New Crystal Society Programme Announced for 2024

[ryndam]

4 minutes ago, Stickman1990 said:

Here’s a PDF version of the 2024 Crystal Society programme brochure 

 

Thank you, Terry. The "current" PDF is rife with typos and outdated references. It's obvious that it's just the old society brochure from 2019 with some, but not all, references to the pre-A&K ownership updated and edited. Appreciate the PDF version; thank you for posting it here.

 

Rob

[dowd]

I just want to know if my cruises from the original cruise line count, and if my land trips through A&K count.

 

I did notice relevant to what ryndam just mentioned that the document posted on the first page refers to one of the world's most awarded cruise lines, and the document that I downloaded refers to one of the world's most trusted cruise lines! I don't really care which it is, but I would surely be more likely to book if I can get all my old milestone credits.

[BWIVince]

3 hours ago, dowd said:

I just want to know if my cruises from the original cruise line count, and if my land trips through A&K count.

 

I did notice relevant to what ryndam just mentioned that the document posted on the first page refers to one of the world's most awarded cruise lines, and the document that I downloaded refers to one of the world's most trusted cruise lines! I don't really care which it is, but I would surely be more likely to book if I can get all my old milestone credits.

Prior sailings count towards future awards, if that’s what you’re asking?  Several people have confirmed they have credit for past sailings already, including myself.

 

Unredeemed milestone awards earned under Genting will never be redeemable, for several reasons, but I think that is perfectly understandable and doesn’t impact one’s ability to pick back up where they left off before Crystal shut down.

 

To your question about A&K, according to the materials Terry posted, it looks like they’re working on a new unified loyalty program long-term.

 

Vince

[Keith1010]

Like Vince, we have applied a new milestone to an upcoming booking. It takes into consideration the number of cruises we have taken.  However, as many of us have said since the early days of New Crystal you cannot use any unused milestones as Crystal only has a record of how many cruises you have taken but not the milestones you have used or not used.

 

I would say that each new milestone program that Crystal has rolled out since I have sailed with Crystal back in 2002 has been controversial as it eliminated/reduced milestone rewards. It used to be that with almost every cruise you got different perks.  I remember around 2007 they made major changes and it was very controversial.

 

At the time Old Crystal issues the last program update prior to this one they eliminated those complimentary cruises up to a certain number of days (I believe 12 but could be wrong) for certain milestones and in lieu of that offer a future cruise credit of x dollars based on the percentage of cruises you have take in certain categories.  For most people this change providing a future cruise credits value is less than the complimentary cruise.  

 

This new one has very few changes from the last one so IMHO is the least controversial one since we have been sailing with Crystal. I had wondered if they were going to change it up to go with days versus number of cruises taken although even when Old Crystal discussed this I never knew how the conversion could be made.  

 

The good news is we have New Crystal to sail.  Only two years ago, at this time the discussion was all about was Crystal ever coming back.  

 

On a related note, I am not sure about all airlines but the major one we use has clearly diluted it's affinity program. I can't believe the number of miles which are now needed for Business Class International Flights to and from many locations today versus what it used to be.  I realize things have changed with all of the outstanding miles out there due miles offered for credit card purchases but I was shocked most recently when I looked at how many miles we needed for a certain trip.  Oh well.

 

Keith 

[Keith1010]

This is the Crystal Society Benefits Brochure from Crystal Cruises which corrects any mistakes that were in the earlier verision.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

 

 

Crystal Society Benefits Brochure April 2024.pdf

[sullaRaffaello]

It's interesting that it says milestone redemption must be requested at the time of booking. This is a change. I used to go to the Society Hostess when I was on board to see if I was entitled to anything. If I was, she would apply it immediately. Sounds like they're hoping people forget about it in the haste of booking.

