NEWS FLASH: HAL to favor Triples and Quads

[AKJonesy]

Just opened up HA website and see on the banner "Free 3rd and 4th Guests", and something new.  When you select "See eligible cruises", then it has 378 results.  At the top of each eligible cruise and on the map, the "Free Guests 3 and 4 is highlighted".  I haven't seen that before.  I was kind of surprised on a few of them to see this:  51 day Tales of the South Pacific.  I just checked my upcoming Japan Seattle cruise and I'm not in a Triple or Quad and I will be sure to book only a double room in future. 

[Real NHDOC]

I just read the ticket contract and can find nothing that says HAL can move guests from their chosen stateroom arbitrarily in order to accommodate other guests. The term “Stateroom” appears 20 times and none of those paragraphs even remotely say anything about this new policy being permitted. There are conditions under which you agree to being moved or confined but those have to do with medical conditions and emergencies. I believe if HAL did move guests arbitrarily from their chosen stateroom to accommodate larger parties then it represents a breach of contract and a refund would be in order. 

[rwethereyet1969]

So.....what happens when a couple books a suite with an occupancy available for 4?  We are booked on the Koningsdam for an Alaskan cruise in a Signature Suite which has a murphy bed and a sofa that can be used as a bed.  Don't ALL SS on the K'd technically sleep 4?  Would they bump us down to a V category that sleeps 2?

 

We have never cruised before and this will be our first adventure.  I specifically chose our stateroom for the large balcony, large bathroom, extra room space, and the midship location to avoid motion sickness.  

[SetAnOpenCourse]

8 hours ago, SetAnOpenCourse said:

If I get bumped into the same or better category, no obstruction, tub/no tub to match cabin I chose (fwiw I’m a tub guy), same fwd/mid/aft to match, same size or larger, no noise issue, and within say two decks of the one I chose, then I wouldn’t mind much.  A major cruise line’s system is likely sophisticated enough to handle this.

It’s too late to edit my post, but I just need to say my comment is sincere.  The three emoji-reactions thus far were HaHa’s.

🧐

Edited March 21 by SetAnOpenCourse

[Wehwalt]

50 minutes ago, Real NHDOC said:

I just read the ticket contract and can find nothing that says HAL can move guests from their chosen stateroom arbitrarily in order to accommodate other guests. The term “Stateroom” appears 20 times and none of those paragraphs even remotely say anything about this new policy being permitted. There are conditions under which you agree to being moved or confined but those have to do with medical conditions and emergencies. I believe if HAL did move guests arbitrarily from their chosen stateroom to accommodate larger parties then it represents a breach of contract and a refund would be in order. 

Just as a hasty glance, Paragraph 4, "Carrier may without liability for refund, payment, compensation or credit, except as provided herein, disembark or refuse to embark You, confine You in a stateroom, quarantine You, restrain You, change Your accommodations or disembark You at any time if, in the sole opinion of Carrier, the Captain or any doctor, You or any minor or other person in Your care during the Cruise, Cruisetour, and/or Land Trip(s), are unfit for any reason for the Cruise, Cruisetour, and/or Land Trip(s), or Your presence might be detrimental to Your health, comfort or safety or that of any other person, or in the judgment of the Captain is advisable for any reason." The key words being "Carrier may without liability for refund ... change your accommodations ... if ... in the judgment of the Captain is advisable for any reason."

 

Obviously the major purpose of that section is health but it covers anything.

 

Also Paragraph 8, "Except as otherwise provided, Carrier may, for any reason, without prior notice, cancel the cruise, Cruisetour, and/or Land Trip(s); deviate from the scheduled ports of call, route and timetable; call or omit to call at any port or place or cancel or modify any activity on or off the ship; comply with all governmental laws and orders given by governmental authorities; render assistance to preserve life and property; or change the date or time of sailing or arrival, change the port of embarkation or disembarkation, shorten the Cruise, Cruisetour and/or Land Trip(s), or substitute ships, aircraft or other transportation or lodging." Or lodging.

 

Personally, I think they should not move people like that especially when they've taken extra money to let people choose their cabin, but they're probably within their rights. It's pretty lousy for the people involved though.

Edited March 21 by Wehwalt

[TiogaCruiser]

So I wonder how many grandchildren will be booked into gramma and grandpa’s cabin and just not make it to the ship?

(3rd 4th sail free….)🤔

[3rdGenCunarder]

54 minutes ago, rwethereyet1969 said:

So.....what happens when a couple books a suite with an occupancy available for 4?  We are booked on the Koningsdam for an Alaskan cruise in a Signature Suite which has a murphy bed and a sofa that can be used as a bed.  Don't ALL SS on the K'd technically sleep 4?  Would they bump us down to a V category that sleeps 2?

