Passenger Safety: Crew Members in Pax Staterooms

[New2cruise2022]

TLDR; Senior and visible crew member (45+ years old was in a female 21+ year olds cabin, sitting on the bed with the passenger, and providing champagne to her and her friend, a 20-year-old female. What are the rules and protocols that govern this situation on a Princess cruise ship?
 

My brother @drwbrt and I recently finished a fantastic 7-night cruise on the Discovery Princess, Feb 24 - Mar 2. We were very pleased with the experience with the exception of one troubling incident that occurred on the last night of the cruise. I’m looking for any insight into known protocols or procedures to the experience I will share. I apologize for the length, but context matters. 
 

I’m in my mid-40s and my brother is in his late 30s. We also traveled with three of my sons, 22, 18, and 16 years old. On the last night, my oldest son was hanging out with a few female passengers that he met onboard. The night got late. We were at Crooner’s bar past the last call and the end of the singing entertainment. 
 

My brother and I personally observed the musical talent (great piano player and singer) enjoying drinks with a senior staff member that was very visible throughout the week.
 

The staff member was a silver-haired bloke, probably 45-55 years old, with an accent from his UK country of origin. This staff members duties were seen introducing comedians in the Vista Lounge and directing game shows and other entertainment events in the Piazza and across the venues in the ship. On this last night, whether in a formal or informal capacity, he was singing along with the entertainer. 

 

We were told last call for drinks came and went and watched the bartenders continue to serve the crew member and entertainer. (Perhaps this is standard for Princess, I don’t know.) In addition to the two 20-something year old friends my son met, were two older women, probably in their 40s. We saw the staff member offer a long embrace before the two older women left. We haven’t witnessed that kind of physical interaction between staff and passengers at anytime or on any cruise we have sailed on. However, while we noted the interaction, we allowed space for this to be welcomed and normal if perhaps this were family or friends from back home. (The captain, Tony Ruggero, was accompanied by his wife on our sailing, so we know this happens.)

 

We remained for about 20 minutes after the older women (sorry, hate saying older, but they were older than my son’s two friends that were also in their traveling party) left for the night. The crew member left at the same time, presumably calling it a night. And then over the course of the next 20 minutes, he made repeated “drive by” stops at Crooners where we were, turning his attention to my son and the two younger women. He would stop by and look at the group, or stop by and talk to them. This happened 3-4 times. 
 

With the clock moving beyond midnight and close to 12:30 AM, my brother and I and my two younger sons returned to our staterooms and my oldest son stayed with his friends. 
 

Fast forward to 8:30 AM the next morning, disembarkation, and my oldest son is recounting his night while we are actively leaving the ship. 
 

He said he left Crooners with his friends shortly after we went to bed. They headed to the casino for a smoke and were joined by the senior crew member. After the smoke, they went to the females’ (again, 21+ and 20 years old) cabin. The senior crew member went with them. He entered the stateroom and sat on one of the beds with them. 
 

My son said that he considered going to bed at this point, but felt like “he needed to stay for the safety of the women because of the vibe the much older crew member was putting off”. He remained and they later went to deck 7 for another smoke. Again the senior crew member accompanied them for a smoke and then back to the passenger’s stateroom. My son again felt compelled to stay with them. 
 

The women are both from the UK and the under 21 woman lamented that despite having a drink package, the crew on Discovery Princess would not serve her alcohol because she was “underage”. The senior staff member offered to get alcohol for the group. He said he had a bottle of champagne in his stateroom. He left and again returned to a passenger’s stateroom where he entered and sat on the bed with the 21+ woman and served alcohol to both of the women. 
 

At one point he went to the bathroom and the three young passengers looked at each other and discussed how weird it was that the senior crew member was in the room and that it was unwelcomed. 
 

Eventually my son went to bed after they left for another smoke break. He doesn’t know if the crew member remained with his friends or not. 
 

My brother and I felt uncomfortable with this situation. Already off the ship, we discussed and shared the story with the captain, the cruise director, the assistant cruise director, and a senior HR official for Princess via email and social media private messaging. 
 

We heard back from the captain, the assistant cruise director, and the HR official through our social media private messaging. We were thanked for sharing and assured that the matter would be looked into and addressed. No other information regarding protocols or actions taken were shared and we have not heard more since. 
 

We understand the difficulties and legalities of sharing HR determinations, but we do feel the lack of information and transparency fails to create trust and help us (as consumers) understand the culture and approach to passenger safety. 
 