[Stickman1990]

39 minutes ago, sullaRaffaello said:

It's interesting that it says milestone redemption must be requested at the time of booking. This is a change. I used to go to the Society Hostess when I was on board to see if I was entitled to anything

I suspect they’re referring to cases where someone want to use a milestone for a category upgrade or use the credit to pay towards the fare as opposed to using a few hundred as OBC 

[Keith1010]

6 hours ago, sullaRaffaello said:

It's interesting that it says milestone redemption must be requested at the time of booking. This is a change. I used to go to the Society Hostess when I was on board to see if I was entitled to anything. If I was, she would apply it immediately. Sounds like they're hoping people forget about it in the haste of booking.

I would add to what Terry posted which the rules of the former program were not all that different. It said the request had to be submitted before final payment was made.  I also think it is referring to the upgrades as like you said an as you wish type of credit could be issues on the ship.  

 

I don't think old or new Crystal does this because they want people to forget about the program. Rather several of the milestones relate to upgrades, future cruise credit, special dinners that need to be planned prior to guests boarding, and other things and it makes sense this needs to be done before the cruise.  

 

The Society Hosts/Hostesses used to tell me that it was great that some of the TA's would let their clients know if they had milestones to use compared to those who never told their clients about the program or didn't bother to assist on this.  

 

A lesson I learned years back each time the program changed is simply use it or you may lose it. In other words if the milestones change with a new program one might have lost out on a milestone by not using it.  

 

Keith 

 

 

[ryndam]

On 4/22/2024 at 11:41 AM, Keith1010 said:

This is the Crystal Society Benefits Brochure from Crystal Cruises which corrects any mistakes that were in the earlier verision.

Cheers,

Keith

Crystal Society Benefits Brochure April 2024.pdf 5.72 MB · 52 downloads

 

Update: we have two cruises booked later this year. Final payments are due over the next few weeks. There remain inconsistencies in the milestone award descriptions in the attachment that was provided to Keith and posted here on 4/22.

 

We will achieve milestone levels on both cruises that award us with per-person "as-you-wish-credit" OR "cruise fare savings". We instructed our TA to request the "cruise fare savings" to our final invoices applicable to the two cruises that we will achieve corresponding our milestone award levels. 

 

Our TA and her consortium had a lengthy conference call with the appropriate decision-makers at NC this morning. Our TA was informed, and this is a more-or-less accurate transcript of the call, that "at this time, Crystal can only offer the noted milestone as-you-wish-credit as onboard credits and cannot apply these milestone benefits as cruise fare savings." Our TA was informed that a subsequent Crystal Society Benefits brochure will be distributed that clarifies this "apparent confusing milestone benefit description".

 

The onboard, milestone as-you-wish-credits cannot be redeemed for cash nor can be refunded/transferred to another future cruise once applied, even if the total amount is not utilized on the sailing to which it is applied.

 

We would have preferred our accrued milestone awards be deducted as cruise fare savings, but that does not appear to be an option at this time. We have accepted the onboard as-you-wish-credits.

 

Rob

[BWIVince]

1 hour ago, ryndam said:

 

Update: we have two cruises booked later this year. Final payments are due over the next few weeks. There remain inconsistencies in the milestone award descriptions in the attachment that was provided to Keith and posted here on 4/22.

 

We will achieve milestone levels on both cruises that award us with per-person "as-you-wish-credit" OR "cruise fare savings". We instructed our TA to request the "cruise fare savings" to our final invoices applicable to the two cruises that we will achieve corresponding our milestone award levels. 

 

Our TA and her consortium had a lengthy conference call with the appropriate decision-makers at NC this morning. Our TA was informed, and this is a more-or-less accurate transcript of the call, that "at this time, Crystal can only offer the noted milestone as-you-wish-credit as onboard credits and cannot apply these milestone benefits as cruise fare savings." Our TA was informed that a subsequent Crystal Society Benefits brochure will be distributed that clarifies this "apparent confusing milestone benefit description".

 

The onboard, milestone as-you-wish-credits cannot be redeemed for cash nor can be refunded/transferred to another future cruise once applied, even if the total amount is not utilized on the sailing to which it is applied.

