World Cruise on Serenity - Need Info RE: Red Sea Segment

[Roland4]

1 hour ago, nancygp said:

To each his own

 

while we had some very rough weather we still had a very nice cruise

 

Nancy 

I agree! Almost 12 years later, we still talk about it, as recently as last September on Serenity with Jim and Steve! The weather was terrible, but the cruise was great!!

[LoveBora]

7 hours ago, Whipsnade said:

I would stay on as we too love sea days. And then there is the adventure. Sadly I think we would be in the extreme minority. 

As we are going to be on the WC, we would definitely stay on board, as well. Yes, it would be a lot of sea days, but it would be a lot better than being at home doing our own cooking and clean up and making our own beds. My husband is a good butler, but he hasn’t had the expert training that Crystal’s butlers have had🤣. 

[Dog-man]

This was posted by SaltyCroc on the Cunard world voyage thread QM2:

 

The US Dept of Transportation has modified their no sail warning for the Red Sea / Gulf of Aden.  There is now an explicit statement that the order is 'until further notice' and that it will 'not automatically expire'

 

 

[Whipsnade]

Pretty much seals it, doesn’t it. Standing by for notification. 
We are in Cairns  today on Symphony. We had less than 100 pax from Sydney. About a dozen got off here, mostly TAs. Not sure if we will be taking in more here. 
Service and food are even better than OC. NC by far the leader in every category of luxury cruising. We have canceled our Silver Sea bookings over next two years and replaced them with Crystals. Not that we don’t like Silversea but their cuisine is a pale comparison to NC. 

[History&Wine]

1 hour ago, Dog-man said:

This was posted by SaltyCroc on the Cunard world voyage thread QM2:

 

The US Dept of Transportation has modified their no sail warning for the Red Sea / Gulf of Aden.  There is now an explicit statement that the order is 'until further notice' and that it will 'not automatically expire'

 

 

Thanks for posting.  Wonder why the effective date shown on the right ends on January 30 ?

 

[rafinmd]

I think many here know I am pretty much addicted to pondering itinerary possibilities.  I think the last places where passengers may board are:

 

Mumbai April 14

Istanbul May 2, 18 days later

Piraeus May 14, 30 days later

Toulon May 25, 41 days later

 

According to Sea-distances.org these are the travel times from Mumbai at 18 knots:

 

Istanbul 26-days 13 hours

Piraeus 25 days, 20 hours

Toulon  24 days even

 

I'm not convinced Istanbul would be a viable turnaround port with the current political situation but in any case there is no way :Serenity could be there.

 

I think Piraeus is just barely viable, given that there will be some areas where full speed would not be allowed but there might stiill be time for perhaps 3 or maybe 4 stops over the 30 days.  While Crystal sea days are great that;s still a lot over the course of a month.

 

A pretty decent itinerary could be developed for Toulon but I suspect there would be very few people using that as a turnaround port.

 

With a single segment Mumbai to Miami the options for an interesting and unusual itinerary are many and varied (I suggested one earlier in this thread),  I expect the decision will be based in part on the numbers embarking in each port, the availability of ports with appropriate facilities, and the desire to provide full world cruisers the best possible experience.

 

Time will tell.

 

Roy

[kingfoot]

My 2 cents: Here are some plausible scenarios — just making some guesses based on transit times borrowed from other cruise itineraries:

 

Assuming the Red Sea transit is not possible, I imagine Crystal would want to reroute at segment boundaries, the 2 logical departure points from the original schedule are:

    - Perth (March 27)

    - Mumbai (April 15)

 

Assuming Crystal wants to minimize cancelled segments, I think Serenity could make it from Perth to Istanbul (via Capetown) in time for the May 3rd cruise.   It would be pretty much a sprint, but I think doable.  This would cancel only 2 segments.   The other option is deviate in Mumbai targeting Athens on May 14, which I think is also doable, again missing 2 segments.    More leisurely options exist, such as Perth to Athens, but they would cancel at least 3 segments.   The reroute from Mumbai to Miami via Capetown and South America is also possible, potential including some Amazon time, but would cancel 4 segments.

