Dumbing Down & Dressing Down: The New Cunard?

[Victoria2]

15 minutes ago, missson1967 said:

Yes, we've seen the various threads about dress code over the years, but again, had not viewed anything as offensive within those comments (removed or otherwise), so there's yet another example of how it all comes down to perception!

Not even the comments [before removal] on the photos of hot and tired passengers ready to embark being likened to customers of a well known US sort of discount store? Goodness me. I am very surprised.

 

Just shows how the same world can be viewed from different perspectives.

Edited Friday at 10:13 AM by Victoria2

[missson1967]

1 minute ago, exlondoner said:

Don’t you think the metaphor dumbing down is inherently condescending to those who have the tastes/views it applies to? I wouldn’t ever ask for it to be removed, but I don’t think it suggests that those who hold the views are held in high regard.

No, we don't consider the phrase "dumbing down" to be "condescending" (but we are not easily offended) & we would doubt it was intended to be interpreted in that manner by those who have used it (it certainly wasn't intended as such when we repeated it at #39 above).  It is, however, beyond doubt that the dress code has diminished in recent years; some will appreciate that, others won't (& we fall into that latter category)!   

[missson1967]

9 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

Not even the comments [before removal] on the photos of hot and tired passengers ready to embark being likened to customers of a well known US sort of discount store? Goodness me. I am very surprised.

Our observations regarding the reduction in standards were directed to the evening dress code, not embarkation (but even then, we didn't find anything offensive!).

[Victoria2]

10 minutes ago, missson1967 said:

Our observations regarding the reduction in standards were directed to the evening dress code, not embarkation (but even then, we didn't find anything offensive!).

That is a very fair comment and I respect that and agree the evening dress code has certainly changed and I would have been very happy to keep the standards of when we first started travelling with Cunard but, your added comment in brackets  referring to my bringing up the nasty comments when the hot and tired passengers embarking were said to be looking like customers of a perceived downmarket supermarket bears out the fact I am still astonished at the fact that's not offensive.

Edited Friday at 10:37 AM by Victoria2

[Windsurfboy]

Personally I'd be very happy with formal every night except first and last But that's not going to happen. 

 

However, I like the relaxation of smart casual as long as you are smart then it makes gala more different and special. 

 

I would baulk at going back to jacket and tie ,  if one has to do this then let's have a Tux every night.  But again Cunard will  not introduce jackets again so it's an academic discussion. 

[S1971]

Does anyone have any credible knowledge as to why Cunard appear to be gradually relaxing dress codes and formal nights.

 

I am of the opinion that this is them trying to modernise, but that's only based on personal opinion.

 

Is it possibly a result of customer feed back?

 

Are they attempting to get younger age groups?

 

Is it something else?

[exlondoner]

9 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

Personally I'd be very happy with formal every night except first and last But that's not going to happen. 

 

However, I like the relaxation of smart casual as long as you are smart then it makes gala more different and special. 

 

I would baulk at going back to jacket and tie ,  if one has to do this then let's have a Tux every night.  But again Cunard will  not introduce jackets again so it's an academic discussion. 

They won’t reintroduce jackets openly, but there are times when I think the air con is a ploy to do it surreptitiously. 😀

[Victoria2]

16 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

They won’t reintroduce jackets openly, but there are times when I think the air con is a ploy to do it surreptitiously. 😀

and when it's hot, the chairs can wear jackets now with no metaphorical eyebrows raised! 🙂

[DaisyUK]

It's obviously an emotive subject. 

We're relative newcomers to Cunard, having previously cruised mainly with Regent and Crystal. We've now added Cunard to our list and have enjoyed QM2, QV and QE, with further cruises booked on all 3 lines.

In my opinion, Regent and Crystal are similar in their offerings. Yes, there are differences (especially in relation to the age of the ships) but in terms of size, standard of service, passenger to crew ratio, specialty dining, all-inclusiveness (to a greater or lesser degree) and room/suite choices we will go with either one dependent upon itinerary and availability and thoroughly enjoy both lines.

What Cunard offers is different and it is that difference which appeals to us. Specifically, the opportunity to dress up for dinner each evening, have the luxury of 'our' table in the restaurant with the same people looking after us and knowing our likes/dislikes, being able to decide for ourselves whether we'd like the table for an entire leisurely evening or speed things up if we need to get to a show, having the luxury of being able to order off menu if we feel like it. 

