Miss leading free drink package

[Lionkingrichard]

On 2/17/2024 at 10:54 AM, Mrearl said:

No, I did not pay or book yet. The advertisement stated free drink and specialty dining. Then when you look at the final price it states over $600 for drink

gratuities and $50 for specialty dinning gratuities. 

They had the same promo back 2018 when you were on the Dawn? Tips were a little less back then.

[MoCruiseFan]

---> That only applies to 2.3% of cruisers.  The rest are nice people who couldn't care less...

 

--->Not necessarily.  21.3% of NCL cruisers won't book a ship without an OL.


57.21% of people quoting statistcis are making them up off the top of their head!
 

[MoCruiseFan]

BTW who is this Miss Leading you speak of and what is her first name?  I've never met her on any of my cruising and she sounds, shall we say, interesting!  🙂

[SeaShark]

16 hours ago, havoc315 said:

no.  Unless you’re claiming ships are sailing without enough life boats. 
 

Most ships are sailing at over 100% capacity. 

 

Never made such a claim, but that doesn't stop you as you prefer to make up stuff to argue against instead of using what was said. What I said was that 2 in a cabin is not "official capacity", it is actually just "double occupancy". Extra berths can cause an excess of "double occupancy", but never exceed "official capacity" as "official capacity" is determined by lifeboat seats, not 2 in a cabin as you claimed.

 

Not only that, but lifeboats cover sections, and once lifeboat capacity for a section is reached no additional bookings in that section (be they empty excess berths or empty cabins) are permitted.

[d9704011]

2 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

Not only that, but lifeboats cover sections, and once lifeboat capacity for a section is reached no additional bookings in that section (be they empty excess berths or empty cabins) are permitted.

Well now, there's something new.  I had never thought of that although it's quite sensible.  Is it just lifeboats or are life rafts (inflatables) part of that overall sectional capacity?

[SeaShark]

1 minute ago, d9704011 said:

Well now, there's something new.  I had never thought of that although it's quite sensible.  Is it just lifeboats or are life rafts (inflatables) part of that overall sectional capacity?

 

Not new at all. It is well known that you can't always add additional guests to a cabin as lifeboat capacity might be exceeded. This is often a problem with prime (kids out of school) season cruises.

 

Just lifeboats, inflatables are designed for crew. I think @chengkp75 can probably explain it better.

[hallux]

47 minutes ago, MoCruiseFan said:

BTW who is this Miss Leading you speak of and what is her first name?

How original 🤪. Several people have made similar jokes about the grammar error...

[havoc315]

1 hour ago, SeaShark said:

 

Never made such a claim, but that doesn't stop you as you prefer to make up stuff to argue against instead of using what was said. What I said was that 2 in a cabin is not "official capacity", it is actually just "double occupancy". Extra berths can cause an excess of "double occupancy", but never exceed "official capacity" as "official capacity" is determined by lifeboat seats, not 2 in a cabin as you claimed.

 

Not only that, but lifeboats cover sections, and once lifeboat capacity for a section is reached no additional bookings in that section (be they empty excess berths or empty cabins) are permitted.

 

This is really straying far from the discussion.  I never said you claimed ships sail without sufficient lifeboats.  You did say, your exact words:   "Official capacity is based on lifeboat seats...not cabins, beds, or anything else."

 

Now, let's remember exactly what we were talking about. We were talking about the published capacity of NCL Encore, of 4,000 guests. So if that published capacity was based on lifeboat seats, then how it is that ships are sailing at OVER 100% capacity?!?!

 

Because capacity (the stats published by NCL.. specifically referring to NCL's claim that the Encore capacity is 4,000) is NOT based on lifeboat seats.  MAXIMUM capacity may indeed be based on lifeboat seats.  But we weren't talking about "maximum" capacity. We were very very explicitly talking about the published capacity of the Encore at 4,000.  

 

We were specifically talking about the Encore, and I said that 4000 passengers is based on double occupancy, 2 per cabin, however you want to phrase the same thing. (there are indeed some solo cabins that count as  single occupancy if we are being exact):

 

"2,043 staterooms and capacity for 4,004 passengers at double occupancy.^[9]"

 

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Encore#:~:text=Norwegian Encore has 20 decks,4%2C004 passengers at double occupancy.}

So are you saying that the NCL Encore only has enough lifeboats for 4,004 people?

 

 

[The Traveling Man]

On 2/15/2024 at 9:35 PM, realnice46 said:

From what I can see if you choose all inclusive with Celebrity drinks and Wi-Fi include these is no extra charge on the drink package. NCL seems to be a bait and switch making you think you have all inclusive and you don’t when you view the final price.

You are correct about gratuities with the Celebrity drink package, but the upper price limit per drink of the basic package is just $10.  I’m not sure about the price of mixed drinks, but it’s tough finding a good wine for that price per glass.

