New Oceania ships ordered for 2027 & 2029

[KS&JW]

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/shipbuilding-equipment/nclh-orders-8-cruise-ships-3-brands-all-new-classes-and-bigger

 

Building on its last Allura-class ship in 2025, Oceania Cruises is scheduled to take delivery of two 86,000gt vessels with capacity for 1,400 passengers each in 2027 and 2029.

Sisters Vista and 2025's Allura are currently Oceania's largest ships, measuring 67,000gt with capacity for 1,200 passengers.

[WESTEAST]

IMO, this is an indicator that the R ships will be history... Disappointed that Oceania is increasing the passenger capacity to 1400 and not sure this will be appealing to current loyal (but aging) Oceania passengers. Perhaps larger ships will appeal to the younger generation. We are not thankfully, in the mobility challenged/aging passengers (as seen in our recent cruises), however by 2027/9, it maybe time to look at options. Times are a changing...

[Snaefell3]

37 minutes ago, WESTEAST said:

IMO, this is an indicator that the R ships will be history... Disappointed that Oceania is increasing the passenger capacity to 1400 and not sure this will be appealing to current loyal (but aging) Oceania passengers. Perhaps larger ships will appeal to the younger generation. We are not thankfully, in the mobility challenged/aging passengers (as seen in our recent cruises), however by 2027/9, it maybe time to look at options. Times are a changing...

The 'R'-class ships are late 1980s design.  They are comparatively expensive to run on a per-pax basis, have really-out-of-environmental-vogue propulsion, and ...have you ever showered in a non-suite cabin?  😉

 

O would have disposed of them long ago except O didn't want to be a 2-ship cruise line.

 

[Yesimapirate]

I'm excited to see the other O and industry announcements this week during the Seatrade show.

[ak1004]

Look at the positive side. Much better space to passenger ratios, pretty close to the luxury ships.

[WESTEAST]

8 minutes ago, Snaefell3 said:

The 'R'-class ships are late 1980s design.  They are comparatively expensive to run on a per-pax basis, have really-out-of-environmental-vogue propulsion, and ...have you ever showered in a non-suite cabin?  😉

 

O would have disposed of them long ago except O didn't want to be a 2-ship cruise line.

 

Yes we have sailed many times on the R class and agree the bathrooms are small but we managed just fine. My concern is that Oceania with each new build is inching up in passenger capacity and interested to see the passenger/ratio. 

[WESTEAST]

2 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

Look at the positive side. Much better space to passenger ratios, pretty close to the luxury ships.

Looks like we missed the ratio - what is it?

 

[WESTEAST]

1 minute ago, WESTEAST said:

Yes we have sailed many times on the R class and agree the bathrooms are small but we managed just fine. My concern is that Oceania with each new build is inching up in passenger capacity and interested to see the passenger/ratio. 

Caveat: the renovated R class showers are great, the old ones were tiny but still managed ok.

[ak1004]

11 minutes ago, WESTEAST said:

Looks like we missed the ratio - what is it?

 

https://www2.cruisewatch.com/top-10/ships-space-ratio/

 

Marina and Riviera are 53 (66,000 /1250) and the new ships will be 62 (86,000 / 1400). Luxury ships like Silversea and Seabourn are around 65-68.

 

[njhorseman]

1,400 passenger ships are hardly large. 

7 minutes ago, WESTEAST said:

Looks like we missed the ratio - what is it?

 

Divide the GT (which is a measure of the ship's enclosed volume, not its weight) of the new ships by their double occupancy capacity and compare that to the same calculation for Vista and Allura and you'll see that the space per passenger is higher on the new builds.

In other words, for the new ships, 86,000/1,400 = 61.43, while for Vista and Allura, 67,000/1,200 = 55.83 .

[zalusky]

I look forward to something besides Regatta sailing the Pacific. Yes I know it starting to happen but I look forward to it.

[Snaefell3]

49 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

1,400 passenger ships are hardly large. 

Divide the GT (which is a measure of the ship's enclosed volume, not its weight) of the new ships by their double occupancy capacity and compare that to the same calculation for Vista and Allura and you'll see that the space per passenger is higher on the new builds.

In other words, for the new ships, 86,000/1,400 = 61.43, while for Vista and Allura, 67,000/1,200 = 55.83 .

Yep.  But the "ratio" I'm more interested in is pax to hotel department staff.

[Vineyard View]

1400 is certainly a bump up…..1200 was as well. I guess if the ships keep filling, it is a good decision. We personally prefer under 1k pax, but that doesn’t change these decisions. Not sure we would gravitate towards that size. Who knows. We will all be older then - decision parameters may be different than they are today. 
These new builds, understandably exciting to many, does put to question, at least in my mind, where the arguments go regarding all the current cost cutting in food, services, etc - -all due to debt  post Covid that is justification. Hopefully the brand doesn’t change too much moving forward ‘due to debt post Covid’ that the value proposition changes even more by the time the new ships launch. That said, it is encouraging that significant investment is being put into Oceania with two new builds. 