 

We would have preferred our accrued milestone awards be deducted as cruise fare savings, but that does not appear to be an option at this time. We have accepted the onboard as-you-wish-credits.

 

Rob

 

What a bizarre backpedal...  It repeatedly says "As you wish credit OR Cruise fare savings" over and over again all over the doc -- that intent couldn't be clearer.  This is pure speculation, but it feels like they got pushback on the fare savings option from external stakeholders (I can think of some potential cases) and need to scratch the prior plan.

 

Vince

Edited April 25 by BWIVince

[ryndam]

8 minutes ago, BWIVince said:

 

What a bizarre backpedal...  It repeatedly says "As you wish credit OR Cruise fare savings" over and over again all over the doc -- that intent couldn't be clearer.  This is pure speculation, but it feels like they got pushback on the fare savings option from external stakeholders (I can think of some potential cases) and need to scratch the prior plan.

 

Vince

And the operative words here, and in the past, have always been “subject to change at our discretion”, or some such legalese. Sloppy proofreading and/or marketing not vetting this appropriately.

 

Rob

[BWIVince]

8 minutes ago, ryndam said:

And the operative words here, and in the past, have always been “subject to change at our discretion”, or some such legalese. Sloppy proofreading and/or marketing not vetting this appropriately.

 

Rob

 

This feels way beyond proofreading and vetting, especially since the intent of the program was so clear.  Usually when I see a reversal this abrupt, it's because of an uproar -- which in fairness can come in contrast to vetting because different non-company stakeholders have different opinions and can view the consequences differently.  Many times the external stakeholders don't realize the consequences until they start to see the process in motion.

 

Vince

[ryndam]

Our TA continues to pursue further clarification. But it was “Crystal clear” this afternoon. No fare reduction. Onboard credits only.

 

If anyone reading this thread has a different experience when achieving a designated milestone level, please post here to share your experience if it differs from ours.

 

Rob

[May B]

Rob, if you chose not to take the OBC, could the fare reduction be applied to a FUTURE cruise?

[ryndam]

3 hours ago, May B said:

Rob, if you chose not to take the OBC, could the fare reduction be applied to a FUTURE cruise?

Apparently not. There was no way the Crystal personnel were going to apply a milestone award to any type of cruise fare reduction. Onboard credit only. 

[skybluewaters]

23 hours ago, BWIVince said:

it feels like they got pushback on the fare savings option from external stakeholders

 

What are some examples of external stakeholders in this situation? 

[May B]

14 hours ago, ryndam said:

Apparently not. There was no way the Crystal personnel were going to apply a milestone award to any type of cruise fare reduction. Onboard credit only. 

Frustrating! 

[ryndam]

2 minutes ago, May B said:

Frustrating! 

Yes it is. The issue has been escalated to additional decision-makers at Crystal. I will update my post here once either I or our TA receive any further clarification.

 

Rob

[BWIVince]

18 minutes ago, skybluewaters said:

 

What are some examples of external stakeholders in this situation? 

 

This is just an example, but travel agents would be that type of external stakeholder.  Not saying this is the case, but here's a type of scenario that comes to mind from my experience when I see a sharp reversal like this.

 

Background:  Once upon a time in the history of loyalty programs, you could use alternative payment methods to account for award credits, and whatever you "earned" could be basically paid for by a credit or internal transfer that didn't change the price of the product or service being sold.  Not that every program worked this way, but it was an option.

 

Modern accounting practices have changed how this works in recent years.  Now you'll notice almost universally that earned benefits in a loyalty program reduce the actual selling price of the product or service, pre-tax and pre-commission.  Target Circle is an example of this -- gift cards you earn through Target Circle are a payment type and pay for everything post-tax, but applied Target Circle Earnings actually reduce the price of whatever you're buying pre-tax.

 

The same thing goes for cruise fares.  AYW credits wouldn't change an agent's commission, but cruise fare savings would, at least in 2024 accounting terms.  That's not to say a line couldn't then come behind and manually cut some kind of alternate non-commission compensation to try to make up for the shortfall, but that would have other tax implications and be highly unwieldy because it would have to be separate from the commission structure.