We assume that there are protocols in place that prescribe when and how a crew member goes about being in a stateroom that is empty, let alone with a passenger inside. We assume that whatever those protocols are, they have been violated. We do not have any understanding of corrective actions that are taken for these behaviors. 
 

We also assume there are protocols and procedures in place for the sale, provision, and consumption of alcohol with passengers and certainly for passengers that are deemed “underage”. We assume there are also prescribed corrective actions, but we are unaware of what this is. 
 

We like Princess and the product they have from food and accommodations, to value and staffing. But a simple assurance without an understanding of the culture and values and actions to uphold those values and create that culture is insufficient. 
 

We hope to hear more from Princess in the coming weeks and invite you to share similar experiences or understanding on this matter. Thanks!

[Tom Baker]

I can comment on another Carnival Brand with certainty but I am not sure exactly how Princess operate, but im sure its Carnival wide. Members of staff are encoraged to "interact" in open areas with guests, but under no circumstances should they go into cabins invited or not with guests.

 

That said, the entertainment are classed as guests and once their "work" is over for the day they can do whatever they want, just like any other passenger. However if this had happened to my 21 YO daughter I would be hitting the roof and making sure they were aware of this person.

 

Again, that said, 21year old ladies in the UK may have been at university for 3 years, in which case they may well have had lots of practice getting rid of persistant admirers. I'm sure, if they were uncomfortble they would have made themselves unavailbale.

 

[New2cruise2022]

The crew member was not entertainment. Probably the first staff member below cruise director and assistant cruise director. 
 

I think it is dangerous to qualify the situation on a perceived ability to make oneself unavailable. A passenger should not have to be skilled or determined to push off the advances of a crew member twice his or her age. 

Edited March 11 by New2cruise2022

[Tom Baker]

1 minute ago, New2cruise2022 said:

The crew member was not entertainment. Probably the first staff member below cruise director and assistant crew member. 

In which case there are strict protocols in place and the matter will be taken very seriously!

[New2cruise2022]

The offer of alcohol to gain favor — when he is the only one that can furnish it to an underage passenger is equally troubling. 

[Tom Baker]

4 minutes ago, New2cruise2022 said:

The offer of alcohol to gain favor — when he is the only one that can furnish it to an underage passenger is equally troubling. 

Don't forget, these "girls" may have been drinking for many years and could probably out drink most. The twenty year old will have been very upset, having paid for a drinks package and not being able to get a drink, though she should have been more studious in her choice of route.

 

I think it would be best if the young ladies made their own complaint assuming they have one at all. Perception and culture may be very different between yourselves and the ladies in question and the guy may have felt sorry for the young lady and was being friendly rather than lecherous.

 

 

Edited March 11 by Tom Baker

[New2cruise2022]

Los Angeles to Mexican Riviera. 
 

We were most shocked by the behavior because it was so completely discordant with the rest of our cruise. We went personally spoke with the captain at dinner one night. His kindness and professionalism exceeded all expectations. Cole and Oz led the cruise’s activities with complete professionalism. Complete.  They have a microphone in hand most of the time. Their words are carefully chosen and their behavior impeccable. 
 

I have no complaints with Princess. This incident is not a complaint with Princess, assuming Princess was not aware of a pattern of behavior and assuming that corrective measures are swift and absolute. Under both of those conditions, Princess remains an elite product with a safe and wonderful culture. Failure to address appropriately, a fissure in the image and reputation is identified and widened. 

[New2cruise2022]

9 minutes ago, Tom Baker said:

Don't forget, these "girls" may have been drinking for many years and could probably out drink most. The twenty year old will have been very upset, having paid for a drinks package and not being able to get a drink, though she should have been more studious in her choice of route.

 

I think it would be best if the young ladies made their own complaint assuming they have one at all. Perception and culture may be very different between yourselves and the ladies in question and the guy may have felt sorry for the young lady and was being friendly rather than lecherous.

 

 

I leave room for choices and for wants that may not be my own. My question in this forum is not about the passengers but about how Princess views the crew member relationship with passengers. 
 

Does Princess permit romantic/social interactions between crew and passengers? I have no reason to believe they do. If they do, perhaps the Love Boat has a much broader interpretation. 
 

Does Princess forbid crew from spending time in passengers cabin? For the satety of both passengers and crew, it seems prudent that this must be governed with a sense of absolution. 

[New2cruise2022]

If you don’t have absolute rules in this regard you risk the safety of passengers (because people will not always make smart choices) and liability for crew and company (because consent is not always perceived equally.)