I accept that what appeals to us does not appeal to everyone, but I fear that if Cunard becomes like all the other cruise lines, by relaxing the dress code, having multiple specialty restaurants which need to serve passengers quickly in order to maximise revenue etc, etc then it will lose that unique quality which attracts their current clientele.

[Megabear2]

56 minutes ago, S1971 said:

Does anyone have any credible knowledge as to why Cunard appear to be gradually relaxing dress codes and formal nights.

 

I am of the opinion that this is them trying to modernise, but that's only based on personal opinion.

 

Is it possibly a result of customer feed back?

 

Are they attempting to get younger age groups?

 

Is it something else?

In recent months I've had a fair number of questionnaires regarding dress code both from Cunard and P&O - for the latter a very comprehensive one just this week.  These all ask about perception of the dress codes, ie what do you take them to mean/describe.

 

I take this interest to mean the senior management are looking at feedback to see if changes can/ought to be considered/made.  

[DukeBeetle24]

16 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

In recent months I've had a fair number of questionnaires regarding dress code both from Cunard and P&O - for the latter a very comprehensive one just this week.  These all ask about perception of the dress codes, ie what do you take them to mean/describe.

 

I take this interest to mean the senior management are looking at feedback to see if changes can/ought to be considered/made.  

I wonder if it's whether to revise Cunard "upward" and make it clearer (similar to Silversea) and make P&O more relaxed. It serves no purpose having both brands on a similar dress code.

[ExArkie]

I have made the suggestion before, but if the QM2 crossings are to be marketed as harkening back to the “golden age” of transatlantic travel, they should maintain some formality in the dress code. I’d suggest three formal nights per crossing.
 

Other voyages on Cunard are marketed in the same way most other cruise lines do theirs, so Cunard is going to have to be competitive. If relaxing the dress code helps with that, I would not object to fewer formal nights on (for example) Caribbean cruises. 
 

However, I do believe that QM2 crossings are different and can/should be handled differently than port intensive cruises. After all, Cunard has no direct competition for regular and frequent transatlantics, so they can set the standard. 

[alc13]

I keep expecting that dressing up will make a comeback.  As so many others have pointed out, dressing nicely for dinner makes the event an occasion, whether at the level of casual dress/jacket to full-on evening dress/tuxedo.  Personally, I could live with fewer formal nights if more people embraced the concept of dressing for dinner.

 

Ed to add that I agree with @ExArkie about the difference between QM2 and the other ships.  Losing formal nights on QM2 would be very sad.

Edited Friday at 01:33 PM by alc13

[3rdGenCunarder]

8 hours ago, Mareblu said:

I also understand the "live and let live" philosophy, but here we disagree.  I am of the firm conviction that what one wears in the evening sets the tone for the evening.  I've often found it interesting to note that once a few couples dress elegantly, on any line we've sailed with, the next evening sees many more following suit.  Sometimes, on non-Cunard lines, it's simply a matter of simple attire with elegant jewellery added, and the diamonds don't need to be authentic, just adding an elegant lifting of the attire. 

 

Yes, "sets the tone" is a good way to say it. I agree that a second gala night often sees more people dressed up than on the first. Although the dress code is not the same as on Cunard, I've seen people make more of an effort on the second gala night on HAL, too. 

 

As for luggage, I think a lot of women who worry about packing formal wear are imagining they need to take ballgowns (think Cinderella). I have seen some gorgeous full-skirted ballgowns on cruises, and my first thought is always how in earth did she pack that! But that is not required. If you shop around, there's a lot of formal wear that's easy to pack, like the items you described.

Edited Friday at 01:35 PM by 3rdGenCunarder

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

In recent months I've had a fair number of questionnaires regarding dress code both from Cunard and P&O - for the latter a very comprehensive one just this week.  These all ask about perception of the dress codes, ie what do you take them to mean/describe.

 

I take this interest to mean the senior management are looking at feedback to see if changes can/ought to be considered/made.  

 

Cunard's questionnaires contain direct questions about dressing up and some odd ones along with that. In an agree/disagree section, there's always one like "I enjoy dressing up to give the evening a sense of occasion." Okay, that one is easy. But it's often followed by "I would feel at home at the opera." WHAT does that mean and what do they infer from my "agree" answer? I like opera. Does that mean I like to dress up, on the assumption that going to the opera requires formal dress? (Neither the Royal Opera House nor the Met has a dress code that I've ever seen.) The questions can be slanted in a way that give the company the "data" it wants to get so they can justify a decision they're already leaning toward. 