[PTC DAWG]

21 minutes ago, The Traveling Man said:

You are correct about gratuities with the Celebrity drink package, but the upper price limit per drink of the basic package is just $10.  I’m not sure about the price of mixed drinks, but it’s tough finding a good wine for that price per glass.

Jim Beam is the only bourbon on their classic package…I always upgrade…

[CptJLMcCrea]

9 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

Jim Beam is the only bourbon on their classic package…I always upgrade…

 

Ouch. That is a dastardly, yet no doubt effective, way to upsell!

 

[SoloAlaska]

44 minutes ago, The Traveling Man said:

You are correct about gratuities with the Celebrity drink package, but the upper price limit per drink of the basic package is just $10.  I’m not sure about the price of mixed drinks, but it’s tough finding a good wine for that price per glass.

2 years ago on Celebrity my favorite scotch was $11 but last year it jumped to $15. Year one I was happy, year two I was not at all. Also note the price wasn’t really written anywhere. I assumed it was close to the same as the price before.

Edited February 18 by SoloAlaska

[d9704011]

3 hours ago, SeaShark said:

 

Not new at all. It is well known that you can't always add additional guests to a cabin as lifeboat capacity might be exceeded. This is often a problem with prime (kids out of school) season cruises.

 

Just lifeboats, inflatables are designed for crew. I think @chengkp75 can probably explain it better.

I'm sure it's not new at all... just to me.  I've no doubt that IMO/SOLAS and Flag State conventions and regulatory regimes have pretty carefully addressed this sort of thing over the years.

[SeaShark]

2 hours ago, havoc315 said:

So if that published capacity was based on lifeboat seats, then how it is that ships are sailing at OVER 100% capacity?!?!

 

Because YOU can't/won't understand the difference between double occupancy and capacity.

 

2 hours ago, havoc315 said:

But we weren't talking about "maximum" capacity.

 

True. What started this was you using the term "official capacity" instead of the correct "double occupancy". 

 

2 hours ago, havoc315 said:

(there are indeed some solo cabins that count as  single occupancy if we are being exact):

 

Something that I already pointed out, btw.

 

2 hours ago, havoc315 said:

2,043 staterooms and capacity for 4,004 passengers at double occupancy.^[9]"

 

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Encore#:~:text=Norwegian Encore has 20 decks,4%2C004 passengers at double occupancy.}

So are you saying that the NCL Encore only has enough lifeboats for 4,004 people?

 

Notice that your reference uses the term "double occupancy" and not "official capacity" as you did in error. An no, I'm not saying anything about the Encore's lifeboat capacity (if I did, it would be plainly stated). Again...arguing something that was never stated.

[havoc315]

3 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

Because YOU can't/won't understand the difference between double occupancy and capacity.

 

 

True. What started this was you using the term "official capacity" instead of the correct "double occupancy". 

 

 

Something that I already pointed out, btw.

 

 

Notice that your reference uses the term "double occupancy" and not "official capacity" as you did in error. An no, I'm not saying anything about the Encore's lifeboat capacity (if I did, it would be plainly stated). Again...arguing something that was never stated.

I have no idea what you’re arguing about.  You seem to be in total agreement with me that the real maximum capacity of the Encore is greater than 4,000 people. Seems you chose to pick a fight about semantics, though you agree totally with the conclusion. 

[Russiamomm]

1 hour ago, PTC DAWG said:

Jim Beam is the only bourbon on their classic package…I always upgrade…

Yikes is right!  That alone is reason is reason to sail with NCL!  At least I can get Buffalo Trace with the basic package!  😂

[ChrysFox]

20 hours ago, havoc315 said:

And it’s not known whether the $21.80 is actually a gratuity, or it’s just the “real” price for the “free” package. 

'Real' is what comes out of my wallet.  Anything else is window dressing.

[havoc315]

2 minutes ago, ChrysFox said:

'Real' is what comes out of my wallet.  Anything else is window dressing.

Exactly. For your wallet, it isn’t free… it’s $21,80. 
Whether that’s really a gratuity, or whether it’s the real cost of the drink package, is irrelevant. 

[SeaShark]

2 hours ago, havoc315 said:

Exactly. For your wallet, it isn’t free… it’s $21,80. 
Whether that’s really a gratuity, or whether it’s the real cost of the drink package, is irrelevant. 

 

Nobody has said that it was free, correct? Especially since you have to buy a cruise to get it.

 

The misleading "really a gratuity, or whether it's the real cost" doesn't seem so irrelevant considering how many times you've mentioned it.

 

Think of it more like a surcharge to those who accept that part of the Free @ Sea promotion. The "real cost", fwiw, is actually baked into the cruise fare that everyone pays...whether you take the drink package or not. So even if you pass on the package, you'll still subsidize it as part of the fare. There is no free lunch. Do you really think a cruise line could make a profit or stay in business if they really gave drinks, specialty dining, wifi, and excursions away for "free"?