 

The concern in this forum is not about the women mentioned. There is no reason to weigh the saavy street smarts (or lack thereof) of passengers involved. It is look at the decisions and behavior of the crew member and the compliance (or lack thereof) to rules and protocols. 

[memoak]

Alas the days of hanging out with crew in crew bar and having flings are pretty much gone due to liability issues. It is a shame

Edited March 11 by memoak

[dickinson]

You said you heard back from the captain, assistant cruise director, and HR rep.  Most companies will not tell you what happens to the involved employee.  Rest assured that the captain will make sure there are repercussions to that employee.  I wouldn't be surprised if they are now no longer employed... however, you will never know.

[karatemom2]

It is almost a certainty that Princess has some guidelines related to crew, staff, and officers fraternizing with guests. I would assume that would probably prohibit the behavior you described, in particular serving alcohol to an underage guest. You did the prudent thing by reporting what your son shared with you. Now that you have done so, I would expect that you need to allow Princess to handle it according to their HR procedures, which likely do not include reporting back to you in any additional way  other then they already have in thanking you for sharing the information and letting you know they will act on it.

 

This will likely involve a full HR investigation - it may be something that takes several weeks and involve contacting others for their comment, perhaps including the women involved. Employees have a right to due process and also confidentiality. You may never know the outcome and it is not something Princess would share. Every cruise line, and every business for that matter, have policies and procedures that need to be followed and inevitably, as is illustrated by the very disturbing current story about an RCI crew member, there are legal protocols that must be followed.

 

No cruise line will want the potential liability of someone who may be crossing boundaries that could lead to legal or even criminal issues. I trust Princess will do what needs to be done.

[onetimearoundtheworld]

Hard time believing it. It might be the crew member decided that it was the end of his last contract ever and wanted to get off with a bang. 

 

Other than that this is how to violate as many rules as possible with as many witnesses as possible while drawing as much attention to the situation as possible. 

[SCX22]

Don't think that this topic should be on blast.  Concerns like this should be reported to the FBI.  

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles/how-cruise-ships-deal-with-crime-at-sea

[WonderMan3]

Not sure why the ages of everyone involved keeps being emphasized here. The female passengers are adult women not girls. The crew member in question’s age is irrelevant; his behavior going to a passenger’s cabin was inappropriate regardless of age.

Edited March 11 by WonderMan3

[Torfamm]

57 minutes ago, New2cruise2022 said:

The crew member was not entertainment. Probably the first staff member below cruise director and assistant cruise director. 
 

I think it is dangerous to qualify the situation on a perceived ability to make oneself unavailable. A passenger should not have to be skilled or determined to push off the advances of a crew member twice his or her age. 

I’d like to know how he ended up in their room after they left the casino. Did one of the group invite him to come with them or did he ask if he could go with them or did he just show up after they were there?

[TRLD]

1 hour ago, New2cruise2022 said:

I leave room for choices and for wants that may not be my own. My question in this forum is not about the passengers but about how Princess views the crew member relationship with passengers. 
 

Does Princess permit romantic/social interactions between crew and passengers? I have no reason to believe they do. If they do, perhaps the Love Boat has a much broader interpretation. 
 

Does Princess forbid crew from spending time in passengers cabin? For the satety of both passengers and crew, it seems prudent that this must be governed with a sense of absolution. 

My understanding is that the interactions you described are not allowed.

 

Social interactions in public yes

A crew member social interacts inside a passengers cabin No

 

Princess list this in the attachments to their employment contract  as something considered to be gross misconduct

 

IWO 1-10 Initiating, attempting to initiate, or engaging in intimate relations with a passenger.

 

The following is considered to be misconduct

 

OBR 1-09 Unauthorized presence in passenger areas, and/or the unauthorized accompaniment and/or invitation of passengers into crew areas

 

I would expect that offering to provide alcohol to someone that is underage to obtain it themselves would also be considered to be a violation of rules.

Edited March 11 by TRLD

[New2cruise2022]

43 minutes ago, karatemom2 said:

It is almost a certainty that Princess has some guidelines related to crew, staff, and officers fraternizing with guests. I would assume that would probably prohibit the behavior you described, in particular serving alcohol to an underage guest. You did the prudent thing by reporting what your son shared with you. Now that you have done so, I would expect that you need to allow Princess to handle it according to their HR procedures, which likely do not include reporting back to you in any additional way  other then they already have in thanking you for sharing the information and letting you know they will act on it.