 

Not saying this is the case, but this is the type of scenario I was mentioning.  Here I could see consortiums or agent groups pushing back on getting paid less for the same work on the award booking, and Crystal just throwing in the towel on the cruise fare credit as a remedy.  

 

Obviously I defer to anyone that has any behind the scenes knowledge of the case here.

 

Vince 

[Noggins]

9 hours ago, BWIVince said:

Not saying this is the case, but this is the type of scenario I was mentioning.  Here I could see consortiums or agent groups pushing back on getting paid less for the same work on the award booking, and Crystal just throwing in the towel on the cruise fare credit as a remedy.  

I suppose I sort of knew it but reading the other day that Explora apparently pays 20% commission still made my eyes water. And at that level significant losses for  TA's could arise if Crystal applied the awards to the commissionable fare.

But what do we think about our TA's earning 20%? (and I assume Crystal pays similarly). The only way to test this, in my opinion, is to consider how I would feel if I had the choice of a net price from the cruise line (keeping the maths* simple, a fare 20% cheaper) and then how I would  feel when my TA invoiced me for around 20% of my cruise cost. That could be quite a chunky invoice. And suppose I had 2/3/4 + of those invoices every year. Would I value my TA's input that much? Would their input justify those fees on a routine basis? Would I always / sometimes choose to simply book direct and take the chunky saving?

I can think of other (financial  product) markets in the UK where there has been a maturing from products being purely commission based to being net priced with 'agents' charging fees for their services.

 

* yes, mathematics is, in English, a plural so that 's' on the end is essential!

 

Adrian 

 

 

[Stickman1990]

1 hour ago, Noggins said:

But what do we think about our TA's earning 20%? (and I assume Crystal pays similarly).

I feel fine with it - as many of us benefit from rebates of part of that commission. I think the UK may be a bit different as you have some interesting consumer protection laws that need to be considered against the costs of doing business

 

I also believe TAs need to earn a living and receive fair compensation for the value they add. I also believe a TA offers a wider range of services and options than just booking a cruise - a good one can save you dollars, time and heartache in other ways with access to deals and rates than say the cruise line or booking directly might do. They can and do go into bat for you when things go wrong 

 

The reality is when one books directly with Crystal you don’t receive any rebate so the margin from that booking is considerably higher to the cruise line

[BWIVince]

2 hours ago, Noggins said:

I suppose I sort of knew it but reading the other day that Explora apparently pays 20% commission still made my eyes water. And at that level significant losses for  TA's could arise if Crystal applied the awards to the commissionable fare.

But what do we think about our TA's earning 20%? (and I assume Crystal pays similarly). The only way to test this, in my opinion, is to consider how I would feel if I had the choice of a net price from the cruise line (keeping the maths* simple, a fare 20% cheaper) and then how I would  feel when my TA invoiced me for around 20% of my cruise cost. That could be quite a chunky invoice. And suppose I had 2/3/4 + of those invoices every year. Would I value my TA's input that much? Would their input justify those fees on a routine basis? Would I always / sometimes choose to simply book direct and take the chunky saving?

I can think of other (financial  product) markets in the UK where there has been a maturing from products being purely commission based to being net priced with 'agents' charging fees for their services.

 

* yes, mathematics is, in English, a plural so that 's' on the end is essential!

 

Adrian 

 

 

The challenge with commissions is that someone has to do the work and get paid for it.  At least in the US travel industry, it’s never been a choice of commission-funded travel agents or book direct and save the commission.  
 

No matter what anyone claims, in direct booking scenarios, the supplier just takes on the labor of managing the booking, and funds that in lieu of paying an agent for that support….  And for the most part, what the customer gets in lieu of a professional agent when they book direct, is a minimum wage, high turnover (or worse, outsourced) call center that gives them a lower level of (often incorrect or frustrating) care for pretty much the same price.  Suppliers may advertise direct booking savings or price match guarantees, but their contracts with their preferred partners guarantee price parity, so most booking channels end up with the same prices anyway (and better service).

