Retreat Concept

[Random Cruizer]

My first Celebrity cruise was on the Equinox in the summer of '22, then Apex, then the Beyond in the summer of '23, and I just finished a cruise to Mexico on the Summit last weekend.  The Equinox hadn't been fully revolutionized, so you could walk all the way around the top deck--I didn't really notice the Retreat cutting into my enjoyment.  On the Edge-class ships, I had family in Sky Suites while I was not.  The ships were beautiful, but it really bugged me to have the whole front of the ship closed off on the upper decks.  It bugged me on the Summit, too, and it's fully revolutionized, so the Retreat intruded on my fun more than it had on the Equinox.

 

The whole concept bugged me more than I thought it would.  Suites don't bother me and special restaurants for different classes don't bother me--let folks who can pay more buy bigger cabins and their own restaurants.  But it really bothered me that whole parts of the ship weren't open to all.

 

How widespread is this in the cruising industry?  I've only been on Celebrity so far, but I think I'll be looking elsewhere.  Even BEING in the Retreat wouldn't help--it would still bug me that others were being excluded.  Are other lines going in this direction, or just Celebrity so far?

[mahasamatman]

This is quite common in the industry.

[tjunmin]

You are referring to the ship-within-a-ship concept, and many cruise lines have adopted it, such as NCL (The Haven), MSC (Yacht Club), Cunard (Grill Suites), Celebrity (The Retreat), Royal Caribbean (Star Class), Dream (The Palace) and so on.

Celebrity is actually playing catch-up with the E class ships, and retrofitting the older M and S class ships to incorporate the concept. I believe NCL, Cunard and MSC were at the forefront implementing this concept.

[Winemaker_1]

There is always another 'gated community' within the gated community.  Life on land is no different.

[LB_NJ]

57 minutes ago, tjunmin said:

I believe NCL, Cunard and MSC were at the forefront implementing this concept.

 

For historical reasons I think Cunard may have predated them all.

 

I am not sure if they do this on the high end cruise lines.

[George C]

I love retreat on Edge class also MSC yacht club, I doubt we will book anything else. 

[hcat]

sep areas never bothered us on Cunard or E Class,   but on Celeb the space could have been put to better use..like a  much nicer spa area with a real T pool and outdoor space ;  and a nice area ( Retreat) open  to  all with billiards, darts and games and comfy seating. Maybe craft beers lite bites!

 

. When we sailed in  a Retreat cabin on Beyond we  thought  the Retreat area was a large wasted  sterile space;  and the outdoor area was  inadequate for enjoyment other than on a port day.  (With the move ups now filling suites, it will become more crowded.)

[mahasamatman]

11 minutes ago, hcat said:

(With the move ups now filling suites, it will become more crowded.)

 

Ships are going out full. Whether it's from purchased suites or move-ups makes no difference.

[hcat]

2 minutes ago, mahasamatman said:

 

Ships are going out full. Whether it's from purchased suites or move-ups makes no difference.

true.. its the full load that will make it more crowded in certain " private"  spaces regardless of source.

 

..Luminae was plenty big but  the suite outdoor area had a small pool, and limited lunch seating. 

 

We are  fine going back to other categories,  but think  spaces on E Class , which we enjoy, could have been planned better..  Hoping to see some new ideas on ASCENT!

[RTShaker]

It annoyed me that the whole front viewing area on the Millennium was off limits and barely used.

[Shiba_Lover]

It's no different to anywhere else.  Lots of hotels have executive lounges, resorts have special areas and pools for those in suites and top rooms.  Airline lounges for certain passengers......  Sports stadiums have club level and suites and boxes while most people are in regular seats and they can't go on those levels.  Focus on the areas that you get to enjoy and not the ones you don't.  I can still enjoy the baseball game from my regular seat and not care that I don't get to go onto the club level.  

[Alsmez]

Virgin Voyages also does this with Richard's Rooftop, although I didn't find that it hampered my enjoyment of the ship in any way since their ships' layout is already choppy and full of dead ends.

[markeb]

It really annoys me that I can't go through the curtain to the front of the plane unless I have a ticket for Business (or on some airlines still First Class). Or that I can't go to the club level or a suite at a baseball game. (Actually it does annoy me that the Chairman's Trophy for the 2019 World Series is in on the Club Level. But it's the least expensive upgrade in the park.)

 

I do have access to Marriott lounges and most United/Star Alliance lounges. But even there I may not be able to get on the club floor unless that's where the lounge is. They could have walled off the whole Retreat (all the suites, Luminae, etc.) and required key access; they didn't. And on Equinox the Retreat sundeck at the front of the ship is hot as blazes and the wind whips everything around. If it wasn't the Retreat sundeck I doubt I'd spend more than a minute there. Is it just the notion that you can't go there?

[RTShaker]

36 minutes ago, markeb said:

It really annoys me that I can't go through the curtain to the front of the plane unless I have a ticket for Business (or on some airlines still First Class). Or that I can't go to the club level or a suite at a baseball game. (Actually it does annoy me that the Chairman's Trophy for the 2019 World Series is in on the Club Level. But it's the least expensive upgrade in the park.)

But....were those things always like that or were they removed from your access as were the outside areas? Hot and windy or not,  that was the quiet go-to spot for me.

[markeb]

1 minute ago, RTShaker said:

But....were those things always like that or were they removed from your access as were the outside areas? Hot and windy or not,  that was the quiet go-to spot for me.