 

This will likely involve a full HR investigation - it may be something that takes several weeks and involve contacting others for their comment, perhaps including the women involved. Employees have a right to due process and also confidentiality. You may never know the outcome and it is not something Princess would share. Every cruise line, and every business for that matter, have policies and procedures that need to be followed and inevitably, as is illustrated by the very disturbing current story about an RCI crew member, there are legal protocols that must be followed.

 

No cruise line will want the potential liability of someone who may be crossing boundaries that could lead to legal or even criminal issues. I trust Princess will do what needs to be done.

I have the same assessment with regard to business, HR, and legalities. With 15+ years as an attorney, I would presume legal counsel actively creates rules and procedures for staff that limit liability and promote safety for both crew and passenger. 
 

I am trying to understand if people know if there are rules or a philosophy regarding staff/passenger interactions. 

[New2cruise2022]

28 minutes ago, Torfamm said:

I’d like to know how he ended up in their room after they left the casino. Did one of the group invite him to come with them or did he ask if he could go with them or did he just show up after they were there?

If there is a rule prohibiting crew from being with passengers in cabins, it doesn’t matter how the crew came to be in the cabin. 

[Mark_K]

9 minutes ago, TRLD said:

My understanding is that the interactions you described are not allowed.

 

Social interactions in public yes

A crew member social interacts inside a passengers cabin No

 

Princess list this in the attachments to their employment contract  as something considered to be gross misconduct

 

IWO 1-10 Initiating, attempting to initiate, or engaging in intimate relations with a passenger.

 

The following is considered to be misconduct

 

OBR 1-09 Unauthorized presence in passenger areas, and/or the unauthorized accompaniment and/or invitation of passengers into crew areas

 

I would expect that offering to provide alcohol to someone that is underage to obtain it themselves would also be considered to be a violation of rules.

That’s from the crew member employment contract, are you sure it applies to staff positions? 

[TRLD]

2 minutes ago, Mark_K said:

That’s from the crew member employment contract, are you sure it applies to staff positions? 

It is the standard employment contract for hotel side employees which includes the entertainment department (in this case cruise director staff).

 

Edited March 11 by TRLD

[1emerald1]

Thank you for reporting this to Corporate.  About 14 or so years ago I took my two daughters and a friend, ages ranging from 18 to almost 21 on a Carribean cruise.  The 30 something DJ was stalking and preying on the friend.  He chastised me for being overprotective, as I never let then out of my sight, and I told him that I knew what guys like him were all about, etc etc. He finally caught the friend alone and propositioned her.  Once she saw for herself what he was all about she was shocked and disgusted and put him in his place.  That was the end of that.

 

I know that Princess has a zero-tolerance policy of crew socializing with passengers, but it most certainly does happen.

[New2cruise2022]

42 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

Not sure why the ages of everyone involved keeps being emphasized here. The female passengers are adult women not girls. The crew member in question’s age is irrelevant; his behavior going to a passenger’s cabin was inappropriate regardless of age.

Agreed. The ages were  provided for context with regard to alcohol consumption and provision. Also, a 20 year old passenger, far from home is somewhat different from an older crew member that has status and responsibility with Princess. I don’t want to go all Spider-Man and talk about greater power correlating with greater responsibility, but it is a real thing. The ages were not provided to start a conversation about age gap relationships but to help people understand what transpired. 
 

That being said, if there is a rule, there is a rule. 

[New2cruise2022]

1 minute ago, TRLD said:

It is the standard employment contract for hotel side employees which includes the entertainment department.

Thank you for sharing your insights to this and confirming that the behavior is beyond suspect if the investigation supports the claim. 

[New2cruise2022]

2 minutes ago, 1emerald1 said:

Thank you for reporting this to Corporate.  About 14 or so years ago I took my two daughters and a friend, ages ranging from 18 to almost 21 on a Carribean cruise.  The 30 something DJ was stalking and preying on the friend.  He chastised me for being overprotective, as I never let then out of my sight, and I told him that I knew what guys like him were all about, etc etc. He finally caught the friend alone and propositioned her.  Once she saw for herself what he was all about she was shocked and disgusted and put him in his place.  That was the end of that.

 

I know that Princess has a zero-tolerance policy of crew socializing with passengers, but it most certainly does happen.

Thank you for sharing your personal experience. I am a survivor of abuse myself and keenly aware of patterns of behavior and grooming tactics. If behavior that is out of line is merely regarded as innocent mistakes, the door is left to open for a pattern to arise and behavior to escalate.