 

We have never cruised before and this will be our first adventure.  I specifically chose our stateroom for the large balcony, large bathroom, extra room space, and the midship location to avoid motion sickness.  

 

Nobody has reported this happening yet, so we don't know what happens to the bumped passengers. 

 

I looked at the deck plans and you're right. Except for two Sig suites way forward on 5, all the SS are in the same area and all are quads.  I would hope if someone tries to book a triple or quad online, they would see what's available and not be able to grab yours. But if they call, I would hope that HAL would say, Sorry no Signatures, but we do have Vista Suites and Verandahs that will take 3 or 4 people. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

2 minutes ago, TiogaCruiser said:

So I wonder how many grandchildren will be booked into gramma and grandpa’s cabin and just not make it to the ship?

(3rd 4th sail free….)🤔

 

I would be more concerned that they DO make it on the ship and the ship gets more crowded.

 

I'm feeling better and better that my Alaska trip this summer is on Cunard. They do have triples and a few quads, but they don't run the "kids sail free" or "3rd and 4th persons sail free." 

[3rdGenCunarder]

54 minutes ago, SetAnOpenCourse said:

It’s too late to edit my post, but I just need to say my comment is sincere.  The three emoji-reactions thus far were HaHa’s.

🧐

 

I suspect the hahas were directed at your comment about HAL's system being sophisticated enough to find a reasonable new location. I must admit, I didn't know if you were being sarcastic with that remark and almost added my haha, too.

[SetAnOpenCourse]

9 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

I suspect the hahas were directed at your comment about HAL's system being sophisticated enough to find a reasonable new location.

I see.  Makes sense, considering the history of website issues.  And, on second thought, even if the system does select a reasonable new cabin, it can’t read our minds as to the true factors behind the original cabin choice.

Edited March 21 by SetAnOpenCourse

[3rdGenCunarder]

Just now, SetAnOpenCourse said:

I see.  Makes sense, considering their website issues.  And, on second thought, even if the system does select a reasonable new cabin, it can’t read our minds as to the true factors behind the original cabin choice.

 

I would hope that, if you're bumped, you would get a call and could make a new choice with a live person, and not get the computer's "best guess." A good TA or PCC might be able to get you a decent upgrade, or you could just be talking to someone at a call center. Until we hear from people who have been bumped, we won't know. 

[Menocchio]

13 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Nobody has reported this happening yet, so we don't know what happens to the bumped passengers. 

It's happened on Princess. They got bumped from one ocean view to a nearby one (from a view that was technically obstructed but acceptable to one that was really obstructed). It'd probably look much the same here. 

 

So, I don't think we quite know what staterooms HAL is talking about here. My guess is that they don't actually mean every room capable of holding three or four guests. I think most suites and most rooms with a pull out couch wouldn't be affected. For the suites, it's just that money talks. You pay for a suite (and they are going to let you pay for a suite), you aren't getting bumped. For the rest I just can't imagine they mean to lock off that many state rooms or shift around that many doubles. 

 

They mean the interior, ocean view, and veranda cabins that would be intended for a larger group or the first choice for a larger group. Which specifically are those? I dunno. I don't think HAL knows exactly either, hence the soft open for this policy. 

 

 

 

 

[Wehwalt]

10 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I would hope that, if you're bumped, you would get a call and could make a new choice with a live person, and not get the computer's "best guess." A good TA or PCC might be able to get you a decent upgrade, or you could just be talking to someone at a call center. Until we hear from people who have been bumped, we won't know. 

They'd probably rather not call you. Less trouble.

 

Yes, I think more information is needed both as to the policy and prevalence, both here and at the Princess board, before any sort of judgment can be made about whether this sort of thing should be defended against, or if it's a super-rare thing that lightning likely won't ever strike us and we shouldn't worry about.. 

Edited March 21 by Wehwalt

[FlaMariner]

10 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

What you consider an "upgrade" may not be for someone else.

 

Agree...that's why I said "good upgrade"...an upgrade is only defined by the passenger.

[FlaMariner]

6 hours ago, 0106 said:

Last week on the NS, there was a running joke about elevator capacity.  The one I frequently used had a capacity of 18.  We were never able to fit more than 14. Once, with 13 inside, an alarm sounded and the elevator would not move. The crew said someone had to get off because we were over the weight capacity.