 

These are the options as I see it just based on distances.    Of course, fuel expense, revenue tradeoffs, and all sorts of logistics will figure in as well.    Tough call for all those involved.

[bayonejoe]

Word on the ship is that the new itinerary for WC 24 will be announced in San Diego. So, we will find out soon enough. And the adventure will continue.

[kingfoot]

A little more analysis…  Ignore if you want to just find out the real answer next week!

 

Using the sea distance site Roy pointed out, here are the average speeds necessary to meet up with the Serentity’s planned segment start dates.

 

Perth to Istanbul (37 days):  13 knots

Perth to Athens (48 days):  9.8 knots

Perth to Toulon (59 days): 7.4 knots

Mumbai to Istanbul: (18 days): 24 knots

Mumbai to Athens: (29 days): 16 knots

Mumbai to Toulon: (40 days): 11 knots

 

As a benchmark, the upcoming San Diego to Papeete segment covers approx 5200 nautical miles in 18 days, for an average journey speed of 12 knots.   This is considered an extremely sea-day intensive cruise.

 

Perth to Istanbul or Mumbai to Toulon would both have an average voyage speed in the ball park of San Diego to Papeete, and would provide a similar very sea-day intensive voyage.

 

Roy pointed out Mumbai to Istanbul is physically impossible at 24 knots, I would also bet that Mumbai to Athens is also out — it’s highly unlikely Serenity could sustain 16 knots average over 29 days, while providing a decent guest experience.

 

The issue with Mumbai to Toulon (or Perth to Toulon for that matter) is that you are going to deviate all the way to the Med, only to pick up one segment (Toulon to Miami) which is transatlantic.  So it doesn’t really retain any of Serenity’s Med cruises.

 

If I had to guess, I would say Perth to Istanbul or Perth to Athens are the most likely, but again, overriding business reasons might require a different choice.

 

Edited January 25 by kingfoot

[travelberlin]

I feel very sorry that the Red Sea conflict is going to disturb so much the operations of the new Crystal. It is not easy for the company nor for the crew. I hope that guests affected will be able to get bookings in other itineraries of their choice. For example guests that have booked on Serenity for the Mediterranean could look at the Symphony itineraries there. I am confident the Symphony will cruise in the Mediterranean this year and it has very nice itineraries. 
 

Guests on the full world cruise, which apparently are less than 200, might just continue their cruise independently of which route the Serenity would take. At least if we were on the world cruise, we would just continue. And maybe in the new itineraries there will be interesting ports and overnights in ports. I hope that those itineraries also get the attention of other cruisers who could book them. For example if the ship will go from Cape Town to Brasil or Argentina, maybe South Americans and South Africans will book the new itineraries with a good marketing strategy. There are not many ships along the East South American coast around that time of the year and there could be a demand. I am not sure about the weather though. In any case it is a difficult situation and I wish Crystal sincerely that they manage to overcome the challenges.

 

Ivi

[Whipsnade]

As one who knows NOTHING like most others commenting here I think Mumbai to Toulon makes most sense. Stopping off in Seychelles, Mauritius, Capetown, Ludderitz, Walvis Bay, Senegal, Azores and Canaries. 
Guess we won’t have long to wait to get the real answer. 

[wearesiamese]

Seems like a lot of armchair quarterbacking going on Cruise Critic,and not just in Crystal’s boards.aaah such is life.But has it ever occurred to ‘all that the people at A and K have been around the block a few times,and actually might know something about running a shipping organization?!

[Whipsnade]

A&K actually know very little about ships and cruising. Manfredi d’Ovidio, who owns half founded and ran Silversea for 30 years before he sold it to RCL knows a lot about this business. 
Some of current Crystal staff were here under OC. New execs snatched from other luxury brands mostly Seabourn 

Current pax on board 99. Will rise in next few cruises to around 200. Cruise from Mumbai to Athens has only 65 pax booked. First Med cruise from Athens has close to 400. Easy peasy decision to sacrifice Singapore to Mumbai and Mumbai to Athens in order to pick up first Med cruise. 
I expect an announcement by the time we get to Bali Feb 2. 
Let’s face it, no cruise ships are going to risk Red Sea passage at least in the next few months and maybe longer. 