[havoc315]

55 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

Nobody has said that it was free, correct? Especially since you have to buy a cruise to get it.

 

The misleading "really a gratuity, or whether it's the real cost" doesn't seem so irrelevant considering how many times you've mentioned it.

 

Think of it more like a surcharge to those who accept that part of the Free @ Sea promotion. The "real cost", fwiw, is actually baked into the cruise fare that everyone pays...whether you take the drink package or not. So even if you pass on the package, you'll still subsidize it as part of the fare. There is no free lunch. Do you really think a cruise line could make a profit or stay in business if they really gave drinks, specialty dining, wifi, and excursions away for "free"?

In the context of retail marketing, “free” is usually understood as “included at no additional charge.”

 

”buy one get one free”— is understood as you actually get 2 of the items, for the price tag on the single item. 
 

Here, it’s “buy one get one free*”

*see the 10 page terms and conditions…

 

Buried deeper… it’s really, “buy the cruise and get a drink package for $22 per day”

 

Yes, it is certainly pretty clear that you’d need to buy the cruise to get the drink package. 
Non-misleading advertising would be, “Get a drink package for just $22 per day”

 

I don’t know why there are some people who feel the need to defend NCL’s honor, as if your spouse is being criticized. 
 

You personally don’t feel misled.  That’s fine. Why do you feel the need to attack people who do feel it is misleading?

[Smitheroo]

On 2/15/2024 at 9:12 PM, debenson0723 said:

The package itself is free...you pay the gratuities, which are about $21 p/p per day. So if you drink anywhere between 2-3 drinks a day, it pays for itself.

And you must not have been on an RCL cruise...for their drink package on my cruise, it was $89.99 p/p per day PLUS 18% gratuities. Needless to say, I skipped buying that one.

 

 

On 2/15/2024 at 9:09 PM, Mrearl said:

I was checking on a 14 day cruise with a drink package included.  They then state we have to pay gratuities which is $690 in  gratuities. It makes the initial price look good until they add the gratuities. This is the first cruise line I have been on that makes you pay gratuities for the drink package.  

I see you've traveled on Cunard but not as recently as I have (2013) I forget exactly how they do it because I didnt drink then. I think you buy the drink package but you are *expected* to tip, or else its all included together, I cant remember. But they're not giving out free drinks either. 

[Smitheroo]

On 2/15/2024 at 9:09 PM, Mrearl said:

I was checking on a 14 day cruise with a drink package included.  They then state we have to pay gratuities which is $690 in  gratuities. It makes the initial price look good until they add the gratuities. This is the first cruise line I have been on that makes you pay gratuities for the drink package.  

I cant find the answer I just wrote to you so I will just do a new one. With the Cunard package, at least this was the case in 2013, if the drink you wanted was over the limit (let's use $15 for example, like NCL) you had to pay the *entire* cost of the drink. On NCL you only pay the difference. Note that I said that's how it was on Cunard in 2013 but that's not that long ago.

[Smitheroo]

On 2/16/2024 at 9:18 AM, graphicguy said:

Yeah....but their fares are much higher to make up for it.  

 

It's the total out of pocket that matters.

 

Ask yourself if individually you'll drink $22 in liquor, beer, wine and sodas per day.  That's the cost.  If not, don't include it in your FAS.

 

BTW...that figures out to be 2-3 drinks per day per person.

my thinking is that if you dont drink quite enough (but almost) to make the package worthwhile, it is still worthwhile to me.  It is just easier. But I wouldnt do it for that reason alone if I thought I might only drink 3 drinks on the entire cruise. It has to be close and then I dont worry about it.

[Smitheroo]

On 2/15/2024 at 9:09 PM, Mrearl said:

I was checking on a 14 day cruise with a drink package included.  They then state we have to pay gratuities which is $690 in  gratuities. It makes the initial price look good until they add the gratuities. This is the first cruise line I have been on that makes you pay gratuities for the drink package.  

You shouldnt have been "mislead" but you have a right to be disappointed.  So in the end the question is do I think it is worth it or not.  If another liner offers a 100% "free" drinks package go for it.  I cant comment on that because I only have experience with one other line and in my opinion, NCL is a much better deal

[Smitheroo]

On 2/17/2024 at 5:33 PM, rodndonna said:

 

I didn't think you could book FAS and not have the gratuities for those added to your invoice. It adds them in automatically on the invoice the same way it adds port charges and taxes. They're not like DSC gratuities that you  can "optionally" choose to add to the invoice. 

You can book "FAS" and have the drinks package (which is really the gratuity charge) removed. I did it once, easy.  At the end of the first day I questioned my decision and went to Guest Services and had it added back on. Also easy.  I've also had specialty dining removed (which are the gratuities removed)  The gratuities for the specialty dining are not much to worry about.