 

Acceptable ship elevator passenger capacity drops as the cruise days pass.....Scientifically proven.  Less capacity on the ship elevators at disembarkation than embarkation.

[mawvkysc]

Maybe someone with a quad reservation (but only 2 in the cabin) can do a mock booking for four people and see if their cabin shows up on the offerings?

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

3 minutes ago, mawvkysc said:

Maybe someone with a quad reservation (but only 2 in the cabin) can do a mock booking for four people and see if their cabin shows up on the offerings?

 

 

I doubt it would. Booked cabins are taken out of inventory. I think the bumping is more likely to happen if someone--passenger or TA--calls HAL and asks for a triple or quad when they can't see what they want online. 

[Dutchman48]

I totally agree.

There is a significant up charge to pick a specific room. If they change my room to any other room without my consent, I expect the upcharge refunded.

 

I understand utilizing their cabins as efficiently as they can and have no problem with not showing certain available when they open up bookings. However, once they open up rooms to everyone any reason for a room change should be explained to the customer and agreed to. 

[Sea Hag]

13 hours ago, ChinaShrek said:

Why should a cruise line let one or two people stay in a cabin that sleeps 4 if they can get 4 people to stay in it? 

That's a good question, but "why should a cruise line book people into a cabin that they may or may not allow them to stay in?" is another. The online sales engine asks for number of people early on, so it would be simple to manage this for website bookings. TAs and HAL staff could also manage this. I say either tell people from the get-go that they might be moved or don't let them book a situation like that at all. I do understand the realities of the cruise lines trying to dig out of massive debt, but treating customers unfairly shouldn't be part of that.

[ChinaShrek]

5 minutes ago, Sea Hag said:

That's a good question, but "why should a cruise line book people into a cabin that they may or may not allow them to stay in?" is another. The online sales engine asks for number of people early on, so it would be simple to manage this for website bookings. TAs and HAL staff could also manage this. I say either tell people from the get-go that they might be moved or don't let them book a situation like that at all. I do understand the realities of the cruise lines trying to dig out of massive debt, but treating customers unfairly shouldn't be part of that.

Yeah, I see your point and realize that is also creating unmanageable expectations for people who book cabins. They definitely need to tell people that your cabin is only "tentative" and could be changed when someone with deeper pockets wants it.

[3rdGenCunarder]

37 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

Yeah, I see your point and realize that is also creating unmanageable expectations for people who book cabins. They definitely need to tell people that your cabin is only "tentative" and could be changed when someone with deeper pockets wants it.

 

Maybe not deeper pockets, if there's a kids or 3rd/4th sail free promo.

[Blackduck59]

39 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

Yeah, I see your point and realize that is also creating unmanageable expectations for people who book cabins. They definitely need to tell people that your cabin is only "tentative" and could be changed when someone with deeper pockets wants it.

Then it is not a booked cabin it is a "guarantee". Don't sell the Cadillac and charge for it, only to deliver a Chevrolet because someone else wanted your Cadillac. 

[cruisemom42]

In the last 12 months or so, I've watched with increasing dismay some of the questionable practices launched by the cruise industry under the umbrella of greater profitability. 

 

Personally, I've thought for years that the cruise contract gives cruise lines way too much latitude at the expense of customer rights. I'm no lawyer -- but have heard it opined by others who are -- that some of those clauses really should be challenged as there are such things as consumer rights and protections. However, as long as people keep booking and the lines sail full, I very much doubt there is any likelihood we'll see change.

 

As a solo passenger, welcome to my world. Some cruise lines (not HAL, at least not in my experience) won't even let solos book cabins on certain cruises -- not even at a full supplement. Some won't let solos book Guarantee cabins. Others, like Celebrity are aggressively making solos feel unwelcome in other ways -- such as charging way ABOVE 200% supplement if they want to book. As an example, a good (on CC) friend who's sailed Celebrity solo for years wanted to book a cruise later this spring on X. For a cabin that was listed as $1099 per person, double occupany, she was quoted a rate of $5500 for a solo....

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21 by cruisemom42

[crystalspin]

2 hours ago, Sea Hag said:

TAs and HAL staff could also manage this. I say either tell people from the get-go that they might be moved or don't let them book a situation like that at all.

Yes, that is exactly what happened to me, that started this thread. I was told of the policy, however apologetically.

[retird]

13 hours ago, Haljo1935 said:

Correct - some cabins have a sofa, others it's a pullout. Thus a 2 person vs 3 person capacity. 

And when you are viewing the deck plan how do you know which cabin has a sofa vs a pullout?