 

I can’t comment on Explora’s commission rates because I don’t know how that’s constructed, but I will say that a 20% base commission would be problematic at best because of how commissions are tiered.  Normally, commissions come in two flavors — base commissions and overrides.  Base commissions are the same for every agency everywhere, and is customarily around 10% for most suppliers (though some companies have chipped away at that, with varying results).  Overrides are paid on top of commissions and vary by agency — these are considerations for things like sales volume, or membership in a buying consortium.  So if I was an agency that was a member of XYZ Consortium, I might get a commission of 10% on a booking, plus an override of 4%.  In rare cases, a supplier may also offer a promotion, which would be a third type of compensation — sometimes non-cash — on top of both the override and commission, to really help sell.

 

So if 20% is the total amount after overrides and promotions, that would be generous but not unheard of…. But if the 20% is just the commission, that’s a different story.  
 

I’ll add one more comment, because things are slightly different for new cruise lines starting out.  Most overrides and preferred supplier agreements are based on 2-5 year sales data.  New travel suppliers don’t have that with anyone, so overrides become more of a sore point than a go-to, causing new companies to temporarily turn more to slightly bigger base commissions or bigger promotions until they can get long-term consortium or preferred supplier agreements in place, which takes a few years.  That may also explain part of the 20% amount, but still sort of leaves open how it’s arrived at.

 

Vince

[Whipsnade]

Invert happy with the services provided by my TA. I feel I get good value for the money. And i do watch my pennies. 

[Noggins]

7 hours ago, BWIVince said:

The challenge with commissions is that someone has to do the work and get paid for it.  At least in the US travel industry, it’s never been a choice of commission-funded travel agents or book direct and save the commission.  
 

No matter what anyone claims, in direct booking scenarios, the supplier just takes on the labor of managing the booking, and funds that in lieu of paying an agent for that support….  And for the most part, what the customer gets in lieu of a professional agent when they book direct, is a minimum wage, high turnover (or worse, outsourced) call center that gives them a lower level of (often incorrect or frustrating) care for pretty much the same price.  Suppliers may advertise direct booking savings or price match guarantees, but their contracts with their preferred partners guarantee price parity, so most booking channels end up with the same prices anyway (and better service).

 

I can’t comment on Explora’s commission rates because I don’t know how that’s constructed, but I will say that a 20% base commission would be problematic at best because of how commissions are tiered.  Normally, commissions come in two flavors — base commissions and overrides.  Base commissions are the same for every agency everywhere, and is customarily around 10% for most suppliers (though some companies have chipped away at that, with varying results).  Overrides are paid on top of commissions and vary by agency — these are considerations for things like sales volume, or membership in a buying consortium.  So if I was an agency that was a member of XYZ Consortium, I might get a commission of 10% on a booking, plus an override of 4%.  In rare cases, a supplier may also offer a promotion, which would be a third type of compensation — sometimes non-cash — on top of both the override and commission, to really help sell.

 

So if 20% is the total amount after overrides and promotions, that would be generous but not unheard of…. But if the 20% is just the commission, that’s a different story.  
 

I’ll add one more comment, because things are slightly different for new cruise lines starting out.  Most overrides and preferred supplier agreements are based on 2-5 year sales data.  New travel suppliers don’t have that with anyone, so overrides become more of a sore point than a go-to, causing new companies to temporarily turn more to slightly bigger base commissions or bigger promotions until they can get long-term consortium or preferred supplier agreements in place, which takes a few years.  That may also explain part of the 20% amount, but still sort of leaves open how it’s arrived at.

 

Vince

Thanks Vince, inciteful as ever and with additional layers of knowledge helpfully shared.

Adrian 

[Whipsnade]

I don’t see what the choice is. Book with a knowledgeable, helpful, well connected TA or direct with cruise line and get very limited help by staff definitely not on your side. Price the same either way.