[MsCrystalina]

It takes a lot of time and planning to add ports and tours to a cruise even with a generous period of time.

Insurance, legal, global and local security situations must be in place.  Find it unlikely that there will be stops on the west coast of Africa.  On the old Crystal 7 or so years ago a Cape Town to Southhampton WC segment was one of best ever! I do not think that itinerary has been repeated by anyone since then. Would expect Cape Town and perhaps one more stop might be feasible. There would be no fresh entertainment. etc.   Going across to SA likely.

All lines are being affected by this. Several months ago, November 2024 journeys thru the Suez to the Emirates and on to Mumbai were cancelled by SS and others.  Although disappointing, earlier changes are easier for all. 

[MsCrystalina]

Oh my- Tempus Fugit-   the W coast African cruise was prior to 2011-   have to remember which state I lived in at the time!!1

[History&Wine]

Whatever Crystal decides I hope they will give those of us already booked some options.  By that I mean accepting the new itinerary or giving us future cruise credits or cash refunds.

 

Was greatly looking forward to Europe. I don’t want to cruise South America again.  

[bayonejoe]

1 hour ago, History&Wine said:

Whatever Crystal decides I hope they will give those of us already booked some options.  By that I mean accepting the new itinerary or giving us future cruise credits or cash refunds.

 

Was greatly looking forward to Europe. I don’t want to cruise South America again.  

+1

no on future cruise credits 

not going there again 

[travelberlin]

Under this circumstances I wonder how much is the liability of the cruise line to give compensation to the clients if they are not willing to take an alternative route. In Germany we call it Force Majeure and under Force Majeure, there is not much the guests can become. Options are: take alternative route or cancel the rest with the corresponding refund. No additional compensation. Airlines for example can cancel flights without any compensation because of Force Majeure. And in some cases they would not even offer an alternative. 
 

Offering itinerary alternatives seem to be reasonable. Refunding the money to those who do not want to do the suggested itineraries seems also adequate. However, I believe the cruise line has the right to cancel ports of calls or change itineraries if the circumstances dictate so.
 

I am sure many affected guests will not like to hear about the itinerary changes but it is not the fault of Crystal, right?

 

Ivi

Edited January 27 by travelberlin

[Worldtraveler22]

On 1/22/2024 at 11:57 AM, mogilevk9 said:

The list so far is:
Royal Caribbean - Silversea

MSC

NCL

Oceania

 

There are numerous large carriers rerouting around Africa including:

Hapag-Lloyd

Maersk

NYK

 

The Carnival brand is still considering their options. 
 

Add Aida.

[Whipsnade]

Force majeure applies in US. No question they can change itinerary. All ships change itineraries all the time. Any compensation they offer is a bonus. 
I will still take cruise credits if they are more than cash. Worked out pretty well with EI. 

[Azulann]

Viking Ocean has two World cruises about five days apart , both heading to NZ and then onward.  Both left LA  after New years. Talk on both ships  that they will probably go around Horn of Africa  and be in London in May. Viking has not officially said what  the new itinerary will be. 

[Whipsnade]

No cruise ships will be heading into the Red Sea anytime soon. Could be six months or longer. Many will dump passengers east of Mumbai and dead head to Med. A few might switch to West Africa itineraries from Asia. Count on defections and grumbling if they do. Personally we like all the West Africa ports especially Senegal. 

[mwj]

On 1/22/2024 at 11:57 AM, mogilevk9 said:

Carnival brand is still considering their options.

https://www.cruisehive.com/costa-cruises-cancels-sailing-just-weeks-before-embarkation/122101

[safarigal]

Queen Mary 2 has just rerouted her world voyage to go back to Southampton via South Africa rather than through the canal. I wish Crystal would make their announcement soon!

[Dog-man]

Carnival have announced the rerouting of twelve ships as a result of the Red Sea crisis

 

https://www.carnivalcorp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/carnival-corporation-plc-provides-update-strong-bookings

 

Crystal must now be the only line left that aren’t saying anything to their guests !!!