Does it matter? They’re gone. They’ve convinced us (including me) that it’s worth something. If it was your quiet go to place, that sucks. But it’s not a great place and I never saw anyone hanging out there before it became the Retreat. 

[DaKahuna]

3 hours ago, RTShaker said:

It annoyed me that the whole front viewing area on the Millennium was off limits and barely used.

 

 Why do people keep repeating this untruth.  The Sky Lounge on Deck 11 provides a tremendous front viewing and is enclosed from the elements.  We find the Retreat Sky Desks too windy for a relaxing experience when the ship is traveling along at 16 - 18 knots, especially when sailing into the wind.

 

The same is true of deck 14 on the S-class ships.  

 

The E-Class is the only class where there is no true whole front viewing areas outside of the Retreat Sundeck. 

 

Edited January 12 by DaKahuna

[Random Cruizer]

Thanks so much for all the info! I have a lot to learn about cruising, clearly. 🙂 

[Whinenowine]

12 hours ago, DaKahuna said:

 

 Why do people keep repeating this untruth.  The Sky Lounge on Deck 11 provides a tremendous front viewing and is enclosed from the elements.  

 

 

Uh-oh....now you've gone and opened up the door to complaints around the Kids/Teens Club cannibalizing the port side part of the Sky Lounge on Millie...!  

😅

[Sox Fan Cruiser]

Of course they are going to put what is perceived as the best part of the ship where people have to pay more money to be there.  I actually prefer the back of the ship!

 

And Princess is (finally in my eyes) catching up with everyone else.  The new Sun Class ships now have a suite deck area, dinning room, and lounge.  And they are at the back of the ship where I like to be!!

[RTShaker]

14 hours ago, DaKahuna said:

 

 Why do people keep repeating this untruth.  The Sky Lounge on Deck 11 provides a tremendous front viewing and is enclosed from the elements.  We find the Retreat Sky Desks too windy for a relaxing experience when the ship is traveling along at 16 - 18 knots, especially when sailing into the wind.

 

The same is true of deck 14 on the S-class ships.  

 

The E-Class is the only class where there is no true whole front viewing areas outside of the Retreat Sundeck. 

 

Sorry. I guess I should have prefaced with "outdoor".

[bigbenboys]

19 hours ago, RTShaker said:

It annoyed me that the whole front viewing area on the Millennium was off limits and barely used.

Are you saying that X removed access to Sky Lounge on Millie?

[QuestionEverything]

Hence why we cancelled the mass cruise lines and moved to premium and luxury. These lines ships are open to all guests with few exceptions of some lounges located within the interior of the ships.

On Oceania Insignia, did a 17 day in August of Iceland, Greenland, Nfld, Nova Scotia, Bar Harbour and the Cape Cod Canal - and spent from 3 to 6:30 most days in the forward lounge adorning the scenery while at 4 pm having a true high tea and 5 pm having happy hour. Never moved from my chair. Every one could participate folks.

 

I have been cruising since 1989, yes, and when cruising started, John Ivison of Carnival whined that the transatlantic lines like Cunard were using segregation and that modern cruising would not do that.

Fast forward, it is indeed the mass cruise lines that are segregationists. On Cunard (Ivison particularly hated Cunard), today one can can go forward and see a forward view. On the QM2 you can go to the outer bridges (below the bridge) and stand there and be beyond the side of the QM2 with the wind in your face, a true ship experience.

 

Hence why I have cancelled any cruise line that denies access to the fundamentals of a ship - outside, forward view etc. 

 

[RichYak]

22 minutes ago, bigbenboys said:

Are you saying that X removed access to Sky Lounge on Millie?

You missed this comment directly above yours.

 

2 hours ago, RTShaker said:

Sorry. I guess I should have prefaced with "outdoor".

 

[Andy_P]

Last year we did a B2B with one week in a Sky Suite and one week in Aqua Class.  Another B2B a year earlier was Aqua Class then Veranda.  Each week I lost privileges based on what I had paid, and I was fine with that.  

[ExArkie]

12 minutes ago, QuestionEverything said:

Hence why we cancelled the mass cruise lines and moved to premium and luxury. These lines ships are open to all guests with few exceptions of some lounges located within the interior of the ships.

On Oceania Insignia, did a 17 day in August of Iceland, Greenland, Nfld, Nova Scotia, Bar Harbour and the Cape Cod Canal - and spent from 3 to 6:30 most days in the forward lounge adorning the scenery while at 4 pm having a true high tea and 5 pm having happy hour. Never moved from my chair. Every one could participate folks.

 

I have been cruising since 1989, yes, and when cruising started, John Ivison of Carnival whined that the transatlantic lines like Cunard were using segregation and that modern cruising would not do that.

Fast forward, it is indeed the mass cruise lines that are segregationists. On Cunard (Ivison particularly hated Cunard), today one can can go forward and see a forward view. On the QM2 you can go to the outer bridges (below the bridge) and stand there and be beyond the side of the QM2 with the wind in your face, a true ship experience.

 

Hence why I have cancelled any cruise line that denies access to the fundamentals of a ship - outside, forward view etc. 

 

The actual amount of outside deck real estate set aside for Grills on Cunard is fairly small compared to Celebrity, although it may be more significant on their upcoming new ship. None of the excluded areas prohibit non-Grills passengers from having substantially the same experience, e.g., the Grills deck on Queen Mary 2 is aft on deck 11. General passenger aft space is open on decks 12, 8, 7, 6, and 5.

 

I found NCL Haven to be much more of a “class system” than Cunard, with Celebrity falling somewhere between the two.