workers and the concessionaire on other cruise lines.

[sfvoyage]

1 hour ago, alexandria said:

Starvation?  Slavery?

 

My goodness, perhaps I should cancel my upcoming cruise on SB and refrain from patronizing a line that engages in such abhorrent practices...🙄 😉

Do as you wish!

 

In any case, "starving" was the word the spa staff used, and it's hard not to feel bad for them.

 

This is likely an industry wide practice, Seabourn being in this case the enabler of policies set by its spa concession company (is it still Steiner?)

 

None of us knows how much they make.  If interested, Google gives some data (Glassdoor, Indeed, etc) for spa staff on cruise ships, but who knows what is accurate and up-to-date?

[Hlitner]

I am not sure if Steiner still staffs the SB spas (but the Steiner folks still list SB as a client).  Looking at their online recruitment spiel, it hint that compensation is commission based.  I do question the "slave" comment since the folks who work in these jobs must seek out the work, go through training, and want the job.  They are not forced to work on ships and can simply leave at the end of their contract (if they leave during their contract, they will likely have to pay their own transportation home).  

 

So where does all the money go?  Simply a partnership between the cruise lines and the Spa company,  They split the proceeds (according to their secretive contract).  Bottom line is that these are businesses (the spa company and the cruise line) and need to operate at a healthy profit to make the space allocation worthwhile.

 

Hank

[sfvoyage]

I found this YouTube video which may be of interest to some.  It's probably not on a Seabourn ship and is from 2020.  Just one data point.

 

 

[USN59-79]

6 hours ago, whogo said:

What was the old system at the spa? "Gratuities are neither required nor expected"?

 

Do spa workers push you to buy product on Seabourn? I assume that is a major source of income for spa workers and the concessionaire on other cruise lines.

I am wondering about the policy also.  We will be first time cruisers on SB in two months and this is the first I have heard of 18% gratuities onboard.  When the literature from SB states "Gratuities are neither required or expected" there was no * saying "except at the spa".  Are there other places on the ship where gratuities are expected and required?

[frantic36]

2 hours ago, USN59-79 said:

Are there other places on the ship where gratuities are expected and required?

No. It is only in the Spa as they are a seperate entity to Seabourn. 

[whirldcruzrs]

The 18% gratuity was clearly stated AND the nail tech also pointed it out, but she was so good that I added $$ tip.  I hope it goes all to her.  In retrospect, perhaps I should have handed her cash.

[Utopia1]

Does anyone know if the ADDITIONAL gratuity added in the beauty salon for hair and nails goes entirely to the operator?

[whystayhome]

I had my nails done this summer on the Quest. The tech told me all she gets is the 18%. Some days the techs don’t have much business and may earn $10 or even nothing.   It was $80 for the gel manicure + $20 to have the old gel removed + 18% tip.  So, $118 for a manicure, which took about half an hour.  I had a £10 note left over from the England portion of the cruise, so I gave her that, too, as I was feeling sorry for her.

linda

 

[jjs217]

On 12/17/2023 at 9:08 AM, whogo said:

What was the old system at the spa? "Gratuities are neither required nor expected"?

 

Do spa workers push you to buy product on Seabourn? I assume that is a major source of income for spa workers and the concessionaire on other cruise lines.

I will never go to the spa again on Seabourn.  The push to buy products after my massage was so intense that the relaxation received was completely gone by the time the ordeal was over.  I wish they wouldn't do that, but if they make a commission then I can see why.

[saminina]

4 hours ago, whystayhome said:

 I had a £10 note left over from the England portion of the cruise, so I gave her that, too, as I was feeling sorry for her.

Multiply 5 times a day and the feeling sorry begins to wear thin.  It is not a bad gig.

Edited December 18, 2023 by saminina