 

[exlondoner]

11 minutes ago, alc13 said:

I keep expecting that dressing up will make a comeback.  As so many others have pointed out, dressing nicely for dinner makes the event an occasion, whether at the level of casual dress/jacket to full-on evening dress/tuxedo.  Personally, I could live with fewer formal nights if more people embraced the concept of dressing for dinner.

 

Ed to add that I agree with @ExArkie about the difference between QM2 and the other ships.  Losing formal nights on QM2 would be very sad.

If you think dressing up is going out of fashion, you should have seen Waterloo Station on Saturday. It was as crowded as I have seen it, largely with people dressed very glamorously on their way to the Royal Ascot race meeting. Very few of them can actually have been in the Royal Enclosure, the only place where such dress is compulsory.

[exlondoner]

1 minute ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Cunard's questionnaires contain direct questions about dressing up and some odd ones along with that. In an agree/disagree section, there's always one like "I enjoy dressing up to give the evening a sense of occasion." Okay, that one is easy. But it's often followed by "I would feel at home at the opera." WHAT does that mean and what do they infer from my "agree" answer? I like opera. Does that mean I like to dress up, on the assumption that going to the opera requires formal dress? (Neither the Royal Opera House nor the Met has a dress code that I've ever seen.) The questions can be slanted in a way that give the company the "data" it wants to get so they can justify a decision they're already leaning toward. 

 

The ROH certainly doesn’t, though I did once see a chap in a dinner jacket, an unwise choice on a very hot day.

[Victoria2]

1 minute ago, exlondoner said:

The ROH certainly doesn’t, though I did once see a chap in a dinner jacket, an unwise choice on a very hot day.

Did his chair wear the jacket?? 😄

[exlondoner]

5 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

Did his chair wear the jacket?? 😄

No, he sat there stewing. It is quite difficult to undress mid-act.

[alc13]

8 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

If you think dressing up is going out of fashion, you should have seen Waterloo Station on Saturday. It was as crowded as I have seen it, largely with people dressed very glamorously on their way to the Royal Ascot race meeting. Very few of them can actually have been in the Royal Enclosure, the only place where such dress is compulsory.

That's a good example of the resurgence of interest in dressing up nowadays.  Young people. of course.

[david63]

1 hour ago, DukeBeetle24 said:

I wonder if it's whether to revise Cunard "upward"

Unlikely as the trend throughout the cruise industry is "downward" which is being led by the American market where there are many Americans who refuse to "dress up".

1 hour ago, DukeBeetle24 said:

similar to Silversea

Last time I looked Silversea were revising their dress code downwards.

1 hour ago, DukeBeetle24 said:

and make P&O more relaxed

P&O has been more relaxed for some years now, particularly on the newer big ships.

[exlondoner]

2 minutes ago, david63 said:

Unlikely as the trend throughout the cruise industry is "downward" which is being led by the American market where there are many Americans who refuse to "dress up".

 

The ones I see on Cunard mainly seem to relish it, so there is something for everyone. And, while there are US passengers on most voyages, it is only TAs on QM2 where there are a lot.

[exlondoner]

7 minutes ago, alc13 said:

That's a good example of the resurgence of interest in dressing up nowadays.  Young people. of course.

Young people indeed.

[Bell Boy]

2 hours ago, S1971 said:

Does anyone have any credible knowledge as to why Cunard appear to be gradually relaxing dress codes and formal nights.

 

I am of the opinion that this is them trying to modernise, but that's only based on personal opinion.

 

Is it possibly a result of customer feed back?

 

Are they attempting to get younger age groups?

 

Is it something else?

The Cynic in me thinks that maybe the Ships 'uniformed officers' might have had a hand in this.

It's probably a bit of a hassle for them having to change in their formal officer Mess uniform after 6pm  I'm not too sure if this is still mandatory if they have to walk through the public areas in view of the guest.  

 

I'm quite surprised in the reduction of these formal evenings, it appears at Cunard shoreside  the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing as for some time now the logic of these World Club & Senior officers receptions now being a 'Smart Attire affair' ( or a midday event)  is that 'Formal Evenings' tend to attract more folk out and about to experience the Bars, purchasing fancy cocktails etc etc  (invitations to cocktail receptions often reduce the number visiting the Bar Venues) - in other words  Revenue .😉    

[Judyrem]

I am a widow traveling with my best friend who is also a widow. I don't mind dressing UP, but it feels strange for two women dressed to impress IMVHO

 

I have very fashionable "dressy casual" clothes BTW.

 

I haven't been in formal dress since my husband died.