[ak1004]

3 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

1400 is certainly a bump up…..1200 was as well. I guess if the ships keep filling, it is a good decision. We personally prefer under 1k pax, but that doesn’t change these decisions. Not sure we would gravitate towards that size. Who knows. We will all be older then - decision parameters may be different than they are today. 
These new builds, understandably exciting to many, does put to question, at least in my mind, where the arguments go regarding all the current cost cutting in food, services, etc - -all due to debt  post Covid that is justification. Hopefully the brand doesn’t change too much moving forward ‘due to debt post Covid’ that the value proposition changes even more by the time the new ships launch. That said, it is encouraging that significant investment is being put into Oceania with two new builds. 

 

The current trend is to build larger ships, even on luxury lines. SS moved from 400 guests to 600 and now to 728. 1,400 is a bit high for us, but the difference between 1,250 and 1,400 is not that significant. Considering that the bump is 12% but the ships will be larger by 30%, it means they should actually feel less crowded, with more public areas (maybe small gym issue on Vista will be addressed, and theater will be made larger and more functional compared to Vista).

 

Overall, when comparing Riviera with SS ships of 600 guests, personally I didn't feel huge difference. It's a matter of design.

[Vineyard View]

24 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

The current trend is to build larger ships, even on luxury lines. SS moved from 400 guests to 600 and now to 728. 1,400 is a bit high for us, but the difference between 1,250 and 1,400 is not that significant. Considering that the bump is 12% but the ships will be larger by 30%, it means they should actually feel less crowded, with more public areas (maybe small gym issue on Vista will be addressed, and theater will be made larger and more functional compared to Vista).

 

Overall, when comparing Riviera with SS ships of 600 guests, personally I didn't feel huge difference. It's a matter of 

The one thing that I would say is that the larger the ship, the larger the port required for docking…..which puts it at places/space requirements that are significantly different. The much smaller ships are able to avoid the large ports, which can be viewed as an advantage or not based on travel experience/objectives. 450/600 guests vs 1400 is a substantial difference regardless of space ratio - but again and to your point, it won’t be a big deal to some, and will to others. 

Edited April 9 by Vineyard View

[Tranquility Base]

Possible port restrictions ?

 

 'R' ships are preferred by some because of port availability over the 'O' & 'A';

eg: Saigon (Nah Rong), Bangkok (Klong Toey).

 

What ports / cruising areas are the current larger ships able to use now, but are close to their size limit ???

 

Just interested in what future port selection decisions may look like once the 'R' leave the fleet.

 

Edited April 9 by Tranquility Base

[pinotlover]

Besides the availability of certain ports, I see the larger changes being in dining? Do they make the GDR and Terrace larger yet? How about the Specialties? With 200 more passengers I’m guessing extra Specialty nights, except for top suites, will mostly disappear.

[shepherd really]

4 hours ago, pinotlover said:

Besides the availability of certain ports, I see the larger changes being in dining? Do they make the GDR and Terrace larger yet? How about the Specialties? With 200 more passengers I’m guessing extra Specialty nights, except for top suites, will mostly disappear.

Excellent question, a 15% increase in the size of the dining venues would address that.  It will be interesting to see how or if this is addressed.

[PhD-iva]

I hope they have heard the concerns about “noise pollution” and will address noise issues in the staterooms that I read about on CC. Thin walls are part of the problem, even if not the only root cause.

 

[pinotlover]

As I understand the issue as explained, the O ships cabins were stick built, meaning built out aboard ship. The new A ships, as well as most recently built ships, have their cabins built modularly, off ship, and then slid into place individually as modules. This process is highly cost efficient, but eliminates most of the sound proffing between the cabins. The only effective fix requires a massive amount of sound proffing material added to each pre constructed cabin module. This equals more construction costs. 
 

Pray for quiet neighbors.

[EJL2023]

7 hours ago, pinotlover said:

Besides the availability of certain ports, I see the larger changes being in dining? Do they make the GDR and Terrace larger yet? How about the Specialties? With 200 more passengers I’m guessing extra Specialty nights, except for top suites, will mostly disappear.

I bet they’re adding Jacques back in addition to keeping Ember!! A win-win!!😁

[Snaefell3]

8 hours ago, pinotlover said:

Besides the availability of certain ports, I see the larger changes being in dining? Do they make the GDR and Terrace larger yet? How about the Specialties? With 200 more passengers I’m guessing extra Specialty nights, except for top suites, will mostly disappear.

Were the 1400 pax squeezing into 67,817GT like Vista and Allura you'd be right.

They new ships are being built at 86,000GT.

[Snaefell3]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

As I understand the issue as explained, the O ships cabins were stick built, meaning built out aboard ship. The new A ships, as well as most recently built ships, have their cabins built modularly, off ship, and then slid into place individually as modules. This process is highly cost efficient, but eliminates most of the sound proffing between the cabins. The only effective fix requires a massive amount of sound proffing material added to each pre constructed cabin module. This equals more construction costs. 
 

Pray for quiet neighbors.

Agreed.  Right up to the "but eliminates".  Were that the case, we'd have been having sound issues with just about every ship built for any line this millennium.

[MarkWiltonM]

2 hours ago, EJL2023 said:

I bet they’re adding Jacques back in addition to keeping Ember!! A win-win!!

 

But will Jacques be renamed Giada?

[EJL2023]

18 minutes ago, MarkWiltonM said:

 

But will Jacques be renamed Giada?

Nah, that will be the new name for Toscana.